I'll respond to you DJ.
Do you know that I've seen all but one of the ladies on YOUR white list? Several of them multiple times...
Every one of them would pick up the phone and see me as soon as they're available.
There is so much more to this story than you know.
What I don't like is you (as in the members of this forum) assuming you know the whole story with the provider who started all this...and bashing me here. If only you knew the erratic girl I know...
Sorry but I'm not going to be replying to you any more Sarah as I don't want to help generate free attention for you.
-- Modified on 3/18/2014 3:05:46 PM
Contacted a new girl in town and she said 200 for topless and 300 for nude. No reviews and she's asking for donations that correlate to full service. Works with a girl who has reviews but not the best and she basically writes me off because I don't want to donate that for a nude massage. Says she's doing doubles with her and doing just fine but then her schedule looks pretty open.
Not going to add a link as she is new and maybe she'll have a following but not me. I don't get the price strategy with some of these girls, especially being new. To each their own as they say.
-- Modified on 3/15/2014 10:43:59 PM
As someone who has (recently) been told I won't be seen because my ratea are too high I will tell you this:
You are correct when you say to each their own. As women and as providers we all have different viewpoints on what we are comfortable with asking for a donation...we are the ones who put our safety on the line and also commit to providing the best experience we possibly can. I don't think any guy should try to convince a provider her donation is too high. If you feel 300 for a nude massage is not worth it to you, then don't pay it. I'm sure you can find a different provider who offers it at a rate you feel is fair for the service.
Even though she is new, she still has every right to decide what she thinks her donations should be, just like you have every right to choose to not see her because of her donation. Not many of us are looking to negotiate what we feel our services are worth. She isn't begging you to see her or trying to convince you to pay her rate so If I were you I would find a different provider whose price/service ratio is worth it to you.
Enough already. You are mad some guy thinks you are over priced and is harassing you. Try not to relate the next 20 threads to you. Take a look at the top providers and the way they conduct themselves. Diarrhea of the mouth should never be the cornerstone of a hookers marketing plan. No where did whohash say he tried to convince her that her rates are too high and email stalk her. It's completely different than your situation. Not to mention he's right, that pricing is a joke.
About time someone said what many of us are thinking...
I'm gonna agree with whohash on this as well.
That is quite ridiculous however ... It's up to the provider .
Observations over the years tell me that
some guys aren't happy no matter what the rate is and that's on them, not anyone else.
It's funny that you consider yourself a hobbyist yet you are so quick to throw out offensive terms like "a hooker's marketing plan". That shows no respect to these women that you request spend time with you.
Secondly my response to this post had very little to do with my own situation. Yes I have ran into a situation where someone was unhappy with my prices recently, but if you read my response again it was simply my opinion of the situation whohash outlined in his original post. The only reason I mentioned that I had recently encountered a situation concerning my own rates was to reiterare that my post was my humble opinion only, which comes from my experience. I was not intending to continue speaking on my situation as that has already been hashed out. I don't feel my post centered on my previous situation at all and was simply my thoughts on the post...which is the point of a forum isn't it?,
First time I read this it didn't hit me as hard as now.. "hooker's marketing plan" OMG I'm about to piss my pants.. I'll be sure to call Leann if I shart myself to boot!
Statements like "we are the ones who put our safety on the line..." are so narrow minded. I am sick of providers act like they are the constant "possible victim" in this business. You don't think that there are dangers for those of us who are using your services? Open your eyes and mind a little. BOTH parties have safety concerns when meeting each other.
One example look a ways down in the posts where the guy claimed to have a provider whom he thought he knew pretty well only to have her steal from him when his back was turned.
I do agree with you that it is your business and your rates are for you and only you to decide. If someones rate is too high for your comfort, move on to the next one.
A little business advice to new providers would be that to establish yourself starting at a lower rate and proving yourself can be a good marketing tool. Only if you are looking for the business. Many start out at a certain rate then once they have some reviews and credibility they then raise their rates. Supply and demand. Just an option I am not telling anyone they have to do this.
mnborn80,
Your last paragraph says it all...a little business advice.
Especially when someone is a new provider with no reviews yet or just a couple and is just beginning.
Or dealing with a possible 'fake' review, air mattress, cheap hotel, etc. that could damage their reputation.
These are times when business advice may be freely given if you're lucky even though it's often not taken.
Of course providers can choose whatever rates they want just as hobbyists can choose to see them or not.
I never negotiate rates as my decision to see them or not is based on far more important things than their rates or even their looks. If they provide a "quality" service (we all have to decide what that is) for a fair price, then it usually ends in a win-win situation for all.
One example look a ways down in the posts where the guy claimed to have a provider whom he thought he knew pretty well only to have her steal from him when his back was turned.
I do agree with you that it is your business and your rates are for you and only you to decide. If someones rate is too high for your comfort, move on to the next one.
A little business advice to new providers would be that to establish yourself starting at a lower rate and proving yourself can be a good marketing tool. Only if you are looking for the business. Many start out at a certain rate then once they have some reviews and credibility they then raise their rates. Supply and demand. Just an option I am not telling anyone they have to do this.
That's not what I heard...LOL !
Here's some better business advice :
STAY AS FAR AWAY AS YOU CAN FROM A PROVIDERS INTERNAL BUSINESS OPERATIONS AND PERSONAL LIFE.
Why ? Because some of you guys start trouble 100% of the time. You do. With your back channel bullshit that you think won't get back to us lol oh please save your bullying for the schoolyard where ya came from! It's not needed or helpful.
Start off at a lower rate ? So do y'all want to handle the hagglers that this method brings when a lady decides to raise her rates after "establishing" herself? I Thought not.
Because that's exactly what happens.
I could show plenty of examples but that's a whole other thread.
You don't know those women's stories .
They could be doing this temporarily for all you know.
It's not mine or your business to know actually.
I feel the same way about male MP owners, I mean here we have some guy knocking on the door before your session is through like he's some damn bouncer and places with ridiculous crossover traffic...
Oh but, that's totally worth the cost and deserves high regards right ?
So why is it totally different for an independent lady ?
My apologies guys, I have to step in and say something about how wrong you can be about the provider end of things
Wonder how many guys have dropped a couple $$ on a shit time. I know I have.
No apologies provider, I have to step in and say something about how wrong you are about the guys end of things. Rant on
Its funny that I was accused of bringing up my own situation when really it is you, OldTimerB, who has decided to bring in my own situation to this thread. Having said that, I'd like to share an excerpt of a message I have copy and pasted that I received from an "unnamed hobbyist":
...While I do see girls in your price range, extra money to see you is scarce at the moment as I have several others to see in the next week. Should you discount your services significantly, I'd be glad to see you and write a glowing review for you...
But I am in total agreement that hobbyists should "never negotiate rates" 
....an asswipe is also a liar!
-- Modified on 3/16/2014 9:10:26 PM
Whatever Johnboy.
You can believe whatever you want but I never said I saw the Japanese idol or whatever. I said I saw a Chinese girl who looked like the girl in ONE of the pictures in the ad.
WWTD?
In case you don't get it...What Would Trin Do?
Maybe I'll go see her this week and talk about how all of you jump on the bandwagon and assume what a new provider is saying must be gospel when it's nothing but lies, committed information, and things taken totally out of context.
Good night Johnboy.
-- Modified on 3/16/2014 9:10:26 PM
You sound like a couple of girls in an internet cat fight! MJ's weekly Trinity shills are bad enough, we don't need to tolerate any between Friday prissy male cat fights like this is starting to sound like! Grow some balls or I'm pulling your Man Cards!
You're absolutely right...both parties take risks in these situations. I did not mean to overlook the risks that guys take as well. However, you have never been a woman so you do not know the feeling of being 100% vulnerable alone with a man you have never met.
To me, I would rather risk losing my cash and valuables than risk getting kidnapped, raped, beaten etc. However as it applies with all discussion board posts, this is simply my humble opinion. I think we all, myself included, learn more when we share and listen to opinions that differ from our own.
So.....does anyone know where I can get a good massage?
Not from any of the ladies on this thread. Maybe 1 exception
"Some cash and valuables?" Here a a differing opinion that I think you can benefit from.
You're leaving a few things out, here is a non inclusive but more complete list. Men have been;
Beaten
Blackmailed
Robbed
Arrested (for us this is a big one) we don't have to be convicted, causing us to possibly;
Lose our families
Divorce costing us 1/2 or more of everything we own
Lose our friends
Lose our jobs
Remember we are not compensated for taking this risk, we pay for the pleasure of it.
I've said repeatedly that I admire the ladies that do this and I'm concerned for all the ladies even worry about ones I care for. I am very tired of the one sided view like this that many take on this board. We need to be in this together or not in it at all!
Well said, I also heard of a pimp hiding in someone's closet about a year ago & stepping out to beat the hobbyist with a baseball bat!
The sad thing, is the hobby-ist had supposedly seen that women before. I did hear the story second hand so take it for what it's worth but I'm sure it's not unheard of.
So yes there is a one sided belief on the board that the men are not at risk physically (kinda sexist right) oh well!
This board is usually pretty sexist I've noticed, there's always a running theme that some members are quick to point out that all these providers care about is money, I don't believe that and completely know there are a lot of unique women in MN who make very valid connections with the people they see and the financial part is just a way to "kill two birds.."
We all have bills to pay.
Ok one last thing oldtimer ....when you discussed the Japanese girl, I remember reading what you said and thinking
You said you did actually see her but that her hair was lighter, and I thought it was funny when someone pointed out she's famous ...so you lost credibility in my eyes, I'm just saying that's how I read that discussion too.... So I guess if you went back & said something like
"my bad I was wrong I guess it wasn't the exact girl in the picture, but she damn sure looked like her" or some other equivalent, then you would not have lost credibility. Anyway people shouldn't get surprised if they are called liars if they don't correct themselves when they're wrong.
How in the hell do I know if it's the girl in the ad.
I said several times it looked like or similar to or eerily the same or whatever like the girl in the ad...not all the girls in the ad but ONE picture.
The sad thing, is the hobby-ist had supposedly seen that women before. I did hear the story second hand so take it for what it's worth but I'm sure it's not unheard of.
So yes there is a one sided belief on the board that the men are not at risk physically (kinda sexist right) oh well!
This board is usually pretty sexist I've noticed, there's always a running theme that some members are quick to point out that all these providers care about is money, I don't believe that and completely know there are a lot of unique women in MN who make very valid connections with the people they see and the financial part is just a way to "kill two birds.."
We all have bills to pay.
Ok one last thing oldtimer ....when you discussed the Japanese girl, I remember reading what you said and thinking
You said you did actually see her but that her hair was lighter, and I thought it was funny when someone pointed out she's famous ...so you lost credibility in my eyes, I'm just saying that's how I read that discussion too.... So I guess if you went back & said something like
"my bad I was wrong I guess it wasn't the exact girl in the picture, but she damn sure looked like her" or some other equivalent, then you would not have lost credibility. Anyway people shouldn't get surprised if they are called liars if they don't correct themselves when they're wrong.
I said several times it looked like or similar to or eerily the same or whatever like the girl in the ad...not all the girls in the ad but ONE picture.
How about claiming first hand knowledge of someone or somewhere only to later recant and say it came from a third party? How does one forget the small detail of me vs someone else?
How about submitting reviews for women knowing it's incorrect and basically saying screw it, close enough?
And you are correct as well that it's up to her what she's comfortable charging. Just as it's perfectly within a car mechanic's right to charge $1,000 for not fixing your car.
Your rates are in line, but, you can bet if you triple them, people out here are going to say something about it.
PSSST... that's their right too.
I think I said before that I could charge 60 an hour and upsell people to death again like back in the Relax-O-Lounge days if that's what they really wanted...keep in mind that if I did that it will cost twice as much as my current rates by the time I'm done.
I'm totally saving someone from that awkward hassle the way I'm doing it. Xo V.
Thanks for mentioning the good old days of Relax-O-Lounge. Some great times, some not so great, but great memories nonetheless
Upsellers, I usually just leave never to return.. negotitation for everything when the time comes is different.. I'm talking the girl that tries to get you a little worked up and frustrated at the same time.. "Wanna see a little more baby?"
Although, i have to admit.. I kinda fell for that on a recent trip. I knew exactly where it was going up front and I got what I paid for, it just wasn't what i was looking for and more $$$ then I wanted to spend.
Your not the only putting personal safety on the line. There are threads here ab out guys getting beat up and all their $$ taken from them.
You are correct when you say to each their own. As women and as providers we all have different viewpoints on what we are comfortable with asking for a donation...[bold]we are the ones who put our safety on the line [/bold]and also commit to providing the best experience we possibly can. I don't think any guy should try to convince a provider her donation is too high. If you feel 300 for a nude massage is not worth it to you, then don't pay it. I'm sure you can find a different provider who offers it at a rate you feel is fair for the service.
Even though she is new, she still has every right to decide what she thinks her donations should be, just like you have every right to choose to not see her because of her donation. Not many of us are looking to negotiate what we feel our services are worth. She isn't begging you to see her or trying to convince you to pay her rate so If I were you I would find a different provider whose price/service ratio is worth it to you.
Give us both names. Her and her friend.
Without the names, this might as well be written on comic book paper.
$300 for just a nude massage does seem a bit pricey for this area .... However it is possible that the menu is far more open than you might think .... Some providers, especially on BP will advertise massage instead or in addition to escort to either "reduce" attention from LE or gain more ground in advertising. I am not saying this is what she is doing nor do I know what she offers .... Only that in my experience some BP providers do it that way. My advice: do not ask her but either toftt or wait to see a few of her reviews.
I agree 100% miss Love.
As was previously mentioned, it is a matter of supply and demand in its truest form. We as hobbyists, have allowed/encouraged price increases via our patronage of the services, as well as our comments in reviews. We use terms such as "bargain" when paying prices of $100 which is often times for as little as 30 min and gee, she didn't even upsell me for a HJ. It would be interesting to know the avg. hourly wage of the typical hobbyist. I happen to be an erotic massage only hobbyist and remember the not-to-distant-past, when you could easily get a wonderful happy erotic massage for under a Hondo. It would be interesting to compare prices for service against the rate of inflation. Well, sorry, didn't mean to ramble. The ladies have every right to charge whatever they please. If you want to enjoy more reasonable pricing, it's necessary to get "JR" under control and boycott the hobby en masse. These ladies are intelligent business persons, they don't decide to increase pricing because the phone "isn't" ringing. Which of us wouldn't choose to work half as much for double the pay if we could? They're simply charging as the market will bear.
Or not. It's not a rate I would pay for less than a FS provider with an open menu but if she gets enough business to keep her happy then so be it.
This is a good reminder why I don't post a lot on here.
I digress...both you and fuzzybear have very good points and having read them I did reflect to myself that I have never been in your shoes either so cannot totally understand that side. I appreciate the feedback and info from the guys side of things from both of you.
I am in total agreement we all need to stick together.
She did throw the train off the tracks- she made it about her and not the OP. I think she should sit back and listen and learn for awhile. IMO.
And her last post makes it looks like she may have found the "the light" - to a degree. This is a good start.
Ok, wait. In NO WAY was I attempting to make this thread about me. Please go back and read my first post, it is the first post in response to the original post that started this thread. The post simply tells my opinion of the situation whohash outlined! Obviously my own opinions come from my own experiences and observations, where else would opinions come from? I'm sorry to sound flustered I simply am very put off because I was only trying to input my thoughts on HIS situation. It was the next poster, MrDionysus, who accused me of spinning the topic around and then OldTimerB who actually brought up my fake review issue. I had ZERO intentions of that happening. I saw a post, had an opinion, and shared it. I was clear, as I always try to be on forums, that it was simply my opinon, and thus, should be taken with a grain of salt. I think that if anyone re reads my first post they will see that I focused on his issue, that of a $300 nude massage.
The issue got out of hand and I felt the need to defend myself and share my opinions agreeing or disagreeing with all the posts that followed Mr. Dionysus and OldTimerB. I think if the times of posts are observed it is clear I was not the instigator of topic change...
I was only trying to be an active community member and my post was interpreted the wrong way...my apologies to all, especially whohash..I was truly just trying to give my input on your issue, I did not ever mean to switch the focus.
And her last post makes it looks like she may have found the "the light" - to a degree. This is a good start.
-- Modified on 3/17/2014 11:00:54 AM
Once an air mattress girl, always an air mattress girl...no matter what your rates are!
Grow up, forget it, and focus on your clients.
Grow up, forget it, and focus on your clients.
Just so you don't get confused Derp, my visit was NOT on an air mattress!
-- Modified on 3/17/2014 12:48:05 PM
I'm the stalker? Lol
Derp follows me everywhere I go and keeps bringing up the same tired shit.
Yeah I'll move on from the attention grubbing kia. Lots of free advertising for her. See how many repeat customers she gets lmao.
I won't post to any board where she's already posted but if she attacks me for no reason like Derp, I will reply.
Derp follows me everywhere I go and keeps bringing up the same tired shit.
Yeah I'll move on from the attention grubbing kia. Lots of free advertising for her. See how many repeat customers she gets lmao.
I won't post to any board where she's already posted but if she attacks me for no reason like Derp, I will reply.
I'm still waiting on any example of a "lie or omission" from your previous comment. Now in the omission category, yeah there is plenty I haven't told you about women in town.. BECAUSE I DON'T TRUST YOU!!
You just proved my point.
Recently when I reply on a post (not joined TER where you joined before me), you have to reply to my comment and bring up one of your two anal-retentive points...
How I did not see the JAPANESE actress...never said I did. I said I saw a Chinese girl who looked REMARKABLY IDENTICAL to the J-girl.
How the girl I saw came from the ad of your girl...big whoop.
Your chill pills working yet?
I'm done talking to you in any shape or form so go find another dead horse to beat Derp.
I am proud to say I have repeated with Kia 5 times. I do not choose to type a new review each time. Kia is extremely friendly , personable, sexy, beautiful and attentive to my needs each time I see her and is well worth her rate of $325.
Old timer, for you to continue to bash a provider that you have never seen is highly disgusting and questionable. Can we honestly trust ANY of your reviews?
I may not have the cash flow that others do, but I will continue to see Kia on a regular basis as often as I am able and she is available, and encourage others on this board to see her as well.
Good for you..enjoy Kia as often as you can. Glad you like her. Hope you continue seeing her for a long time. Marry her if it's possible for you. Seriously...
A little advice to you though. Keep her busy so she doesn't say shit to me and I won't say it back to her.
But seeing her once is enough for me. I'm choosing not to write a review on her like 90% of the ladies I see.
My personal preference, my reasons, my business, end of story.
If all of you stop asking me about her, I'll have no reason to talk about her, right! Lol so simple.
-- Modified on 3/17/2014 7:07:14 PM
If your going to talk about someone have the ball$ to name names and link, otherwise your just a little kid w/no balls. I hate people talking behind my back, be a man if you want honest answer.
Not going to add a link as she is new and maybe she'll have a following but not me. I don't get the price strategy with some of these girls, especially being new. To each their own as they say.
-- Modified on 3/15/2014 10:43:59 PM
They also probably hang out with other providers and know the more specific details of why they set their rates at a certain level. Maybe they have a lot of medical bills and set their rates lower to get more business. Maybe they don't like you and are giving you a higher rate so you say no. Maybe they go to school and charge more because they don't have a lot of time during finals week. Maybe they have kids and need to charge more because it's hard to find a babysitter. Maybe they have a rich regular they takes up the majority of her time. Maybe they have a corporate job and get off on the fantasy of being a high class escort. They don't need completely obvious advice like you charge too much, the market rate is $$$ or if you lower rates you will get more business and they certainly aren't going to discuss the intricate details of their life situation on a public forum to justify their rates. Your money is your opinion, if you think it's worth it you make an appointment if you don't then you move on to the next provider. If my opinion mattered Coach purses would be given away for free and AMC theatre would not be charging $15 for two crappy old hot dogs and a Coke but some how they stay in business without my money.
Seriously one of the best summation's ever!
I wish that your outlook would get posted in all newbie hobby-ist area's!
Thank you!