This is a typical bdsm scenario. If it's not for you, then don't do it. Yes, it feels like anger, and certainly anger is involved, but when played out between CONSENTING adults who wish to do it, it's just another expression of sexual impulse.
I am dominant, and learned of my dominance through experiences with a number of submissive partners. Some years ago, I found myself surprised when a submissive woman told me she wanted me to do to her exactly what you describe. This is what turned her on...I complied and we had a great time. But ... it's all in what you want and what your tastes are. You are not too vanilla; there are no "standards."
I once made a simple request of a provider I had seen several times. I suggested introducing a vinyl bra, a duck, 17 feet of twine, a two-iron, six tennis balls, a bag of frozen peas, a half gallon of water based orange paint, a medieval catapult, and spurs to one of our sessions.
She stared at me in horror and managed to exclaim, "Frozen peas?"
She's never returned my calls since.
Posted By: 741512th
I once made a simple request of a provider I had seen several times. I suggested introducing a vinyl bra, a duck, 17 feet of twine, a two-iron, six tennis balls, a bag of frozen peas, a half gallon of water based orange paint, a medieval catapult, and spurs to one of our sessions.
She stared at me in horror and managed to exclaim, "Frozen peas?"
She's never returned my calls since.
Who would have 2 iron? Tiger Woods?
To each their own, but if the experience would potentially bring on tears, I'd pass. I would think the experience would be better for him if he found someone who was really be in to it.
Nothing wrong with respecting someone's wants/needs....doesn't mean you have to jump in with both feet!
what was described as a fantacy is violant abuse. you are providers of comfort and pleasure. you MUST stay in control of each encounter. anyone who would want the things you described is not well. what you described would lead to even worse. you can offer passion and sex with out selling you basic human dignity. Please protect yourself, stick with nice guys who want to love you not beat you.
In other words, don't do it if you don't feel comfortable. When I said, "to each their own," I was just trying to say that I wouldn't judge a person for asking about such a scenario. I also would never, ever fault a lady for turning down a request they weren't comfortable with. Their body....their business....their choice.
If it were intended "violant abuse" There wouldn't be a request.
Men are becoming so emasculated that they might as well skip the circumcision and birth and go right to castration.
Posted By: aladinsane
what was described as a fantacy is violant abuse. you are providers of comfort and pleasure. you MUST stay in control of each encounter. anyone who would want the things you described is not well. what you described would lead to even worse. you can offer passion and sex with out selling you basic human dignity. Please protect yourself, stick with nice guys who want to love you not beat you.
You agreed to participate, yes? however, that being said, your aftermath feelings are completely justified. I empathize, I bet many Providers could. Hobbyists (most) realize that we are humans. I'm sorry you're feeling this way regardless of new personal boundaries that you may have gained in retrospect. Its a sucky feeling. Don't let this particular circumstance harden your heart. Vulnerability and conscience beats apathy and thick skin any day. Hang in there.
No I have not given him an answer yet. My post here is an attempt to gain some perspective before making the decision. I referred to the request as a "curve ball" because this type of scenario is completely out of the norm with him. Our sessions have always been GFE to the max & is what he has always preferred. Honestly, it shocked & startled me. He really is a very sweet, & gentle man & has always been very respectful. Even when he presented the proposal he did so in a respectful fashion & apologized in advance if I felt offended.
I've seen ladies express that at times they have engaged in this type of role-play but only with gents they have established a trusting & respectful relationship with & they had a nice time under those circumstances. I have such a relationship with this gent but still can't envision enjoying these activities with him. Not at this point anyway.
I misread, I'm sorry.
Posted By: heartsonfire1
No I have not given him an answer yet. My post here is an attempt to gain some perspective before making the decision. I referred to the request as a "curve ball" because this type of scenario is completely out of the norm with him. Our sessions have always been GFE to the max & is what he has always preferred. Honestly, it shocked & startled me. He really is a very sweet, & gentle man & has always been very respectful. Even when he presented the proposal he did so in a respectful fashion & apologized in advance if I felt offended.
I've seen ladies express that at times they have engaged in this type of role-play but only with gents they have established a trusting & respectful relationship with & they had a nice time under those circumstances. I have such a relationship with this gent but still can't envision enjoying these activities with him. Not at this point anyway.
Posted By: heartsonfire1
No I have not given him an answer yet. My post here is an attempt to gain some perspective before making the decision. I referred to the request as a "curve ball" because this type of scenario is completely out of the norm with him. Our sessions have always been GFE to the max & is what he has always preferred. Honestly, it shocked & startled me. He really is a very sweet, & gentle man & has always been very respectful. Even when he presented the proposal he did so in a respectful fashion & apologized in advance if I felt offended.
I've seen ladies express that at times they have engaged in this type of role-play but only with gents they have established a trusting & respectful relationship with & they had a nice time under those circumstances. I have such a relationship with this gent but still can't envision enjoying these activities with him. Not at this point anyway.
The whole BDSM thing isn't my bag, but then again neither are spinners. To each their own. But, the fact that he asked shows he respects your boundaries and limits.
You've already answered it, as only you can.
No one should feel like they need to do something they are not comfortable with. And while I am assuming you told him no, you could look at it as a compliment that he was comfortable enough with you to ask.
then there is nothing wrong with what he proposes. Although I do not mind having a man hold my hair and have his hand on the back of my head urging me on, I would never allow him to choke me, slap me, or call me names. We all have boundaries and if this request is beyond what you feel comfortable doing, don't do it. No amount of money is worth feeling coerced or forced into doing anything you don't wish to do.
P.S. - I do not think of you as vanilla............I am vanilla. Maybe you are ripple?
makes you feel good, BUT NEVER UNCOMFORTABLE. Regular or not...
I could not do it, sorry....
Maybe a little Hair Tug From Behind..
But Choke and Smack Me, HELL NO!!!!
Be Safe !
… but I came to this late in life after a sexual career that was far beyond vanilla. More like paper white. So living out fantasies is what my hobby life is about.
You can't watch much porn if you find this fantasy inconceivable. There are hundreds of porn sites, thousands of videos, devoted to exactly this. And many of those videos start with an interview in which the woman explains how the scenario plays into her own fantasy in various ways. Some … many … of them are surely parroting lines to earn a fee, but many of them are very, very convincing. And when the action is underway there is every appearance that she is, if not comfortable, fully into the experience and the fantasy. And there are interviews afterwards in which she explains what she liked, what she didn't, what she will do differently next time to heighten the experience. So it is not at all surprising that a guy could imagine an experienced woman might be receptive to this fantasy.
I am lucky enough to be friendly with a provider who enjoys some of this in her private life. After a respectful negotiation, we tried it. It's not about anger, it's power exchange, and it's amazing how much power a submissive woman has in that situation. When we were done, she basically told me I'm a big pussy and I have to agree. I'll never be the right guy for a woman who wants to be dominated. But even so, I had fun finding this out; the experience hasn't changed our friendship; and I have crossed another fantasy off my list. I cannot imagine doing something like this with a woman who states with certainty she would find no pleasure in it, though.
So the answer to your question is 'No, you are not too vanilla for finding this personally unappealing.” You have every right to decide where your boundaries lie and to protect them any way you need to. But given the hobby we are in, don't hand your client a big ball of negative judgment for asking the question, either. (I don't assume that you did. This is part of the answer.) From your description he approached you just the way he should have. Turn him down, absolutely, judge him, absolutely not. Or at least, read some of the literature of the BDSM community before you undertake to judge. Judging from ignorance sucks.
.....while my background is very diifferent from minn4evr (many years of BDSM experiences), I agree with his comments and advice and can only add that it is always a matter of personal preference as long as it is safe, sane and consenual.
Posted By: minn4evr
… but I came to this late in life after a sexual career that was far beyond vanilla. More like paper white. So living out fantasies is what my hobby life is about.
You can't watch much porn if you find this fantasy inconceivable. There are hundreds of porn sites, thousands of videos, devoted to exactly this. And many of those videos start with an interview in which the woman explains how the scenario plays into her own fantasy in various ways. Some … many … of them are surely parroting lines to earn a fee, but many of them are very, very convincing. And when the action is underway there is every appearance that she is, if not comfortable, fully into the experience and the fantasy. And there are interviews afterwards in which she explains what she liked, what she didn't, what she will do differently next time to heighten the experience. So it is not at all surprising that a guy could imagine an experienced woman might be receptive to this fantasy.
I am lucky enough to be friendly with a provider who enjoys some of this in her private life. After a respectful negotiation, we tried it. It's not about anger, it's power exchange, and it's amazing how much power a submissive woman has in that situation. When we were done, she basically told me I'm a big pussy and I have to agree. I'll never be the right guy for a woman who wants to be dominated. But even so, I had fun finding this out; the experience hasn't changed our friendship; and I have crossed another fantasy off my list. I cannot imagine doing something like this with a woman who states with certainty she would find no pleasure in it, though.
So the answer to your question is 'No, you are not too vanilla for finding this personally unappealing.” You have every right to decide where your boundaries lie and to protect them any way you need to. But given the hobby we are in, don't hand your client a big ball of negative judgment for asking the question, either. (I don't assume that you did. This is part of the answer.) From your description he approached you just the way he should have. Turn him down, absolutely, judge him, absolutely not. Or at least, read some of the literature of the BDSM community before you undertake to judge. Judging from ignorance sucks.
-- Modified on 1/31/2013 1:04:31 PM
I appreciate your feeling comfortable asking, but that is beyond what I can do while enjoying myself. There are a lot of great ladies that are much more into that sort of thing. I love pleasing you, and I want to continue doing so. However, for that particular fantasy, I would recommend trying another provider who is into more of the Dom/Sub thing...
I'm a very sweet, & gentle man & has always been very respectful too. I enjoy GFE / PSE 99% of the time but a few years ago I was introduced to Bondage role play with a GFE /PSE provider that did both, combining the two was quite arousing. Every so often I get the urge to explore bondage role play again but I stick with providers that advertise bondage role play and have bondage pics on their website because I don't want to offend providers that find this sort of fantasy strange but also if they are not into this sort of thing the role play usually won't have a realistic feel to it. As far as the choking most BDSM providers stay away from that activity but expressing anger in a bondage role play session can release a lot of tucked away emotions and be quite sexually stimulating. Just before the holidays my boss cut my hours and to say the least his actions put a damper on my Holidays. After stumbling across a video on the internet(see link - but lower your volume)my mind started thinking of my boss and that is what I would like to do to him with a female provider helping me. After watching the video a few more times I decided to give myself a Xmas present and made an appointment with a visiting ATF provider where we acted out a role play of kidnapping my boss and putting him on a stretching rack device. I was able to release alot of anger and still enjoy my PSE activities. I must admit I got a bit carried away with turning the cranks but it must of worked, I got my hours back 2 weeks ago
Posted By: TrinityLake
I appreciate your feeling comfortable asking, but that is beyond what I can do while enjoying myself. There are a lot of great ladies that are much more into that sort of thing. I love pleasing you, and I want to continue doing so. However, for that particular fantasy, I would recommend trying another provider who is into more of the Dom/Sub thing...
As has been said by some of the others, this is a BDSM type of scene......between two consenting adults who have talked it all over, and have a "safe word" to be used if/when the scene goes beyond boundaries or is uncomfortable, this can be a very pleasurable experience for both parties. If your uncomfortable doing doing, then don't, there are Domme/sub providers out there for this type of action.
At least he asked first. You can always say no. Or suggest modifications to his request.
As someone who has played in alot of areas of the fetish community as a switch personally and professionally
Anytime you see the word choke, there is a safety issue, and some clients are unaware of the dangers involved in this kind of play.. so if you have not yourself participated in this kind of play before, as Provider or client then I would give a big fat NO WAY IN HELL to this fantasy.
This is not something that you just "dabble" in and descide, I want to "try out"
If you as a provider or client are not skilled in the "oral choking arts" you can seriously get hurt or cause damage. Anything in the fetish community in regards to "breathe play" requires a good back round in it, as you are restricting the flow of oxygen to the brain.
Now lets add the applying force to the pipes, and not to mention thrusting in the "heat of a moment"
An "oops" in this situation, can cause your partner to pass out or worse.
So this is not something that should be looked at or dealt with or taken lightly.
As a provider you know what your hard limits are, and you know what your soft limits are ..
Myself, I am a switch , have had professional experience in the BDSM community..
I look at this and my hard limit in regards to this scenario is the "Money Shot" cum on face request..
I wouldnt budge on that.. but that doesnt mean I dive all enthusiastically into PSE in every appointment.
This type of thing is something that can be discussed and developed over time with consent and limits.
There is some name calling im ok with , and some names that if im called by them will cause the scenario to take a quick flip with the client being in the sub position in lighting time.
This scenario is not anger, this is what is referred to as "power play" or "power exchange" or "control enforcement" and .. its common and in some situations you are dealing with someone who may have anger issues, but you also may be dealing with someone who has no issues and just likes to be in the Dom position in some "control enforcement" play.
I think whats great is that you have such a relationship with the client that he opened up to you about this and it certainly opens the door for sex positive discussion and communication about limits.
How can both parties get something out of the scenario and feel needs were met without such extremes or maybe find a toned down version that would be fun and arousing for both of you..
I mean if you have never engaged in that kind of play before , then the request would be shocking.. but what parts of this could he or yourself compromise on? Maybe find a way for both of you to experiment with your kinky side selves.
After having a long term regular type relationship ,, maybe it would be fun to slowly push the envelope and see what happens,, or maybe not. But its certainly worth having a conversation about.
It doesnt make you "vanilla" or " boring" or lacking in passion if this is something that doesnt appeal to you.. nor does it limit yourself as a provider if you dont want to engage in those activities..
to each their own.
Hearts you're awesomamazing either way, and dont let yourself or anyone else tell you any different
xoxoxo
it's simply not your thing. If you go through with it, it's likely neither one of you will have any fun. Worse, the dynamic between you and your "sweet regular" will change. What if you try it and he requests it again? You deserve continued respect from this gentleman and every gentleman you choose to visit with. There is someone for everyone...I also say no thank you to violence and vulgarity. Harmless fantasy to some, yes. This scene is not light BDSM. I hope you can continue the established relationship as is with this gent.
Posted By: heartsonfire1
Or should I say "A" fantasy. A very sweet regular of mine threw me a curve ball today. Asking me to fulfill a fantasy of pulling my hair, thrusting his cock down my throat, choking me w/ it, some face slapping & name calling, & ending w/ him cumming all over my face. He says it would all be in fun & just a fantasy?
This feels like anger to me & is inconceivable to me how to make such a fantasy a pleasurable experience for me. I can see already (as I close my eyes) either falling into tears of humiliation, or getting angry enough to retaliate with a well calculated punch where it counts. The second consideration the most likely.
Am I too vanilla considering I would not find such a request enticing?
-- Modified on 1/30/2013 6:17:31 PM
There are some providers that offer and enjoy BDSM explorations as far as role play, gags, blindfolds, erotic denial, tight restrictive bondage(IE/ stretching rack and testing ones breaking point(or a little farther) with S & M activities like whipping, hot wax, clothespins, CBT but would be considered "vanilla" by others in the BDSM community because we would never or can't imagine why individuals would explore or offer S & M activities like choking, suffocation, scat play, needle or knife play.
Some one say that stretching rack was not too vanilla
Posted By: Capri_Jake
There are some providers that offer and enjoy BDSM explorations as far as role play, gags, blindfolds, erotic denial, tight restrictive bondage(IE/ stretching rack
and testing ones breaking point(or a little farther) with S & M activities like whipping, hot wax, clothespins, CBT but would be considered "vanilla" by others in the BDSM community because we would never or can't imagine why individuals would explore or offer S & M activities like choking, suffocation, scat play, needle or knife play.
That sounds sick, tell him to watch a movie. Why would this guy think you would agree to
such perversion?
I remember an obituary for a guy who was a sort of procurer for Hollywood stars back in the 40's and 50's. Rock Hudson, Montgomery Clift, that sort of thing. He was pretty blase about things that were shocking back then. He said, "They liked sex the way they liked it. So what?"
We all like it the way we like it. If that's missionary with the lights off, so what? But if the scenario above is something you know you wouldn't enjoy, you shouldn't do it. Good luck.
There is this basic human phenomenon of "ethnocentricity" for lack of a better term... "Whatever I am into is 'normal' but anything beyond what I like is a sick perversion." "I am perfectly safe driving at 10 miles an hour over the limit, but that asshole driving 15 over is a real threat."
That is utter nonsense. Humans experience a huge, huge variety of sexual preferences. While pretty obsolete today, Kinsey's 1950ish studies showed that women were participating in, or fantasizing about participating in BDSM, anal sex, and even beastiality in numbers that totally shocked the mainstream psychology crowd. The book "50 Shades of Grey" is laden with intense BDSM and objectifcation of the woman that would have made it unpublishable in the mainstream 20 years ago... But it sold 65 million copies and holds the record for being the fastest selling paperback book of all time, and one of the best selling electronic book titles ever. Ask any woman who has read it and they will say "there are some parts that were too... (insert sadistic/objectifying/demeaning) here, but it also made me think about some primal things that I wish were more a part of my sex life with my partner."
It's really easy to simply dismiss any man who would do this as being angry and harboring some kind of unresolved resentment toward women. It's really easy to simply dismiss any woman who would allow this as having been horribly damaged by her father or some other abuse. Neither of these have any basis in sociological fact and they impose a judgment on others that says much more about the "judger" than about the "judgee".
If you have ever been involved with the kink community--not just BDSMers but the fetish community that includes things like FetLife, etc... Spend some time with some "kinksters"... I have... and what I have found among that crowd is that the ratio of weirdos to truly loving, caring people is slightly better than in the "general" population. There are more people that creep me the fuck out at work than there are at the last "munch" I attended--the slang term for a social gathering of kinksters/BDSMers.
Make no mistake... Sexual exploration, no matter how wild or kinky, should always be done between consenting, informed adults who care about each other and care about the experience the other person wants to have, or to avoid. If a man and a woman agree together, after some conversation about fantasies and boundaries, "man, it would be kind of hot to explore primal concepts like possession, control, submission... It would be erotic, in the context of our loving relationship to tinker around with your inner caveman, and my inner cavewoman with a little hair-pullin, pin-me-down-and-take-me sex." How is that sick, how is that an expression of past abuse or disturbing values?
If someone is pressured into it... that's different. If it's simply expected from a provider because "I'm the customer"... that's bad.
But if two people truly respect each other's innate dignity, and within the framework of that genuine respect both agree that a little rough play might be an erotic expression of things probably hidden away in our DNA, I say God bless 'em.
..... I was also struck by the judgmental tone of some of the posts on this thread, although I have found that even though this board is all about sex, some are VERY closed minded. Thanks for a great post on the fundamentals of sexual preference and practice.
Posted By: OmegaZap
There is this basic human phenomenon of "ethnocentricity" for lack of a better term... "Whatever I am into is 'normal' but anything beyond what I like is a sick perversion." "I am perfectly safe driving at 10 miles an hour over the limit, but that asshole driving 15 over is a real threat."
That is utter nonsense. Humans experience a huge, huge variety of sexual preferences. While pretty obsolete today, Kinsey's 1950ish studies showed that women were participating in, or fantasizing about participating in BDSM, anal sex, and even beastiality in numbers that totally shocked the mainstream psychology crowd. The book "50 Shades of Grey" is laden with intense BDSM and objectifcation of the woman that would have made it unpublishable in the mainstream 20 years ago... But it sold 65 million copies and holds the record for being the fastest selling paperback book of all time, and one of the best selling electronic book titles ever. Ask any woman who has read it and they will say "there are some parts that were too... (insert sadistic/objectifying/demeaning) here, but it also made me think about some primal things that I wish were more a part of my sex life with my partner."
It's really easy to simply dismiss any man who would do this as being angry and harboring some kind of unresolved resentment toward women. It's really easy to simply dismiss any woman who would allow this as having been horribly damaged by her father or some other abuse. Neither of these have any basis in sociological fact and they impose a judgment on others that says much more about the "judger" than about the "judgee".
If you have ever been involved with the kink community--not just BDSMers but the fetish community that includes things like FetLife, etc... Spend some time with some "kinksters"... I have... and what I have found among that crowd is that the ratio of weirdos to truly loving, caring people is slightly better than in the "general" population. There are more people that creep me the fuck out at work than there are at the last "munch" I attended--the slang term for a social gathering of kinksters/BDSMers.
Make no mistake... Sexual exploration, no matter how wild or kinky, should always be done between consenting, informed adults who care about each other and care about the experience the other person wants to have, or to avoid. If a man and a woman agree together, after some conversation about fantasies and boundaries, "man, it would be kind of hot to explore primal concepts like possession, control, submission... It would be erotic, in the context of our loving relationship to tinker around with your inner caveman, and my inner cavewoman with a little hair-pullin, pin-me-down-and-take-me sex." How is that sick, how is that an expression of past abuse or disturbing values?
If someone is pressured into it... that's different. If it's simply expected from a provider because "I'm the customer"... that's bad.
But if two people truly respect each other's innate dignity, and within the framework of that genuine respect both agree that a little rough play might be an erotic expression of things probably hidden away in our DNA, I say God bless 'em.
-- Modified on 2/1/2013 10:09:09 AM
It's all about consent.
Kind of amazing to read how judgemental folks are about this, especially considering the context of this particular message board.
If it's not for you, that doesn't make it "sick", it just makes it not for you.
Every action I took would be followed by, "I'm sorry. Really, I'm sorry. I'm so sorry."
As a submissive, my safe phrase would be, "Ow! What the hell was that?"
After all this is a market where guys are happy and willing to pay escort level prices to take matters in to their own hands!
Sometimes you just need another's perspective & experience to ponder in making a decision. I certainly learned a lot. You are all awesome!
The advice was taken to really talk it through with him & we were able to compromise & are looking forward to a mind blowing experiment.
Please don't judge him. He really is one of the sweetest, & most respectful gents I have met in the biz. Just curious to discover what the rave is all about (I think we can all relate to that) & yes, he agreed he watches too much porn. Lol!
Hugs-n-safe wishes everyone!
Leann
Posted By: heartsonfire1
The advice was taken to really talk it through with him & we were able to compromise & are looking forward to a mind blowing experiment.
That is what kink is supposed to be all about... the real intimacy that comes from revealing and accepting each other's fantasies, and the bond that forms as you talk through how to match up each other's limits, and fetishes.
Using pressure--financial, emotional, fear, etc. is the sick part... but sharing deep secrets with each other and then coming up with a mutually exciting experiment to try it out... And I am not just talking about safe words, I am talking about creating an atmosphere where things can be explored in real emotional safety... Nothing at all sick, twisted, or demeaning about that at all.
You go girl!
Being slapped in the face, having my hair pulled, being called grimy names & being choked would be crossing the line for me & could most likely end in reversed roles as fast as lightening. Lol!
....and choking hmmmm lightly but don't think I can cross that line with a client though.
Maybe he has a female boss he fantasizes about hate-fucking and wanted you to be her in his fantasy?
