but that doesn't stop hot-shot publicity seeking DAs from trying while wringing their hands and crying about children being forced into prostitution, etc.

I'm anxious to see where this goes.

It could be a big hit for the First Amendment.

Referencing the story in the NYPost, just what are the illegalities of running a hobby web site.  Obviously, TER is one.  Now I suspect the biggest difference, as in real estate, is location, location location....of the server.  But is just the ownership/administration of a hobby website a crime?  And just how are we hobbyists that post on a hobby site legally "at risk"?  I recognize that getting "busted" for solicitation is unfortunately clearly illegal.  But the hobbyists that post on a site aren't "Johns" just because they posted on a hobby site, are they?

Upon reading more on this, LE is charging him with running a "prostitution ring"and that allegedly 40 providers were working for him and that all site members were "clients".  WTF?  That would translate to all ladies reviewed on here worked for TER and all members are "Johns".  The site was nothing more than a local hobby board akin to TER in a relatively small metro market.  It's a non-fee site.  The professor stated he made no money on it...that he just did it as a "hobby" (his words...LOL)  Looks like LE is really stretching it here. I would hope any decent attorney can successfully defend him, but the fallout for him and those members could be unfortunate to say the least.   It'll indeed be interesting.

Specifically, is it illegal to just run a hobby website?  I guess if the servers are located overseas, it's then okay?

First there is a question of legality based on jurisdiction, if it is legal in the jurisdiction where the server and the firm are based then there is no problem. Getting arround this barrier is difficule. If the activity is illegal in the jurisdiction where the firm or server is based then the activity may be illegal; however to be illegal the site would have to go beyond reporting about who and what activities are going on and move into facilitation of the illegal activities so it could fall prey to pandering. However, the laws on prostition and pandering although similiar throughout the fifty states, do vary and you would have to find a jurisdiction where the definition of pandering is very loose and does not require a furtherance of the act. Taking money from providers or hobbyists to facilitate their commerce is what the DA would be looking for. it might not fly in places like New York or California but might fly in Nevada or places like New Mexico.
Oh shit, is that the FBI at the door? Excuse me while I shed this condom and see what they want.

The twisted sensationalistic  presentation of this story in the local NM media make me sick.  Everything has been slanted against the accused.  How can it possibly be illegal to discuss any subject?  My god, you can find websites devoted to the discussion of legalizing drugs or promoting white supremacy, activities which themselves may be illegal or simply disgustingly offensive.  That does not render one's right to discuss them illegal.  Now they have arrested a second person, a woman who helped start up the Southwest Companions website years ago and has been absent and inactive for quite a while and charged her as well.  The Police who investigate such activities are known in their own circles derogatorily as the pussy patrol.  They are incapable of fighting real crime, so they get put on these duties.  The only result of which is to scare the shit out of innocent people and ruin the reputations of others.  Where the fuck is the ACLU when you need them?

He apparently required each member be documented as paying for sex with female members.  Access was given once the provider reported back that she'd seen the candidate, had sex with him and included what was paid.    I'm guessing there's an electronic trail.  

btw none of this would have happened if some of his own female members would have retained a lawyer once busted during non-associated local stings.    

Of course, I'm making these assumptions through news articles ...  

They also stated in one article that through this investigation, they had infiltrated Date-check and P411.  

I certainly don't think he's a pimp, but he did make some monumental mistakes and should have talked to a lawyer long before he came up with this verification system.  I really don't think this had anything to do with freedom of speech.  

We'll see if they can make this stick since this man wasn't paid.  It might be a good one to watch because it could effect membership sites where verification is used to up a members status, reduced rates for reviews, white lists and free membership for referrals....  

It's always a good idea to be out of US jurisdiction either way.

When I was a little kid, my dad would give me a few dollars and send me on my bike accross town to a bakery that sold jelly donuts, and with every dozen you got a free one. They called it a baker's dozen. Well we all know where that  free donut got lost, somewhere down the corridor of time.
I do not have all the details but if the news media is correct when it says that somewhere money changed hands from subscribers or providers advertising their services; if that is true or if arrangements were made to facilitate meetings, then the activity, though useful and helpful for people like us, can be challenged as illegal pandering and they go after the  owner of the site. If the activity is found to be illegal, or if the DA wants to "make his boner" then get set for legal bills and charges., any one who was involved in the enterprise, even years back, will be charged. (provided within the statute of limitations)
This is not an area where the ACLU ventures as a rule, so don't expect them to enter the arena. They like to enter where they find a right that exists has been violated, here here is no right to prostitution except in rare out of the way places like Pahrump Nevada. You see, it is ok to talk about illegal drugs on a website, but facilitating prostitution is  not ok if the site is vulnerable due to location or ownership. No doubt a DA who wants to could make trouble for out of the USA sites such as this, but it is a lot easier to go after guys who have shallow pockets and cannot easily afford a defense. Look at Blogodocia, or what ever his name from Chicago who is accused of selling Obama's senate seat. That ex-governor is now a poor slob, and I mean poor as a result of having to foot the bill fighting a government prosecutor with unlimited funds and numerous attorneys. So don't ask what happened to freedom in America, it ain't free no more!



-- Modified on 6/23/2011 5:52:27 PM

There are 3 levels of membership, one for newbs that lets you read the boards, then two other levels once you've 'proven' yourself.  I never saw the more restricted sections of the board but it seems that people were quite explicit in detailing their illegal activities.

I signed up out of curiosity but never posted or saw anyone from the board.  I'm worried as hell that they will just track me down for questioning anyway and make my life miserable.
It ooks like they are employing some scare tactics (see link) so not too sure how much I should worry.  I do know they could find me though.

It has to be fought for with each generation.

Our battle is looming.

Get in shape!

We (Americans) do not now, nor have we EVER been free to openly discuss ANY and EVERY subject.

Get a couple of buddies, and go to an airport lounge. Order some beers and have a discussion that everyone can hear. See what happens if you talk about how our Founding Fathers took up arms against an oppressive government, and that 200 years later maybe its time for that to happen again.  (I dont believe this ITS JUST AN EXAMPLE) Now time how long it takes for you to be detained

Don't think habeas corpus is going to get you out of detained, uncharged custody before you try that experiment.

If you simply speak about unlawful things in certain ways, you may risk being detained, arrested, charged or convicted of a crime.

What is "legal" or "illegal" is up to constant reinterpretation by the courts. While enforcement of ANY law is up to the personal discretion of the police arm or the prosecutorial arm of any government agency that deems itself to have jurisdiction of a matter. And LE can really fuck you over, long before a court can intervien.

The policies of such LE offices can always be traced back to an ELECTEC official or someone appointed by an elected official. When such an official decides to turn the resources of his/her agency toward a specific area, they will do it.

This human element is the basis for the tremendous inconsistancies in LE that we citizens see every day. It is a characteristic of our legal and justice system that will never, ever change.

The absolute BEST way to steer clear of being a target is to remain low key and under ths radar.

No matter what anyone tells you, if a government agency with the right amount or resources targets something or someone, that target will take a hit of some kind. There WILL be damage.

Even if criminal convictions are not successful, the agency knows it will do damage to the what they are after. They will look at that as a partial success. If they can't "destroy their target" they will at least be able to reduce and deter it; in their eyes that is.

In 'the hobby' everyone takes that risk. Even being here at TER is a risk, as it is not out of the reach of US federal and state agencies.

On top of all that, the Patriot Act allows these agencies to use, at their free will, techniques and technologies which previously required enough proof of potential illegal activity to convince a judge to allow them to use these tools to further see if a case could be built.

There was a sort of checkpoint, if you will, that kept the agencies from breaching freedoms, through surveilance, gathering records, etc, in trying to build a case. You know, the old saying: "they'd have to get a court order to do that."

Not any more.

The goverment is using these new methods far beyond their original stated intent. They are using them for "morality crime" e.g. pornography, prostitutions, etc. They reach across state lines amd national lines.

They now can take their time, with no need for court approval, watching and gathering information, building cases, sometimes slowly over a long period of time, even if there was nothing to indicate or warrant such scrutiny in the first place.

Where's the ACLU? They've been castrated in the process, since LE doesn't have to get the courts involved early on for approval.

Basically, we're all fucked.  

Be Happy! Play Safe! Don't Break the law!


HH

Hi Beagle. thanks for posting, you seem very well informed on the legal aspects and implications.  But just for the record: the news media are NOT correct when they say that somewhere money changed hands from subscribers or providers advertising their services.  To the very best of my knowledge, this site was always free for all members, male or female.  If any of them chose to contact one another, either via the website's private messaging center or via any other means, it was done without the participation of the web administrators or other members.  

Assuming that I am correct, the authorities will be unable to "follow the money" because there's no money to follow.  Not that there is anything illegal about running a for-profit business.  We all know how many pay-to-play adult websites exist.  But if there is no money, isn't all the noise in the media about racketeering and pimping absurd?

they'll be done investigating well before they come across you.

On Friday the Albuquerque Journal had a picture of the Police's Org chart which indicated their membership count is based on the highest of the three levels of membership.  If you did not attain that level then you probably have even less to worry about.  It would be difficult to argue that you had much to do with the site if you couldn't even get through the requirements of this highest level.  This investigation seems to be turning to issues of promoting prostitution, which in their minds is about inviting providers to come visit, and recruitment, rather than writing reviews or posting comments about providers.  

I was not in the highest tier also and while I am breathing easier, I am fearful of the over zealous nature of LE and their desire to embarrass as many people as possible and our local media's willingness to sensationalize every development.  

and when we hear about cases that we are not involved in we have to go by the new media reports until we learn the actual facts, but we know we may be dealing with misinfo

This is unjust, not cool at all, to put it politely. It's bad enough the law can mess with you in person, charging members of a free hobby message board is a new level of crazy.