I understand that you MUST have a lawyer when talking to LE, no problems there, so lets not go there! This is not about that.

History tells us that Agencies are more than willing to give up our names to LE and save their own ass. DC Madam and MC and a few others come to mind in recent history. They run it as a business and they protect themselves as a business, any one of us would if we were in their position and I am not faulting them for doing that.

So what is wrong with a hobbiest (Through a lawyer) make a deal and give up the agencies? Please note that I said

1st - make a deal
2nd - give up the agency

(in that order)

I am not talking about independent girls as we don't hear of them giving up any names and also the ones I have met have been great ladies and I don't think they will give up a name to save their skin. Plus majority of them don't keep good records while agencies do.

This is an 'open' discussion, if you wish to hide behind an alias do so, but no cheep shots please, intelligent and constructive feedback is appreciated.

IOW rather than face a simple misdemeanor charge that is rarely more than a slap on the wrist, you have no problem selling an agency down the river for some pretty serious felony charges. If you can't see why that is just fucking wrong on your own, nothing I or anyone else has to say will open your eyes.

I won't offer any "cheap shots", but you might find it rather unhealthy to voice such sentiments around the guys I grew up with, you would probably find yourself needing some dental work at the very least.

I am not so naive as to belive that the majority of the spineless wimps that post on these boards would do exactly what you are contemplating in a NY minute. (or more acurrately a "DC minute"), but it doesn't make it (and them) any less detestable IMO.

Just asking this question puts you on my "must miss" list. I would never knowingly associate with someone with so little moral fiber. Normally I would end this post with a hearty "FUCK YOU", but I did say I wouldn't offer any cheap shots, so I won't. I will say I have nothig but contempt for anyone who would do such a thing.

The misdemeanor part of it is nothing (I agree), when your face and name is all over the internet as a 'John' that is something else.

I can see your point, you are obviously a better man than I am. So you are saying that faced with such a delima where you might lose face with your co-workers, family (if you have any) and friends, you would stand your ground and go down to save an agency owner (not talking about agency girls but the owners). Also note that I did not say independent girls in OP.

inner workings...  What is it that you think you have to bargain with?   Do you think that rolling over on someone will really do you any good?  I highly doubt it.
This is not the Goodfellows...  where you are going undercover to infultrate the mob!  

In the end, I think your atty will advise you to give them nothing...  because you have nothing to gain & everything to lose.  From a strictly selfish point of view, why would you give LE information when there is no benifit to yourself?

Remember LE can promise you anything but it is only the DA who has the power to make a binding plea contract.  All this over a misdeameanor bust (in most jurisdictions).

first time prostitution is a misdemeanor with no mandatory jail time (in Illinois it appears prostitution - as opposed to solicitation - is now a felony). The penalties typically imposed are not very burdensome.

       Plus LE prosecutes a small percentage of the persons known to engaged in such offenses. The DC madam's clients were not prosecuted at all as far as I know, only the DD clients who traded reviews for sex were prosecuted, and so far the MC clients are just waiting nervously.

     Conversely, agency operators are going to jail on multiple felony charges. So while I can't expect everyone to decline to save their own skin in favor of someone they don't even know,
there ought to be some honor among thieves here if you choose to participate in this illegal endeavor.

As an example, this was in the news (using google news to find it). Don't know any of these people but sounds like they are the type who put ads on BP or Eros and market 'international'  (to put it politically correct) providers.

They are now facing federal charges apparently, so what makes you think these fine citizens (well citizens of another country) would not give up their blackbook to upgarde their tickets back home from economy to economy plus?

don't hobby...plain and simply.  Fucking up your life is one thing...fucking up countless other people's is complete out of line.  How would you feel if you put a single mom away and her kids in foster homes. You obviously think of no one but yourself.  I'll be sure to add you to my personal DNS list and forward this link to everyone I know.  This is just plain dangerous.

before even considering such a thing, you should consult with an experienced criminal lawyer - don't be bluffed into thinking you are a gonner without getting competent advice (and that does not come cheap).  

If you've adhered to "best practices" as decribed on these boards, it will be difficult, if not impossible for you to be successfully prosecuted - and you either get off scott free or a plea deal to a minor charge is cut.  Just being arrested probably puts your name out there for the media, so whatever consequences flow from that are water over the dam.  If you've been careless enough to discuss the explicit exchange of payment for a sexual act (either verbally, by telephone, or by other email/electronic exchange) and there is recorded evidence of that - then your legal counsel will help you evaluate the pros and cons of deal or no deal - but in all probablility the worst damage (public revelation) has already been done.

So what is wrong with a hobbiest (Through a lawyer) make a deal and give up the agencies?
 
You should be on the National do not see list.
If you have info on a pedophile, pick up the phone, or take out the trash on your own.
Other than that ,don't be a rat.
Don't do the crime, if you can't do the time.

you would have to get proof of what you/they are doing so paying with marked money, conversations on telephone but I guess it sounds like a fun thing to do huh playing snitch and being paid for it.

You talk about the big agencies but lets not forget how many small agencies closed up while people asking what happened to this one or that one...thiose are the ones that did not give up your info or drowned the computer in the nearest river!

Anyway the big agencies did not just hand over the records to LE they were taken on computers out of the offcie with search warrants.
I think you watch the cop in Mayberry to much.

DC Madam did NOT get sentenced to 9 years for cooperating!  AND it is doubtful she actually committed suicide.  Did you even know about this?  

I got butsted in 03, did NOT cooperate and I did beat my case.  AFTER having to hire a second attorney because the 1st one took my money, told me "I was not being offered a plea bargain so I should plead guilty".  Second attorney kicked ass.  But I would NEVER cooperate with LE.  It is none of thier business who I fuck, and if I recieve a gift or not for sharing my puss.

What a wimp!

Jenni

-- Modified on 11/18/2010 9:19:29 AM

LE comes in with warrants and takes them.

then LE puts out false reports about the agency owners making deals and telling them everything about the guys, to scare guys and to make guys turn on the agencies and testify.

once an agency is busted, your information is no longer in their hands.

the cops have it and the only way to keep it out of the press is for the agency to be innocent.   if the agency is innocent, then you didn't do anything wrong and its defamation of character if the media tries to say you did.

if the agency is found guilty, it's open season and the police have to hand the evidence over to the press cuz its public record.  they can keep it from the press all through the trial cuz its evidence for a pending case.... during this time is when they bait the guys with it and tell the guys that the agency made a deal.

no no no
they do this especially when they need guys to come forward to testify cuz of lack of evidence.
how many times have you heard the agency being interviewed and saying they were going to turn anybody in ?

but if police told you the truth, you wouldnt be as cooperative.

I act like i'm scared and really want to take it, but just need to think it over.
i use the time to research my defense.

CLOWNS

i'd love to find an attorney willing to defend me.
so far, they've only tried to convict me.

there is not a plea deal on the planet that is better than "innocent".

once you plead guilty, you will always be guilty and the next time they bring you in FOR ANYTHING, the deal wont be sounding as nice cuz now you have a prior and good luck defending yourself because now you are known to be a guilty criminal.

i would not even plead guilty to littering iif the fine was free

I would never in a million years give up my client list, and yes even though I am a lowly provider I have much to loose beyond freedom. I give references, but I don't white list. That's how much I value keeping my clients safe.

Do you know what working with LE does? It breaks the golden rule of the hobby. Remember there is this lovely thing called kharma, and it is a bitch that will bite you where you least expect it. Today's provider could be in a position of power over you in the future.

Here is a little story to drive my point home:

When I was in highschool I volunteered in a program called Teen Court. Basically, it was through the juvenile justice system- peers judging peers. We had a real judge, lawyer assistance, and the sentences were very creative.

There was one paticular douchebag who felt regected by me, and spread some nasty rumors. Normally I was a defence attorney, but on this particular day I was filling in as a jury forperson. Wouldn't you know it douchebag was there for MIP. Let's just say he ended up picking up trash for a whole year, along with attending daily AA meetings.

Remember escorts do communicate with each other.

If you get busted, you're going to need the lawyer anyway, to minimize the damage.  Unlikely to have no damage but minimize it...  is quite doable.
To work out such a deal as OP suggests will cost you much more of the lawyer's time (read:  your money).  Your lawyer, in posession of the evidence & facts of the case, can best advise you on the rare occasions when your cooperation would be helpful to your case.
a

Man up, hire a lawyer, but don't  cut a deal.

Why would an agencies save computer records, or any records that cannot be destroyed very quickly, and put everyone at risk?

The agencies can cut deals with LE to lessen or reduce charges, i.e. "save themselves",  but we cannot cut deals with LE to "save ourself"?  WTF? Someone please explain why this is a one sided deal.

FOR THE RECORD, personal I would adhere to STFU, but that is me......

Some of you guys may not be familier with iknowsolo. He frequents the DC board. I suggest you leave this one with no response and, indeed, end the whole thread.

I know you mean well but it is not always a case of handing over your list of clients, sometimes the cops just grab your stuff and computer and bingo, the black book is public and seized as evidence...LB

ok, this has been interesting, but let's look at the differences between an agency and a john when it comes to criminal matters.

First, there's never a deal with the LE. if you're talking to the LE and they're trying to cut a deal, then here's two facts for you: 1, the LE has NO authority to cut a deal. 2, you've failed to exercise your 5th ammendment right, and you're now a toy for the LE.

An agency, if busted can be charged with a multitude of crimes as opposed the the john charged with a misdemeanor. If the feds are doing their unethical jobs, they have probably invited the IRS to "help" with the investigation. Why? If you're getting busted for running a prostitution ring, the IRS is going to want to know where the cash is. Of all the charges that are going to stick and have a heavy penalty, it's going to be a tax related charge. The bottom line is intimidation. The feds do it all the time. We all know they're not supposed to, but it's a reality. It's the prosecutor that you're going to cut a deal with, and that's only if you have something they want.

Personally, I believe they're publicity stunts when they do shake downs and get the media involved.

btw, if I remember correctly, Heidi Fleiss never gave up a name, and did 3 years for tax evasion.

because MC said they didn't keep records of clients.

and in the video, you will notice that while the reporter was talking about client records, they were showing video coverage of a bank ledger.

i think video coverage of this "reported" database with records of clients and their sexual preferences might have been more interesting, even if they had blocked out the names.

also notice, the press has been given some of the evidence.
i dont think laurie gave it to them.  
i think the cops did.
what do you think ?

i'm starting to believe they have no client records.
we have not actually seen any evidence of a client record.
only a bank ledger.

ROFL

don't fall for the bullshit.
you don't need to save yourself.
but if you think you do, you might convict yourself... thats what they want.

I can't think of how "making a deal" would help anyone, except LE, and the DA.  I think that in the end LE, and the DA will do what they want, and what they can to produce the best results for themselves.  So with that in mind always, just give them nothing.  Ashley's philosophy is sound.  If we can't be discreet when it actually counts, then what's the point?  The flap-jaw will get his/hers somehow, someday.

Hey Lady,

My attorney made the case look soooo stupid.  Like I said in prior response, first attorney I hired ripped me off.  He is a dick, and actually was getting off on promoting my fear.  He was dating a friend of mine and that is why I hired him.  He was in his late 50's and had been seeing my friend who was very young and vulnerable (he started seeing her at the age of 18).  She had been quite the orphan most of her life.  She was escorting and she was 22 when I met her.  He had a very odd control over her which I didn't recognize at first.  

When I did recognize that he was actually getting aroused when he was telling me to plead guilty, they weren't offering me a deal, and I was getting upset, he told me "I'm not here to make you feel good". (at that time most 1st offences got a reduced charge of disturbing the peace, that was hands down for guys, but spotty for providers).  1700.00 in his flippin pocket and out of mine for nothing.  You can't really fire an attorney that already has your money, all you can do is walk out short of that sum.

So I called another guy referred to me by a really well versed seasoned provider who had really been around, I was green in this venue (anybody remember Ginger?).  She kept telling me to call her guy so finally I did.  This guy ROCKED AND ROLLED!  He set it for trial, and smashed them all the while mock swinging a golf club as he was presenting his case prior to bringing in the jury.  I was scared just by his arrogance that I was gonna get killed.  Jury never made it in to the courtroom because the state was not ready.  Now granted he could have done the same thing, without charging me the initial 1500.00 (he gave me a 200 break due to the embarrasment of a collegue who treated me so badly, lol), but he is smart and in it for the money, so of course a trial day is 1000.00 each day.  So even though jury didn't happen, I had to pay him for that jury day.  But he did his job, did it well, and it was totally worth 2500.00 to me at the time.  Still would be.

So the case was beat due to the state not being ready as they so rarely have anyone take this charge to trial, that they could not produce a jury and it was the 30th day and my attorney had put in for "speedy trial".  Prosecutor countered that since I was not incarcerated that they had 10 more days beyond the 30 day thing.  BUT, there was some sort of writ that my attorney had submitted prior to the trial day that quashed the 10 day option for the prosecutor.  The judge didn't even know about this clause and had to take a 30 minute recess to look it up.  Came back out and dismissed.

That was SO cool!  He did tell me that normally he would never have done this had it not been summertime.   The solicitation charge is on the low end of the misdemeanor scale.  So since it was summertime, alot of people are on vacation, ya dee ya.  That this case would likely be on the back burner and the state would not be ready.  

If the jury had been arranged, he was going after "furtherance", and would have won because you can  cut illegal deals all day long, but without proof of "furtherance", they cannot convict.  It is really helpful when an attorney actually informs you and shares with you what his strategy is.  Of course this was done to prepare me if I were to go on the stand.  A good reason NOT to collect a gift until you have already become friends.  And never discuss your gift.  Just tell the gent to let you know how long he would like your date to last.  That's it.

Funny though, I have never been ripped off, I've been shorted a few times, very few but almost ALWAYS when shorted, it has been by attorneys.   What are ya gonna do, sue them?  LOL!

Jenni

Not to diss good agencies, not at all, but on a legal standpoint it is probably safer to play with Independants.

As far as "client lists"  I don't keep one.  I delete correspondence unless otherwise invited to keep.  As far as I am concerned, a client list is something I don't want to be used against me.

If a guy has not seen me for some time, and I am not likely to remember them, I always give clients a "code" word to share with providers when they want to use me for a reference.  It's really pretty easy for us to take care of each other.  Doesn't have to be complicated at all.  

That way no client list is needed for giving references.  

Jenni

le do not have any care for you whatsoever. Deal or no deal

and you have to live with yourself not to mention people you help throw in jail, get out and often are not too happy with you

you don't have any control on who is going to get hurt. It takes a life of its own

you don't understand. You are playing with dominoes. you snitched to get out of trouble and those folks are then faced with who they want to throw under the bus and so on and so on.

If you don't want to do the time... don't to the crime

keep that in mind guys. You that think were all something to hate.... We do share names of the ass holes including numbers and some go further than that

in fact if you watch Law a reason and Order, the only reason that this show works and the only reason most cases get solved is because some one spilled their guts. Carry your own weight. You played you pay. what so hard about that?

let's get this straight. every one should take the fall for what they did and leave everyone else out of it.  oh yea what is your Iq?