First of all let me state I completely agree that Miss Avalon does not look anywhere close to 36. I think I stated something about that in my last post. This event has brought a few interesting questions to light. I have unmoderated her so she can actively participate in this thread.

Here is your chance to pretend you are “staff” for the day.  How would you handle these questions? Remember,  TER policy is not based around just one provider. Your answers need to be fair to the almost 1 million members who expect accurate information and the over 100,000 providers on TER who may not.  It has to be politically correct to the 250,000 to 350,000 people who come to TER every day, not just the less than .1% that will read this thread.

**************WARNING*****************
If you want to participate in this thread YOU need to answer ALL of these questions.  Any second tier messages (responses directly to this message) that don’t address ALL of these questions will be deleted and the user moderated.  Third tier messages (responses to the responses of this message) may be more specific.
**************WARNING*****************

These are just some of the variables related to one field on a provider profile.   How many fields are there? How many reviews do we have?  How about the message boards? I deal with questions like this every day.  Any answers I give have to be complete, fair and able to withstand public scrutiny. If you want to pretend you are in my shoes for a day, so do yours.  What would your answers be to the following questions? Make sure to back up your answers with the reasons why.

1. A provider looks and acts 40. She plays the “MILF” act perfectly. Everyone states she looks 40. Her ID states she is 25. What age would you put? Why?

2. A provider advertises herself as a 40 year old “MILF”  but looks more like a  69 year old “G-MILF” (GrandMothers I would Like to F*ck) . What age would you put? Why?

3. A provider looks are acts 14. She plays the “school girl” act perfectly. Everyone states she looks 14. Her ID states she is 25.  What age would you put?  Why?

4. A provider looks in her mid 50’s but tells everyone she is 30 with no verification either way.  What age would you put? Why?

5. A provider looks in her mid 50’s but tells everyone she is 30 and has an ID that states she is only 30.  What age would you put? Why?

6. If a provider looks in her mid 20’s and “tells everyone” that she is 36, and her ID says she is 36, what age would you put on the profile? Why?

7. How would you respond if, even though a provider “tells everyone” that she is 36, and her ID says she is 36, complains when you put 36-40 on her profile.  Why?

8. What if a group of very vocal members does not agree with what you put as the age in the profile, even though it is true?  Why?

9. What if a very vocal provider does not agree with what you put as the age in the profile? What age would you put?  

10. If a provider gives you her ID as part of a photo shoot, should you pretend you don’t have if she later contests her age?

Have fun!

-- Staff

Let me first say this, if you have verification of age, then I do believe you should put down the real age.  But, only if that is for every provider on TER so to be fair.

1. Her ID states she's 25, put down 25.  Why, because that's what the id says.  The reviews will hopefully give the impression of how she looks and acts and the hobbyist can choose accordingly.

2. Not knowing her real age, you would have to go with how the reviews are written.  If the provider showed some proof of age, then you can change the profile.  Again, hopefully the reviews will show a general opinion of what you will actually see.

3. 25, if you have ID information then I would put down 25.  The reviews state she plays a part well.

4. If the reviews in her profile state she looks 50, than that is what is saved in the profile.  I don't see why you should change it without verification.

5. If she shows proof of 30, then 50.  The reviews again will show what you are going to really get.

6. 36. If the provider shows proof of her age, than it should be posted accordingly.

7. 36 because that's what shows on your ID that you supplied.  

8. If you have the truth, how can you argue with truth.

9. Not knowing the real age, I would just leave the profile alone unless there was proof.

10. No.

The problem I see is finding a way to be fair to everyone.  Unless you get real information on every provider, then I think it's unfair to single out and change profiles when there aren't complaints over and over in the reviews.

Although I find many profiles to contain inaccurate descriptions of providers, it is only my opinion.  Just like the reviews, everyone has a different take on something.

At this point without verification and lots of complaints in reviews, I think it's only fair to judge someone on the reviews.  If they complain about her looking older, then and only then I think something should be changed.

I also believe that unless TER can find some way to verify each profile, it's unfair to single out providers that you have personal information on.

that I never demanded or blamed TER for inaccurate profiles.  I can only imagine how hard it would be to find true accurate info on everyone, especially when descriptions such as "body type" are so subjective.

Had I never found TER and the reviews, I would have never been involved in the hobby.  Prolly should have kept it that way. lol.  

In closing, my opinion on the info in the profiles is this.  If the reviews support or do not contest profile information, then I don't see a reason to change them in the current system.  I believe that it would be near impossible to be able to verify everything in the profiles, and unless you can verify all profiles, I think it's not fair to target a few.

I do not see huge problems in the profiles and also do not see a fair way to fix all of them.  I think you are doing fine there.

I think I answered everything right, please don't moderate me.

Before I can answer these questions, or agree/disagree with lv2daty, I guess I need to decide what the purpose of the age range profile is.

Is it subjective guidance to the community on what the provider represents, or is it an objective reading of a line item from a driver's license or passport?

If the latter, it's easy -- all providers MUST show proof of age and it will be recorded thus.  QED.  No gray areas.

If it's the former then we must interpret, and be as fair as possible to all providers.  So with that here are my answers to the test questions:

1. She wants to represent herself as 40, then 40 it is.  The reviews will sort it out.

2. We would start at 40 and then let the reviews decide what upward adjustment would be made.

3. This one is different.  For legal reasons one cannot list 14, so whatever range she wants as long as it satisfies the legal requirements.

4. Same as #2.

5. Same as #2.

6. Mid-20's.  It's her choice and who does it harm?

7. This wouldn't happen, since the complaint must arise from an adjustment that would not have been made in this case.

8. Using the same reasoning as #7 this would not happen either, since we are consistent in applying our policy.  The age would be as the provider gives and no outcries are heard.

9. The age she wishes, making sure she understands that it is subject to adjustment if and only if a preponderance of reviews support the adjustment.

10. Another non-seqiter.  Who cares what personal info I have in my possession?  It's not relevant.

Since there is no clear right and wrong here I can only hope that fairness will prevail.  Pick a policy to which all must adhere and administer it consistently.

Must be why I always smile when I see your name.... or that could be something else putting that smile "back" on my face he he he

It doesn't matter who the provider is. These are my answers.

1) A provider looks and acts 40. She plays the “MILF” act perfectly. Everyone states she looks 40. Her ID states she is 25. What age would you put? Why?

40 - It doen't matter that I'm staff, I'm not checking her ID.

2) A provider advertises herself as a 40 year old “MILF”  but looks more like a  69 year old “G-MILF” (GrandMothers I would Like to F*ck) . What age would you put? Why?

If she looks 69 I couldn't get it up. No review.

3) A provider looks are acts 14. She plays the “school girl” act perfectly. Everyone states she looks 14. Her ID states she is 25.  What age would you put?  Why?

18 - I wouldn't check her ID and I'd be crazy to claim I fucked a 14 year old.

4) A provider looks in her mid 50’s but tells everyone she is 30 with no verification either way.  What age would you put? Why?

If she tells ME she's 30 or says that on her website, I'm putting 30. I'm not good at guessing ages.

5). A provider looks in her mid 50’s but tells everyone she is 30 and has an ID that states she is only 30.  What age would you put? Why?

Same answer as 4. I'm not checking her ID.

6) If a provider looks in her mid 20’s and “tells everyone” that she is 36, and her ID says she is 36, what age would you put on the profile? Why?

If she tells ME she's 36, that's what I'm putting down. I'm not going to guess when I don't have to.

7) How would you respond if, even though a provider “tells everyone” that she is 36, and her ID says she is 36, complains when you put 36-40 on her profile.  Why?

I would ask her why she is complaining and if she makes a compelling case, I'd change it to what she wants.

8) What if a group of very vocal members does not agree with what you put as the age in the profile, even though it is true?  Why?

Fuck the vocal members, I'll put what I want. If the provider disagrees with what I put, I'll listen to her.

9) What if a very vocal provider does not agree with what you put as the age in the profile? What age would you put?

If she can convince me to change what I put down, I would change it to what she wants.    

10) If a provider gives you her ID as part of a photo shoot, should you pretend you don’t have if she later contests her age?

Here we go again with the ID. What the fuck am I doing photo shoots for? She can get her own photographer. I don't want to see her ID.

You saved me a lot of typing.  The only place we differ, even a little, is #10.

I wouldn't PRETEND, but I'd never use the info.  It wasn't provided for purposes of establishing a profile, so it shouldn't be used for that.  I have plenty of ID's tucked away of people in the adult industry, and they don't ever get dragged out unless someone alleges an age violation.

Everything else, you can put me down as "me too".  Good work B.

Why are YOU filling out the profiles?  Why are YOU having to make these decisions?  Sounds  like one F*CK of a lot of tedious work to keep up with if you ask me.

But more than being tedious, you have NO WAY of verifying accuracy except in those very small minority of cases such as happened with Nikki.  So you shouldn't even try - you should just let the review info speak for itself.  Then all you have to do is to police the reviews as you normally do.

There has always been this quirky disconnect between the reviews and the profiles.  We all know girls who are giving bbbj's when the profile says cbj, but that's just one example.

You have all this review info you are not mining, so use it.  Let the reviewers do your work for you.  

I don't know what database you are using, but most modern databases are a piece of cake to work with compared to what we used back in the day.  Geesh, I know some high school kids who can work with SQL.  Hire some kids or get busy writing code.

Profiles should be automatically updated by review info.  If the girl gets into being a blonde, the profile reflects that because of the next review.  If she gets a boob job, that shows up in the profile because of the next review, etc.  Some categories, such as age, what service she provides, etc, may be better described as averages of a number of reviews, but that's only one idea.  You could have the profile show her stats in different categories that vary if the searcher picks different ranges of reviews, like the last review, the last 5 reviews, the last 10 reviews, etc.  For instance, for the category on blowjobs, instead of just showing a static "CBJ" that reflects what she may have been doing years ago, the guy could see what % of the time the girl gives bbbj's over the last review, the last 5 reviews, the last 10, etc.

What you appear to be doing, updating the profiles individually, is a futile effort that has to be very frustrating to you.  Believe me, you have my sympathy.  You have built a great system, but this profile problem is one that has been coming a long time.  I would give up on the manual profile editing effort and put my efforts into a new automatic update system that would update profiles to reflect current info or averages from the reviews.

-- Modified on 9/4/2007 7:09:50 PM

Your, or, for today, MY business is managing a database. This isn't people your offering (that would be illegal!), it's compiled information. Each field in a record is one piece of the information, and a database's purpose is to calculate and present data in various forms. Rather than manually entering values (do you actually do that?), I assumed you used a formula based on review entries with some kind of weighting value that would age and minimize input as it became stale and outdated. Whatever the reviewers put in would be averaged into the final published value. In effect, the Provider's published age will increase naturally as the reviews update it.

You don't already do that???

So - I don't know what to say if all the profiles are hand entered and modified by personal whim, but to comply with your format request, here are my answers to your questions, based on my assumption you are using a database to store your information, and not a word processor:

!. If "everyone states she looks 40, then the database would report 40.

2. The database would report whatever the reviewers state. If she looks 69 it'll say so (or, at least in that bracketed age group).

3. The lowest a reviewer may report is 18-21, so I assume that is what will be published.

4. Start with her claim (30), and let the reviews set the correct age accordingly. Can you have a provider listed with no reviews? If not, then, once again, the database would report accurately, as observed, and change as reviews influence the value.

5. See number 4. The same holds true to this very similar case.

6. Let the reviews tell the database what to say.

7. No issue: Because the age was calculated based on reviews, YOU didn't put anything there. The reviewers did.

8. Once again, that's what the reviews are for. You should not change what hobbyists have paid good money to discover and publish. Tell the whiners to pay up and submit a lot of reviews of her with the age they feel she appears to be.

9. Same answer as for questions 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 and 8.

10. No. Taking advantage of privileged information that was provided for the purpose of business unrelated to your eventual use may not break a legal agreement, but it breaks at least one moral contract. LJ's claims notwithstanding, the Truth alone does not always justify the telling at any cost.


Personally, I don't see how anyone would want to get into the business of micromanaging the tiny details of information presented on TER. Jeeze - how do you present hair color when the cuffs and collar don't match? If I were Staff, I'd let the reviewers determine these things.
So..... It's a database!?! Don't you already do that??? I have a hard time accepting that someone types this stuff into each field by HAND? I always assumed.....  When I put a different age into that field for a provider once, I thought the reason it wasn't changed in her profile was because it was averaged out..... I wonder what the real reason is..?


Modified to say: "Yeah - What Brownhound just said while I was composing this. That's what I meant to say..."


-- Modified on 9/4/2007 7:50:09 PM

I'd like to thank everyone for supporting me on this issue and seeing it for what it truly is.

Mr.Elms, you hunka-hunka burnin' love! Had anyone else pulled this shit on me, I'd have smacked them all over the board by now, with a vulgar display of intellectual superiority.

Your claim that a ladies success should be attributed to and is dependent upon her TER profile could be somewhat true, probably not. I'd rather not test that theory, just yet so, I must decline your suggestion of actively participating in this thread.  

Thanks for emailing me the copy of my passport (though it wasn't necessary to black anything out, erm...I know my name) and the collage that you created of it was a nice touch, but I'm also aware of my work name and the fact that you don't take very good photos.

I am still waiting for you to send me a copy of the models release that I don't recall signing and since I'm not feeling very comfortable with my private information being in your possession...would you kindly DESTROY it.

Thank You & Best Wishes,

NA

-- Modified on 9/4/2007 9:55:35 PM

The more I think about it - I still don't get this.

You are Staff. You are The Creator. Even given any reasonable system cost and legal expenses, you have got to be pulling in serious returns on your investment. By now, your wage equivalent index must be in the many (!) dollars per minute range.

If I am Staff for a day, and given the value of my time, what returns do I get from spending any of my time manually tweaking a lady's profile? Why don't I just let the Reviewers review the Ladies? That would give me more time to think up more really cool things, like TER, or maybe play with some of the outstanding toys that I bought to please myself and shamelessly flaunt in front of others.

If I were to personally modify records, would my subscribers (over 3000 online as I write) become suspicious that the information was being controlled by a single hand, and not the honest law of averages and mass submittals. I'm not sure I'd even want to touch the records I offer as my service, much less point out to everyone that I modify them as I see fit.

There can't possibly be any gain in addressing the 10 items you listed as problems for you to personally solve. IMHO, you'd be better off hiring a chimpanzee to make changes. At least, then, when you explained how a decision was made, no one could fault that it was unbiased.


Am I missing something? Smarty always says I'm naive, but this whole thing with Nikki's stats seems so trivial to me; Staff-for-a-day.

Maybe what Smarty meant was how dumb I was to address Staff this way, and get permanently banned, LOL. But, hey, don't forget: You asked.

Since TER has to satisfy thousands, if not millions of constituents, I think the "Reasonable Man" standard should apply to all the questions where a member/customer is involved.  This is the standard used in a variety of business settings where “Reasonable” means “the Average Joe”.   Issues regarding the provider's viewpoint should be based on "Truth In Advertising".   Madison Avenue’s job is to make products look better than they really are.  Consumers understand that, as long as there isn’t a gross misrepresentation.  Therefore:

1) 40 year old MILF who looks 40 should be listed as 40 despite what her ID says.   Any reasonable customer would say that they had different expectations if a 40 year old woman showed up for an appointment where a younger woman was expected.

2) Looks 69, but advertises as 40 years old - list as 69 years old.  This benefits all, men who like younger MILF won't be disappointed and men who like G-MILFs will be able to find this rarity!

3) Safety is the paramount of importance here.  Even if the ID says 25, why take the chance (remember Tracy Lords)?  TER would be doing their members a dis-service if it didn't at least throw up a red flag of caution to their members.  Listing her age as 18 would cause members to ask questions.  If she complains, so be it.  Potential liability to TER is not worth it.

4) Looks 50, but advertises 30 - list 50.  Reasonable man standard and Truth in Advertising both apply here.

5) Looks 50 but has ID for 30 - I would still list as 50.  Reasonable man standard applies here. If she complains, perhaps adjust to the lower age bracket but in no way list at 30.  Who benefits from poor reviews?

6) looks 20s but ID says 36 - list at 36.  Generally do what the provider asks unless the reasonable man standard or truth in advertising std are compromised.  There are few men who would be displeased with a younger woman showing up for an appointment.

7) If she can demonstrate that her business is dropping off, then drop her one age bracket to 31-35.  Truth In Advertising does allow some leeway.  Average Joe won't be shocked if a 36 year old show up for an expected 31 year old appt.

8) Very vocal members dispute age -  Does this group represent the Average Joe?  Perhaps not, precisely because they are vocal (hey could be TER connoisseurs with very high standards).  
If they are suggesting raising the age by one bracket, don’t bother.   However, if they are asking to raise by two or more brackets and there are more than three members with the same opinion (two members is a coincidence, three is a trend),  then go with their recommendation.  Reasonable man standard applies here and the baseline should be, “would Average Joe be surprised when he opened the door”?

9) Consider why is she complaining? Out of principal or is there lost business? If it’s the latter, then drop her age one bracket.  There is some leeway in the Truth-In-Advertising standard.

10)  Don’t intentionally distort her age if it would not make a difference to Average Joe.  If she  can really prove her age and if a  TER staffer has double checked that the ID is valid, then by all means, give her what she asks.

My ATF is in her 40's. I've never seen a review of hers that indicated differently. I prefer to be with a woman who is comfortable with her age. The 'kiddies' just don't do it for me....waste of time and $$.  JMHO

This one is EASY to answer...

This is easy to answer... and how to read ads...

Mid 20's  = 35
College Girl = 35
21 = 35
"Just turned" 18 = 28
35 = 50
39 = 60

and of course the favorite...

19 = 14 1/2

Giggle,
TS Jamie  

Hope to see our Vegas friends this winter!

fair is fair if it's applied to all.  like sports officials, the rules are not always exact.  as long as they are consistent, athletes can adjust.  in the NBA, they say the superstars don't get preferential treatment, LOL, yeah right.

nice to see nikki unmoderated again, still the main question that started all of this was, why was she moderated?

This whole thing just smells and i'm very disappointed.

Whatever you feel is appropriate. After all, it is your board. If I want "fair and balanced", I'll watch Fox News.

FTR, I don't have a side in this discussion, for better or worse, you have a business decision to make, does it really matter what the community thinks? Make a decision, right or wrong, and move on.

you don't think a good business decision comes in large part from listening to your customers?

Sorry, but I think the "Soup Nazi" marketing plan only works on Seinfeld.

Please click on the link below for some important info regarding Fox news.