I have read where people get arrested for soliciation on the street for approaching a SW asking for xy and z in return for money.  

My question is if done over the internet, if you email a provider and ask for xy and z and agree on a payment, can one be arrested for solicitation even if a face-to-face meeting does not happen? (LE can set easily set-up a personal ad on the net and easily trace the response back to your computer.) It is a general question not specific to any one state.

You must always consider state law as that's generally who prosecutes these crimes and states vary, sometimes widely.

As to your question, I'd say yes as LE would have it in writing.  All they'd need to do is show it was your computer and nobody else had access to it.

Do not confuse form and substance.

I'm pretty sure that to be arrested for solicitation you have to actually commit a crime, and I'm willing to bet that at least right now, that does not include chatting online.  I could be wrong but my feeling about online chats is... it's just TALK. I can TALK about doing pretty much whatever I want, it's what I DO that I can get in trouble for.

Methinks, anyways, I'd love to hear other opinions!

Hugs*
Nicole

If your ISP gets involved, then it's quite easy for them to prove you sent the email.  All LE has to do is show that a particular IP address sent the message.  If you're using "normal" email, the IP address is in the message headers.  If you're using a web-based email, most of them log the IP address from which you're typing your email.

Once LE has the IP address, they can go to your ISP, and request the ISP's logs.  From that, they'll find out which account was using that IP, and if it's dial-up, probably the phone number you called from.

You'd have to claim that it wasn't really you using your account, but that's not going to be easy.

It's much safer to just not ask about sex.  That's what reviews are for, so you know she'll do x, y and z.

I believe one could easily claim they had no intent to actually meet, it was simply a cyber flirtation.

as a provider I NEVER write anything on e-mail that I wouldn't say on the phone. If someone e-mails me asking what I offer and rates, i tell them they have to call me,FROM THEIR OFFICE.
I will tell them the area I am in and that's it.
I use e-mail for ME, so I can ask them what they do for a living and for their work contact info-AND THAT'S IT.
If they want me to compromise my situation and safety and don't know better than to ask stupid things whether it be on the phone or via e-mail, fuck em.

I agree with you about not discussing sex over the telephone.  It is up to the prosecution to prove it was you that sent the message.  As a defendant, you don't have to prove a thing.  The prosecution would have to produce an expert witness who could testify that no one else could have sent the message, and there was no doubt it was you.  If you have a good defense attorney, he could prevent the so called expert witness from testifying unless he is a court certified expert witness.  That would be done in a pre-trial motion. If the court allowed the witness to testify as an expert, (very doubtful) then the defense attorney could take the expert witness on a voir dire.  The voir dire should raise enough doubt is the minds of the jurors regarding the witness’ expertise to discredit his testimony.

One caveat: Since so many jurors are just a click or two above being simple minded, you never really know what the end result is going to be.  Remember, you might be judged by the same people who deliver you mail.  Case and Point: The OJ Simpson Jury.  

-- Modified on 4/1/2003 1:14:59 PM

-- Modified on 4/1/2003 1:16:52 PM

All they have to show is that it was your account.  Unless you've got a really good reason why someone else might use your account,  there goes reasonable doubt.

And there's some things in the ISP's logs that can tie the email to your physical location, so you couldn't claim you were hacked by "some hacker".

Excuse me but the purpose of an arrest is to begin the process to prove you committed the crime.  People are often arrested and found not guilty or actually did not commit the crime for which they were arrested.

Solicitation does not require sexual conduct; it requires illegal conduct defined as offering or asking for sex for money.  The offer is the conduct.

You are confused.  One has to prove a "claim" by which you mean your "alibi" or defense.  You must show that the glove don't fit so you must acquit.  Simply alleging something doesn't prove  it.  Besides, the crime of solicitation is complete when the offer is made and accepted.

(Just for the record, I am a lawyer)

We should all be aware of the difference between "solicitation" and "advertising."  

"Solicitation" is a person-to-person request for a specific favor in exchange for money.  Soliciting an act of prostitution is illegal in most jurisdictions.  Within the States, the brothels of Nevada are the only legal houses of prostitution as far as I am aware.

"Advertising" is a general announcement to the public.  Advertisement of escort services, or even of outright prostitution, is legal in most jurisdictions (and is almost certainly constitutionally protected).  

That is why all of our favorite ladies are able to advertise online or in the papers / directories without legal repercussions.

It is perfectly legal to solicit time, companionship, and nonsexual massage, which is why you always see fine print to that effect at the bottom of your favorite websites.  

When you make an appointment with a provider, it is best to avoid talking about sex acts or money.  Upon your visit, my advice is to have fun first, and save the payment for the end.  If you follow these precautions, and if the person you're dealing with just happens to be undercover LE, then it will be very difficult for them to establish a case of solicitation against you.  

It is also helpful to keep in mind that 3rd-party arrests are very difficult to make.  In other words, the police do not have the right to invade the privacy of your home to see what you are doing.  The only easy way for them to make arrests is to pose as a client (or, rarely, as a provider).  As long as you trust the person you are dealing with, you should be safe from the law.  For clients, this means sticking with established providers.  Providers can take measures such as asking for a client's TER username, calling him at work, or simply refusing to accept money until the very end of the date -- and even then accepting it only on a voluntary basis.  

The bottom line is that prostitution laws are easy to circumvent if you are just careful about what you say and when you say it.  If you avoid making express sex-for-money agreements before having sex, then chances are you are acting strictly within the letter of the law.  And, let's face it, with great informational stores such as TER at our disposal, face-to-face solicitations are no longer necessary.

You raise two issues here,1) concerning the substantive law of solicitation, and 2) Jurisdiction concerning acts committed over the internet.

The easiest issue concerns substance. This of course depends on how the offense is defined in the jurisdiction where the person is charged. This definition may differ somewhat from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, but NY's law is typical:

"A person is guilty of criminal solicitation in the fifth degree when, with intent that another person engage in conduct constituting a crime, he solicits, requests, commands, importunes or otherwise attempts to cause such other person to engage in such conduct.

Criminal solicitation in the fifth degree is a violation."

The prosecution must prove all elements of the offense, including intent. So regardingthe "cyberflirting" defense
mentioned above, it might come in handy if the prosecution first presents convincing evidence of intent. otherwise it's unnecessary.

Practically, this whole issue is not that important. In NY, low grade solicitation, such as soliciting a prostritute is a minor offense, not even classified as a crime, but only a violation. With a max penalty of two weeks in jail, most offenders, even repeaters, would only be fined. I don't believe police would expend too much of their resources trying to nab such offenders
unless it occurs openly in an area where constant solicitation diminishes the quality of life for the area's residents.

2)Jurisdiction is complicated on thew internet. In general, one must have "significant contacts" with a jurisdiction before one can be charged by that jurisdiction. A single interstate contact
betw/ a customer and an escort will not do it for the jurisdiction on the recieving end of the solicitation, so it's unlikely that any jurisdiction will try to entice or entrap out of state "solicitors." It would more likely one would be charged for intrastate solicitations, but the offense in so minor that this too would be unlikely. Of course, Federal Govt. can always charge you for interstate solicitations, but this is small potatos with a probability near nil unless the minors are involved. (As you know, there are many prosecutionskiddie porn
and predation.)

1. On its face, no $ need be exchanged.  It's offer and acceptance without consideration.

2. That's the International Shoe argument but it applies to civil cases, not criminal cases.

You're right in that it's sex for money but the crime of solicitation is complete on the offer being made and accepted; no money need change hands.

Just do not mention any consideration; money, services, anything of value.

Also, those disclaimers are essentially worthless as form over substance.

rodmewell... What State(s) laws are you basing this statement on? My admittedly limited knowledge of several states’ prostitution laws (in one case, this is first hand knowledge) leads me to conclude they DO require an exchange of money before a crime has been committed. If one were to have sex with a prostitute, and then not pay her, no law has been violated in any state I'm familiar with (except possibly larceny ).

Just an added thought..   The  true problem for the arrestee that exists is in fact based on reality in an arrest situation. What I mean to say is no matter how hard  you try to avoid certain ways  of  doing  things  to stay with in the legal boundries of a situation, LE is there working twice as hard  as you  to trip you up.
 Even if you follow to the T  all of the  very good advice  offered here, it doesnt spare you the hassle and expense of an arrest. There are instances  when you get the ticket  regardless of whether  you  said or did anything illegal. In my personal experience, I refused the cash  he practically threw at me, I circumvented his verbal efforts  for 45 mins , I even  went so far as to tell him I and never paid for anything  but my time and  unfortunately for him was  now  all used up because  it was spent in traffic and  discussion   (driving intoto his  jurisdiction when he  requested an appointment  to spend time with me ) I got  the ticket anyway  , and  was threatened  if I  fought the ticket he would "hunt me down". Personally I think I have a  rights violation case here , but who wants even more hassles. The point is   I did  use my  head  and  I still got the ticket , and  I now have legal fees  over $5500  and  its been 6 months and  the case  has still not been tossed  nor has  my side ever  gotten discovery from the prosecution.  Oh   an one more thing , this is a FIRST time arrest and  never so much as a traffic ticket on my record  ever... So dont think  by following the letter of  the law  you are  safe , because I know first hand  you arent.

just my thoughts, and  feedback for my situation would be appreciated as well.