The title line is in fact as a question. Also, I know this topic comes up from time to time, with little solution or real serious perspective.

For hobbyists, do you resent the high cost of the hobby in your home town? This question is not posed to think we can change the way it is. It is what it is, it appears. Reality is we get used to it and/or get over it. This does not mean we can’t complain either though.

As a traveling hobbyist I seem to have a lot of fun in big cities for half the cost. And when the traveling ladies come to town, their locale $$.5 or $$$ fee automatically doubles because they are in sin city. I can see a well reviewed hottie in DC, Miami, NY, Boston and others for two hours of fun, where the price is double in my home town.

It seems simple on the surface. Let’s face it, Vegas is a huge destination and for the hobbyist he probably budgets his hobby just like he does his gambling and other entertainment. They save up knowing they are going to blow $4,000 on the tables. That is in the budget. For evening fun they do the same knowing they will have to pay 8, 9, 10 and up for couple of hours of fun each night.

And don’t get me wrong this is not 100% of the time and we sometimes find a diamond in the ruff. But, as her phone gets out of control the first thing that happens, is price increases to slow it down. That is Business 101. There are also a very few local ladies that discount locals, which is really appreciated.

Now before all my gentlemen friends tell Smarty to move to DC, I am just asking here for feedback as to what others feel on the subject, so let the aliases fly.

For the ladies, is that really what it is about? Is supply and demand driving your business and the location? Have you considered locals discounts? I also know some ladies that travel from Vegas and wind up lowering their fees to the local competition. It happens.  We live in a very unique market in Vegas as well when it comes to incall vs. outcall. Most other areas are incall driven, while with 50,000 rooms Vegas is outcall driven. That is another issue for locals. It is hard to find a high echelon provider that also provides incall. So if you have a $$$$$ provider you need to add another $.5 for a nice room.

Now, if you want some belly busting laughs for the weekend go to the National Board and read the post on “the funniest alias contest”. You got to love it.

well, as a frequent visitor to vegas , I see it this way..as more girls enter the "industry", they will find they will have to lower their prices to keep busy..supply and demand.  More and more gals are posting specials, and I believe this will be the trend.  Most will disagree but NO girl is worth $500-$600 an hr to me, but if they can get it fine.  For the average hobbyist, there are some fair prices out there..for wonderful, kind, eager to please women...do your homework.

I think it is a two part problem.  I believe that it is partly ego and greed on the providers part, an over estimation of their actual worth.  But mostly it is our fault for paying these ever increasing rates.  We are our own worst enemy.  Case in point, one provider that I “had my eye on” so to speak, recently got a long list of glowing reviews over the last several months.  So she ups her rate to take advantage of her new found fame.  Did she change anything?  No.  We fueled her ego by posting all of these great reviews so she naturally, she believes that she is worth more now because of it.  So, when I was in Vegas last week, I took her off of my “must see” list and looked elsewhere.  I had two great visits with other ladies for what I would have had to spend on my original choice.  

It has gotten to the point now that my provider budget as you put it has out paced my gambling budget.  I am most certainly going to cut back on my trips to Vegas and look elsewhere for my fun trips.  More fun can be had elsewhere with ladies of, in my opinion,  equal beauty for less money so in April I‘ll be going to Montreal instead of Vegas.  And there is always Costa Rica!

"I believe that it is partly ego and greed on the providers part, an over estimation of their actual worth.  But mostly it is our fault for paying these ever increasing rates."

And your motivation to not pay a higher rate ISN'T greed? Or is it the same motivation as the ladies you see- to maximize the value of dollars in your pocket? I understand your point, but hey, be honest here.

You also missed Smarty's point- I bet a nickel your lady you "had your eye on" had more business than a few months ago, thanks to those reviews. While you can adjust rates to possibly cut down on phone calls, no-shows, email to answer, etc., nobody's figured out a way to add more hours to a day to take advantage of phones going off the hook ringing. Believe me, if they did, I know one or two girls who could make good use of a 60 hour day...

I don't begrudge a lady charging what the market will bear any more than I begrudge the manufacturer of any luxury good the right to charge what they want. If I don't want it, I won't buy it. So I do agree on that- if you don't like the price, walk a bit, support the lower end. Party in other towns. Myself...I've found some things I like, and I tend to like less frequent longer sessions, so the price differential doesn't matter so much (and I try to find ladies who price accordingly). When it comes down to it, sex and this hobby is ultimately a subjective experience, and what one person values and desires isn't going to be the same as someone else.

I also concur on the value you can get north of the border. Vancouver even has something Vegas does not- a reputable agency staffed with 10-15 gorgeous, sexy, GFE ladies, at prices that, back in the CDN $1=US $0.60 days, were a complete steal, and even now aren't too shabby.

Let me get this straight.  You think that I don’t want to pay  X dollars because I’m greedy?  Let’s see, Webster’s defines greed as “an excessive desire to acquire or possess more (especially more material wealth) than one needs or deserves”.  Somehow, this definition does not seem to apply to me but rather to the providers.  And yes, for me it is a question of value and I believe that some of the local providers have greatly over estimated their value in this business.  But that is just my opinion and I don’t expect you to understand it or agree with it.  Spending an absurd amount of money in pursuit of enjoyment or happiness does not guarantee that you will actually meet your goal. Please see Yankees, New York.

So where does it end then?  At $700 per hour?  Maybe $800?  I’m sure that there will be someone out there stupid enough to pay it though.  And I don’t buy the raise the rates because I am too busy excuse either.  That excuse is laughable.  They did not cover that in grad school while I was earning my MBA.  Maybe I just missed class the day they went over that.

I agree that the prices are a lot higher here in Vegas then say Boston or other big cities. My major pet peeve, that has happened to me on at least 2 occasions is this: You start seeing a local provider that has very few or no reviews, she's great, you write a glowing review, you become a regular client of hers. Then she starts seeing an increase in her business, raises her fees- in my humble opinion she should "grandfather "in the fee she charged you in the begining. I know of some providers who do this , but like I said, at least 2 local providers did not and wanted to charge over $$ more for the same experience. I know that if a lady is reviewed by someone with numerous reviews, that carries more weight then a review from someone that has no previous reviews on TER. So some loyalty should be shown to that client. Again, just my opinion.

Maybe you missed the Economics class, one of my personal favorites, and the discussion of the meeting of supply & demand curves at a price point.

I'd love for local prices to be lower, but there are 40 million visitors that hurt the possibility of that happening.  It sucks, but it also supports our economy.  The fix for the locals is to find someone special that will keep you at her old rates, or to win big at the sports book so you have the funds.  If that's not possible, go out of town with Smarty on his next trip east.

They can charge whatever they like. If they provide a quality service at good value then they'll be busy.

Some ladies raise their prices once they get established to weed out certain clientele that are more common at lower prices. Some prefer to work less for more $$.  Whatever the reason, it is their choice just as it is your choice to choose to see one vs. another.

Vegas is an usual city - visitors show up intending to lose large sums of money and don't seem to mind.  This works to the providers' advantage. Nothing you can do about it.

As for the locals - girls tell me that many of the locals are drugged out, constantly call them looking for discounts, or are fucked up in other ways.  Not worth the hassle.

-- Modified on 7/20/2006 4:26:50 AM

Re-read my post. I'm saying you and a lady have the SAME THING in the end- a desire for the economic transactions you both engage in to come out in your favor as much as possible. Why is it bad for a provider to want to be paid more, but it's somehow noble for you to pay less? I prick you both, you both bleed, right? It's neither here nor there in my opinion (viva the free market and invisible hand!)- the market for providing in Vegas is what it is. I'd love it if they gave away Ferraris myself. They don't, I don't want to pay for them (I don't see the value in it), so I don't buy them. So, in essence, I agree with you- if Vegas is no fun because it's so expen$$$$$ive, go someplace more in tune with your finance$$.

I'm sorry that if offends you that I'm comparing your desire to keep money with a provider's to make it- but cheer up: I could have compared you with a lawyer.

(Digression: a rat is on a lawyer's shoulder, and a friend of the lawyer running across him on the street asks: "Why are you with such a disgusting creature?"

The rat goes "Squeak squeak squeak...")

And as acidom pointed out- you have an MBA and you don't get supply/demand curves and elasticity/inelasticity in price or demand? Raising prices of a good cuts demand (assuming demand stays relatively inelastic)- so yeah, that is a way to cut time spent workin' on your back (or fending off phone calls, answering emails, etc.). Believe me, it happens- voice mail boxes get full for some of the best ladies around here VERY quickly, and thhey get under a blizzard of email, even after they are at the Vegas prices that so offend your sensibilities.

-- Modified on 2/11/2006 11:28:12 AM

There is no monopoly or collusion going on among indies in this city. In fact, there are a lot of good providers who haven't raised their rates in quite a while despite rising costs of living.



-- Modified on 2/11/2006 2:23:26 PM

...like I said, something like this hobby is an inherently subjective value judgment based on personal tastes and needs.

I've never quite understood why people get vehement on this topic (not how Smarty or you phrased things mind you, but some other comments I've seen here and elsewhere when the topic of pricing rears its head). It's as if people feel since they're discussing providers, there's a presumption that they are not allowed to charge whatever the market will bear as much as lawyers, contractors, or any other business is allowed to. It's a real ugly undertone to these discussions that I don't particularly like- and I'm pretty sure it doesn't make providers feel warm and fuzzy, any more than we hobbyists like feeling like animated wallets.

Then again, people bitch about paying divorce lawyers and contractors too, I guess...

I was in hopes that we could avoid bringing any acutal names into the discussion. Nikki also gives diccounts to locals as a matter of fact.

But, if we stay on target, I just wanted opinions and not names. A good discussion of yes a topic talked about before but not in depth.

There is no regulation. thus depending on the venue, Las Vegas or Seattle, you truly get a reflection of supply and demand.

In Las Vegas, there is a huge supply of non-locals the ladies can choose from. In Seattle it is normally just your business guys.

For me?  I have been all over the world. Cost to value ratios vary greatly.  The ladies who know me as a regular, know the dollar doesn't matter. It is easy to come by. It's the attention and dependability that counts for me.

TMT  Rainless in Seattle

I understand the problem locals have in Las Vegas. I think it is sad. But, I also think there is a opportunity there waiting to be filled and someone should jump on it.

What I don't understand is the girls who won't see locals.  There are 3 girls I can think of that I would be interested in seeing, but they state on their web sites that they don't see locals.  Do they think that just because a guy is in town for a convention means he won't be "drugged out" and/or "fucked up" and won't  "constantly call them looking for discounts?"  What kind of logic is that?  If we have the same references and are willing to pay her listed rate, why shouldn't a girl see a local?  Oh well, to each her own.

Smarty's right about the incall situation.  Although not unheard of, it is extremely rare here.  It's pretty much limited to girls visiting from other cities.  That situation has allowed me to play tourist on occasion.  By seeing visiting girls providing incall I have been able to spend time in  rooms of: Golden Nugget, Sahara, Hilton, Venetian, Bally's, Embassy Suites, Hard Rock, Monte Carlo, New York New York, MGM Grand, San Remo (now known as Hooters), Excaliber, Luxor, Mandalay Bay, and Sunset Station.  Off course, I could have done that just by booking a room for myself.  It would have been cheaper, but not nearly as much fun.

There are some providers in this city who some of us know damn well could raise their rates today and still have more requests than they can handle. If they are greedy, as has been suggested, why wouldn't they do that? I don't believe it's all about the benjamins for every provider.

Vegas, despite it's growth over the years, is still a tourist driven market*, not a local driven one. Moreover, the ladies who advertise here are retail escorts-they're generally not looking to wheel and deal.

However, if one looks beyond TER, like Troothsayer, CityLife or LVW ads, or CL, you're going to see that there is a lower end market emerging around town. Maybe that niche needs to be explored a little-I am more or less retired these days, but a little research, and a phone number or two put in my ear, discovered a number of credible outs at $140-$200.

*just another "entertainment industry" outlet designed to try to get your money before the casinos do.

If I may interject a few thoughts from the provider's point of view... Though I do not speak for everyone here is my personal experience/view.

First as a background on me I moved to Las Vegas a few months back from a city where the supply way out numbered the demand. There was some out-of-town business but mostly locals, and most reviews were found on another review site. The problem in that city was the competition, girls could post "specials" once a week and sure enough if someone posted a 1 hr session for $200 instead of her usual rate of $250, there was another girl that came right behind her and posted she would do 1hr for $175.. And so on and so on, until girls were offering 1hr for around $100 just to get their phone to ring, that's like street walker pay. Crazy! Personally I had no desire to price myself that low or run my business that way. I was at $300 per hour there and was doing well, but for me this hobby is a vehicle to the next phase in my life. So, when it came to looking at Grad Schools UNLV and Las Vegas sounded like a good match as a way to finish my graduate degree while at the same time maximizing my income potential and time as a provider.

I think many Vegas girls are the same way, just check the review boards it seems that about 1 out of every 4 reviews posted is on someone "new". So many girls are moving here solely to work in this business, some come with past reviews but most are new, and it's hard being the new girl in a big city. So many guys are afraid of getting ripped off that the only way to get someone to see you is to have a low enough price that if they feel like they might be "taking one for the team" that the price of admission isn't too much if the session isn't stellar. Of course when the session is great and you start getting some TER credit to your name, you remember why you came; to make the maximum amount of money you can and then move on to bigger better things. So the price goes up and hopefully the sessions still stay stellar.

And you may say, Chase dear, what about the girls that stay in this business for 5,10,20 years? (you girls know who you are). These veterans either don't have an out plan or came to this city and can't turn away from the money that is so plentiful here. Why do these girls charge so much per hour? Well darling while this is a profitable business and some providers make more in a year than some of their clients, this "occupation" comes with no health insurance and no 401K, so at the end of 10 years in the business some of these ladies are 45 and have no retirement money. They don't have someone automatically deducting a portion of their income each month so they have to do this themselves, which I imagine is hard for many girls. And health insurance is an issue to with no company provided HMO, many girls being the sole income provider (lol) are paying out insane premiums to cover themselves and their families. I know it's hard to think about this side of the "business" but it is a very real thing for many girls.

As for the incall vs. Outcall thing, again going back to my example of my former city where some girls were seeing 2-4 locals per day (at $100 per hour they would have to in order to make any kind of real money). But lets say you were charging $200 per hour and had 2 incall clients scheduled within 1/2 hour of each other, you would make $400 in a total of about 3 hours (30 min to get ready there at your incall, see client #1 for an hour, take a 1/2 break and then client #2). Now in Las Vegas if someone books a 1 hr outcall, you end up spending those same 3 hours just in a different way (30 min to get ready, 30 min to drive to the strip in traffic, valet park, spend an hour, get your car out of valet and then drive home). So if you are charging less $400 in this case it isn't worth your time which is why you will see many girls with 2 hr minimums or higher fees when they offer outcall to the strip.

As for girls that travel here, you have to remember that this isn't soley a "vacation" for them. If they book a deecent hotel for 7 days (at about $150 per night) plus a $200 plane ticket and 7 days worth of breakfast, lunch and dinner they need to make almost $2,000 just to BREAK EVEN. So if their rate is $200 at home they move up to $400, because the point of the trip is to make more than what they could make at home, so still only seeing 2 appiontments a day at $400/hr (for 7 days) gives them a total of $5,600. That sounds like a lot but when you subtract the $2,000 the trip cost the their profit is $3600 for the week when back at home (seeing 2 clients a day at $200/hr) they would have made $2,800 for the week. That means they only made $800 more than they would have in a week back at home, which to some isn't worth the time away from friends and family.

I know people will think what they want and any hobbyist is going to want the most bang for their buck, no matter if you are paying $200 per hour or $2,0000. But there are many other factors that we as providers have to look at when setting up our rates, and whether you like them or not if you want to play you have to pay!
       

-- Modified on 2/12/2006 5:41:25 AM

Costs are out of line, I will agree.  If they can get it fine, more power to them but they won't be getting it from me.

-- Modified on 2/12/2006 5:41:57 AM

Well (saying this tounge-in-cheek), at least you did not blame it on the referees!

What is it that your studying at UNLV. I think I know, you do have a way with numbers.

Thanks for the excellent thread Chase and different perspective. I too believe, if you want to play you have to pay and have done so many times at Vegas rates too. Just lively discussion, although I will be doing a lot more hobbying in other cities in the future, just a economice no more no less.

Oh, can I get a Locals discount. lmao
Kidding sweetie

then that is a viable option, but if you were to pay for a plane ticket, pay for a hotel, and pay for meals, rental car, and other incidentals for a trip, just to see the ladies there, the savings in per hour dollars would quickly be lost on the travel expenses.

When I say I travel that is obviously business related, with all those expenes paid for. So hoobying is as I said 1/2 the costs. Thanks

I have always accepted the higher rates charged in Vegas, but have become a recent cynic of the benefit of paying higher rates.

As has already been mentioned, why pay $5-6K for a weekend with a local provider when you can have a top notch provider travel with you for only $2.5K and have an experience that is just as meaningful.

Also, some Vegas providers tend to take their clients for granted and that is sad.

Bottom line is that providers that take an attitude about pricing will eventually learn the meaning of Aesop's famous fable.

Hobby on, be practical and remember that January and Groundhog Day have come and gone, spring will be in the air soon and rebirth will occur!

The way I see it, it's a pure supply and demand issue.  I'll use 3 cities for examples, here in Vegas, Dallas/Ft Worth, and SF Bay area.

Vegas:  You have legit prostitution nearby so that's the bar.  The bar includes no deposits, instant gratification (once you get there) and choice.  Step away from that, and you have some other options available such as agencies, bar girls, and dancers.  Generally no deposit type situations.  So, as an indie, what can you do?  Unless you have some outstanding reasons to take deposits, you really can't because the market doesn't support it.  And clients flake.  A lot.  That's lost time and income (which deposits help defray but you can't take deposits without the massive hit to your income due to loss of interest).  (Not to say that providers aren't flakes, seems to be an ongoing problem on both sides here in Vegas.)  So say the baseline is a brothel girl, $750/pop.  Agencies just charge for getting a girl to your door and the tips might run somewhere around the same price as a brothel (she might come down but most girls know the little head will pry some money that the big head says is too expensive).  Bar girls, taking the risk of having no info on their potential clients, seem to be charging around $400 a pop.  It's not surprising that most of the indies around here are charging $350-400/first hour with some client info to make them more comfortable with the situation, esp when they can't take deposits.  You can pretty much say the same for the touring providers.  They have expenses to take into consideration for coming here (yeah, they're coming to kick it in Vegas but some still want to defray some of the costs of having fun here) and if they can bump their rates to be more in line with some indies, nothing wrong with charging the going rate.  Of course, if they charge more than the going rate, they might find business to be slow to non-existent but it's their call to make.

Now lets take a differnt location, DFW.  Nowhere else other than rural NV do you have legit prostitution but you do have some legit businesses offering massages or modeling studios.  If you total up the fees+tips, let's say it runs you $200-250.  Then you have dancers that might work for extra tips inside the club or just see you outside the club.  Costs can be all over the map there.  As an indie there, you have to have a compelling reason to charge $300/hr or more.  And depending on your circumstances, you might have to offer specials to attempt to stand out from others.  (It doesn't help that the local economy there isn't throwing money around like the tourists coming to Vegas.)  And like Vegas, with the alternatives not requiring deposits, you'd have to have a helluva reason to ask for deposits.  Lots of work for a smaller payout.

Now SF Bay used to be a higher priced area similar to Vegas where the going rate may have been $400-500/hr for indies (got those Internet millionaires throwing off money like no tomorrow).  The weird thing there was somebody manage to organize a bunch of streetwalkers, clean them up and throw them up on the internet as indies for around $200/hr.  Suddenly, as a $400-500/hr indie, your business dried up.  Sure, there are some out there that will find you but it wasn't as nice/busy as it was before those lower priced options came along.  So do you stick it out, or drop your prices to get more in line with the new competition?

So unless someone wants to start wrangling up some local streetwalkers and offer up Internet indies at some cut rate prices to get the rates down, I don't see the supply opening up to the point where the prices come down somewhere more reasonable.  The demand from the cash flush tourists hasn't gotten the prices to come down.  Even with craigslist ads (somewhat less reliable than an indie with a good rep), the pricing hasn't changed a hell of a lot over the last 5-10 years.  If I were still a tourist, I'd still be looking for sure things, esp with the costs where they are (unless I'm a degenerate gambler, then I might blow a couple hundred on a CL girl and hope for the best or try might luck with an agency or bar girl).

Just the way the world seems to work.

Bob

Okay, so everyone can hate and judge me for this.  I am not going to address all of the topics on this board, but I do hope that the readers get the general idea of what of what I am saying here......

I happen to be one of the ladies who charges "wayyyyy tooooo much" for my time and companionship with men in Vegas (and everywhere else!).

Why???  Well, number one, I am a starving grad/art student.  NO, I'm not b.s.-ing about it.  Not asking for pity, just please respect that I am here attempting to make ends meet.

Number two, I DO have another job and I simply cannot take time off work for *this* adventure, along with the fact that I have family nearby that I need to spend time with.  And (sorry to bore you even more!) I am studying spiritual issues and ecclesiology and volunteering which limits my time even more.

Moreover, I am not shy to hug, snuggle and show affection to the men who contact me for a date.  One hour may turn into two, three, four hours, or even an overnight date.  Is that anyone’s business though?  NO!  I am discreet with my dates and I know the men I spend time with reciprocate.

Once you (the man/client) get acquainted with a lady, your little $500-$800 an hour could likely turn into an all-night decadent, romantic, once-in-a-lifetime gfe or pse experience.  If not, sorry for you.  You learned your lesson.  But $500-$1500 can buy you sexy memories, a lesson learned, or a hot pair of Ferragamos.  And if you don't appreciate those shoes, then you should shop at discount centers.  

Get it????

-- Modified on 7/20/2006 4:30:10 AM

I have already met Selena in person and drool with thoughts of our one time private meeting, not matter the fee.

We got the lively dicussion on the subject that was desired. lmao

I have lived here 22 years, and have no intention of leaving either. Viva Las Vegas. So that means I have payed and enjoyed all my hobby experiences. um guess I will contunue to do so too. lmao

I too love Selena

That's Amazing!  I have some clients that need to hear what you just said.  They don't seem to listen to me when I say it.  Maybe using the escort perspective will keep them awake long enough to make them understand why they lose money.  Do you need a job?  very well put.  No wonder why you are so well regarded - smart, sexy and good with your finances (as well as other things - I'm told).

Thanks for the compliment! I think it's important for hobbyists to view this hobby from the provider's point of view at times to understand the reasons girls make the choices they do. On the other hand there are many things that the girls in this business could learn from seeing thing's from the client's view, but that is another thread for another time! As for needing a job, that depends on what you have to offer, lol! Can you beat $100,000 a year, working 5-10 hours per week, and setting your own schedule? I didn't think so!

Chase

And used information on your website of $$$.5 per hour and gave you the benefit of 10 full hours a week at 52 weeks, which equals $182,000 lmao

This is not only interesting, but "Amazing". Of course maybe there were some slow weeks of only 6-8 hours, which would affect those figures somewhat, but still mighty nice salary and looks like, I could not offer you an equal to go to work for me. To bad. I will keep looking or contact a "headhunter". Lmao

You go girl.

LOL - no don't think I can beat the hours!  - YET!  maybe you can do this part time?!?!?  Hope the party went well last night.

Personally 7-8 hours per week is more standard for me because I only see 1 client per day, and because of my class schedule I have to turn down some really late evening appointments. Now you can see why so many girls get into this business, and why many girls find it hard to leave! And of course why April is my least favorite month!

On a side note I updated my blog to include some info about the party including links for all the girls that were there (or at least the ones I met). I even gave you and PG a thank you. Check the link below, and scroll down to the bottom.