It seems we've gone the wrong direction. Millions allocated til 2011.
They say it's to protect the innocent (underage and trafficking cases), but I see too many news stories about lonely men being caught in stings.
If you search google news about prostitution by date, you'll see what I'm talking about.
What a Story! it should happen all around the world, may be one day.......
Oh, to be Dutch.
In the Netherlands, prostitution and marijuana are legal, Heineken is the local brew, and Amsterdam is a bike-able international city with a huge selection of fine cheeses.
And now comes the news from the Dutch justice ministry that the crime rate is so low that it will close eight prisons and cut 1,200 jobs.
There are too few prisoners for its prison cells -- 12,000 detainees in a prison system that has capacity for 14,000.
America should have such problems. In California, where I live, federal judges have ordered the California prison system to reduce overcrowding by as many as 55,000 inmates within three years so the state can provide a constitutional level of medical and mental health care to the remaining prisoners. California has the nation's largest prison system with 150,000 inmates, or more than 12 times that of the Netherlands.
Layoffs should be prevented in the closing of prisons in the Netherlands, and some reprieve may come from a deal with neighboring Belgium to unload some of its overpopulated prisons. About 500 Belgian prisoners could be transferred to the Tilburg prison by 2010.
The deal would give the Netherlands 30 million euros, and allow the closing of the prisons in Rotterdam and Veenhuizen to be postponed until 2012.
Theories abound on why crime is so low in the Netherlands. The murder rate, for example, has been declining since the 1990s, when there were an average of 250 murders per year. The rate hit a record low in 2007 with 147. One idea is that decriminalizing drugs leads to less violent crimes, and that a passive approach works best.
that is right! many violent crimes ie: random shootings etc are drug related,
although, I do not use drugs I think it should be legal and regulated like alcohol.
And Prostitution should be decriminalized & apply to nuisence cases.
while your at it , our health care system is broken we need to take some clues from the Netherlands as well
It seems we've gone the wrong direction. Millions allocated til 2011.
They say it's to protect the innocent (underage and trafficking cases), but I see too many news stories about lonely men being caught in stings.
If you search google news about prostitution by date, you'll see what I'm talking about.
people? I think they are.
Lets not say it is because drugs and prostitution are legal there. That has very little to do with it.
Take drugs for instance. Legalizing them here will not slow down the criminals and the criminal mentality that is running rampant in our society. Thugs will merely be robbing legitimate enterprises for their drugs as opposed to each other, and will still be burglarizing homes, and still stick a gun in your back for your wallet.
Lets call a spade a spade. We are a violent Country, they are not.
Some of the difference between Dutch and American crime rates no doubt stems from social and cultural factors as Sal_Minella and vonrichtofen both suggest. But I disagree with Sal_Minella's assertion that the difference in drug laws "has very little to do with it." To the contrary, the "war" on drugs contributes to crime in at least two and maybe three ways:
First, a lot of violent crime results from drug deals gone bad. Because their transactions are illegal, drug dealers and their customers cannot resolve their disputes through the legal system, as would ordinary merchants and their customers. Instead, in many cases, they try to kill one another.
Second, the price of drugs is much higher than it otherwise would be because of the illegality of drugs. Sellers demand a premium price to compensate for the risk of arrest and prison. Those who feel a need to buy the drugs at least sometimes turn to crime in order to pay these high prices.
There's also a third reason that's more conjectural than the other two, but it seems likely to me that the highly variable quality of drugs available in the illegal marketplace reduces the capacity of drug users to earn a living in the way most of us do. Instead, they resort to episodic forms of employment, like robbing a liquour store.
Eliminate drug laws ... no illegal drugs
Eliminate speed limits.... no speeding
Eliminate DUI laws.... no drunk driving
Eliminate homicide laws... no murders
Laws cause CRIME...no laws.. no crime... its absolutely ridiculous to expect anyone to actually obey the law and not do drugs etc.
We are on our way to Utopia!
MVR
makes so much sense.
Helmet laws, seatbelt laws, drug laws, laws against prostitution, the list goes on and on. For a "free" society, we are far from free.
I don't pay taxes and go out and vote to elect politicians to enact laws to protect me from myself. (at least not intentionally). We have incarcerated thousands of people for years for the simple act of smoking a joint or doing a line, something our last three presidents have admitted doing themselves.
In the process we have made billionaires out of the criminals who control the trade. Please tell me how this makes any sense whatsoever.
Lets just take one... helmet laws. I'm fine with not requiring someone to wear a helmet when they ride a motorcycle... IF they are fine with publicly funded physicians witholding treatment for head trauma as a result. They can pay for trauma insurance (good luck!) or work without a net and accept the risk.
I'm way cool with freedom if you are willing to pay the price.
MVR
Would you recommend withholding cancer treatment for smokers? Put a special tax on Big Macs or withold treatment of obese people? How about skydivers? Would their high risk behavior not alse exempt them from publicly funded health care? Where exactly do you draw the line on legislating personal behavior?
Speaking as one of those that already "pay the price". I already pay for the actions or inactions of others. I don't need anymore laws protecting me from myself or laws that legislate morality.
I wouldn't even know where to begin contrasting the US and the Netherlands. To write the lack of Dutch crime off primarily to relaxed drug laws is simplistic (at best).
I'm going to speculate something very politically incorrect. If a study of crime in the US was done that broke the statistics into social (not racial, but groupings based on education, employment, income etc) groupings then you compared oranges and oranges to the Dutch, I'm betting you might find not that much difference between the two groups.
Thats my .02 worth.
MVR
..it is just that the Dutch are (except on certain KEY issues) much better and more practical in terms of handling the problems.
Examples: I went to a brothel there and was with a Romanian illegal immigrant who bribed her way in and bought some phony papers that allowed her to stay in the country. She spoke very good English so I presume that her Dutch was not bad either. I'm sure that helped in fooling the immigration people.
Another example: I once saw a guy who I knew was a pimp (because I was with one of 'his' girls and she told me as much). He was making all nice and buddy buddy with the cops. I got the feeling that he may have 'bought' their favor. There is a real login in 'roping off' the mischief makers on into one general area, i.e. the Red Light District.
To say one thing in favor of the good ole USA- the
enculturation of immigrants . If you don't believe me, read up on what happened to Theo Van Gogh, and why.
-Old Man Ron
Big countries have big problems....the US, China, India, Russia...but also big potential. The US has its challenges, but at least we did something when the ethnic cleansing of Kosovo was being undertaken by Serbia. The EU stood by and watched this happen in their own backyard until we intervened. As such, I refuse to put the Europeans, especially the Western countries, on a pedestal. With notable exceptions (e.g. France/UK), they are relatively homogenous cultures prone to xenophobia.
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed, to me: I lift my lamp beside the golden door." -Inscription on the Statue of Liberty.
I'll take the USA with all its faults anyday.
Yes, and in Europe you also have lovely things like Neo-Nazis and the seething, simmering problem of Radical Islam (especially in the UK- remember the London subway bombing? Remember the bombing in Spain?)
As much as I love Holland and Amsterdam I refuse to put the Dutch on a pedestal either. Remember Anne Frank. The family that protected her was the exception. The rule was to hand the Jews over to the Nazis so they could be shipped off to the concentration camps.
-old man ron the noisemaker
Yes, the Netherlands actually formed a SS regiment which contributed to the murder of Jews during WWII.
The Netherlands today tolerates murder by radical islamists, and I wouldn't be surprise if they permit the practice of sharia in islamic communities.
The tollerance of islamic radicals is prevalent in Europe today and as these communities graw, as they are doing, they will control the laws of these countries to a greater and greater extent.
Europe is in grave danger of being islamized and has yet to wake up to the effect.
Under sharia, providers will be stoned to death.
FireInHearth, you could have been a Republican presidential candidate with your ominous report. This thread is going in the P&R direction.
I have considered moving to the NL for a variety of cultural reasons, and being heavily German rooted could likely fit right in. Also, their required health insurance is reasonably priced, way ahead of this country and the direction it's taking.
i thought that meant that as long as we did not violate the constitutional rights of others, our actions were protected by the 9th amendment.