Well, after posting it on the LA board, it seems that I just might need some legal suggestions, so here I am. Please read all the way to the end before start calling me a dumbass (which I won't disagree mind you.)

I used to visit Jessie Lee in Pasadena who works under Crystal from time to time. But when I tried to set up another appointment earlier this year, there's no answer. I figure they've closed shop and all so didn't really bother with it. So, fast forward to today, I got a call from the Pasadena Police Department and get to talk to a detective from there. Turns out they had busted Crystal's whole operation, but Crystal went on the defensive and going to court on this. Now they're trying to get some confirmation on the information they have and they're calling up numbers on Crystal's contact list.

I must admit that at first when he said he's from the Pasadena PD, I was more then a little worried. But he assure me that it's not about me and they're just trying to confirm all the info they have so they can give it to the DA to present the case and avoid going to court and what not. Since he knew from all the info Crystal keeps that I've indeed paid for their service and what not, I see no reason to lie and answered couple of this questions. He told me my name and number would indeed be given to the DA in order to present the case and such.

The detective mentioned that a lot of the others they contacted out right lie about it and deny on these thing. I can totally understand this. Personally I'm single and more or less live by myself, so if they really need to contact me, it's no big deal. But I can see the problem for some others who got the call for sure.

In any case, my fellow hobbist on the LA board, after reading the post, had more or less blasted me as a dumbass for admiting to the detective about anything and points out to me that I might now be in trouble myself. Now, I'm never really good with these kinda things that involves police, so can anyone give me some suggestions and such? Would it be possible to call the detective (he left me with his name and number) and revoke my statement or something like that? What's the chance of me ending up in the court either being prosecuted or as a witness? Thanks for any advice ahead.

Why is it that people's mind turns to mush the instant they speak to LE.

It isn't that difficult. You have the right to remain silent. USE IT!!!

All the OP had to do when contacted by LE was to invoke his 5th ammendment rights. Politely of course, but firmly. Something along the lines of "I am sorry officer, but I don't believe it is in my best interest to have a discussion regarding a potentially criminal matter without the benefit of counsel", thank him, and wish him a nice day. End of story.

Next time, man up and don't throw some poor provider under the bus.

You say that "he knew from all the info Crystal keeps that I've indeed paid for their services..."

You don't know squat.

You've been had by a fishing expedition.

Next time:

STFU, at least until you've spoken to your lawyer.

This should be the mantra of every hobbyist.

(still not a lawyer)

-- Modified on 9/21/2010 11:36:14 AM

Your response to police pressure is normal, most people are intimidated by a police interview and try to be cooperative. You are not required to give info but it seems at that moment like the best thing to do. Usually it is not and it is better to remain silent as you are dealing with professional investigators who know how to wring a mop head dry.  I did not call you a dumb ass.

You did not have to give info but since you have, just sit tight and hope they do not call you to testify. If they do you might want to review possible testimony with your attorney. It would be best not to retract anything at this point but if they call again just say you have nothing new to add and are finished being interviewed. If you were not Mirandized,  then the info you gave would probably not be admissible if it were to be used against you. They may want you for a witness to her operation but a lot of these cases are pleaded out and never get to court. Keep us posted of any new developments.

What is done is done and you can't take it back.  

If you get contacted by the detective again just politely explain that you don't feel comfortable answering questions without your attorney present.

This will immediately tell you whether you have anything to worry about.  If the detective starts badgering you over the phone about suddenly not wanting to cooperate or even insinuating that failure to cooperate could have negative consequences then you know they were planning on popping you all along once you said enough.

If the detective accepts this answer and requests that your attorney set up a time for you to answer some questions then likely you are exactly what he says you are, a source of corroboration and not worth seeking charges against.

Why do I say this?  For this simple reason, if they just wanted information from you and if having your attorney present gets them the information they want then they will not be put out by it.  Your actions have not negatively affected their ultimate goal of pinning charges on the provider.  However if their plans were to give you the rope to hang yourself with then your sudden course correction puts a dent in their stat sheet and they will likely react negatively before they even realize what they are doing.

Either way it goes just remember that the District Attorney is the one with the power to make legally binding deals, not Larry the Lawman.  Larry can look the other way in exchange for your help but he is not allowed to formally make a deal to ignore your illegal actions.  Larry can come back on you later and there is nothing you can do.  Once a DA makes a deal it is sealed and over.  In fact if the DA's office contacts you don't be surprised if they suggest your attorney be present before you get a chance to say it.  If they are building a case against the provider and need your cooperation they will do everything they can to prevent you from clamming up on them.

This was a friggin PHONE CALL... they can not even prove you were the person on the other end of the phone.  It could have been anyone and that anyone could have told them anything.  There is nothing in that phone call that could be used in court.  

Secondly, SHUT THE FUCK UP.  If they call you again, tell them to contact your lawyer and give them the name of some lawyer out of the phone book.   Let them spin their wheels trying to get through to him - and they won't bother because they know any lawyer would laugh at them and hang up.  

Third, WERE you called to court, the Fifth Ammendment would apply:  "I refuse to answer on the grounds...yadda... yadda....yadda.'  

Given that you have no Significant Other that might answer your phone, you really don't have anything to worry about.  If you aren't busted 'in the act,' they aren't going to make a case against you 99.9999% of the time.  Its just not worth the effort.

My .02

MVR

MVR

Also, how many providers keep an accounting spreadsheet? For doing income taxes?  They found a number, and went fishing.  Any information that is/was incriminating would have to have been given to them by you.  They can't prove what you paid her for without catching you in the act now.

the cop gives your information to the da.
the da presents it to her attorney.
they'll tell her attorney that you agreed to testify, regardless of whether you have or not because they aren't really planning on going to trial.

they just want her to cave in and plead guilty so oh yes siree bob they will pull your name out of the hat, along with your statements and present it to her.

there's no law against being a dumbass.

you couldn't pull a oldie and just say "i don't remember"
nobody can prove you do remember.

i know my memory is selective as sh*t



modification for minor spelling error and tone

-- Modified on 9/22/2010 7:31:34 AM

Thanks for all the insight and advice fellow hobbist. Will just keep my mouth shut from now on for sure. Lesson learned... -_-

but you certainly owe "Crystal" an apology. This whole thread has been about you, and the consequences only to you. I am sure Crystal appreciates being thrown under the bus. Sometimes I really wish "stupid" was a criminal offense, you'd be doing life.

BTW, it's extrememely unlikely but LE still has cards to play to "make" you testify. If they really want to be pricks about it, they can counter your fifth ammendment rights by offering you immunity from prosecution, if you then refuse to testify they can charge you with contempt. If you had just kept your big mouth shut, none of this would be possible, but you opened the door through your foolish actions. I hope you at least get a couple of sleepless nights for your stupidity. If you haven't noticed, I don't have much patience for stupid actions that effect other people.

This should be a lesson to providers as well. We all know you keep records, and most of your claims as to destroying personal info after verification are bullshit. Keeping personal info can be a double edged sword, and this is just one instance on how it can come back to bite you in the ass. Still doesn't excuse the behavior of the OP.  People, THINK before you act.

I'm not a lawyer, but your post could be considered a written admission that corroborates your verbal discussion with LE, as this could be traced back to your computer. Another lesson is not to admit to anything in writing on the internet.

it would not be a written admission, it would not be admissible under most circumstances, and it has already been posted and noted if it were, but thanks for your concern for another hobbyist

Just don't answer the phone (I assume it's a cell phone) unless you recognize the number. Let whoever is calling leave you a message. Another also is to make sure that your cell phone voicemail message doesn't snnounce your name. Ciao!

I would suggest something that include phrases like, I don't recall such an event. I cant answer any questions without my attorney present.   I believe any further believe this line of questioning is violating my 5th amendment rights.   Bottom line educate your self before that call ever comes and you wont feel like a "dumbass".   Remember the most important rule: You have the right to remain silent.  And that is if your being charged.  The only one who can make you talk is yourself or a judge.   And if that were to happen LE must think you've got some thing pretty interesting to say,  I'm not saying lie, but memory can be a funny thing and there are not a lot of DA's that are gonna call a witness to the stand if there not sure of there testimony.  IMHO
Doc

I am not an attorney. This is not legal advice.

I think if you ask EXPERIENCED Criminal Defense Attorneys, you will get advice something like this:

DO NOT TALK TO THE POLICE EVER! (not refering to reporting a crime here!)

Tell them your name, and verify where you live. Present your ID if you are face-to-face. Give them no consent to search your person or possesions for any reason.

When they ask you any question, reply by asking them if you are under investigation or under arrest. After they answer that, tell them you have nothing to say. If face-to-face, ask if you are free to go. If they tell you you must cooperate as part of an investigation or that you are under arrest, simply say "I cannot answer any question unless my attorney is present."

Say it over and over and over and over.... get the idea.

DO NOT LIE. EVER. Not even the brush off lies as some have suggested.

Am I under arrest? Am I under investigation? Am I free to go? I cannot answer any questions without my attorney present.

THAT'S IT

COPS ARE "SMARTER" THAN YOU IN THIS AREA

Police are trained and practiced manipulators, and are instructed to lie as part of the manipulation. Everything they tell you is a lie. And even if they tell you the truth, deal with it like it is a lie. That may sound cynical, but it gives you that most protection.

For what has happened to you so far. Don't speculate, if you are worried contact a defense attorney now. Or wait. But in your situation, if I were contacted again, I would not say anything except what if witten above and I would call a lawyer.

REGARDING MIRANDA,it's been starting to crumble. The laws recently changed giving LE broader scope and reducing the Miranda protections.



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