Hello Ladies and Gents!

I did a search of previous messages which covered some of my questions but not all so here goes...

THE ISSUE:
I've had several gents who say that they found my reviews on TER and they want to set up an appointment.  When I request that they send me some very basic information along with 2 references, I either get bogus info (like a savvy provider, I do my homework so I generally know when someone is untruthful) or they refuse to give info.  

I understand your need for privacy. I have the same need and requirement. When gents don't understand why, I always say to them, "You have the wonderful ability to check out the fact that I'm ligit, not LE, ect by looking at my reviews. Since you don't post any reviews (as 90% of gents don't) and therefore have no white list references, ect, how should I know you're not LE or someone undesireable for me to see?" When I feel like saying, "Why don't you go to CL or Lake and Chicago where they don't require screening or validation on either side?"...ok so that was mean but you know what I'm saying.

There are so many of you wonderful gents who are very easy to help and share your information so that us ladies feel at ease, this is not meant as a question for you. For those gents who contact us ladies who REQUIRE "Gentle Screening", why is this such a hassle for you? I understand you'd like to keep your wives, family, privacy, ect but I don't know any ladies who actually keep or study this information too hard.  They're not going to remember anything about you a week from now so why all the pulling teeth to screen?

I know for myself, I use it to screen, then I delete it all. The thing I do keep is your first name, last initial and a couple of digits in your phone and/or email (NEVER the whole thing, but enough to be able to be a reference for you in the future). The only people who I keep all of it is those who are disrespectful, rude, overly aggressive, ect. (If you're a gentleman, like 99% of you are, you'll never need to be concerned with this; in my 3+ years of this business I've kept 2 clients info and multiple NCNS for my DNS list).

So my question is basically "why is this such an issue?" and does anyone have any suggestions that might make this a less invasive process for both the provider and the hobbiest.

Thanks folks!
Ann.ette

*In a side note, please note I'll be adding the name "Gray" to my name so don't be confused..."Same great Curvy Masseuse feel, just a new addition to help me brand myself better!"

Hey Annette,

I want to shout this out my window, "DO NOT RISK YOUR SAFETY!"

If I recieve one bogus reference, there goes our date. You're 110% correct, we have references to prove we're safe. Honestly, asking for 2 references and basic info isn't a big deal.

Please, don't stop screening! Heck, ask for one more reference!

Good luck,
Anya

This biz is built on trust.  If they can't trust us with a little bit of info, we can't trust them to be true gentlemen.  I always check.  No ref, no meeting. EOM

Thank you for the thoughtful post!

Happy Hobbying

Screening is the only thing that helps me keep my sanity!  lol

When I first started and didn't understand why we needed screening, I didn't screen but for over a year now I've been keeping really close tabs on it.  For a massage girl, a gfe a pse or whatever you're into, it's only safety and who doesn't like safety?

It's just that some guys feel so offended, "put out" or suspicious when we ask.  I understand.  I totally do but when we have reviews...? What's the deal?

Hugs to you Anya! See you soon, hopefully!

It can be tough. The majority of massage ladies in town do not require references or even more than a first name and phone number.

The quality of my clientele increased after screening as well as my level of comfort. Hang in there darlin' and stick to your guns. The quality gents will give you exactly what you desire.

See ya soon!

xoxo

just a caution.  This is a public board with unwelcome eyes.  

So, if I could please ask and remind everyone to not give out too much info on screening here. General advice and opinions are find...by all means, post away.  However, if you have specific and detailed advice for Annette,  I would ask that you PM or email her.

Obviously, the unwelcome eyes already know much of what our screening and verification entails but why make it any easier for them.  

I personally have about 25-30 resources that I use and some you would never think to use.  

*********   As for why it is like pulling teeth sometimes...in my opinion, we all know of the high profil cases where information is leaked to the press AND we see it here on TER where some ladies use personal information of a client against him when things go bad.  This, of course, happens vice versa too where the guy uses a providers personal info against her.  Well, the guys hear about these stories and don't want that trouble.  

It's a case of a few bad apples...

JMHO
Belinda

Hi Annette!

I have nothing new to add here, but wanted to offer my support for you on what you already know, and I suppose also to let the men know that the gals here support the same measures as well.

I've always said "When you get greedy, you get hurt."  The minute your need to "make rent" gets placed over the security measures you put in place, you put yourself at risk.  We need to remember that our favorite thing to do isn't the only thing we can do!    It's better to put yourself on Craigslist as a run-o-the-mill house-cleaner or garage-organizer than to play by rules that don't have your safety in mind.

xoxo~Taylor

I can think of several reasons, none of which necessarily apply to me personally.  I'm also not directing any of these at any particular provider as I know several read this board and ask for references.

1.  Have not hobbied in last 6 months.  Reasons vary from the economy to temporary girlfriend to hobby scares.

2.  No reason to justify work info when other ladies should suffice.  Jeopardizinng long, trusted career security too high a risk for reward.

3.  Some ladies just are not good at remembering.  Once, a lady verified me when I asked for a reference ONE WEEK later.  She didn't remember me even though I discussed references with her.  I needed to come up with 4 things before she said: "Oh, I remember you now!"  Good grief.

4.  Some refuse to provide references regardless.  Some because they think the client should see only them.

5.  There is a time lag hassle.  Not always, but when it happens, it's inconvenient.

Now I'm going to mention the most significant reason that trumps all the others:

Some ladies have figured out how to give a guy the LE test without having someone else tell them that the guy is OK.  It's just so much easier to call them and have them say "Come on over anytime." or "Call me anytime."

I bet 99.9% of the women who get busted either don't screen or are too rushed and see men last minute.

Just sayin...

Angry face for attention only!!!!!!!

LE will do what they can and have to in order to make their arrest.  Yes, with a good attorney and $3-5K later, you MAY be able to fight it in court.  But, guess what, by then the damage is done!

LE test means ZIPPO!!

Thats why site like P411 are great. a lot of the leg work is already done for you ladies and the site is FREE to ladies plus you get to advertise. Kind of sounds like a no brainer to me.

As noted it is a trust relationship on BOTH sides.

Annette asked a question and I gave her some answers.  Do you ladies want to know what we think or not?

If all men were on P411 or RS2K, ect, this would be so much easier.  

Thanks, Viper2! I appreciate your input.

Apparently, there was a law, bill or whatever it is, passed recently stating our emails can be monitored without a warrant. Yes, crazy I know, but Big Brother just has nothing else to do with his time. Lame. (I will find the link later and post it here.)

Anyhoo, please don't hold onto emails. If you are a friend of mine who stores sentimental emails, please delete them. I've had to part with some of those important emails as well, but it's necessary.

Now that doesn't mean we can't use email to contact each other. Just be discreet. Be PG-rated in emails...always. And whatever you do, please delete the emails I've sent to you! Thanks.

Annette: Screening will always be a battle. However, there are many lovely gents here who are more than willing to screen. Pass on those gents who prefer ladies who don't care about their safety and go with those special gents out there who care about us. There are so many and I am quite grateful, because without them, life for me wouldn't be as pleasant or easy. I love my life right now and I appreciate my friends so much. Really.

Hang in there hun.

Xoxo.

on which I changed my mind and cancelled an appointment. Both times, it was due to the simple fact that the lady asked me for absolutely no information. That made me very nervous, and I cancelled.

You just keep doing what you're doing. Unfortunately, there will always be those half-wits, who think they are above being screened, but eventually, they will be the ones standing before the judge.

those of you who are so flexible with helping us out.

Hugs!

I've no luck with p411. The few ladies that I have contacted have never replied. I have better luck with references.

When I saw 2 providers respond their way less than 5 minutes after I made my post, I figured I better make myself clear and put out the "flames", so to speak.  I hope my response to your original post helps all the ladies understand what some guys "might" be thinking as well as yourself.

I don't know this law, but anything is possible and why take the risk.  I agree these emails should be deleted.  Even if there is NO law, proper handling of emails / texts would have prevented some of those high profile LE / celebrity cases.

I would suggest installing a PDF writer such as "cutepdf" or "PDF995".  Any PDF writer can be used as a printer, so that emails can be "printed" and stored electronically, OFF your computer in case you want to retrieve it.  Don't store the PDF on your computer or it defeats the purpose.  Also, be careful how you label and store any of these PDFs.  But a USB jump drive can be quickly destroyed beyond any LE recovery.

The "LE test" of grabbing certain body parts is useless.  I imagine the disclaimers seen on so many ads and websites are equally ineffective.  Undercover cops are allowed to be quite dishonest in what they do otherwise they would never be able to accomplish anything.

That there have been a number of cases where providers did use the personal information they gathered about their clients against some of those same clients is a significant reason why some guys do not want to give out that kind of information.

I haven't had that problem myself but I have had experiences that clearly showed that some escorts do keep more information than they should be keeping.  I suspect a great many guys I have run into that and we simply have no way of being sure who is handling and destroying the information responsible and who is not.

There is also the reality that most escorts do not screen and many guys will simply decide not to give out requested info when there are alternatives that don't require it.  Clearly, the ladies who are most active on TER are not in that category but that is quite small compared to the total number of escorts the guys who use TER see.

None of this should be taken to mean that I think ladies should not screen; it is simply my observations and experiences on the matter.

http://volokh.com/2010/03/15/eleventh-circuit-decision-largely-eliminates-fourth-amendment-protection-in-e-mail/

That has always cracked me up.

Prosecutor:  Did you, at any time, touch the Defendant in a sexual manner?

Cop:  Why, no.  Never.

Defendant (jumps up):  That's a lie!

Judge:  Sit down or I'll hit you with contempt.

Defendant (to attorney):  But, he touched my breast.  He really did.

Attorney:  I think I'm going to need another $1,000.

I fully understand the importance of screening.  Unfortunately for gentlemen who are new or infrequently looking (people like me who don't rise to the level of "hobbyist"), it's a wonder anyone gets together at all.  Time, money, short notice, references, availability of a safe provide and even desire (yes, not all of us are ready to go all of the time), really reduce the probability of making something happen and even more likely that many guys won't have a recent or well-established reference--especially if you're self-employed and don't have a good workplace reference.  Kinda forces some people to the BP or CL option.  I've tried to bring up the subject of pre-screening for hard-to-screen people like myself and it's always been a non-starter.

I've wondered--could Google be a reference for those of us will higher online profiles?  Searching my business work number (self-employed) would bring up my name, business, Linkedin profile, articles I've written, presentations I've made, Facebook, education, resume, clubs I belong to, boards I sit on, etc.  All this info and technically I wouldn't even have to give you my name.  And all of that info is available without an email or phone call trail.  Just wondering . . .

Then there is a guy like me, who for some reason can't get a review posted.I'm as nervous as anyone else. In the past two years,I've seen at least thirty ladies,some more than once,a couple several times.But still,I have no references.I guess I'll just have to miss out on some of the lovely ladies I'd like to try.

First of all: I respect your need to verify for safety and you certainly are free to choose who you see and how you establish their bona fide. But we have to agree to disagree on that one.

I have seen quite a few providers on this board both in the Twin Cities and other places in the US and around the globe. But I have never given out more information than either my TER handle (or a couple of other review boards) my cell phone - prepaid in cash and changed frequently and my first name.

The reason is simple: once the information is out there I have to trust not only the provider but also anyone who could potentially access that info. So unless we hobbyists get detailed information on how our data is kept, how secure you e-mail servers are (do you really think an e-mail deleted in your inbox just disappears?)I will not reveal information that allows anyone to identify me for a long time after I have seen the provider.
And let's face it we all have seen perfectly well reviewed providers go off the deep end after years of being Ms. Reliable.
If you are concerned with someone arrange for a meeting at a public location that's convenient to you and take it from there. Good providers are able to read most guys like an open book and if your weirdo-radar goes off you can always back out.
No disrespect intended, just wanted to show you a client's perspective. Most of us spend a fair amount of $$ on the hobby and in many cases it's for convenience rather than desperate need. And most of us will not tell you that they are concerned but just will find another provider.

Best of luck to you

Not just this one, but all the 'Waaaaaah, TER hates ME, they won;t post my reviews NO MATTER WHAT I DO!!!!!!!'.

Look at the top of the page. As of right now there are 3,681 new reviews. That means there are 3,681 people in the past week or so who were capable of following instructions.

Writing a review isn't rocket science. You know what they are looking for - I hear everybody whine about it in detail, so instead of cursing the darkness, why not light a candle? When all else fails, RTFM.

(for all the non-engineers in the crowd, that means Read The Fucking Manual)

Not singling you out, Jer - this is for all the folks who think that it is impossible to get a review posted. I have 20, and of those probably 3 were kicked back. I refined my style and re-submitted. I learned how to use the system, which has always served me better than complaining about it.

Come on guys - it's really not that hard if a dummy like me can do it.

More importantly delete them and get a program to wipe the data completely.  

A friend of mine works for a data recovery firm and after my hard drive crashed and totally destroyed my directory structure, he was able to get back *everything* INCLUDING some emails that had been long since "deleted".  

Thankfully he was very cool about the whole thing, but he did advise me to get a little freeware program that allows me to overwrite anything I delete to render it completely unrecoverable.

Just $.02 that hopefully helps.

References from other workers is acceptable.
Requiring work related information is clearly an invasion of privacy.

-- Modified on 4/8/2010 8:53:12 AM

even if you delete the email..it still can be recovered so don't think that you out of harms way just by deleting it.

I will say this once again..it comes down to common sense...on BOTH parts and each side being trust worthy of the information they have and hold on to.

Have you asked one of the 30+ women that you've seen if you could use them as a reference?  I'm pretty sure at least one of them would say, "Of course!"

~Jen

You may be confused and thinking you need to have reviews posted to get a reference. That is not the case but it sure helps.

Next time you are with one of those 30 people, as you are preparing to leave, politely ask if you can use her as a reference. Be sensible and poilte and most will agree.... Unless you are a real jerk and they did not enjoy their time with you.

But ladies such as Jen are real Sweethearts about it. They may prefer you came back to see them but they realize that part of what this hobby is about is getting out to see new people. And that locations and schedules do not always line up. Even though I have only met her once (so far), she has given me references a couple times.

And if you need help on a bathroom renovation, she can help you there as well!

Seriously most of the fine ladies on her are regular Saints and I have found that most of them live by a code of "paying it forward" ... In other words you get what you give. Of course there are exceptions but if your general expieriance is not like that, you have oppertunity to improve.

Hi~
Yes, we will agree to disagree.

A couple of things, if I may.

So you're saying all of the ladies you've reviewed didn't screen you? Hmmm

I understand your caution about releasing personal information to just anyone, but aren't you a little choosey whom you are seeing?  Most of us are responsible enough to guard that with our lives, as they say.  Some of us have just as much, if not more  to lose than you do.

There is an element of trust in this game that has to go both ways.  I'm trusting you to be whom you say you are.  That's why I need the information.  I need to make damn sure you're not someone that will cause me bodily harm, or are LE.  I'm trusting that you are you.

While your meeting beforehand has the right concept, I can see where that would be a sting in the makings.

Thank you for the client's perspective.  I wanted you to try to understand the provider's perspective.  

I, as well as most of the "safe providers" that I know here pass on a lot more clients than we see.  We're happy to feel safe, rather than risk it all playing Russian Roulette.  As I always say, whatever works!

Sorry this is so long, but I never really got an answer to my post concerning this same subject in January.  I did get one post back, but I'm not sure he understood what I was asking.  I hope it's OK if I copy it here.  I really would like to know cuz I'm curious.  I went to each lady's website and found that information to see if we were the only ones screening.  Thanks!

"Re: Referemces Requirement
Posted by imDelilah   , 1/20/2010 6:39:01 PM   [See my TER reviews]

I know I've missed a lot, but oh well, my safety first.

Everyone is going to play their own game;  hobbiests and providers.  Whatever works for them.

I have a question though.

When you guys want to see a traveling lady, how do you get around not giving her any screening information?

For instance:

AZ Terri: "I DO REQUIRE REFERENCES"

Naughty Nympho:  "2 provider references"

TipTop Tiffany (Apres Vous):  "be prepared to be verified"

Summer Sin:  "IF U HAVE 2 PROVIDER REFERENCES YOU DO "NOT" HAVE TO FILL OUT YOUR HOME OR WORK INFO"

Jordin (Perfect Ten):  "2 references"

Amber Ashley:  "3 Provider References"

Arielle Lace:  "Screening is mandatory"  She gives three ways to do it.

Just wondering.

Hugs,
D."

I suggest having a talk with them.
I find it hard to fathom that if you have seen that many ladies and you are a gentleman that they enjoy seeing again that they would not be willing to give you a reference.
It doesn't matter how many reviews you have posted as long as your provider references are verifiable reputable providers you should have no problem at all

So, what if I "hobby" very infrequently, and haven't had a chance to do any reviews since I have joined?  Are you all suggesting that I'm out of luck?  Or one of the above mentioned services like rs2k are the way to go?  

You see, the same hesitation I have about giving a stranger my personal info for screening, is the same hesitation I have about giving a strange website all of my verification info.  How do I know I can trust those websites?

Thanks for any help!  

How many providers accept multiple white listings as sufficient screening?

Well...

I believe that most women will give you a reference for 6 months (some 1 yr) after your last date.  I'm guessing you hobby at least 1-2 times a year  But if not, then perhaps P411 is the way to go if you don't want to get verified directly through your new provider each time you choose to see one every 2 years

Hope that helps!
~Jen

If it's a site for a lady that has no reviews and she's basically a TER-nobody, I don't think you can trust the site.

white listing...

some deem it useful. some deem it useless.  some will whitelist every man they see. some take whitelisting as serious business, as they should.

For me, it depends on the ladies who have whitelisted you.  If they are ladies that I am familiar with and know I can trust, then it will be to your advantage, of course.  Also, there are other variables that matter...ex. how long ago they whitelisted you, etc.  

Do not be surprised if one or two of the ladies who have whitelisted you are contacted.  There are behind-the-scenes methods of screening.  That is one of them.

Am I choosy about who I see - that's a HELL YES! from me.
It's either full trust both ways or information control - If I get a provider's full real name and other critical information, oh wait I'm never going to get that or ask for it.
So there's mutual safety in anonymity. I have a provider's reviews, the provider has my board handle. If she gets busted for whatever reason my info can not serve as evidence against her or myself.
I totally understand the need for providers' safety and security. No provider will be on the top of her game if she worries that I'm either a freak or LE. In most cases I can tell on the phone and yes I have walked out on providers who either set off alarm bells when meeting - leaving a "cancellation fee" in most cases.

And yes, none of the providers I have reviewed (with one exception) know my real name or have any other personal information about me. I stopped doing reviews a couple of years ago for a number of reasons. Maybe I just have good "phone vibes"?

So good luck and be safe out there everyone

Anys, I recently contacted you on your website to ask if you would see me since I only have one reference I can give and I've only written one review. I wanted to say thank you in front of everyoneone for showing you have class by replying nicely to me and answering my question. I really appreciate that you did not leave me wondering. I was disappointed that I won't be able to see you, but totally respect your right to ssk for as many references as you need to make you feel safe. Thanks again for responding.