Am I naive?  I never, ever discuss $$ or services with a provider - no exceptions.  I read the reviews and find providers that appeal to me.  I prepare an envelope based on web site instructions or TER review data and show up, discreetly leaving the envelope on an obvious flat service before excusing myself to use the bathroom.   I've never had a lady ask me what she should do for the money,   If she did I would attempt to retrieve the envelope and leave immediately.  Usually what happens is the envelope disappears and we begin some small talk and things develope from there.  

If I were arrested, I would keep my mouth shut and take my chances in court.  I know I could still be prosecuted and convicted, but if the law says I cannot solicit and pay for sexual services, in my mind I have not done this.  I am enjoying the company of a friend and may or may not have left an envelope with a "tip".    If i have fun I leave a good review and repeat.  If not, I don't.

I''m using an alias cause if I have this all wrong and I am being stupid, I will change my behavior based on the adivce I recieve, but I do not want to scare off potential providers.

IMHO, the bottom line is, if Uncle LEO really wants to get you, he will.  However, as you indicate, you are following the accepted guidelines for successful hobbying.  As long as you do that and limit yourself to seeing highly reviewed providers, your chances of getting busted are pretty small.

So relax, stop worrying so much, and just enjoy.  I don't think you need to change anything.

I'm not a lawyer either,
Swim

Unfortunately, it's not your mind that gets to make the call.  It is the judge and jurors' minds that will decide.

If the circumstances add up to prostitution in those minds, then you are guilty.

(still not a lawyer)

If you honestly believe what you just posted.  The law is the law.  If you answer an escort ad, go into a hotel room with her, leave an envelope full of cash on the table and she turns out to be a cop you are going to jail.

If LE has set up a sting or caused a girl to roll on her clients by threatening her, or conversely, offering to drop/reduce charges, then the mere act of just showing up at that location is most likely going to get you arrested.  Because almost anything you do from that point forward will be incriminating.

Even if you're just sitting on the couch talking, fully clothed, paying for her "time and companionship" only, I guarantee you're going down within 5 minutes of walking in the door.  

I made it to age 48 without having any contact with the legal system (I'm now 60).  As a result, I had very naive ideas about my rights, the law, the courts and the inherent goodness of the police.  I had been living in an upper-middle class suburban dream world.  But my false sense of reality was soon shattered.  What happened to me a dozen years ago changed my life in ways I don't wish to discuss, but suffice it to say, I no longer believe any of those silly notions about your rights to be true.

I now view our legal system to be little more than a processing plant that is graded on output.  The cops provide the raw materials (your ass) to the loading dock of the processing plant and are graded on quantity.  The prosecutors are graded on their closing rate and how few people are found innocent.  Like any job, people get ahead based on delivering results- whether you're innocent or guilty is totally irrelevant.  The only thing that counts is the percentage of convictions.  From their standpoint, any time charges are dropped, that's like a defective part being rejected from the assembly line, and we all know nobody likes that to happen.

In the county I used to live in, the prosecutor was very proud of the fact that they had something like a 97% conviction rate.  I ask you, does anybody really believe that everyone in LE and the courts is doing their job so well that 97% of all the people that walked through those doors were actually guilty?  Of course not! What happened to me is similar to what happens to thousands of people.  You get brought in on some charge (false or otherwise), and then faced with a potential $50-100,000 lawyer bill, you are pressured into pleading guilty to some lesser charge, admitting to something that never even happened, but saving yourself a lot of money and months of heartache.

In my case, I spent about $25,000 and pleaded to a bogus misdemeanor and ruined my perfect record for something that never happened.  It was strictly a business decision on my part not to spend a minimum of $75,000 if it went to trial.  Because once you are brought into the system, you either become part of the 97%, or you spend huge sums of money to avoid having a misdemeanor (in my case) on your record.

This is the legal system.  This is called "justice."  And all you guys with your clever ideas about how you'll outsmart it are only kidding yourself.  It may be your life, but it's their job, and like any workplace, there are people willing to lie and cheat to get promoted.  You've got to realize that it isn't a fair fight and quit thinking that you can somehow manipulate the outcome when LE holds all the aces.  I am not a lawyer, but I was a victim.  And if LE ever crosses your path, you'll be a victim too.  

-- Modified on 2/10/2011 12:51:25 PM

Setting up an undercover sting is expensive and time consuming. Vice squads in turn are notorious for being underfunded and understaffed. Consequently, virtually all urban vice squads are trained as to the probable cause needed to make a warrantless arrest for prostitution offenses, the proof the DA will need to convict, and the defenses the defendant can raise.

      The law enforcement system has a safety valve designed to prevent bad arrests. A neutral magistrate reviews all warrantless arrests to insure that the arresting officer had probable cause to make the arrest.

     Vice squads accordingly design the sting to procure the info needed to pass this first choke point. The vice squad supervisor who spends several thousand dollars and significant squad time on arrests that the magistrate throws out will soon be looking for another job.

      So, for these reasons, “the mere act of just showing up" at the location of the sting is not going to get you arrested, unless you have the bad (or maybe good) luck to have wandered into a bad bust because the majistrate is going to throw out the arrest. The sting will be designed to induce you by words, or conduct, to offer money for sex. At that point the door opens.

     Remember, it is not illegal to plan to engage in prositution in your mind. If you go to the scene, never produce the money, say nothing, don’t touch the girl, change your mind and walk out, you are unlikely to be arrested. And if you are, the arrest will be tossed, or when the DA reviews it, he will decide not to prosecute.

Prior to me being encumbered with first hand experience, I thought the system probably had some safeguards in it too.  I thought cops were honest, I thought police reports were accurate, and I thought someone, anyone, in the court system cared about guilt or innocence.  I now know better and act accordingly.

I didn't get caught in a sting, I had the misfortune of calling the wrong ad to get a FBSM in my home.  The agency that sent the ex-con thug to my house to rob me had connections with the police.  This is according to the retired-cop private investigator that I had to hire.  He interviewed many ex-employees of this agency, so this wasn't just my opinion.  In fact, he found they had connections with three police departments in the county, and he suspected there were others.  Especially since the owner of this agency used to have parties for his special friends in PD and provided girls to those in attendance.  This was according to some of the girls the PI interviewed.  It got even worse than this, but I don't care to discuss it any more than I have previously on this site.

The result of my experience is I won't serve on a jury because I no longer believe a word a cop says, and the police reports are nothing more than the fiction needed to justify an arrest.  I was shocked when I read the one on me because it simply bore no resemblance to what happened.

So I'm glad the system works so well in your area.  You sound like an  attorney, so maybe it really is functioning properly in your county.  But as for me, I know better and no amount of discussion about how things are supposed to work will change that fact.  

Oh, and an escort I saw for several years in my town used to get free pot from the cop that lived next door to her.   And this was in one of the squeaky clean cities of SoCal- the one that's always in the Top 10 best places to live in the country every year.  But I'm sure that was just a one in a million occurrence too, and nothing ever disappears out of the evidence locker.

well thank you all for your opinions.  It seems we are all agreed that the best plan is to avoid any contact with LE in the first place, and I will focus my efforts on that end - meet with only well reviewed ladies who have been reviewed by hobbyists who have done other rieviews.

Keep in mind that escorting is not illegal.

I'll give you my perspective, and I do empathize with the other posters that LE's are a bunch of scum sucking low life pieces of crap with a badge and a gun.

Even if arrested, there is a legal tango that takes place BEFORE you go to trial, and that's dealing with the prosecutor to see if enough evidence exists for a successful prosecution. Prosecutors want victories, and if there's a case of weak evidence the chances of it being dropped are high. Those odds increase if you happen to know a good trial attorney who knows the prosecutor and wants to barter (YMMV based on where you live).

Even if you are in a sting, and everything is recorded, if you STFU, don't discuss anything and follow the rules, then there will be less evidence than the guy runs his mouth, discusses what he wants to do, etc. If a prosecutor is looking at 25 cases with confessions, and one who is protected by his 5th amendment right, he will probably let one drop.

Here's a tidbit for you. If you don't know a really good trial attorney, spend sometime in the strip clubs (at the bar, not the tip rail) buy some cocktails and get the names of attorneys who represent both the girls and the clubs. You will then find an attorney who knows the system and is used to dealing with these types of charges. Most people make the mistake of going out and getting a high paid attorney who probably never steps foot in the courthouse and is embarrassed to handle your case. Some other tidbits: if the law firm's office is more than 3 blocks from the courthouse, I doubt you have found a trial attorney!! JMHO.

-- Modified on 2/15/2011 11:37:05 AM

...of a bust by about 99% by using providers with reviews that span a reasonable time period (not all the last week!).  And, assuming the woman who answers the door is the one pictured in the reviews/ad/profile, you don't have much to worry about.  

I'm told that simply answering a provider's ad, coming in and putting down the envelope etc amounts to something called a 'constructive solicitation' in some jurisdictions.  You have gone through all the steps without uttering the magic words, ergo the magic words are not required for the case.  Hence the envelope and leaving it casually are nice and polite touches but only amount to good manners with the provider.  If the provider turns out to be LE, you are going to be arrested most likely.  

The bottom line is to never end up in the same room with LE because if you do, you are really screwed.  Even if you can beat the wrap in court, the attorney is going to cost you big time.

mvr

-- Modified on 2/12/2011 5:36:06 AM

Yes,you are naive.

The safest thing to do would be to get a girl friend and stop picking up hookers.  Dude all those little safeguards dont mean shit when you get picked up by vice.  They can make your life a pile of shit if you have a job and family.  You can get off the charges but youll have to spend a small fortune on some shyster attorney.  Its like Woody Allen said...80% of success is just showing up. All you have to do is show up and get busted,  thats all it takes.

Of course you are right, but odd that you pick Woody (an erection) as a spokesperson for that logic. This is a guy who is so hopped up on testosterone that he is fucking his own step-daughter in the face of his "wife" and child  who he lost was to become estranged from. What you have to realize  is  the fact that not all men are the same. Some have such testosterone drive that they can not control their needs and in the face of prison, disgrace and losing wives and children they go out and fuck their sister-in-laws, neighbors and in a bid for civility they frequent an escort who they assume is the lesser evil. Of course if wifey was available he might not have to stray. That is why the bible sanctions poligamy and mistresses, men and woman age at different rates. A man in his 60's is still sexually active, most women stop wanting a twice weekly trist in their forties. The fact is that most hobbyists never see a cop who busts them, they never get busted! few are ever called to pay the piper. So it is a logical step to seek an escort for a needed romp, and believe me some of us need that romp more than oxygen. So cut some slack to the guys who have to get some sex outside marriage as most wives stop performing as soon as they get a ring through hubby's nose!



-- Modified on 2/12/2011 7:30:47 PM

"In my mind." Just on that basis, which do you believe will win out in a court of law.

But, you are decreasing the likelihood of being arrested by doing what you're doing, and if you see well reviewed ladies. And, you decrease your chances of being prosecuted by keeping you mouth shut and getting a lawyer. So, you've got the right ideas, but still no guarantees, just decreasing the probability of conviction.

Our legal system is so broken that the word "justice" should be stricken from the english language.  There is a police officer here that shot a deaf person 4 times and killed him because he had a knife in his hand and was carving something...look out the system is terrible

Peter

Bull crap. My wife would do it all the time. but I just got hooked on hookers and cant quit., so the wife wont do it card is not always true

Well put! This country has become a police state. Has anyone here ever heard of the prison industrial complex? It's similar to the military industrial complex; however, our esteemed public servants are fiscally rewarded by private entities for building and populating prisons. Such a practice is a thinly veiled merger of state and corporate powers, otherwise known as fascism.

Our elected officials do not have our best interest at hearts. They're self-serving bullies, and LE is in the business of doing their dirty work. We've also become a society of double-standards. There's no need to mention Elliot Spitzer, who was clearly guilty of soliciting prostitutes, yet was rewarding with a show on CNN.

In short, it's about time we ask our state governments to stay out of the bedrooms of consenting adults.  I'm confident most people in major cities would rather see their tax dollars invested elsewhere. I suggest you contact your state representatives and ask them to decriminalize prostitution. Otherwise, we engage in Egyptian-style protests at our state capitals until such demands are met.