IL house bill HB 6462 has passed both the senate and house and is awaiting the governor's signature. The Cook County State's Attorney is pressing hard for this to become law as soon as possible since the vast majority of this bill protects under-age prostitutes from being charged as criminals. As originally intended, this bill was a noble effort to protect minors from trafficking and abuse by adults. Unfortunately, the End Demand advocates pressed forward with their agenda to make adult prostitution a class 4 felony on the first offense. The bill as written targets all facets of the hobby and makes all parties felons upon conviction.

A link to the bill and the relevant sections for adult offenses is included. Without a massive campaign to enlighten the governor of IL, this bill is certain to pass within a short period of time.

I chose this handle for its implied irony so imagine my surprise when Foodyguy informed me that Poland did indeed have pirates. Talk about bursting my bubble. Still, it rolls off the tongue well, don't you think?

It seems that our lawmakers aren't concerned about housing our soon-to-be newest felons or they didn't bother reading the entire bill. My money is on the latter. Besides, it's not their problem and they look good for the upcoming election. Ditto on the Gov. Ditto on the Crook County Sheriff who's chomping at the bit to launch new stings the moment it's signed into law.

correct me if I am wrong, but in the time of Pirates, Gadansky had not yet been enlarged from a small fishing village into an industrial port...

A class four is the least serious felony class, however in Illinois it may hold on conviction a sentence of 1 to 3 years incarceration and fines up to 50 thousand dollars...

Polish Pirate? I thought Poland was virtually landlocked except for a small fishing villiage, but thanks for the nice post!  One wonders how the state is going to find housing for a whole new class of criminals?


-- Modified on 7/28/2010 11:35:11 AM

I've always seen it that way, from what I have read, and heard from ladies that were nabbed there.  Considering the political corruption there, it is no surprise that those same politicians would make hobbying there a felony punishable with significant jail time...except for themselves, of course.

As long as people have unfulfilled sexual desire there will be demand for prostitution. So what are the End Demand people gonna do? Neuter us all and end demand for sex period? Actually I think I have a pretty good idea. They should start an information campaign that convinces everyone that the way to end trafficking is to fuck constantly, everyone fucking everyone else all the time (for free of course) and then no one in his right mind would pay for sex, let alone pay for sex with a poor trafficking victim. That's right, spread your legs ladies and do your part to end exploitation! Put that in your pipe and smoke it you soulless self-hating sex-negative psychos. The way these people use the issue of underage prostitution to push their agenda is shameful. If solicitation is a felony than many good people are going to have their lives ruined for engaging in a private sexual act with another consenting adult. Disgraceful.

when I read the link its look like the class 4 Felony charges are for people associated with under age prostitution or if its their second offense.

I saw no where stating it applies to Adult providers..

It looks to me its still about Child prostitution..
I support this Bill if its about Child prostitution and thats why it will be a Law sooner then Later..

Or may be I am reading it wrong....

Breakdown of the law changes from the End Demand website.

WOW!  This is shocking!!  Let’s see; here’s a list of some of my clients’ careers:  all respectable men, and all with respectable lives.  

Neurologists
Urologists
Surgeons
Investment Bankers
Real Estate Magnates
Construction business owners ~ and workers
Pharmacists
Students working on their masters and/or doctorate degrees
Retired successful businessmen
Truck drivers
Electricians
Politicians
Lawyers

Under this law, the above would all become “pimps.”   And also be going to prison for 1-3 years and charged up to $50,000 in fines.  First offense!

Am I willing to go to prison for 1-3 years and be fined up to $50,000 for one hour of providing the gentleman whose wife of 30 years died of cancer and who is lonely and wants a little companionship on occasion at my hourly fee of $300.00?   I don’t need to be in investments to tell you that is NOT a very good return for my money!  Or my companionship!  And again, this would be for a first offense if convicted.  And you will be convicted.

And what are all the sly and cunning coppers going to do if this law passes?  They’re going to be out of jobs.  How many ladies and gentlemen are really going to risk these outcomes?  Would you?

This is just plain wrong!  The governor should veto the legislation and return the bill for further work;  i.e., REMOVE the felony and pimp provisions and punishments for adults 18 years of age and over as long as no minors are involved here.  

Wow IL must have for profit prisons.  Guess you have to fill them up some how

End Demand worked furiously over the summer to add the adult language that was in the now-dead HB 6195 bill. HB 6462 is supposed to be about juveniles and keeping them safe but End Demand is hell-bent on passing it with the added adult language. They are fanatical about this.

An effort is underway to convince the governor to veto some or all of the added adult language in those sections I pointed out in my OP. No other state considers a first offense to be a felony so if nothing else, there's a small argument to be made for the punishment being disproportionate to the offense. It's a weak argument obviously but time is running short. August 24 is the drop-dead date.

that Obama wants to put the Al Queda detainees in but now it'll be full of sex addicts. What better way to punish terrorists than have prostitutes flashing and mooning them?

Dear Gov,

Before you sign this bill, you might want to contact all the representatives and senators who passed this before you and make sure they're not seeing prostitutes on the side, you know? I doubt they read all those trivial subsections or they wouldn't have passed it, ya think? I'd hate to see our esteemed legislators rotting in a hell-hole prison because they were a little too horny for their own good. And Gov, better check with your friends and family members too because the last thing you need this election season is a sex felon in the clan, eh? Think that might hurt your campaign just a little?

Sincerely,

Your tentative constituent

A sex prison. All of the inmates would have to be in solitary confinement 24/7. Think of what it would cost to run a place like that.

The crimes of “prostitution” and “solicting a sexual act,” IRS 11-14 and 11-14.1, all remain misdemeanors. These are the crimes committed when a gal performs sexual acts for money on a guy, or when either offers to do so.

     What is changed is the crime of “soliciting FOR a prostitute.” Section 11-15 now indeed makes this crime a class 4 felony on the first offense. But reading the caption in conjunction with the body of the statute shows that this statute is intended to address a pimp or other third party arranger, not the participants in the sexual act itself:

Section 11-15 Soliciting for a prostitute
(a) Any person who performs any of the following acts commits soliciting for a prostitute:
(1) Solicits another for the purpose of prostitution;
or
(2) Arranges or offers to arrange a meeting of persons for the purpose pf prostition; or
(3) Directs another to a place knowing such direction is for the purpose of prostitution.
(b) Sentence. Soliciting for a prostitute is a Class 4 felony.

       Now Section 11-15(a)(1) if read without reference to the caption and in isolation could indeed be read to cover the traditional hobby situation. But it will not be so read by the courts bc if you did that, then section 11-14.1 would be rendered meaningless since that statute already provides that soliciting a sexual act is a misdemeanor. The rules of statutory construction forbid construing a second statute as making the same conduct a felony. Finally, 11-15(a)(1) cannot be read in isolation from 11-15(a)(2) & (3) which both address third party arranger situations. The law governing construction of statutes requires that subparts of a statute be read in harmony with each other.

     Putting it all together, two party hobbying encounters remain a misdemeanor. But the law has always hated pimps and their ilk and that is what the new bill addresses by making first time offenses a felony.


     Is this bad for agencies? Yes. Is this bad for bookers? Yes. Is this bad for organizers of meets and greets? Probably. But it does not change the law for the  average TER guy or gal.

This bill is not the end of the world and it's severity is being over dramatized.  I am a criminal defense attorney and I was a prosecutor for a long time.

This is the deal:

The 2 laws that virtually ALL providers and hobbyists are charged under remain MISDEMEANORS!

720 ILCS 5/11-14 "Prostitution" is unchanged and remains a class A Misdemeanor.  This is the statute under which you are guilty, as the provider, just for making the agreement.

720 ILCS 5/11-14.1 "Solicitation of a Sexual Act" becomes a Class A misdemeanor instead of Class B.  This is the mirror statute to charge hobbyists.

Now to dispel some misinformation:

720 ILCS 5/11-15 "Soliciting For a Prostitute" indeed does become a Class 4 Felony BUT this DOES NOT APPLY TO HOBBYISTS OR PROVIDERS!  It applies to third parties other than the provider or hobbyist, posssibly to Mike, if you get my drift.

720 ILCS 5/11-17 "Keeping a Place of Prostitution" does become a Class 4 Felony but again, applies to third parties in a massage parlor/brothel situation.

finally, and probably most misunderstood:

720 ILCS 5/11-18 "Patronizing a Prostitute"
Indeed becomes a Class 4 Felony BUT they have to prove that you
   (1) Engage in an act of sexual penetration as defined in Section 12-12 of this Code with a prostitute; or
   (2) Enter or remain in a place of prostitution with intent to engage in an act of sexual penetration as defined in Section 12-12 of this Code.

The statute speaks for itself and the reasons it is never charged are obvious.  How do they prove the actual act of sexual penetration?  How do they prove that it is a place of prostitution?  How do they prove your intent?  Can it be done? Yes.  Is it ever done? No.  Why?  It's simply too much.  My guess is you might see some increased targeting of AMP's but that's about all.  If they want to get really tricky and get some headlines they will open up a fake AMP for a sting operation.  BUT THIS WILL NOT APPLY TO THE STANDARD PROVIDER/HOBBYIST TRANSACTION.

Now let's all just calm down a little and actually read the whole statute instead of just the titles or someone else's interpretation.  See link below

For a good discussion of that statute, see the analysis by Paddy on the P & R Board.

I think we would do well not to have any of these changes, no doubt LE will find a way to enforce or threaten enforcement for their own purposes. Why can't we have a no child trafficking law without all these add-ons? I am surprised that as an attorney you are so agreeable, but as a former prosecutor I am not surprised.  
 No offense, but I disagree with your perception and would rather see the whole thing canned, but I welcome your participation and hope you will continue to give us your opinion.

solicitation for a prostitute statute that now is a felony and got everyone spooked actually applies only to third party arrangers-aka pimps and their ilk. Does not apply to the typical hobby encounter and the typical sting for solicitation would not implicate this statute.


     The change in the patronizing statute is unlikely to have any real world effect bc LE would be unlikely to to be able prove that sex actually took place unless a provider flipped and was offered immunity to testify against her clients.

I didn't see that in any of wording in HB 6462, either the old text or the additions. Nowhere does it say that solicitation only applies to 3rd parties. Nowhere does it state that johns cannot be charged with solicitation. Knowing how LE operates around here, they'll charge johns under multiple sections of the code. They will find a way to charge solicitation in a 2-party transaction. Hell, they can do anything they want. They'll charge it and use the threat of a felony to turn providers and johns regardless of whether those charges are permissible under the law. LE is allowed to lie and threaten to obtain a confession, no? They'll spit felony at every provider and hobbyist arrested and scare them into snitching.

Nor do I buy the argument that a hotel room rented by the hobbyist or provider is not a place of prostitution. How many times has LE charged providers operating out of hotel rooms with running a place of prostitution? And what about providers who use an incall location or operate out of their homes? You're saying that none of those constitute a place of prostitution? That would be news to Chicago LE.

What about the case of one provider setting up a 3-way including herself? Is she the 3rd party solicitor or the prostitute...or both? LE will charge her with both misdemeanor prostitution (assuming it's a first offense) and felony solicitation. If she was busted before, she'll be charged with two felony counts. Whatever LE can trump up, they will.

The point here is that LE has little leverage on hookers/johns with a misdemeanor penalty. You simply SHUT UP. With the threat of a felony, LE will scare some into spilling the beans.

Dear Defense Attorney:

Thank you for your clarification on IL House Bill HB 6462.  In reviewing the bill once again, it appears that prostitution for a first offense remains a Class A misdemeanor (just don’t get ‘caught’ a second time!) Personally, I think the language of soliciting “for” a prostitute is confusing and I think it could be read both ways if you were not familiar with the law, such as in the case of a lay person (laid person?)  If the provision read soliciting ‘on behalf’ of a prostitute, that would be very clear.

I would like to understand the differences between solicitation of a sexual act as defined in Sec. 11-14.1 - a Class A misdemeanor (as amended,) and patronizing a prostitute as defined in Sec. 11-18 - a Class 4 felony (as amended.)

According to the amended provisions, solicitation includes, (a) Any person who offers a person not his or her spouse any money, property, token, object, or article or anything of value for that person or any other person not his or her spouse to perform any act of sexual penetration as defined in Section 12-12 of this Code, or any touching or fondling of the sex organs of one person by another person for the purpose of sexual arousal or gratification, commits the offense of solicitation of a sexual act.

At the same time, patronizing includes, (a) Any person who performs any of the following acts with a person not his or her spouse commits the offense of patronizing a prostitute:  (1) Engages in an act of sexual penetration as defined in Section 12-12 of this Code with a prostitute; or (2) Enters or remains in a place of prostitution with intent to engage in an act of sexual penetration as defined in Section 12-12 of this Code.

Aren’t these two provisions saying the same thing?  Of course the differences would be the charges of either a misdemeanor or felony.

And, if I read the Pimping provision correctly in Sec. 11-19, it includes the definition of “a person who patronizes a prostitute…” which is classified as a Class 4 felony, as amended.

I also have questions regarding your statement of  LE involvement, “…How do they prove the actual act of sexual penetration? How do they prove that it is a place of prostitution? How do they prove your intent?

Can it be done? Yes.”

How does LE prove right now that you are engaging in an illegal activity?  I have seen repeated posts since I started following the boards several weeks ago where it seems pretty clear that LE can do whatever they want to do!   Additionally, I know of a LE sting where they came to the provider’s hotel room simply based on an on-line advertisement.  They didn’t see her having “sexual penetration” with anyone.  She was still arrested and charged as being a ‘prostitute.’  

Thank you again for your professional opinions.  

Hey, I'm not commenting on whether the bill is good or not, just clarifying what it says and what it does not say.

Of course I don't take offense at your disagreement. As they say, that's why they call it the "practice" of law.  Nobody has all the answers, reasonable people can disagree.

Plus, if there were no disagreements we lawyers would have to get real jobs!

statute raised to a felony applies only to the third party case. Of course two party solicitation remains a crime but that statute was not changed - it is a still a first time misdemeanor.

     I have not  weighed in on the place of prostitution statute and I agree there is some risk there as to how it is construed but see Paddy's explanation as to why he believes it applies only to three party situations.

   I agree that a 3 party situation where the arranger also participates would lead to both charges against the arranger but how often does that happen in the hobby.

    My point is simply that everyone was misreading 11-15 which I believe applies only to arrangers.

If Illinois passes this new law, I can just see all the providers setting up camp just across the Illinois border.  All the Illinois hobbyists who are scared of getting charged with a felony (and rightfully so) will start crossing the border to hobby.  This holds true for cities line Chicago, East St. Louis, Cairo, and Rock Island.  Many larger border cities even have buses or trains going to the other side, which eliminates the need to drive your car across state lines (which can result in worse consequences).  

So in the end, public transit companies will be the only ones to benefit from this law, namely, from transporting taxpayers to other states.  After all, hobbyists might go to eat, get gas, or otherwise spend money before or after their session, which they otherwise would spend in Illinois.  Horrible consequences even for the government, to say the least.

The bill got signed today without any changes.

One thing is for sure. All Chicago agencies are now big fat targets for LE with that first-time felony penalty on the table. If I were an agency owner in Chicago, I'd think long and hard about finding a new line of work.

I would think that RS2K is a facilitator of prostitution in the most general sense since they allow ads on their site. In this sense, they are no different than CL but in reality, they might be more of a target since RS2K is also a verification service that providers use to screen hobbyists. We'll see how LE views them in the coming weeks.

To all hobbyists in IL, be careful who you see and you might want to steer clear of agencies until we see how LE decides to enforce the new law. My biggest concern is that if an agency does get busted, anyone who gave that agency their real info will be compromised. Think hard about the increased risk of exposure you take by using an agency in IL. Sorry to the agency owners, I'm not indicting you but unfortunately you are now a target and I don't want my real info in your databases.

Hello Gentlemen In Illinois,

Scary times ahead.  Come on over to Minnesota-Twin Cities!  I bet some of your worthy public servants will be heading this way, too, in the coming weeks.  Of course you didn’t expect them to ‘play’ by their own rules, did you?  

x o x o   your wild cougar kitty, Cassandra

they wouldn't want to catch their own.

...make it a felony there would be a test case appealed and the recent precedents applied to rule that a woman can have sex with a man in private for any reason she chooses - to include remuneraton.  

Just a thought.

MVR