...with other women?  It's more likely that he doesn't want you to contact them because they might be jealous that he's seeing someone else.

So maybe the guys on this board can help me better understand this mentality... I recently received an e-mail from a gent who was willing to be screened but didn't want to use any references, even though he's seen many providers. He said he doesn't like to discuss other providers. While I understand not wanting to kiss and tell, I hope hobbyists understand that references are much of the way we providers keep each other safe! Even if I verify someone via employment, I still don't know if they are respectful, won't try to short me, have any STD's, have horrible hygiene, etc... (unless he's been blacklisted for something, of course). References from recent, reputable providers can tell me all of that, and as such I understand why many providers won't see newbies who lack references. If a potential client isn't LE and isn't a total schlemiel, why would anyone not want to use references? Is it wrong that such a statement set off a red flag and made me wonder if he had something to hide?
Thanks all, stay safe and screen screen screen...

In my experience a gent who isnt new and has references but wont give them is 0ne or two or maybe all of the following. 1.LE, 2.did something unsavory to his references,  doesn't want his atf to know hes dipping his toes in the water, or is seeing a gal of a vastly different price point (either you or his references)
but I do reserve the right to be wrong Cant wait to hear the male pov

If you are going to get nailed by LE, you won't be able to avoid it.  What I gleen from the LE camp is that they don't like pimps, pandering or human traffic-ing.  That is . . .  Any situation where someone is NOT happy doing what they are doing or you don't get to keep all your rewards (you earned it).  Any time they get wind of a usurious situation they step in.  " Girl's gotta make a living . . ."  
  Next subject: You're a woman.  (Curiosity killed the cat.)  You just had to drive by to check out where he worked. Ooops!  He saw you.  
  Next subject:  Other providers are your competitors.  So it's this hot guy, he doesn't really make any issue about the finances and brings these thoughtful gifts that surprise you and make you realize "he gets me".  He's lookin' for a regular kinda of a thing.  Guess what?  Your Competitor isn't givin' that up.   Your competitor will tell you what a horrible man he is to insure she KEEPS that ONE!
  Ultimately if you look at this as a business there are A LOT more provider hours available than hobbyist to consume, so, all the caveats of a competitive market apply.  Don't TYHLS because he'll be her treasure and not yours.  You can marginalize him, but in the end she's got him and you DON'T.  

of all the recent snark on this board. I asked a valid question and don't need an an answer that sounds more like an insult (besides being devoid of accuracy). Oy gavult.

-- Modified on 2/25/2014 7:43:17 PM

All other things being equal, of course.

Jonathan

But to the topic at hand.
At first I didn't give references but in time I realized that it was a necessity for everyone to feel comfortable so I give them the info they needed. Now I have ran across a few instances where the person who gave the reference would call me to let me know that so and so called and she gave them a good reference about me. But they would sneak in a few jabs such as “I gave so and so a reference, have a good time....but not too good of a time” or “Oh, so you're two timing me, huh?” But all comments were made in a joking manner. It was a tad uncomfortable....
Also when I'm going to Vegas and I'll ask for a reference from a lady, then she'll find out that I'm in town and I'll get the “Hey hon, let's get together when you're in town”. And the texts that come...
But I will NEVER use my ATF as a reference. It'll create problems...believe me.

SCHLEMIEL, oy vay, I haven't heard that one in awhile!!!  LOL!!!

Don't waste time with him.  Stick to your high standard and if a guy can't comply just leave it at no thanks.
Life is to short, keep moving

or worse, if you hobby actively, you've probably been with escorts who are  competitive and may not be the best to use as a reference, however, you've probably been with other providers who are total professionals who have no problem giving a reference for you. Of course this schlemiel could join P411 and not have to be such a knucklehead.  

Whether he's hiding info from you, or from so other girl, he'd definitely trying to keep something private.  What he's hiding doesn't matter or why, it's drama you don't need to be involved in.  He's not the only guy out there, so I'd say pass.  

References are the best way to determine if someone is truly legitimate.   So he's willing to screen but not let you know references?  Very suspicious.  If he does not have a P411 or DC-ID and wants to play without references.  Bad sign.  Personally, since I'm not a 60min, once and never repeat guy, my refs would probably say nice things.  For all the reasons you list, are the reasons sharing references is so important.  

Didn't stay remotely on topic, written like an English lit major after a bottle of scotch, and managed to be insulting and condescending to a simple question. Don't hurt yourself getting off that high horse.

My guess is either:
1) he wouldn't like what they said
2) he's pretending to be someone he isn't, has he sent mail from the personality that has the references?  Meaning if it's a ter handle he's using to authenticate, has he pmed you FROM THAT ACCOUNT? Or has he only emailed you representing that he is that TER id?

The note:  I always email and ask the ladies I would use for references if they will refer me before I give then name and contact info to the lady asking for them. It's just common courtesy and it seems it's always appreciated.

Did he give his user name handle?
Any white list  
has TER user?
A  similar situation  happened  to me once...  The  guy  do not want I
contact his ATF   
I did  not ...but he gave me other  ladies to contact ..
no idea why..... She probably   be up set..
I have no idea   what kind of boundaries guys have with ATF
But some people are  cronic addict to DRAMA  
Even this hoobie should be drama free  
How  funny the ATF  really think they are exclusive  .. laughing..

Well, I don't really believe he's paranoid. Just has something to hide. However, if he is paranoid, you don't need the drama and the headaches. Either way, sounds like the safe bet is to let him go on his merry way without you.  

I would pass on the dude for various reasons mentioned by others but primarily because he is not willing to provide what you feel makes you comfortable. He will probably be a disapointment during your time together.  

In the BBFS thread makes it clear that he is a little preachy here.

That it can range from, "Good client, on time, respectful, good hygiene" to "likes to do (insert favorite activity) during session," but rarely is it more than that.

Thanks for all the responses and confirmation of my red flags. I'm keeping my screening standards high and hope everyone else is, too! (Moreover, not only was I not given a handle or any other information- as soon as I inquired why this gent didn't want to give references, he stopped responding... yeah.)
xoxox
H