It has been an interesting week, many rumors and lies have been spread on some "other" private boards.. Please know that to spread unsubtanciated rumors for your own gain shows a lack of integrity.  The truth always comes to the top.  

But seriously gentlemen you must guard your freedom of choice, whether it is to post on a public format, to choose a companion of your choice.  Do not give in to the providers that say "they are watching over your safety."  The reality is they are trying to control the market.  Control your wallet, control who you can see and who will in turn will give a kick back to them.  Nice scheme if you can scare all the other providers into believing that they are being taken care of ... that they are SAFE from the big ugly reality of life.  Now they have someone in there corner for a "PRICE".  I think this is called Pimping.. but what do I know.. lol... I guess if you wear a skirt it isn't so bad, right?.  Ladies remember to be truely independant is to chart your own course.. see who you want and the gentlemen shouldn't be scared into a small little group.. the circle the wagons,, aahhh now you are safe, but safe from what?  From yourselves?  ha ha  

Again and again I hear the rumors of trouble.. all unsubstantiated.  Or some of the truth but twisted to appear worse than it is.  Threats against girls by other providers is showing up.   Actually the public format is the best... it is the liveliest.  The trouble with the secret little groups is that lies get spread and believed with no contradiction.  No one is there to voice an opposing voice.  

This is just my opinion about freedom of speech, but I truely enjoy being able to say what I wish and where.  I don't need a provider to CARE for me, get me business, keep me safe ... or earn money off my own work.  Sometimes you don't realise where someone is taking you when it starts slowly. But be assured that is isn't out of the goodness of heart it is finacial gain at the end. As one gentleman once told me "I don't want to be treated like a walking wallet."  So public and open formats help keep things on a even keel.  Private groups are good as long as they have integrity, have honest dialog, do not use the format to hurt others in the industry.

Reon't be fooled into losing your freedom of choice

What sort of "loss of choice" are you referring to?

I use the message boards regularly, for discerning who may be of interest when I visit an area.  I also belong to a couple of screening services, both for my protection and the providers.  My personal information isn't maintained after verification (I've been assured), so where is the loss of choice there?

Please clarify what you're referring to.  I only see independents, been through the agency wringer once too many times.

-- Modified on 6/3/2002 3:21:32 PM

I agree with you Nora.  I do however value the decency each provider offers by allowing references.  Nothing is perfect, just striving to make things as amenable as they can be.

Hugs
Me

Reon't be fooled into losing your freedom of choice

Don Vogel could not have said it better you must still be in contact.

Reon't be fooled into losing your freedom of choice

I agree, true capitalism comes with honesty and integrity. False rumors, lies, and alternative motives should stay where they belong, politics.

Reon't be fooled is right

I could not agree with you more Erica and Nora.  Allowing certain providers to run the industry would ruin it!!  Once again always wolves amongst the sheep.  Yikes. Its still saddens me that some cant allow the playground to be a fun and free enterprise.  But like we all know the truth will set you free!! Madison

well that's becasue she was trying to out something that is in the works that is a very bad thing...in hopes of when this thing comes  out that people will know what it is really about.
Some of you may even never know what nora is talking about and that is the hope.
Someone is trying to felonize the industry and pimp you and the the independents under the cool banner of well....it will be perfectly secure.
Well NOTHING is ever secure forever.  And the price men and women will have to pay both out of pocket and in privacy will will far out way any temporary advantage that  this "thing"  may  provide.  Its too bad that a persons motive in the name of good is so corupt.  Thanks for speaking up I respect you for that!  Thank goodness there are other ethical honest providers that exist in my neck of the woods

while I can agree with you about the fact that most of us do not
understand what Nora is talking about. I think most of us can
read into her statment a small bit, and without coming off as
a wise guy I was wondering if any of you gals would care to further enlighten us others who are in the dark about what is
indeed going on?

I'm with trooper. Though I understand what you are saying, I have no clue what your talking about.
If it is as you say, I would like to know more about the issue so nothing I do unknowingly makes the situation worse.

i agree with rustywreck. our decisions as clients seeking a provider could affect there and our lives forever. it would be nice to know everthing to keep the boat from sinking. you all know there mite not be enough life jackets for evryone.

Okay.. since I can't name names and I want to protect the innocent.. just know that I am sure since my posting people will be more careful in spreading rumors and lies to hurt providers.. my post hit home to the few that it was meant for.

As for the rest I am hoping that my warning about organizations that want kickbacks and percentages never come into fruition. No one should profit off another. I hope this helps the providers and clients to keep supporting free and open formats.  Around the country I have it on good authority the practice of kickbacks and organizing ladies and gentlemen are continuing to come under attack of the RICO laws.

Reefined Freedom of choice

It's to bad we have some people who will shake your hand with one hand and stab you in the back with the other!!  speading lies and rumors about people just so they look better, There's some classy ladies {nora& tuzdae & others on this board] and some are not{______}, they know who they are, When it come to money some people don't care who they step to get it!!  That's sad!!  Keith

Reefined Freedom of choice

thanks Nora now that I am a bit more informed about the subject
I think that I can better state my opinion on this matter,
I do agree with your comment about free enterprise, I an very
inclined to state and agree with the previous writer that
its a shame and a sham that the good providers should have to
suffer from the greed of some other less than decent providers,
and do beleive me that those people know who they are and they
also know that what they are doing is less than honest. I am glad
to be a part of this forum and I will always weight in on the
side of people who are honest and upfront and as I can state from past contact with certain providers, the people who put there money where there mouth is. thanks to you gals like Nora
and Madison, to name a few there is a better element in this
sometimes shady biz. and as for us hobbiest's we should always
support that good group of providers! thanks,  trooper

I am sorry, but I am really shocked that you would still be on any public forum.  Are you truley concerned about everyone safety??  If we were all on a private forum, the risk on LE reading anything that we post would no longer be an issue.  I TOTALLY disagree with you all who think that a private forum is not a good thing... If you think hard about it, and I know that can be hard for some of you, everything amd everything that is not available to the general public is usually a better class of people.  TJ

I must reply to this due to the fact the if you would have only seen verified men is a private forum, you would not ever have to take any rick with LE..  Wouldn't that be worth it to you????

Since I truley have nothing to lose with the ladies of this forum, I will let you know that it is nothing more than a bunch of crap.  Fear controls so many people and it always shows when someone is afraid..  Don't worry about it, guys.  Trust me on that one, I have not steered you wrong before...   TJ

Reefined Freedom of choice

Let me ask one question to you Nora.  How would you pay for setting up of a private group your self?  I mean, the guys all kicked back a fee for a private party we had right?  That covered expenses right???  A "kick back"  you really have no idea about how much things cost, right??  You talk about starting and spreading rumors, right???  Well then explain why you started this post...  You are making a hill out of nothing but good, you are just to scared to see it....   TJ

Reefined Freedom of choice

Trooper,
I am very sorry to have to say this, however you do not know about what we are taking about.  If you did know, you could then make an informed decision....   TJ

TJ, I really hate to disagree with you of all people.  I don't see anyway that you can create a truly private forum.  

You can create a forum that includes only specific people and know that those are most likely the only people who have access, but then you get into a whole mess of who can and cannot have access, especially if you open it up to enough people to make it beneficial.  Since you can never know who really has access to the group then you still have an issue and need to guard your conversation just as much as on a public forum such as this.

IMHO, from a board standpoint, I think we're better off with everyone staying here and just being cautious about what's said.  I think that as long as everyone behaves and keeps a low profile nobody will bother with us.  (Though I do agree that the private forums have generally been a better class of citizen.)

I think the same goes for any type of 'safe verification' system that anyone thinks they might be able to develop (though I haven't heard any details).

I could be wrong, but that's my take.  I spent several years in corporate IT security systems so I do have some experience with this.  The best security is to not need security and that starts with our mouths (or fingers and actions.

Launce

Reon't be fooled into losing your freedom of choice

Hmmmm...Not that this is really any of my business since Im retired now, but I dont get it. Whats the big deal? Isnt that the reason that most people are in this business...to make a profit? Yes, it is a great business to be in and you do meet alot of wonderful people, but if I never made any money, I wouldnt have done it. I dont think anyone would. TER, TBD, EROS, Room Service etc etc...They all make money from this business, why can't someone else? I dont see the harm in it.

Of course - its all about the money.  Its always about the money.  I have never seen anyone that saw me because they felt sorry for me and wanted to help me relieve my "anxieties" for free.....  So somebody is already making my money....

I'm not close to any of this, but it does appear that there is more to it than just implementing a "business model" - rather it seems there is some bad blood being exchanged based on hurting other people's business that aren;t seeing the value or were excluded from said "business model"....  Not that we haven't seen bad blood being exchanged in this local scene before....

From the initial post, it appears the challenge was in proving the value...

From my standpoint, it seems silly for me to think that I wouldn;t be able to see someone because I wasn;t part of an organization.  Tend to think many others would feel the same way.  Think this might work better if this were to accommodate travelers from other locations and the service provided background checks - but then the promotion of this service should be in the source locations.

Considering this is all so cryptic, I may be way off...  if so - hey - its not the first - nor probably the last time that will happen.

sl

Reefined Freedom of choice

I agree with TJ.  If you don't want to pay to be part of a more private group, then don't.  Isn't free enterprise what this is all about?  And, does anyone really think it would be possible for someone to control the market?  I have watched the participants in this hobby for a couple of years, have never seen a large group agree on anything and have observed more cliques and bickering than in junior high.  Control the market? Get real!

-- Modified on 6/4/2002 4:46:43 PM

Reon't be fooled into losing your freedom of choice

I beg your pardon.  I have never made or even attemted to make a dime in this business and I have no short term plans to even try.

Serving ladies and gentlemen, I am

Noah of Minnesota

Reefined Freedom of choice

I agree with salesman.  I seem to almost always agree with Salesman's pragmatic and cogent thought process.  Certainly he is one of those rare individual's who is a master of the obvious.

Serving ladies and gentlemen, I am


Noah of Minnesota

I knew it was our fair Noah all along *giggle*.  Are you trying to build the arc again?  It's been misty all week, I sure could use a cute umbrella.

Seriously folks.  Who's being discluded?  I'm a bit slow at times, what exactly is this about again?

Ooops, no sense to be found.  Must be rumor upon rumor with no fair dialogue to be found.  

I take it public posts with implications of rumors is nothing more than another rumor.  But then again, it's easy to accuse publicly rather than discuss privately.

(but correct me if I am wrong)

As I understand it, the proposal is to create a private, for-profit forum, consisting solely of Ladies and Gents who have been referred by Gents or Ladies they have seen.

This would create a forum where security and "quality" were more certain than they are in the world at large. Neither would be perfect, and neither would be guaranteed, but the objective would be to at least make a significant improvement over the public forums available now.

No one's freedom of choice would be restricted, as I see it. I could join, or not join. I could see Ladies in the Group even if I wasn't in it, as long as I could convince them that I was a righteous dude and not a cop, ax-murderer, walking advertisement for Arid Extra Dry, or other undesirable type. If I was in the Group, I could see Ladies who weren't. Similar freedoms would apply to the Ladies, seeing only those they were comfortable with, whether they were in the Group or not.

Like any business, it would succeed or fail based on whether its customers perceived it to be a good value for the money. I see nothing sinister in that. Perhaps some people would be intentionally excluded, and I can see where that would upset the, but "we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone" works here, as elsewhere.

(but I'd stay away from: "No Shirt, No Shoes, No Service!" ... I LIKE the "No Shirt" policy

If this business venture goes forward, Ladies and Gents will make their own choices, and they can reverse those whenever they want, as far as I can tell. Personally, I don't much care for these pay sites, but I do pay to belong to TER, and I will belong to this new thing if it's a good value to me.

I always welcome feedback about any service, opinions about what is and isn't a good value and so forth. But I see nothing here to generate wild accusations and a Chicken Little approach.

Oh and BTW, I'm about to hop in the shower ... I'm going to exercise my freedom of choice tonight, so wish me luck!  

Serving Ladies, and Leaving the Gentlemen to Noah , I am,

Mountaineer

Reon't be fooled into losing your freedom of choice

Free enterprise is what this country is built on. Your point is of course valid. If someone can provide a product or service for which there is a demand for then by all means, let American continue. But like I said before honesty and integrity make the best business policy. Drumming up false rumors like, "The feds are now investigating this industry" really appears like an attempt to spread unnecessary fear, thus hurting the community not helping it. Then to announce a solution for the fear being spread at a price is a dishonest business strategy. Not to mention wrong to the people these false rumors are about.

Is the feds now investigating internet escorts?
NO.  

Does le watch public boards? YES, but very rarly.

Why? Simply put, any hint of a underage escort will trigger the girl becoming a target. Any board breaking the laws will be quickly shut down.Other then that I'm sure Le finds it humorous to read everyone's fears and panics.

Does Le go after phone records of Escorts? NO, This is an urban myth, one of many in this business. What Le will go after is evidence of a crime. Phone records prove someone owns a phone. More then half of you have your cell, work, or even home phone number stored within our phone company's records. Have any of you been contacted? Anyone at all?

What about past reportings of girls getting busted then clients being contacted? This comes from the girls or agency maintaining a client list. Not from Le searching through phone records.

Unlike many escorts and agencies that jump into this business without educating themselves first, These public boards are structured within the boundaries of the law and then moderated. If they were so high risk then we all would of had problems long ago.

Of course this industry is all about money, and big money at that. But where ever there is big money to be made why does there need to be so many dishonest practices?

This industry and everyone involved has came along ways due to the internet. While we may never succeed at changing societies outlook we can continue to evolve ourselves until society is ready to catch up. We can start by separating Myth from Fact. I've done my part. I know at least one city whose funding for these stings has been hurt.

Play safe, Be smart, and above all keep it honest. Afterall we are all bothers and sisters within this fight for our human right.

Erica

Reon't be fooled into losing your freedom of choice

I have a hard time putting trust into what you are saying, especially because I got a visitor over your agencies problems.  You told us all you didn't keep records - but that wasn't tru was it?  

Practice what you are preaching!

Reon't be fooled into losing your freedom of choice

Just what I was talking about, now suddenly a new name appears no-one has heard of claiming false information. Why? Our REAL clients know from their own experiances that this is not true. Mod, can you check the IP address of this person and tell us if its a provider.

Couple of points:

(1) If you use dial-up access, you get assigned an IP Address at random out of your ISP's "pool" each time you dial in. In those cases, the best you can do is identify a person's ISP. And if that happens to be "AOL" or some other popular service, it doesn't do much to narrow down the person's true identity.

(One exception: If you post under two handles without logging off your ISP, then you WOULD have the same IP addy both times. So if as soon as I finish this, I log out of TER, then log back in as "The Shadow" or whatever, then the Moderator (or, if not him, someone back at TER Central HQ) could tie the two handles together)

(2) The day the Moderator / TER starts checking IP addy's over anything this trivial is the day I leave. I tend to stick to the handle "Mountaineer" for one main reason - whatever credibility I have as an individual is built up through what I have posted over the years. For me, the credence I give anyone else's post is a combination of two things - the reputation of the poster and the content of the post. If the poster is some new handle that just appeared, then the post must stand or fall on its own merit. Sleuthing IP Addresses should be reserved for only the most serious offenses.

If you had a visitor over the MGC incident - in the past 2 and a half months, and didn;t bother to report it to the board since then and decide to "enlighten" us all now....  we must all be F'ing Idiots....    

Get a grip...  If you have something to expose that is meaningful to the people in this venue - then post it!!!  Tell your story...  If you;re willing to post what you just did in order to discredit MGC, then why won;t you share this with all of the people that could be impacted.  On the other hand, it appears you are trying to discredit anothers posting by throwing something out that you are unwilling to share on your own.  

MGC has been open and upfront about what happened to them all along - either directly or thru enough backchannel venues to keep us informed and never - I mean never - has anyone come forth and identified that anything like this has happened.  What makes your situation special?  Speak now - or your future inactivity will simply render you as an oblivious character - with no credibility.  If something like this happened - I want to know - and I want details - just as all of the other details have been shared.  Don;t hide behind a fictitious name.  We have seen that before, haven't we....

Folks, this is not a review....  this is TBD type stuff that we all felt was despicable.  I am all for open speech - all for sharing and identifying where there are issues that need to be addressed.  But Sir/Madam Poster....  puulleeaassee....  if you have information like this, you should share it in the detail that is appropriate since there are many people in your situation (maybe) that could be impacted by such actions.  

Otherwise, stay away......

sl

I understand what you are saying, but using IP information has been a *very* good way of exposing false or misleading reviews or information in the past on other boards.  I remember a lot of a certain escort's enthusiastic 'reviews' being sent from the same IP address.

There is nothing 'cloak and dagger' about it, it's simply a way of verifying information, nothing to be real concerned about.

Aw, you mean I can't post a message looking for underage escorts?

Crap, there goes my weekend.