specific statute in your state but the Arkansas statute for example would apply even if you are on hotel property "without apparent reason." So if you are walking into that hotel carrying a suitcase I don't think they could stop you - but if you are just heading up to a room without a suitcase or visible room key, they could:
5-71-213. Loitering.
(a) A person commits the offense of loitering if he or she:
(1) Lingers, remains, or prowls in a public place or the premises of another without apparent reason and under circumstances that warrant alarm or concern for the safety of persons or property in the vicinity and, upon inquiry by a law enforcement officer, refuses to identify himself or herself and give a reasonably credible account of his or her
presence and purpose;
What if LE is staking out your destination incall in response to a complaint and they "sweat" the hobbyist either upon arrival or departure. I know the answer is "I want a Lawyer", but what about questions like.
Why are you in the hotel?
what room are you looking for?
Who are you here to see?
I know to shut up if I am busted, but I am concerned about the pre-arrest encounter.
They will wait until after you came out the room to ask questions. Use threats and the fact they have a gun to get you to squeal and spill out details why you went into a certain room.
They are trying to get you say you were seeing a lady for sex that required payment.
Tell them that they can talk to your lawyer. Claim the 5th.
Failure do so and spilling your guts will also LE to create 1 to 2 counts of prostitution against the provider that you just saw.
Sometimes LE does not even question you. They will use a hidden camera and use the fact that you entered in and out of room to file a count against the provider.
so I am walking down the corridor of a hotel and LE ID's themselves and asks what I am doing in the hotel, I should take the 5th at that point? I am confused cause there seems a point at which refusing to say anything is more incriminating then saying nothing. i.e. "Hi, I am officer jones, do you have the correct time?.....No I refuse to speak with you without a lawyer"
I know they will try and get me to talk anyway they can but it seems there should be some practical answers for explaining my presence in a hotel. Isn't being up in the room area's of a hotel without a destination trespassing?
I've seen your question asked many times before here. I agree that it seems that there should be a better, less defensive response before a cop has suggested you've done anything wrong. Because lacking that, if they stop you in the hotel, you're screwed. Even if they only ask what you're doing there, there's nothing you can say without digging yourself a deeper hole.
Somebody once suggested, "I'm tending to some personal business." Then, when they follow up by asking what business and with whom you're left to revert back to, "I'm sorry, sir, but I prefer not to discuss that with you. Am I free to go?" At that point there's a chance they'll turn you loose, but they might arrest you for trespassing, try to scare you into confessing, etc.
They have the upper hand and are masters of getting you to incriminate yourself.
The framers of the Constitution knew this full well, and that's why they put the Fifth Amendment in there.
If you want to get creative, try answering every question LE poses with your own question.
Example:
LE: "What is your business here?"
You: "Why, what's up?"
LE: "We have reason to believe that men are coming here for prostitution; is that why you are here?"
You: "How do you know?"
LE: "We have ways sir; are you here to meet a woman for prositution?"
You: "What would make you think that I'm here for that?"
LE: "You seem to fit the profile, unless you can show me that you are a guest at this hotel and have a key to show us."
You: "Are you asking everyone who comes down this hall if they have a key?"
LE: "We are asking you. Will you please show us your key?"
You: "If I don't have a key, does that mean I'm guilty of something?"
LE: "It might. Do you have a key?"
You: "I prefer not to answer the question, am I free to leave?"
As you can see, even asking questions can lead you into the same uncomfortable situation.
The best bet is to just tell LE that, other than providing ID if requested, that you prefer to answer no questions and ask if you are free to leave.
If they let you leave, thank your lucky stars and leave.
(still not a lawyer)
Starting of a simple answer to a question like what are you doing hear by answering "take the fifth" is sure to peak LE interest in you. I visit friends and we meet in hotels all the time for sex. It is not illegal. A simple, "it personal is more then enough, if pressed there is nothing wrong with repeating it personal" and moving away. Have you guys gone to so many hotels for pay for play you forget their are many reasons to be in a hotel. This includes meeting a girlfriend for sex at a hotel and only staying a few hrs.
Doc
Sometimes I think I live in hotels more than my home. So yea, if LE asks just say you were meeting a friend. Honestly, that should suffice for anything possible. Unless they literally catch you coming out of the room with your pants in your hand and an envelope of money in the other...or shall I say, I believe I could convince a jury of my peers (or a judge as it would probably just be him/her) that even though my friend may be doing someting illicit, I wasn't really there to break the law, I just wanted to see my friend who was visiting. (Visiting from where? Who cares, if she lives down the street, she is still visiting that hotel, right? Friend? Yes, she's paid to be your friend, anything else that happens happens.)
My thoughts, feel free to poke as many holes as you want into them, it won't bother me. Honestly, I was more fearful 10 years ago when I was in this hobby than now when I have returned to the hobby. Cops are jerks the world around...don't believe me? Try being a guy and getting out of a ticket.
yes it will make them suspicious.
you don't get convicted by a cop's suspicions, you get convicted by incriminating statements and evidence.
suspicious is nothing.
cops are always suspicious of everybody.
the rules of polite conversation do not apply here.
if the nice policeman wasn't invited into your life by you, you should always just lose your hearing when in their presence because every word is a lie told to trick you into convicting yourself of some crime you probably didn't even commit... you don't understand the question because YOUR ATTORNEY ISN'T PRESENT.
no hablo ingles.
deaf & dumb but not stupid.
all they want from you is a detail that only you would know, then they use that detail against the girl to scare her into confessing since they already "know" everything anyway.
well, it doesnt matter what they "know", what matters is what they can prove and if they could prove anything, they wouldn't need to ask you any questions, they would just put the handcuffs on you.
thats why you ask if you're free to go.... if they don't put handcuffs on you, start walking away as if you're aware of your rights.
let them tackle your ass to the floor and taser you because you didn't answer their question.
win a jackpot, don't forget my commission.
I know they will try and get me to talk anyway they can but it seems there should be some practical answers for explaining my presence in a hotel. Isn't being up in the room area's of a hotel without a destination trespassing?
and a fine fine job of lawyering,
http://www.sextraffickingvictims.org/forum/attachments/conviction_overturned_phx_due_process_5th.pdf
also notice that the dude answered questions prior to getting arrested.
had he not answered those questions and did ye ol deaf man walkaway, he probably wouldn't have gotten arrested because if they could've arrested him without the questions, they would've.
at least he was smart enough to shut up after the handcuffs slapped on.
Each time they ask a question, simply state:
"No offense to you officer, but I would like to speak to a lawyer before I answer any questions."
Be polite and respectful at all times.
You do, however, have to show ID if asked.
There is at least some chance that LE might just tell you to take a hike as they can see that you are not a push over. Smart LE won't waste their time on you when they know there are plenty of pushovers who will spill their guts the moment that they flash a badge.
(still not a lawyer)
I don't know if this is any help but do not see providers who use locations where the rooms have outside doors. Super easy to survail. I prefer to park away from the main entrance... park near a wing exit. I go in the main entrance of course. I try to keep my sense of direction inside. When I leave her, I use the exit stair & out the door to my car. Yup, the door is a key card entrance, but I'm only going out! If her room is in the other wing, I walk to the correct wing on a different floor (if possible).
You can help avoid arousing the suspicions of hotel staff by getting dirrections from her, through the door & to the elevators so you look like you know where you are going. I like to carry a computer case, gym bag or small piece of luggage (expect her to want to see what's in it... no cameras or recording devices).
Just my thoughts,
skb
Suspicions of hotel staff are often reported to be the most common reason for busts aside from stings. You never know how closely they're monitoring comings and goings, including what's shown on the hallway cams. I believe desk clerks can be sharper than we may realize at spotting intruders, no matter how purposeful we act. None of this is such an issue with rooms that open to the parking lot. So, isn't it a matter of which threat is more likely at a particular hotel and in each community: snoopy staff or outdoor stakeouts?
I agree that the safest of all settings is probably a large hotel with a busy lobby. Alas, in my area, there aren't many and even fewer that escorts set up shop in.
Actually, I believe you might be surprised. People come and go at all hours in Hotels/Inns and for many different reasons. There are friends, family, people staying there, people visiting people there, deliveries (laundry, soaps, towels, food, pizza, whatever) and there are generally technicians there as well because a lot of them travel.
As for going out a side entrance, most of the hotels I have been at have fire-alarms on those doors. Maybe my class of hotel is too high?
however, some desk clerks learn to notice patterns in what to us may seem too random to follow. At least according to police reports about suspicions arising from observations like an attractive young woman checking in alone, soon followed by a middle aged male visitor who leaves after one hour. It comes down to which fear troubles you more, the staff you pass by who may not be as oblivious as they appear or the unseen vice cop who may or may not be out there watching.
Perhaps, but I would think it would not register on a clerk's radar either. I would think that a clerk would't really register who is coming in or out of the hotel and when, if they did, I would have been arrested a long time ago! Not for the hobby, but because I tend to flit in and out of my hotel rooms at random intervals to begin with. I forget a tool, I need to check something on my laptop, I want a short nap, I'm just bored, whatever. Young ladies may be checking in, then heading out to go shopping at the Mall of America or headed out to Disney World.
Vice, on the other hand, well, they are already there for a reason anyway.
One key is to go dressed appropriately - if its a business class hotel/motel, someone entering dressed in a coat and tie and who walks confidently past and to an elevator/hall is not apt to draw much attention. If your lost or confused, (i) go to and use the ground floor restroom and give yourself a chance to settle down and avoid looking confused, or (ii) take the elevator to a floor, any floor, so you don't appear confused in the lobby.
In hotels with conference/meeting facilities, sometimes its best to go to that area first, then use a restroom, then reappear after a few minutes and use the closest elevator - that gives a break from the attention of anyone watching and hopefully they may be looking elsewhere (or not be in a line of site) when you emerge.
In hotels with garages, use the garage, and take the elevator straight up.
Ask the provider in advance what the layout is, and get a heads up on which way to turn and walk before getting out of your car.
if you have to sit/wait in an open parking lot, just hold you cellphone up and move your lips like you are talking - that way it looks less like you are loitering/waiting, and if asked why you are there by LE, simply tell them you had to make a call and wanted to be a safe driver so you pulled off the road to make the call. If you do have to sit/wait, look around in the lobby, you can also fake a cell call - just talk, pasue as if carrying on a conversation - few people will interupt someone in the middle of a call (just have a made up script for a call about dinner plans, meeting friends, in your head and talk the part as you walk.
Most hotels now have video surviellence in place anyway - whether you see it or not, so a record is being made - not much you can do about htis, just be aware of this.
If you get on an elevator and other folks are on, always be the last one to push the button - and if they hit the button for your destination floor, hiot a button for a higher floor - go there, then get off and take anopther elevator down (after giving them time to clear the hall).
If your in the hall and other folks are in it too, don't knock or go in the destination room, instead walk to the end or down the opposite direction - or if they stay out there, leave and call the provider and ask that she leave the door ajar so when you return you can go straight in without having to knock and wait while eyes of others stare at you.
When leaving, quickly glance down the hall, if others are there, carry one a fake conversation as you leave- eg "i'm going to pull the car from the garage-I'll meet you at the front in 5 minutes
Vice, on the other hand, well, they are already there for a reason anyway.
When I was new to the hobby I was waiting outside a motel for a girl who was running late (stupid I know) and was questioned by LE, I was scared shitless but managed to pull a plausible explanation out of my ass, one guy talked to me for ten minutes and I just sat there and lied through my teeth while the other guy ran my plates. They had nothing on me and let me go although I'm sure they figured I was there to purchase either substances or companionship. From then on I always tried to concoct a cover story before any appointment just in case, the problem with this is if you are caught in a lie then you are screwed. It may look suspicious to refuse to talk to them but I now believe this is the best response. The link I have attached here has informed my thinking on this matter.
I love the video you linked, and Ive shown it to several friends in the past. But it does not answer my question about the initial contact. If i go with the 5th right away, I may engender more suspicion then I would if I had an explanation, which i do not.
For example, an off duty cop working hotel security for some extra $$ stops me on the floor and asks what room I am looking for. If i immediately take the 5th, he could reasonably arrest me for loitering, pat me down find the white envelope but as long as I keep my mouth shut, all he has me for is loitering.. But now he is suspicious of prostitution or drug trafficking in the hotel because of my thick white envelope. Where if I said I am seeing a friend in room X, he may have let me pass, or conversely I may have incriminated myself because he is watching room X for prostitution.
Its a dilemma for me and there does not seem to be a clear cut answer.
Some are limited to identification only but others, like the Arkansas statute, authorize the police to ask you to give a reasonably credible account of the lawfulness of your conduct and purposes.
If you refuse to answer, you can be arrested for loitering. So it is worthwhile to check the statute in your state and see what the minimum amount of info is you must provide.
for being in a hotel as for walking down a public street?
specific statute in your state but the Arkansas statute for example would apply even if you are on hotel property "without apparent reason." So if you are walking into that hotel carrying a suitcase I don't think they could stop you - but if you are just heading up to a room without a suitcase or visible room key, they could:
5-71-213. Loitering.
(a) A person commits the offense of loitering if he or she:
(1) Lingers, remains, or prowls in a public place or the premises of another without apparent reason and under circumstances that warrant alarm or concern for the safety of persons or property in the vicinity and, upon inquiry by a law enforcement officer, refuses to identify himself or herself and give a reasonably credible account of his or her
presence and purpose;
Would not the last part of that statute: "...give a reasonably credible account of his or her presence and purpose;" be a violation of his or her Fifth Amendment right against self incrimination?
I wonder if there is any case law on the federal level that challenges this.
Nobody knows what happened between two consenting adults in private. Nobody. The rest is up to you
There IS a key card door at the end of each ground floor corridor. The stairwell is off the first floor corrider, through a fire door... CORRECT! The stair well door direct to the outside may be fire alarmed. Just go through into the ground floor corridor 2 steps & exit through the key card door. Most often the key card doors are locked 24/7 but occasionally hotel only lock them at night.
When I check in to a hotel, it is through the lobby/front desk. I always move my car arround to the nearest outside door to bring in my luggage. I have had the door unlocked when I checked in but when I returned from dinner it was locked & I had to dig out the key card. (Don't carry your key card next to your cell, or you'll be back at the office getting the card reprogrammed.)
Obiviously I don't stay in high rise hotels... It could still be done. I HAVE gotten off the elevator on the second floor & walked out.
In my jurisdiction one MUST provide verifiable identification. Name and address. That's it. If LE later finds a crime was committed they can come find you. I'm not leaving any dead bodies in the hotel & I really don't think LE is going to call to inquire about a misdemeanor that they can't prove I have a link to.
This has been discussed before. LE can make false statements to us... if you make a false statement to LE you can be charged with making a false statement &/or obstruction. It is better to clam up. The questioning technique is to ask simple innocuous questions initially then you'll feel pressured to keep answering as they get further afield.
On one occasion, I was stopped by a Trooper for an MV equipment violation... said trooper tried to get me to say something incriminating. I answered him truthfully, so he could not bust me. Then I clammed up. There was nothing I could say. He wrote the defective equipment as a moving violation since I was driving it that way... I paid the fine & considered myself lucky.
skb
marikod brings up a good point... Loitering is to remain in an area without a proper purpose... which would raise the suspicion of an illicit purpose (though this is not in the charge). I have been observed closely by LE in a hotel parking lot. I was out of my car & moved directly toward the entrance. I brought this up to the lady who stated that LE had been asked to patrol because of thefts from vehicles. So Loitering is unwise.
I often arrive in advance of the time, lest I be delayed in traffic or have trouble locating it. But then I withdraw to the corner coffee shop paying closeattention to the time needed to return. I often call from the coffee parking so I can avoid sitting in the lot at all. Once, this almost back-fired as the lady asked where I was, that she could not see me (from her window overlooking). I could see the door from the coffee & she met me at the door. Ladies I've seen before, know that I do this...
As far as interactions with LE... a lot depends on the hotel's attitude. Some hotels do not wish to involve LE, but ask the lady to leave. I know that some hotels ignore low volume ladies where higher profile providers are not welcome. I'm sure there are some hotels who inform LE...
The reason I prefer to use an alturnative exit is not so much to avoid questioning as it is to reduce the obivious traffic... staff has more to do than just sit & watch monitors. So they would not know exactly what time I left... on the hour...
skb
...is a must. If he wants her name, just refuse and tell him to look up "discreet" in the dictionary. And tell him to listen to this song...
That sounds workable to me. I am here to meet/I was here meeting... my lover and we are both in other relationships so I will not divulge any other information (lover leaves the sex of the liaison in doubt and doubles the amount of x-checking they might have to do). Any follow up response is "officer no disrespect to you but I refuse to answer without advice from counsel".
This video (2 parts) explain why you need to shut up and not answer any questions other then your full name.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8z7NC5sgik
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08fZQWjDVKE
The answer is your name. Everything you say will be used against you. So STFU. Don't answer their questions unless you want to get yourself and the lady busted.
Now what should you say? You ask.
This statements and questions should be used as needed.
"I chose to remain silent."
"I request my lawyer", "I want a lawyer." or "I want to exercise my right to have legal counsel."
"I do not submit to searches with out a warrant."
"Am I free to go or am I being detained?"
I found this video (4 parts) useful in explaining that to do if you are confronted by LE.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmrbNLt7Om8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKPutNg88bA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REJ2RsLp1Kk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUv3A4hscc0
Please learn your rights, use them and shut up when talking to police. One more suggestion, be nice about not talking to them. Don't talk and be plain about it, but be nice and polite when letting them know.