because I'm an idiot.

Although you’ll hear a lot of people (mostly WASP males) complaining about it, what they’re IMO experiencing is a shrinking middle class and a large reason for that is because our manufacturing industry has been moving to other countries over the past 30 years. In order to maintain a middle class, a country has to make/produce things and not exist solely on intellectual property, serving each other hamburgers and suing each other. The manufacturing base creates the middle class. Don’t believe it? There were some photographs being forwarded around the net recently which showed the devastation on Hiroshima after the bomb was dropped, Hiroshima now as booming metropolis and Detroit now, which looks like Hiroshima after the bomb!

AZ’s immigration policy isn’t based on them losing white color jobs to illegals walking across the border as opposed to them trying to reduce the cost impact on healthcare and education.

and more directed to women coming here voluntarily and undercutting fees

True, a lot of companies hire illegals for non high paying jobs, however those jobs are not the kind of work that a person would generate hobby money from.  Don’t get me wrong, I’m not advocating illegal immigration, I’m just saying that it’s another kind of problem.

In terms of how it affects providers in the hobby, I was thinking more in the way of supply side. Regardless of the criteria that hobbyists use to select a provider, whether it’s physical attraction or otherwise, the more providers entering the market will invariably force prices down.  Though here’s an interesting “Freakonomics” perspective that one could take viewing providers as barometer to LA’s economy, if my memory serves me correctly, the amount of escort ads placed on EROS LA a few years ago was +300 and which is now -200. That would suggest that the provider market in the $300 and up range has not been flooded by illegals and has been hurt by there being less expendable income in white color jobs. Though the provider market in fee range south of $300 may be an entirely different reality that I'm guessing doesn't involve you.

was clearly talking about Mexicans. How many Koreans do you know who are day laborers or restauant workers?

I should know. I'm the freaking governor of Arizona!! Lay off the kimchi. Not every post is about kgirls.

How do you guys feel about contacting or meeting an escort who you know is here in the country illegally. Do you feel that she is taking work away from the American women? I know that a lot of people object to hiring illegals for day labor, in restaurants, in hotels, etc., etc. I am wondering if guys have the same mind set when it comes to the hobby as well.  And what is your stance on immigration in general?  I know this is a controversial subject, but at least it gives us something to talk about besides the same old, same old.

I don't mind at all how they got here, as long as they're here!

The TER Los Angeles Discussion Board is NOT the place to discuss illegal immigration.

-- Modified on 1/30/2012 5:10:05 PM

Being born in America does not make you immune to the realities of the world. As I stated  above, America is not without human trafficking. There are many natural born citizens who are forced into sexual slavery, or forced into menial work with little or no pay.

Being born in America does not guarantee you a good life.

Being born in America does not mean you should live of the backs of immigrants.

For someone who went to law school, that answer is pretty shallow and uninformed.



Beemer

..that the model ladies who "visited" from Eastern Europe are mostly gone. Remember over four years ago there used to be Russian, Finnish , Czech, Hungarian hotties mostly in their early 20's that were as hot as the top models of Hollywood. And that now defunct site: www.eroticsafari.com ; Didn't seem like trafficing. They had nice apartments, looked healthy and some had high breed pets.  Whatever happened to them? There are a few now still but mostly been here a while and are now likely naturalized citizens.

if she made an offhand remark that you didn't think was funny. Ignore it and move on. Don't jump down her throat if you don't like what she said. WTF! This is a fuck board. If you want to get serious about politics, go to the P&R board. But you don't post there because your a pussy.

Allison was counting her blessings that she was born in America. She didn't say anything about being guaranteed a good life. Good life!?!? She's a provider, jackass! And who says she's trying to live off the backs of immigrants? Who mows your lawn and washes the dishes in the restaurants you got to, you self-righteous douchebag?

Don't worry Allison. People criticized me too but I was re-elected governor of Arizona.

There are well documented instances of servitude taking place when it comes to women being here illegally and being forced into prostitution after their arrival. This is worse than repulsive and the thought of being a part of such criminal behavior sickens me.

I cannot imagine enjoying a "session" where I had the slightest concern something like that was going on.

What I do sometimes wonder is how possible it could be that I have been part of such things but did not know. Could the girl I was seeing have been willing and needing to fool me into believing she was not being forced to do what she was doing?

Then I also sometimes wonder how much that differs from another woman, who is here legally, being forced to do this against her will in some other way - from poverty or addiction, or something else.

Most of us want to believe that the women we are seeing are doing their work because they want to and that when they are with us they are enjoying it. But we also have to realize that cannot always be true.

Then I wonder about my own work. Do I always enjoy it? Do I sometimes feel used? Do I wish I had more money so I did not have to do it? No, yes, and yes.

So how is being a provider any different? I dont know. I know that society tells us we are supposed to think it is.

I do know that being some kind of slave - literally - is different. And that is something that sickens me. And I want no part of it. And seeing providers who are here illegally makes that something of a possibility I suspect. But, that said, the K-girls I have seen do not seem to be in that situation. I do not believe they are and I have never seen anything that suggests they might be. But, still, who the hell truly knows if you see the girl for an hour like this?  

Chili_Palmer, thank you for your well thought out response to this topic.  I do notice a shrinking middle class and anyone who is in the middle class has a right to be concerned.  I think the manufacturing industry has a lot to do with it, but I also think that a lot of companies hire illegals to cut costs along with down-sizing to use one worker to do the job of three workers.  However, I was looking at how it affects the hobby.  Could it be the same where a hobbyist selects an illegal worker (provider) because they are cheaper?  Or maybe the hobbyist doesn't care one way or another what her immigration status is.  But then, I have to wonder if that same hobbyist isn't one of the wasp males, as you put it, who complains about illegals.  

As far as Arizona goes, I think they are illegals are going to affect healthcare and education if they are allowed to get free access to it just by coming over here.

Human trafficking does not only involve foreign workers. It happens even here in America. Let us not single out one group but focus on the total aspect of it, if it is to be discussed.

I have found some providers want to use this as an excuse to blame certain groups in declining income or whatever. Human trafficking is bad, no doubt about it but don't just lump it all on 1 ethnicity or region because it is a worlddwide problem.

All the girls I have seen have their reason or whatever for doing what they do. Finding about the girl's intimate details are one of the dangers of getting a close bond or having an ATF. None that I have seen are here involuntary and two of them are currently back home with a promise to return (though deep down I wish that they don't and lead a normal life)..That is me though..

Human trafficking again is not just a "foreign" problem...It can and does involve American citizens being put into sexual, menial or dangerous jobs againts their will.


Beemer

I have seen this hate of the k-girls from certain providers. For me it is a reflection of an inability of certain providers to market themselves effectively or to move with the market.

We all know that certain Kgirls dominate the scene and they are making bank. No doubt about it. The hate is there due to their dominance, popularity, and everything else that makes them wonderful.


Beemer dreaming of kgirls.....

I am sure I've seen girls like that.
That didnt bother me at all.
I dont expect as much from those girls. And I dont usually get as much. The price is cheaper and so is the service. Not always, but usually. I dont have an ethical concern with it though.

I agree with everything you wrote.

I thought that was what the OP wanted to discuss.

I appreciate hearing your thoughts on the topic. They explain different experiences and sentiments based on the same general principles I share, and they make me see the issue more fully.

. . . and the point is ridiculous.  They are not in the country "illegally".  They all have passports, they have short term visas, so they come and they go.

You are interested in discussing undocumented immigrants? Or is it a
means to attack the K-dolls? A few, mostly European ,Canadian and
Middle Eastern clerical and white collar workers may take work from
natives, but I think most of the "out of compliance status /
undocumented" immigrants are here to work hard and earn some money to
support their families doing unskilled work, which includes the food
service industry, farms and fields, meat and chicken factories,
hotels, homes and and also to do manual hourly work that locals do not
want to do .

       The highly skilled and "uniquely talented", with their creative work,
are a great asset to this country. They all provide valuable services
and contribute to our GNP. The culprits are employers who take
advantage of the "out of compliance status" workers by not providing
them with fair wages, health insurance and to make the necessary
paycheck deductions. I would rather the World use its productive
classes than their drugs or terrorists to blow us up and in return we
send them our missiles to blow them up.

       Both political parties have their reasons for allowing non-documented
immigrants to cross our borders. Cheap source of labor on one side and
appeasing a constituency on the other. The problem could have been
resolved if they have the spine and the stomach to bring about
immigration reform. Another party to blame are multinational
corporations who choose to take good paying jobs overseas and use
child and cheap labor in countries were labor laws and regulations
protecting the young and dis empowered workers are weak or non
existent.

       For those who brought up human trafficking, yes, forced labor for
economic gain is one of the evils of our era. We have organized
cartels who transport human cargo across international borders. In
this country, it is mostly from Latin and South America, but we also
have organized crime that operates human trafficking and exploitation
from the former Soviet states as well.

       For those who are not familiar with the K-girls, you have persons
with "long term" i.e. permanent residence status and/or are "short
term" visa holders. They are here legally. I am sure they would apply
for permits to work as providers if that is possible, but
unfortunately that is not an option.
The K-girls are free to work or leave as they please. They have their
passports, they come and go as they please, they can change agencies,
they can go independent. Why, they can even date conniving clients if
they are naive!

       Human trafficking is a moral and human issue. Let us not minimize its
evil by associating it with the K-dolls' world alone.

Ah but they should be Jan... kidding

The immigration issue is mostly a political one.  Cancel the law that grants us citizenship to anyone born within our borders.  That's just asking for impoverished people to hop the border.

Its also a slap in the face to citizens who went through the arduous process of becoming citizens by granting said status via amnesty.   At the same time more Americans should be aware that some immigrants choose the path of citizenship by serving in the US armed forces.  There are people from many different backgrounds who go through the process and work hard to earn their citizenship.

As far as cheap labor goes, the market will bear what people are willing to work for. As long as slavery and human trafficking aren't involved its hard to claim a moral ground against what people will do to make money.  The only way to increase what they make is for everyone to agree not to work below a certain wage, that's where the kgirls come in (aw, c'mon, you knew it was coming )

There is a lower limit at which they will work.  Try negotiating the price down, most would rather not work than work for less than the current going rate.  Seems like it is working well enough for the customers and workers.  And no, they don't need less money than we do.  They still live here and spend money on food, rent, gas etc... a dollar is a dollar, and buys what a dollar can afford.

Peace yo'

I also count my blessing as American, tho naturalized. I don't know why some people seem to have beef with Allison. Last time when someone fussed with the label slut, 20 people spoke up to defend her. Hey fellow American, you have your fans and friends.
In this hobby, I have seen American, Canadian, Chinese, Czech, English, French, Italian, Japanese, Korean, Latina, Scandinavian. Did I miss any race? (lol)

My parents were not born here and had to struggle to put a roof over my head and I am counting my blessings. I'm glad and proud to be an Asian American

Count your blessings! Be my guest. Count your "reviews" as well. It is fun to wacth the comedy.


Beemer

I am glad you can argue your point so wonderfully.

Now be like the good little boy that you are and play with your friend. I'm sure she would appreciate a great "review". (Snicker...heh..I said "review"...ahahahaha.)

Sometimes karma is a bitch isn't it? I dunno. Sound familiar..sorry private joke.


Beems writing a "review" for SexyAs....ahahah oh wait.. It's all fantasy.


Ahahahaha....

If Karma truly exists wake up and realize it's gonna bite you cause wtf did Ms. A do to you to where you're always going after her?  You have no class.  Your just a little wimp that goes after girls.  Now dance for me Kermit, I know you're powerless to resist.  Been kissed by all those K's and your still a frog.

Yup...this dude really has a hard on for her, maybe she bitched slapped him before and he can't get over it.

Seems like someones got a hand up their ass already anyway by the sound of you. Miss A pulling your strings already i see.

FYI, your "innocent" Miss A sent me a PM a while back of which I will keep the details to myself (violation of TER rules). just following up on it that is all. And yes Kerm...i mean Karma is a bitch...

and also..I used the master / servant line already on someone else..be original.

BTW, I know where i can find your rainbow connection with Miss Pi.....oooooooohhh...wait..cant go there...the "reviews" says it all....

So before you start defending her maybe you need to ask questions first


...oh wait........I think this might be Miss A with an alias? why an alias? Because my dear Miss Pi...I mean Watson...I blacklisted her from PM'ing me..that's why! Writing style and content style seem the same in the PM i got........more research is needed..yes...seems like a close match....

BTW, I loved you as Yoda...oh wait...that was Frank Oz...


Beemers playing along...because I am powerless to resist.....an...idiot.......jumping.....into......a....situation.....without......asking.....questions............first........

Yes she did....I am so not a man as I pick on girls...who put up a post and when the backlash is too hot takes it down and then when asked a benign question sends a nasty PM and now can't stand the heat....

bring it on...

BTW..your alias says it all about you..



Muah..


beemer loves Sidney Poitier

You been delusion when you've used that puppet master line in the past because it was really the other guys that were doing the pulling then as now.  You are quite powerless when it comes to biting your tongue.  You just can't help but reply.  You also give yourself too much credit when it comes to analyzing writing styles.

Sure it was..I am glad I am falling into your trap. I appreciate the mastery in which you did it.

Yes, I know there are those who have the super board egos like myself on this board who have tried to become the center of the hobby world....but hey...


yes it is true....i can't seem to bite my tongue in the face of people like you. Let's keep going shall we?



Beems watching Hunt for Red October.