Does anyone ever bring things for the provider for trade?  I have had some good responses (I always bring the right mount of federal reserve notes to cover what we agreed upon) when I have offered some nice jewelry and rides via my car service biz for some extra services.  Is this something that is seen as a positive or is it something I should stop.  Asking because I don't want to offend or upset providers.

I would say stop that crap. I am offended whenever I'm propositioned with a trade-for. My time is compensated with donations, I accept and love gifts but ultimately -my time is available for a donation and not a ride, jewlery, bottle of wine, laptop etc. I'm sure most ladies feel the same.

 I answered your question, assuming you aren't trolling. My original instinct as to reply simply with "lmao"

 Have a good Monday, Bob.

great feedback, thank you

I trade USD for pussies about 2~5 times a week.

END OF MESSAGE

Strictly speaking, traded goods/services are a lot easier to slip under the IRS radar as far as provider income.

The benefit to the client in some cases is that he can provide a greater value to the provider than the cash equivalent and still come out ahead, thereby benefiting both

That is how I see i

I don't see why they would be upset but because it is a black market business the trust level might be low.

A close friend of mine sold a used computer to my ATF at the time. She offered him services instead of cash, but he just wanted the cash so she paid. He wasn't surprised because he knew how I met her.

I've observed some of the goings back and forth on this board and don't want to start a pissing contest- that is not my point.  But you either don't understand the tax code or are operating with bad information.

How is bartering (traded goods & services) easier to slip under the radar than cash? Strictly speaking - to use your words - what you wrote does not make sense from an IRS perspective or civilian perspective.  Am I missing something in your meaning? Since your premise is predicated on going "under the IRS radar," I assume your meaning is to maybe not be totally honest with the IRS? If that is the case, not reporting cash or under reporting cash would be just as easy.

The IRS will consider the fair market value of any goods and services bartered and affix that value as income.  I suppose I can see your point from a client's perspective- if he has an old PC to get rid of or can fix her car, etc. it really costs him little or nothing (parts?).  But that PC could be donated to a charitable organization for a tax deduction thereby reducing his tax liability.  Giving it to a provider does not provide that option.  From a provider's perspective, any bartering would be assessed at fair market value and considered income.

But here's the bigger snag:  To be compliant with the IRS, Form 1099-B needs to be completed by each party, and I just don't see that happening.  In theory, yes, it could happen. But as a practical matter, I'd say it will never happen. (Just my speculation.)

So that takes us back to the beginning and sinks your premise.  Sorry.   My guess is that there are occasions where clients and providers offer each other deals for services, and when done, they're probably not reported as income by the provider.  That is truly UTR all the way

I'll bring up the so called 420 friendly adds !

THIS GUY!!!!!

Obviously it depends on whether there is any income reported.  But cash, especially if making a lot of it, ends up in bank accounts.  So when the IRS decides to make a case on unreported income they attempt to infer income from whatever sources they have, including banking activity.   Bartered trades are notoriously difficult to track unless they are large and frequent.

Bartered trade is taxable.  It's just that if someone wants to do it UTR, it's hard for the IRS to catch

something of a unique value at that moment in time.  Who needs 10 offers a day for a used lap top, an Ipad, etc?  You wouldn't get $50 at a pawn shop for that crap and who the hell in her right mind would accept a piece of used electronics (with all the potential viruses, malware, spyware) from a "slobbyist" as we clients are generally called lately?

If you can find something a provider needs at that moment, at a reasonable barter sure I would say it's win win...but cash will always be king.

Side note...any idiot can live off provider money as a comfortable all cash lifestyle without really putting it through the banking system.  Of course few can be bothered to live without convenience these days (swipe that card so you don't have to deal with money) so it's too easy to put it through the banking system and that's where ya get caught up with the prying eyes of the Feds and down to state and local LE.  I would suggest burying those fat stacks in the middle of the desert like someone who is properly "breaking bad."  No shit, I'm serious...find some place to store it.

Lastly, when you leave the above board economy and are making your living off the below ground cash economy for a few years, or decades...I've always wondered what the IRS thinks when all the sudden you resurface on the tax roll.  Any provider that has a key to that wisdom please feel free to PM me because I'm honestly interested.

FUCK ME!!  I was trying to be polite in my reply and tell you the way it really works and you come back with more bullshit.  Now I see firsthand why this board has turned into a shit hole.  You just have to have the last word regardless how wrong you are.

Two simple questions: 1) How well do you know the tax code and how the IRS operates?  2) Do you prepare multiple tax returns for multiple people in various lines of work?

In your original post you wrote about doing things under the radar.  Right there you note your intention is to skirt the IRS rules.  So, technically, any further discussion is meaningless because all you're doing is discussing ways to subvert tax laws.

Of course it matters if income is reported, but since your OP is about working UTR with respect to tax law, why not just tell people to under report or not report instead of getting into this whole crap about bartering?  And just because a person has money in a bank account doesn't mean the IRS can come knocking or will come knocking.  Especially if the person is filing tax returns and paying tax on any reported interest.  I highly doubt these ladies are banking hundreds of thousands of dollars. And if they are of that class, I think I'm pretty safe in writing that they likely have someone professionally preparing their taxes and that they wouldn't even be seeing clients who would think of trying to barter.  (Except maybe taking them on a vacation, etc.)  

Banking activity is not going to draw suspicion unless activity meets the $10,000 threshold (in most cases).

To your comment, "Bartered trades are notoriously difficult to track unless they are large and frequent." Your comment just does not make sense.  I offer this... once again:   The only way bartered goods and services can be tracked is if both parties complete a Form 1099-B.  Do you comprehend what this means?  This means BOTH CLIENT AND PROVIDER FILL OUT A FORM FOR THE IRS!!!  How likely is that to happen for a few hundred dollar piece of shit anything?  Seriously???

And to your last comment, "Bartered trade is taxable.  It's just that if someone wants to do it UTR, it's hard for the IRS to catch. "  Yes, as I informed you in my previous reply, the provider would have to claim the income.  But you're still missing the point here....   It is just as easy to hide a cash transaction as it is to hide a bartered transaction.  It's this simple:  Deny it and make them prove it.

When you don't know what you're talking about, it's best to not talk.  There is an old saying that I adhere to:  It's better to sit quietly and let them think you're an idiot than to open your mouth and prove it.   I hope to hell you are not preparing anyone's taxes....even your own... if this is how you think.

on a personal bank account big bro banker is still watching if you deposit more than a k or more in a banking cycle.  do it again, well they log it, do it again, well they log it, keep doing it and a SAR is reported eventually.  Yes you are correct that 10 k transactions are immediately reported as mandated by law but shit...a provider gotta earn and spend, am I right?

That's where old Jess may be stewed, screwed, and tattooed.  At least from word on the street

Yepppp,  

May be hard to explain that away as  contributions for Saving the Blind charity now, not that its done much good here.  

I saw some WI provider got busted for hobbying in a chicken coop,  do you think she was taking chickens as payment and how would the IRS treat chickens since they are food?

Naw. She was probably  writing  off the coop as an expense.  Maybe  even the goats and  chickens as marketing expense?  😆

That is some crazy shit.  Wisconsin?  I'd expect it in Kentucky or Arkansas . ....

If you bartered chicken or goats, what would you then fuck?

He seems kind of excitable.

Anyhow, some of the ways the IRS might get on a case include tip offs and arrests.  If someone is arrested for providing, you can bet the IRS goons will be checking against previous year filings.  If there are none or they seem inadequate, they might begin to wonder how someone lives with no visible means of support.

I'm sure he'll start screaming at me again for daring to have a different opinion than his.  But I guess it takes all kinds to make the world go around.

If a client has something that I want that I'd have to go through another process to pay for elsewhere, then that's just smart business, and completely legal.  I would never do that with someone I do not have a trusted relationship versus the value of the trade.  I do not take everyone up on their requests for photography services, for example.  However, I had a client who is a chef and I found out this amazing knife that he had that I wanted.  Still my favorite.  He got it for me at his discount and removed that off my rate when he came to see me.

Also, I have New Glarus in my studio.  You can only buy that beer in Wisconsin, and I'm not driving there.  However, when I know people who are there anyway, I'll ask.  They bring it to me, and it is deducted from the donation.

I can think of a zillion ways I would trade.  But I'm a savvy girl.  I don't buy what I don't want.  I say no to most everything.  But I know a good deal when I get it, and I fucking LOVE delivery!

Fwiw, Trin

You just moved up on my to do list

How does a simple question turn in to a tutorial on the fucking tax code. Do any of you people work?

Asking friends for help, something we all should do.  
I can agree with this.

Everything you wrote above would be legal.  The legality of doing those things wasn't really the topic of discussion.  The discussion was about bartering and reporting income to the IRS.  The OP was talking about going UTR for reporting income.  I realize we're splitting hairs here and most likely for no real reason, and I didn't want to get too into the weeds yesterday.  I'll try again.

In Trin's examples above, swapping a session with a photographer for a photo shoot would, technically, be bartering and would be reportable income for both.  Each would have to complete a Form 1099-B and value the goods/services.  Probably not going to happen, is it?

In the examples of having someone pick up beer in WI or getting a deal on knives, those would not be considered bartering and it would not be reportable income.  It's no different than if I sell you my car or an old computer.  I wouldn't report that as income.   (Note:  In yesterday's reply we used the example of swapping a used PC for a session.  I didn't want to get too technical, so I just went with that.  But I see clarification is needed.  That would not be reported...  unless I was in the business of refurbishing and selling used PCs.)

A fair litmus test for determining whether or not bartering of goods and services is reportable income is if they involve the parties' profession.  So the provider/photographer is a good example.  Or a dentist doing dental work in exchange for someone fixing his car, etc.  But if I sell my old used shit to a provider... not income.  This is just general discussion. Every situation is different, so please do not consider this to be either tax advice or legal advice.  (As if anyone would take anything in here that seriously.)

I'm done with this thread.  I hope I cleared up a few things.  If not, PM me

Souls_Harbor. He aligns with the WKs.

Maybe because some people come in here and spout off shit like they know what they're talking about but don't have a clue.  They act like know-it-alls when they are know-nothing-at-alls.

What is your problem with explaining the way things are?  If someone starts yapping about paying taxes and is spewing shit, what do you suggest?  Do nothing?

Do you have a job?  You are obviously reading and writing during work hours.

Yes, I have a job.  A good one. How do you think I pay to play here and with all my toys and vacations.  Speaking of which, did it occur to you that some people might be taking time off this time of year?  Or perhaps people work different hours?

FUCK!  Now I'm sounding like others.  Your comment is exactly why this board is going to hell.  What is appropriate discussion?  Good grief!  

Here's a suggestion:  If you don't like the conversation just move along.

-- Modified on 11/29/2016 11:56:55 AM

I don't know about that, but I just looked at his discussion threads, and I see exactly what you mean.  And they call you a troll or troublemaker?  No wonder people don't want to contribute here.  I'm torn between just giving up this board or ripping into him.  I'll probably just go away. I learned long ago that people like him are not even worth my time.  Guess that's what I get for trying to be honest and thinking I'm helping others.

Let get the point i have some  stuff I  am trying  to unload  , I like  stuff  so bring it on .   Make the arrangements, end of  story.   The only problem i have is if they end up charging ME more to cover losses on fake  crap .  
Just see the scenario now.  Hey this is my appraiser, he'll  be excusing himself now while i bang you.  

Your opinion or differing opinions don't bother me.  What bothers me is when people come in here and talk shit they know nothing about and act as if they're right.  I highly doubt the IRS is going to get involved with everyone arrested for providing, so I'll take you up on your bet.  You seriously don't think the IRS is going to look at every hooker's tax returns do you? Maybe if there is a large-scale operation that is busted in a sting that the feds have been watching it might happen.  But for, "...someone is arrested for providing, you can bet the IRS goons will be checking..." it's not going to happen.

You're just another person spouting shit you know nothing about and want others to believe what write is gospel.

I'm not screaming at you.  I am laughing at you and anyone who takes you seriously.

You and a few others in this thread have shown exactly why this board has gone to hell.  But, of course, in your opinion and theirs the problem is everyone else.  

You're right about one thing:  it takes all kinds....  there are those of us who know, and there are those who are clueless.

Many providers are too damn nice to say "thanks but no thanks".  CASH is king.  STUFF won't pay the mortgage, clothe the kids, pay the electric bill, or put food on the table.  Usually, if a lady needs some STUFF, she will ask you for it, especially if she knows your occupation.  Say her car broke down and you mentioned to her one time that you work in an auto mechanic shop. She will offer you a trade and very likely a good one.  

This brings to mind a certain Gent in Chicago....used to bring winter jackets for the lady instead of agreed upon donation.
NOT COOL

I always bring the cash agreed upon.  I just make an offer and am clear that it is not a big deal if they do not want to trade.

"But I guess it takes all kinds to make the world go around."

Everyone could get over the bunz hurt and live and let live.  Naw...that'll never happen.

Well, then I guess you moved up on mine too 😏

END OF MESSAGE

I would be very rich guy, had I kept all my used condoms.

Occasionally I have done something extra for a provider or given her gifts at certain occasions but I left it up to the provider to decide if and when to return the favor.  It's usually worked out well.