Will try to make this short, but I need some advice...

Background: I was in the Marines, fell in love with martial arts, have practiced it for 10 + years. Good way to exercise, get rid of anger, etc.
About 7 years ago, this guy at a club was showing off, kept making comments about my girlfriend. I asked him nicely to stop and just let us be. Dude kept at it, then came up to me. I clocked him once in the face, knocked him out, broke his jaw, knocked out a few teeth, broke his nose. I was arrested because I was the one who threw the punch first, even though he came at me. Lawyer told me that juries are often dumb as rocks and to take my chance with them would make it worse. So, I spent a few months in jail. Jail obviously sucks. I never want to go back, so I have spent years just trying to ignore dirtbags and walk away from fights.

A few days ago in the gym:

This meathead comes up to me and asks me to hurry up because he wanted the machine I was on. I finished my sets and left. He follows me up the stairs and begins jawing at me about how I took too long and now he was going to be late, etc. This guy was on drugs or roids or something. But I turned around, face to face with the guy and I was about 5 seconds away from knocking the dude out. He may have got a few good shots on me, but I guarantee you I would have at least broken his nose. But I managed to keep my calm, because luckily another guy got between us.

So the problem is: I dont want to go to jail again. But it is getting harder and harder for me to avoid a fight. I am not the type of person to walk away from meatheads. I know if this guy comes at me again, I will be able to keep my calm, but if he swings at me, I know I am goign to hurt the guy badly.

Any advice on what I can do legally. I tried talking to the manager about calling the police so that I can take my lawyers advice and handle things legally. But the manager said he has this problem sometimes and the police say they cannot do anything about threats. Unless people actually fight, then they can do something.

Any advice from anyone.

I am not afraid of anyone. I am afraid of going back to jail and losing my freedom again though. Jail sucks because you are in a cage for days.

Please ...some advice ...guys... I am afraid I might hurt this guy badly if he comes up to me again...

SO I guess the question is: The police keep telling me that I cant do anything until he does something. But by that time, I am afraid I might hurt this guy badly if he comes up to me again and then I might end up in jail. So what can I do legally to build a case against the guy so that they can resolve it by arresting him before I have to hurt the guy badly?

What is the standard arrest criteria for a person who threatens you?

1. you need to attend an anger management workshop to learn how to deal with this
2. you need a full physical from a good internist, why? because sometimes high blood pressure can cause a person to be over aggressive and prone to violence
3. If you cannot handle this pain in the ass at the gym you can insist that the manager intervene and set this guy right, tell the manager you killed a guy once under similar circumstances and you want to avoid it. or
4. Buy the guy a bottle of booze and tell him it is a gift because the two of you got off on the wrong foot,  this is approach often turns an asshole into a"friend" and you will feel good because you still know he is an asshole.
5. file a temporary restraining order, you may need an attorney to do it right and every one will think you are over reacting but if no other choice then do it. This will prohibit him coming within a certain distance or from speaking or threatening you, if he violates he can be arrested.  If he violates it and you hit him you have a bit of an excuse as well to defend yourself with.
6. When this happens to me I drink a few beers at home and by the time a new day dawns I have it out of my system. It is not easy to learn how to walk away or drive away from idiots but keep walking, never stop, never exit the vehicle and do not respond, with time you will master it and laugh at these idiots! Sometime when you have  calmed down, a good sexual experience can get it out of your system. Talking about the incident with a friend sometimes is helpful.
7. ps-- please remember that your priors are the first thing that will be brought up in a court action if you get violent and it is hard to defend yourself from that point on.
Good luck, it took me years to learn how to deal with this and I slip back now and then!

-- Modified on 9/13/2010 10:48:15 PM

-- Modified on 9/13/2010 10:53:45 PM

if all else fails you are going to have to make sure you get bloody, preferably first in case there are witnesses, but certainly by the end of it.  If an altercation ends with him bloody and broken and you sporting only a bruised hand you're going to have to put on one heck of a legal show to avoid being sent back to the can.

See, the thing you have to remember is that it is incumbent upon people with superior training, equipment or skills to show the most restraint.  For example, a person with a concealed firearm permit has to be afraid for their life, not just afraid of getting beaten up, before they can use deadly force.  An ex-marine, martial artist, amateur boxer, etc are in the same boat as the person toting around a gun; they are the more dangerous weapon and need to show more restraint. If they take any action it will be considered escalating the encounter to a deadly matter and they will be made to defend that decision in front of a judge.

Unfortunately this is one of those situations where being right (i.e. the guy takes a swing at you first) is not always going to let you, the defender, off the hook for the results.  If he starts up a physical confrontation with you and you even wait for him to swing first your best bet is still going to be trying to subdue him with a hold and call for help, rather than just winning through outright superior technique (i.e. kicking his ass).

That being said, put the Gym on notice that this member has been hassling you and you want to avoid an altercation so they need to take written note of your complaint.  ASK FOR A COPY OF THEIR PAPERWORK showing the complaint.  You need to "pad in advance" so that if the worst happens it can be shown through witnesses, or evidence, that you took ACTIVE steps to try and avert the problem.  Doing so can actually transfer part of the blame to them for not properly dealing with the situation AFTER they were notified.

You are going to have to just take comfort in the fact that you can, if all else fails, break your foot off in this fellow and use that warm fuzzy image to grit your teeth and try everything else to avoid that result.

It is a non-violent martial art that allows you to re-direct the energy of another and channel it harmlessly to render the attacker inert.

After a fews applications, the attacker will understand that they can not harm you, and that you always come out on top.

I took a couple of lessons many years ago at my therapist's request, and it did wonders for me just knowing that I knew how to do this.

Since you are into martial arts anyways, it sounds like a good fit.

I hope you stay of of jail.

I would also suggest a better lawyer, but that's a different matter.

(still not a lawyer)

I am a former pro BB and everyone thinks they can get in my face.  I am 240 lbs and most of these guys seem to be  around 160.  I have learned to walk around in the gym with my ear buds in my ears and stare blankly when anyone says anything to me, even though my ipod isn't on.

I am also the guy everyone seems to pick a fight with in public.  Usually, they are drunk and obnoxious.  I have learned the hard way to walk away, after being arrested (no charges) and sued once they learn I have a few bucks.

People suck and look for reasons to get their asses kicked.  I decided to be better than them and walk away and chuckle.

There's been lots of good advice here... including LB's suggestion you take an anger management class.  You can also see a therapist.

What you should NOT do is to get into a physical altercation with the guy.

First of all, you have a record, even if he throws the first punch neither the police nor the judge will be likely to believe you because you have a record for this sort of thing already.  Even witnesses might not help.

Second, violence never solves anything.  

Third, and perhaps the most important... going to jail for assault is one thing.  Going to jail for murder is something else.  Yes, that's right, murder.  You wouldn't believe how many times one punch has been known to kill someone.  The person could bang his head on the way down and die.  Or the punch could hit the person JUST RIGHT and break a blood vessel causing blood aneurysm which leads to death, or hit him JUST RIGHT in the throat and break his neck, or whatever.  This sort of thing happens A LOT more frequently than you may think.  It's even more likely to happen if the guy is taking drugs, steroids or is drunk.

Personally, I'd just switch gyms...

You do need to work on de-escallating someone else's aggressive behavior.   There are different ways to walk away.   You want to avoid these confrontations, not do anything to continue them.  

If it seems likely that you'll run into a problem with someone again, I suggest you yes, report it to the gym but also if there is a threat you should report it to the Police.  Each & every time it happens.  No, it may not be actionable but if it is unavoidable at some future time, you want to have a record of their provocations.  If it's not reported, "it never happened."

I know cases where a neighbor feud boiled over.  When it did, the particpants listed a page of provocations that were never reported...  and now nothing can be done about it.

Any courses or efforts you make to learn how to defuse a confrontation will make you better able to handle it...  and how to show the steps you took to de-escalate the problem if the other party continues.
skb

in case things get hot and you have to put him in ICU.  The recording could help you build a self defense case.

But please check the legality in your state.  In my state (Massachusetts) if I don't have CONSENT of all parties in a recording, I could go to jail for up to 5 years!

http://www.rcfp.org/taping/states.html

Also, if an altercation happens in your home, the Castle Doctrine may apply and you have more legal protection if he has made an unlawful entry into your home and you end up hurting/killing him.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_doctrine#States_with_a_Castle_Law

Best of luck and stay safe!!!  Remember, pussy is more important (and fun) than spent cartridges!

I am advocating avoiding an altercation at all costs.  Switch gyms if you have to.  However, if you HAVE to hurt him, the pointers I gave in my previous post may reduce or eliminate your sentence.  

Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer.

he's a former body builder.

i know a lot of big guys have problems with other guys always wanting to start something with them so they can get a chance to take him down.

it's an "alpha-male" thing.

if he switches gyms, there will just be another guy who does it.

he's got to fix his head.
seriously dude, you are the problem..  you should be able to handle a verbal confrontation without needing to knock someone out. .. if you can't get your temper under control, then you belong in jail, i'm sorry.

Not saying somethings "wrong" with you, or anything at all like that. Just a friendly word, based on my similar experience.

The area you might want to consider working on is your reactions, mental and emotional. Again, not saying ther is something wrong with you.I'm not refering to common "anger management."  I'm talking about TRAINING and building your EI (emotional intellegence) just like you train physically and like you study to increase your mental intellegence.

I found a skilled therapist who worked with me (one of the techniques we used was EMDR) so that I would line up my in-the-moment emotional responses with my intellectual responses when I am away from the situation.

I gained what I consider a better, more controlled set of responses in situations that make you lose your temper. Sort of like a blance when things are no longer calm.

Good luck to you!

HalfHour