A guy told of an interesting experience in a Bible-belt state, where a provider required him to issue a written stmt by email or FAX like this: “I certify that I do not represent any law enforce agency, nor am executing any sting ops for our meeting on date/time.” She in turn issued same stmt to him in quid pro quo. She cited the rationale that no LE is dumb enough to issue such a stmt, and thus gives her peace of mind.
Is this a good practice to promote, at least for the peace of mind?
LE is permited to lie, cheat and literally in many states, fuck you in order to get evidence that you are doing an illegal act. This certification idea is total bull shit. It is not LE that is dumb but whoever thought up this useless exercise in emails, in fact such emails could be used as evidence that you are involved in shielding an illegal enterprise. My suggestion is to avoid this practice or the provider who requests this "certi-fuck-cation" practice. Not all good intentions have a basis in fact!
Thanks for pointing out BS. To that lay-woman, it seemed to make sense. At least she got peace of mine (lol).
because only someone engaging in criminal activity tries to evade the police.
if she was providiing a legal service, she wouldn't be concerned about policemen booking an appointment.
Indeed. Now retired after 30 years of criminal law practice, and as the attorney for a State Trooper PBA, I can assure you that such statements will only cause LE to split a side laughing. If they are on to you, you are toast, period. All the comments, statements, pleas in the world aren't going to help. The only saving grace, for us anyway, is that other than a few times every couple of years, they aren't interested in the customers..... they want the providers.
Chuck
I'm new to the hobby, but not to the law.
I'm amazed how little the well reviewed ladies i meet know anything about their legal rights. The last one we actually arrived at the incall location at the same time and right in the parking lot says "you're not a cop are you" (face palm).
so far, i've been asked if i'm LE at almost every encounter. I now usually spend the first 15 minutes chatting about what they're legal rights are, how to avoid being setup, and how to STFU!!!
Prostitution consists of knowingly engaging in or offering to engage in a sexual act for hire. As used in this section "sexual act" means sexual intercourse, cunnilingus, fellatio, masturbation of another, anal intercourse or the causing of penetration to any extent and with any object of the genital or anal opening of another, whether or not there is any emission.
I know that in order for prosecution, there have to be certain elements in place such as a statement, discussion or an agreement. I will error on the side of caution and never discuss anything of sexual nature in the presence of a provider i'm seeing for the first time. I also never hand money, discuss money with a provider.
Even if i were to be arrested, i'm going to make it hard as hell for a prosecutor to want to move forward on my case. Oh wait! that's my golfing buddy! no worries!
lol....I wonder where people get this kind of advice. Disclaimers and waivers are only effective for the LEGAL sale of goods and services.
A disclaimer on an escort ad is nothing more than a HUGE red flag it is an ad for prostitution. The same thing is true for this stupid activity.
In some jurisdictions, there might be some limited legal protection in a dislaimer on an ad or web site. In those limited cases, the protection is that the ad itself is not solicitation. As a practical matter, LE generally does not try to pursue solicitation cases based solely on an ad. Too much effort to prove who posted the ad & what was really intended.
Once you are face to face, solicitations by either party supercede any previous statement... and a new violation occurs. In many jurisdictions, these are misdemeanor violations & in many, must be witnessed by a LEO or admitted by the accused (STFU). There are only 2 people present. The only protection is to be as sure as possible that the other one is not a LEO. If one is LEO than there is no problem establishing who. What is in the ad is meaningless.
skb
If a boss hires an underling to do X work, then the two of them engage in some form of sexual relationship - does that make it prostitution/solicitation? After all, he's paying (for X other service) but also receiving sexual "service". She's being paid (for X other service) and is also providing sexual "service". If an interoffice romance is not prostitution, how can it be prostitution when I am hired to model and for companionship (at a dinner/gala/vacation) and sexual experiences occur? Where's the defining line between one and the other?
I've been a mainstream model off and on since I was 13 and there's a TON of sex that happens between models and photographers/clients/other models/support people. Models are paid to stand around and look pretty (to simplify matters), anything else that happens is coincidental and is not contracted for..... sound familiar? Why is it not prostitution when it happens on the set of a shoot but is prostitution if it happens in a hotel?
your ex.1, the employer-employee relationship and is not prostitution, employee preforms work hired for and services she preforms sexually are gratis, if he/she stops fucking boss, she is still an employee; if he/she starts refusing to suck or fuck the boss and is fired; then she has a series of legal actions to obtain compensation for the job loss....(we sympathize with the many women who permit sexual advances and intercourse/oral to keep their jobs. Obviously they are not prostitutes.)
your ex.2, if you actually preform modeling and are paid standard rate but decide to let the photog fuck you for fun it is fine, then you are not a prostitute but simply a fucking-model. But if you advertise on the web as a prostitute/escort/model with nude photos and titillating ad copy, then you will have a hard time proving you are not a pro when the guy fucking you is not a profession or amature photog of record but a vice cop who called you and booked you for sexual purposes. Does that make it clear?
The concept of sex between adults can not include payment for the sex or else it is considered prostitution by all but the most gullible. Cops, Judges and Jurors are not gullible.....
-- Modified on 2/1/2011 12:21:16 PM
RE: Your explanation for ex 1
Suppose, for the sake of argument, I happen to own a C corp who's purpose is to provide business support services. The corp has all the requisite legal stuff (TIN, registered with the Sec of State, pays quarterly taxes/payroll taxes, separate bank account, etc). The clients of this business pay for business services much as they would if they were using Intelligent Office Solutions, Regis Virtual Office or any of the 9000 other companies out there doing this sort of work. These companies are generally independent contractors - not employees. Does your line of reasoning for why interoffice trysts are not prostitution still stand for independent contractors?
RE: Your explanation for ex 2
According to a not-terribly reliable source (but, I must say the answer is in line with my personal experience)..
"There is no such thing as solid rates.
The rates will be determined by their usage. The same exact photo session can command vastly different rates based on a wide variety of factors. Some of which is the client. The prominence of the person in the shoot, The distribution, The longevity of the ad, whether or not there is a buy out, whether or not the is ad is exclusive. The market it is used for and there are many more factors.
For example: We used people in the background for a VW spot. These pictures were only going in a catalog. The price we paid was $2500 dollars for the day. Now if these same exact pictures were going to be used in an billboard the rates would of been closer to $20,000 per day.
If these pictures were created to run only in some small town news paper the rates may have been only 200 per day.
The rates could even be higher if it was a top model. "
Who gets to decide if the price for a private modeling session is "not normal" when the entire industry has no "standard"? Who's to argue that I am not a "top model" if I am charging above what some may feel could be a standard... and receiving it?
Also, if I were to have a website for the purpose of advertising me as a model and/or companion, did not include titillating text, did include various styles of modeling I actually do (bikini to bridal gown) as well as text designed to showcase my personality (for those inquiring about my ability to accompany them to events)... who gets to decide (and prove) that my intentions were illegal?
I get the concept of sex for payment is prostitution. How does one prove an illegal intention when all signs point in the opposite direction? And, if someone makes the assumption of illegal intention (said vice cop), how does one prove they are simply participating in wishful thinking?
The arresting officer is the first decisionmaker. The arresting officer is not required to have proof that the defendant engaged in prostitution but only evidence which gives him probable cause –i.e., more likely than not - to believe that the defendant engaged in the crime. He can use either direct evidence –the undercover sting where the lady offers sex for money - or circumstantial evidence –the web site, the meeting, and the conduct of the parties - to reach this conclusion. So the decision to arrest is made from his perspective, not the defendant’s.
The decision to prosecute is made by the district attorney. He also needs only probable cause to prosecute.
When a case is prosecuted, the DA must prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the crime was committed. The jury decides if he has done so.
“ How does one prove an illegal intention when all signs point in the opposite direction?”
Well, if all signs indeed pointed in the opposite direction and there was no direct evidence of an intent to solicit or engage in prostitution, there would be no probable cause to arrest or prosecute.
If officer arrested anyway, the magistrate would throw the arrest out. If the magistrate dropped the ball and a prosecution ensued, the judge would dismiss the case at the close of the state’s evidence.
But if the evidence is susceptible to two interpretations, the jury ultimately would decide whether illegal prostitution occurred, or if the sex and payment were unrelated.
These statements are a case of DENIAL. Denial that we are taking any risk, when in fact it is impossible to remove all risk (though we can certainly minimize it).
Denial of risk may lead to ignoring warning signs & taking sensible precautions, like seeing well reviewed providers, researching them and providers screening potential clients. Hard work but necessary.
There is no magic wand for LE avoidance or physical safety either for tha matter.
Be careful while you have fun,
skb
For godssake, people, use your brain. Imagine standing before a judge and saying, “But he [she] swore he [she] wasn’t a cop.” Now, can you imagine the judge saying, “Oh, well, in THAT case, you got us on a technicality. Wow, you sure outsmarted us. Case dismissed.” Come on.