...Had an overnight with a gentleman that I had met once awhile ago- and was reconnected with just last week. He and I saw each other Thursday, for 1 hour- all transactions went as they should and then we had scheduled to see each other Saturday for an overnight.  At the end of our overnight, he decided that he did not wish to pay.  He instead believed I should be "out of the business" and he wanted to be together.  I said that that was not an option and that my assistant would be calling him in the morning on Monday to discuss how to take care of the time spent together.  Since then, he has decided that hiring a lawyer would be in his best interest to scare me away.  Any ideas on what I should do?  He is afraid I will "out" who he is or his family name- which I would not do.  Payment or not.  I am just not the person that has interest in publicly announcing someones secret life.  Please advise...as I am a bit clueless and dumbfounded.  It has caused me unneeded stress and anxiety.  Ridiculous people like this make it hard to have fun hobbying; ).

Thank you!
Best,
Kristen

-- Modified on 9/23/2010 5:20:19 PM

Dear dumbfounded clueless escort,

   I suppose you had a long work experience as a cab driver, seeing that you expected to collect your fare after the ride. Just joking, but getting paid in advance is the first class in Escort 101.
   I am sorry this has caused you unneeded stress and anxiety; that said, you will neither be compensated for mental duress nor emotional duress.
  Let me advise you that in the future you might consider collecting your fee in advance, much like the attorneys who offer to represent you.    
  Who is your assistant?  If this was an attempt to scare the deadbeat it seems it scared him into an attorney’s arms, and that is one trick he will have to pay for. But the authorities are more forgiving of a philanderer than a muscled collection agency. If your assistant assaults the deadbeat you would certainly be implicated in the crime.
  I would suggest you forget all possibility of payment and disappear before his lawyer friend contacts his cop friends and you have a visit that will likewise produce no revenue. Sometimes you have to know when to cut you losses and cut your bait and go fishing for a new fish who does not keep his wallet on a steel chain.

    So what else can I advise? Don’t know? Please excuse me if I made a few jokes. I know this situation is annoying as hell but that is the nature of the business, all business has this element of bastards who screw us and don't want to pay. They used to say that if you want to go into business of any kind, first take a hundred dollar bill and burn it. That will get you used to losing money because every business has moments of loss. I hope I got a few smiles out of a lousy day but there is no legal remedy here other than laughing at life which can sometimes be cruel and unusually crass. Best wishes in any event.

 modified to remove uncalled for comedy and to add my apology if I was not understanding and sympathetic enough



-- Modified on 9/24/2010 7:28:03 PM

She also specified "legal counsel", not the moderator or a law student.

The simple rule is that courts do not enforce illegal contracts.
This is a lose-lose situation.

If you have been contacted by an attorney you should inform us of the details.
If you have not, you might "wait and see".

You do not say if the sessions were at your residence.  (Your TER profile lists
"incall/outcall".  If they were at your residence, or he otherwise knows where
you live, then your security may be a potential problem.

Crazy clients (and ex-boyfriends) have punctured car tires and worse.  
Seems best to move on and learn from the unfortunate experience.

Out this SOB to other providers via the various provider only sites that screen guys.

No sense in letting him pull this again.

I knew there was a reason why I don't visit this board as often as I used to.  Fess up LB, you do get compensated by the word. My advice to the OP, move on, you've learned a very important lesson.
No matter who the client, always take of the business side of the session first.

-- Modified on 9/24/2010 7:29:48 PM

I have simply walked away from the situation as the drama of it was not worth any amount of gift or "donation," if you will.  I just thought how ridiculous that this guy has a lawyer in the middle of this whole thing negotiating what he would like to now consider "private time"  although he had filled out in complete a Reservation Form on my web page specifically noting time desired to be spent with me as 24 hours, along with making the deposit towards the 24 hours.  
I hope in this case that the lawyer at least got to have a good laugh and get paid for some petty work.

Now, in regards to whatever rant & rave LB went into - your advice was nothing of the sort.  It was a rambling of words that were not only a waste of time, but based on a small bit of a story which I had asked for some friendly advice.  Of course we all have a sense of humor, but are you just plain bored?  I can understand that as well- but even the heading of your post shows that you evidently have some misplaced anger stored up somewhere.  Either way, this is not the situation where you are being paid word by word and in the end if you were trying to at least look like a lawyer ~ or seem like an ass, your post simply was as ThePeopleRule said, a comedy routine.

Whatever floats your boat.  
So, are you a recently graduated legal student LB?

Have a wonderful day everyone - thank you for the advice and I suppose that if I were indeed looking for a good laugh or to re-up on my sense of humor, I do not think I would be posting in The Legal Corner on TER.  

Best,
Kristen

Yes, LB.... this is exactly what should have been posted originally-


to  KristenK
from Legal_Beagle
sent 9/24/2010 8:20:28 AM
subject Looking for some advice from some friendly legal counsel...

here is an appended note--
So what else can I advise? Don’t know? Please excuse me if I made a few jokes. I know this situation is annoying as hell but that is the nature of the business, all business has this element of bastards who screw us and don't want to pay. They used to say that if you want to go into business of any kind, first take a hundred dollar bill and burn it. That will get you used to losing money because every business has moments of loss. I hope I got a few smiles out of a lousy day but there is no legal remedy here other than laughing at life which can sometimes be cruel and unusually crass. Best wishes in any event. LB

thank you!!

of course she could sue for breach of contract

      The contract as the lady described it was for an “overnighter.” This and similar long term arrangements are agreements where the oft-heard lament “ I was just paying for her time” is not a facade. The gentleman has bargained for you to spend the entire night with him and you have agreed to do so for a set price. That, leaving aside for the moment what you did during the night,  is a perfectly legal personal services contract.

      Now let’s look at the objections raised by our learned colleagues.

    Legal Beagle says “You are practicing an illegal trade and you expect the law to enforce an oral contract for things both oral and I would assume vaginal?”

      Well, it does not matter that the contract is not in writing. There is no statute of frauds for personal service contracts.

      The PeopleRule says “The simple rule is that courts do not enforce illegal contracts.” In fact, there is no such simple rule. Many illegal contracts may be enforced depending on the circumstances. The rules in this area are quite complex.

     Shudaknownbetter says “legal remedies you have none.”
No, that is not correct either bc you can sue to recover for breach of contract.

        The flaw in the reasoning of these legal minds is their assumption that because you provided sexual services during the overnight, the entire contract is unenforceable. That is not the law – only that part of the consideration that is malum in se illegal is the part for which you may not recover damages. The rest of the contract is enforceable, so long as a fair allocation between legal services and illegal can be made.
 
      So, for example, if you had contract for an 8 hour overnight with me, I probably would have fallen asleep after about 15 minutes of illegal playtime. So if I welched you could never recover for the value of that 15 minutes.

       But what does it say on your website – “rates are $350 an hour?” I’m still liable for the remaining 7 hours and 45 minutes at this rate.

     Now this is not to say that a jury would see it this way – get the wrong jury and they may refuse to allocate good consideration v bad. And of course there is the practical problem of admitting to illegal conduct under oath-you may be arrested when the jury returns that winning verdict.

And there reality that the attorney would charge you more to litigate the case than you could recover, so you would have to pay your winnings over to him.

     But the correct answer is “yes, you could sue for breach of contract -it’s just  not a very good idea.”

      Isn't the law wonderful?

We run a very strict rule with overnights & extended multi-hour appointments. You can send me a private email & I'll be happy to discuss a few ways we avoid these types of situations.

[email protected]

Gemma

Although it is safer to request the donation after the fact, it opens the risk of a scam or some kind or a runner.  No, if you try to stop them, YOU could be guilty of unlawful restraint or even kidnapping.   They walk & you are out the donation.  Wave the goodbye & put them on your DNS list.

In my experience, most ladies request the donation in advance the first few times or even every time if not a frequent guest.   After several meetings MY individual lady friends are happy to pick up my donation after.  (She has a chair for my clothes, next to her dresser.  As at home, I empty my pocket junk onto the dresser.  I have the correct donation separated, it goes on the dresser with my pocket junk.  When I redress, the donation is left behind.   Somewhere in the back & forth of dressing, bathroom, etc the donation disappears.  But there is a risk to the lady that her companion of the hour might decide to grab the donation back & run...  planning on ending the relationship.  

You can not force him to pay (possibly by violence or threat of same...  several crimes), blackmail him (another crime), publically "out" him (could be construed as a blackmail attempt) & is unprofessional.  This last would surely destroy your business where you need client's trust to screen them properly.  

You have the option of reporting him to various provider services as one who refused to pay.  This will reduce the risk of another provider being taken...  though he may still be able to scam the unwary new providers.   If he's done this once, he will do it again.   Jerks like this make it hard for the rest of us guys.

Best wishes,  skb

I know of a a provider of similar services.  She was one crazy stupid bitch.  She did not believe that the services provided by an "escort" were the same as a prostitute.  Like I said, she is not the brightest bulb in the box notwithstanding her self proclaimed Phd, etc.  Well, she got into a fight with another older whore, (and someone else) and she was outed.  A web site about the truth of AT, etc.  Well.  she then (I think) got some lawyers who I assume were previously paying her for services to file a Federal Court case and some sort of copyright matter.  Anyway, she attached the web site images, etc. so the whole world could see her real name, the "professional" name, I believe photos, and the allegations were all there.  The bottom line is AT (as far as I know and I have not looked into this in a while) lost a default matter concering the web site with the "internet domain commission" or whatever it is called and I think lost a default judgment in the court case, but all of her dirty laundry is out there for everyone to see.

So the bottom line, you learned a lesson, don't trust anyone, some guys are pieces of crap, just prevent it by collecting up front.  Oh yes, never get on a high horse, and think the law is on your side, it will not be when it comes to money and sex.  Also, there are many areas where equality of sexes just does not exit.

modified to remove initials of provider--

-- Modified on 9/25/2010 7:41:17 AM

A lot of states have statutes that say if the contractor is unlicensed he cannot recover for any services he renders.

   And of course all "answers" on this Board are subject to the existence of any statute in the state where the events occurred that says otherwise.

if the city she's working in requires an escort license and she doesn't have one, i would think she's sol.

A bit of levity tends to reduce the tension, particularly regarding issues on this Board.
LB's underlying advice was sound and helpful.
His tenure has made this Board more interesting.

I am not a lawyer. This is not legal advice.

Just something to think about and it's friendly!

Wherever you live in California you must have an escort license to be an legal escort. This will be a city code.

IF YOU DONT HAVE AN ESCORT LICENSE, you may want to let the incident go, forget about it and move on. The rest of this post is of no value either.

But... if you DO have such a license or work under a business who does, you may want to keep reading.

You didn't give very many details about his hiring a lawyer, but that may be a scare tactic. He may be counting on your fear of exposing yourself for "prostitution"

California law under Penal Code 647(b) PC
Prohibits engaging in the act of prostitution, and
Prohibits offering or agreeing to engage in a sexual act (otherwise known as “solicitation”)

Assuming you did neither, and simply made an arrangement to provide your time as an escort, you may have a valid claim.

Is it worth it to pursue?

To get lawyers involved on both sides, no it's not. But, it may be worth calling his bluff, ESPECIALLY since he HAS a lawyer. You see, a good lawyer will tell the client when to be pragmatic over principled, and when to cut their losses short.

So, what you might do is use the Small Claims Court approach, which allows you to sue for up to $7500 without lawyers.

Better than that, California allows you to request confidential medition first, before submitting an actual Small Claim. This is where the LA County Dept of Consumer Affairs contacts him directly after you have ask for confidential mediation for a dispute of no payment for services of a legal escort. i.e. your time.

If he sees you actually taking a real step toward court, which means exposure for him, he may quickly reevalute with his lawyer, (who might not be able to be directly involved at that point)

If you let it be know that you will "settle" for a reduced amount, his lawyer may just tell him: "Pay her! Let it go. Move on."

This way, you could have SOME compensation given to you without ever having to file an actual small claims case or going to court or hiring a lawyer

This is just an overview and one idea.

I AM NOT A LAWYER. (unfortunately I have spend almost $50 over the last few years in lawyers fees and have learned a shitload in this area.)

It will cost you nothing to go on California's Self Help Website and learn all about what you can do.


California Courts
Self-Help Center

County of Los Angeles
Department of Consumer Affairs

Whatever you decide to do, best of luck!



HalfHour

Thank you so much for the advice, I will do just that and go from there.  You all have helped me think this through without jumping to make irrational decisions.  I do appreciate the time and effort you all have gone to in order to explain both sides.  

Best,
Kristen Klein

keep in mind that any legal action will be a public record with your given legal name, probably with your address attached as well.

I don't know whether the provider name you use is your given name or not, but if this jerk doesn't have your real name yet, he would certainly have it after being served with a small claims court notice, for example.

Thanks so much for that (sorry to sound a bit snippy) obvious advice, but my name is not the one that is in need of being concealed in this matter- whatsoever.  It is this hobbyist that holds a very well known family name that he wishes to conceal that is worried about HIS name being revealed in any manner- whether it be on these forums, any websites relating to his "hobbying" so on and so forth.  So, in the end, I have made my decision wisely and I just want to thank everyone for all of the very helpful advice.  This guy is an idiot, to put it very lightly.  By bringing a lawyer into the middle of our agreement in order to simply scare me off has been his most thoughtless move yet- that, aside from not paying for time spent as originally agreed upon.  I will keep anyone interested updated, just PM me and let me know if you care to know any further details.  

"A fool to pleasure, yet a slave to fame." ~ Alexander Pope

I learned the same lesson as you, Hidden Hills, the hard way.  I was invited for an overnight and was seeing dollar signs in my dreams all night.  In the morning the gentleman paid me for one hr.

When I told him that was not the rate for an overnight, he commented that after the first hr I could have left at any time and I must have stayed with him because I really liked him.   I was pissed.

I was as mad at myself as I was at him.  

So from now on I get my money upfront and if I am travelling or being invited to an overnight, I get something in advance so I know the gentleman is serious before I even arrive.

I'm sorry it happened to you, but I bet you dont let it happen again,  I know I wont.