Hey Guys

Just wondering if I don't set down money / talk about anything can I get busted by a flipped provider?
Is having an envelope with donation in it enough if I don't set it down (ie it's still in my pocket)?

Visiting a provider i've seen multiple times before and thinking to quell my fears to put the donation down after the session...thoughts?

we have discusssed this before, don't worry about anything other than putting it in the hands of a vice agent, if it is the usual girl it is probably ok and whether it is in an envelope or a condom it does not matter, you have no protection with an envelope unless it is something given you by Hairy Potter and can magically  make you invisible.... In  most jurisdictions you have to have a furtherance of the act so if you stand around and act goofy you should be ok, of course you will never get laid with this game but it might be fun till the provider kicks you out....When in doubt run home and masturbate till you feel relaxed.Very few gals get fliped, this happens only when a gal is is real trouble and trying to get out of it, if it is your regular honey pot, just give up the dough and roll it on, you should be fine.Of course if a squad car is outside the door and has the lights flashing it may be a clue that this is the wrong time to get amorous...

-- Modified on 5/9/2011 7:32:41 PM

Hey Legal thx for the awesome advice

I searched after i made this post and found some good posts thx

Very few girls get flipped?  I was surprised at this

We're talking about chitown here and with the new law passed I am not quite sure what LE can and cannot do.  I always let the provider initiate things

you're about to be busted, even if all they can get you on if picking your feet in Poughkipse (Fans of The French Connection will know what I'm talking about here.)

Yes, the case may get dropped if the DA decides the bust wasn't strong enough, but by then, you would have been brought downtown, had to be bailed out, maybe got your name in the paper, etc.

Have charges dropped is a pretty pyrhic victory.

The trick is to avoid being in a room with LE, and to avoid that you should only see well reviewed providers.  Some times providers do flip, and unfortunately there's not much we can do about that except stay current on your local board where, hopefully, that information will be revealed after she busts someone.

If you're in the same room with LE you're going down.  Even if you didn't say or do anything illegal, the fact that you're there is enough for you to be considered guilty- at least with LE, if not a jury.

Like Mr. Fisher says anything after that is a pyrhic victory.  You've already taken the hit, both financially and perhaps even publicly, and nobody cares if you were found innocent and the charges were dropped.  Not only will that information never be made public, like the news of your arrest was, but the mere fact that you were arrested makes you guilty in the minds of most people.

LE relies on the fact that your life is fucked even if they don't have enough evidence to get a court to convict you.  They win either way and that's why they arrest first, and ask questions later.

Guys think they're being so clever with this or that strategy to fool LE- they hide their money up their ass, or they speak in pig latin and they think they're going to outsmart the cops.  All you're doing is giving LE a good laugh.  Because let's be perfectly honest here- the cops write the police report, so what they say happened, is what happened- you don't get a vote in the process.

The big shock to most people is that the police report doesn't have to be the truth because nobody else was there except you, and you're a degenerate pervert that wanted to see an escort.

Many of us have learned this the hard way when our lawyer was sent a copy of the report and we couldn't even recognize any of the so-called "facts" of the case.  And believe me, cops know how to punch up a police report to make it sound really, really good.  They may have slept through all their other classes, but when it comes to creative writing, they were star pupils.



-- Modified on 5/10/2011 1:25:45 PM

Unless instructed otherwise on her web site, I place my phone, keys & pocket junk on the dresser...  just like I do at home.  I have the correct donation out & held together with a paper clip just peaking out under my wallet.  When redressing I pick up everything but the donation.  With ladies that are cool it works very smoothly.  I like this proceedure as it holds the GFE illusion.  
Once I've left the donation, I do not watch it...  often in the back & forth to the bathroom it will silently disappear before I say my goodbyes.  

If you are paying after the action, you are really pretty safe...  LE is not in the habit of waiting until you're done.  Ussually an undecover will quickly lead you into saying something incriminating so they can do the bust.  

If you have properly done your homework, there should be nothing to discuss.  You both know why you are there.  Hugs & kisses lead directly to the bed.  

I once had a New Girl swoop in to claim her donation, (I guess she'd been burned before).  She could have waited another 10 seconds & picked it up invisibly but I said nothing.  The circumstances left a bit to be desired thought the action was fun...  I wasn't going back anyway.  
skb  

with the exact amount of her hourly rate inside. A prosecutor will easily be able to establish that this is the customary form for johns to bring payment for prostitution services.

To read these boards, you would think that flipped providers are the #1 hazard of hobbying. I think that's because the possibility is so mysterious that posters, especially newbies, obsess about them all out of proportion to their true numbers. In reality, it's like going camping and worrying so much about Bigfoot that you overlook the real danger of being mauled by bears.

LE undercover can do anything they want, grope you, lie to you...    This can never be 100% safe...  
A well reviewed provider is the best bet...  a lady you've seen before successfully is even better...  IF they follow reasonable precautions, makes them less of a target.  (IF they don't, then stay away!)  
skb

hey guys thanks for all the replies

I am talking about a well reviewed lady that I have seen before...I  guess my real question is really about flipped providers / past stories

or allow you to grope her. At the point when you reach for an "LE check", she'll probably jump away and allow her backup crew to apply their version of the LE check to you and your wrists.

LB, I think I speak for many of us...way to crank it out of the park!

How can LE prove that you've responded to an ad in an escort section. Just because the lady has one, doesn't prove the guy is responding to one. Not being argumentative; just a question that keeps rolling around in my head.

Showing up shows intention. You responded to an online ad in an escort section. I used to have a routine I made clients go through until I realized it really didn't matter. Now as long as I get the donation before we say our good byes all is well. I don't care if you set it down on the dresser, super glue it underneath your testicles, stick it in my thong, give it to me in a book, as long as I get it. The moral of the story is do your research so you don't get into an "I'm fucked" situation.

Circumstantial evidence.  Cases can be made, and won, with nothing but circumstance.  And if you think the courts are "fair" look at all the people getting out on an annual basis because it was proved they did not commit the crime!

I have to agree.  I pretty much just put the envelope in plain site, use the washroom and come out.  It gives her time to count it and know she's not being cheated, and with the door cracked, I'd see her leave or other guys come in so I can at least get dressed before LE breaks down the door to get me.

Personally, I figured even though I live in the People's Republic of Illinois, getting busted cannot possibly be THAT bad.  At least, not on the first offense.

I wasn't referring to a random happen stance of getting popped. That is rare. I was talking about walking into a set up. Bottom line, you end up in the room with LE and your going downtown, end of story. It doesn't matter what you say or do. You may be able to get out of being found guilty if you play your cards right, but you will still get arrested

Good point...  I'm betting a FM undercover would not even make contact...  no proof but I really think they would be straight to business without a hug & FK.  
skb

anything but the most basic non-sexual touching if that.

      Most, if not all, vice squads have internal guidelines that forbid the undercover officer from actually engaging in sex. Among other reasons, this creates the defense of outrageous LE conduct and raises the question of whether the officer herself is violating the law. At a minimum, the officer is not going to want to testify that she had sex with the target.

     Undercover stings are designed to establish the elements of solicitation, not prostitution per se.

a friend of mine who is retired vice, told me an undercover cop - male or female will not let you get close enough to hug and kiss them.  if you hug and kiss the person you are meeting and they step back or push you away, walk out right then.   A legit provider will have no problem with a hug and a kiss at the door before you do anything else.

Not to mention cameras they put in the room to get evidence.  You don't think they are going into a sting operation to get a number of clients without having the warrant in hand, do you?

There are probably some female LEs that will go all the way with you, maybe more than once, building evidence and then nailing a bunch of guys all in one sitting.  Lull you with a false sense of security.

However, even the one time route, why wouldn't they?  You invited the contact by arranging the meeting, so they are not violating your rights in any way.  Further, allowing you to touch them causes you to do a direct act in furtherness of the crime, what better evidence than to have video footage of you grabing a LE's breast?

LE does not need an actual sex act...  they need the agreement of sex for money.   I've known several FM LEOs & it is difficult enough in the man's world of LE.  A FM who allowed it would not last long.   Maybe deep undercover on a major felony...  like busting the wise guys...   but the actr would be private & never see the light of day.
skb

that puts their female officers in that kind of compromising position.

it was a big hoopla when a male officer did it.(and actually admitted it saying he was told to)

Especially if the phone you lay down is your regular (i.e. non-hobbying) phone that would seem to further the "hey, nice to see you girlfriend" argument.  Presumably your hobby phone could be left, well hidden in your car.

She hiked her skirt and asked if I kissed below the waist.  I quickly dropped to my knees and gave the trimmed kitty a lick or two and then we were on to the races.....

If the provider sets you down on the bed and starts talking about money and tries to get you to pay money, and clearly lays out the deal you need to start thinking for an escape plan.

The fuzz loves to get you on tape, clear as a bell committing a crime. So if you are in a motel/hotel and they are cops, then are being taped. They also like to have you sitting down on the bed. You are in a known position and have to stand up to do anything. So if they are insisting you sit on the bed and they start talking money.....you are in a world of hurt.  I suggest the following exit strategy:

Get on your knees and fold your hands in prayer and say the following:

"Sweety, I am here to save you from your wicked ways. Would you please pray with me? Dear lord turn this harlot back from the evil and sinful nature that has taken (her, him, or unknown)."

Move, while still on your knees,  to the nightstand and hope that the Gideon's are still doing their good work. Get out the bible and and ask her to pray with you.


Now, if some big black pimp rushes in, just tell him you thought they were LE. Otherwise, when the girl tells you to get the F* out, do so.

If while down on your knees you spy a camera under the nightstand, crank it up a notch. Start speaking in tongues or something.

Make sure they know you do not have the intent to pay for play.

Then ask the girl is she will go to church with you and wash away her sins.

Try to leave.


OR.....

When she sits you on the bed and starts talking money say:

"Look, I want to be honest with you. I am working on a book. I don't want to have sex, I would like to ask you a few questions. Do you mind? I am still willing to pay for your time, but I DO NOT WANT TO HAVE SEX. I just want to ask you a few questions for my research."

Then start thinking up questions that might be good in a book.

Never talk money or show money until part of you is in part of her or visa versa or vice will have you for sure.

I'm new here, but that's how I envision LE. A hooker, usually she's LE but possibly a provider in very deep doo doo I guess, sets up shop, has an add or review or whatever somewhere on the internet that the cops have a copy of. Guys show up, gee I wonder what they are there for?? No, they know, so they arrest 'em all and fill in the details in the paperwork later. I guess if you really agreed to nothing you might get off after long months of legal wrangling; as you say grats on the phyrhic victory.

Still, I guess it makes sense to play it careful and agree to nothing, here in California you can probably get off eventually, yes after you're life is ruined.

What's funny is when calling around to some provider adds, you get stuff like, "so do you work for any LE agency?" Well, if I'm an undercover cop, I'm undercover as a plumber or accountant, so no. The worst is the providers with adds and/or web sites that declare GFE, CFS, DATY, and whatever list of sex act acronyms. Kinda kills the "donations are for time and modelling" type disclaimers. I would guess the cop can just show up and bust her and it'll stick. Maybe most of these providers also screen heavily, but I know some don't.

Anyway, good thread, I'm just tossing in my thoughts. I used to think if I walk into a sting I could claim "what? no I just wanted to sit 8 feet away and talk to her and maybe watch her take her top off. Or maybe I just wanted a normal massage for my sore back." and be free to go. Thinking about it now, they would just laugh and bring me downtown.