Planning my annual trip to Vegas. Had great luck with 3 great Vegas providers the last couple of years, but not much luck in the casino. Did do better at Mandalay Bay last year than the previous years at the Harrah's properties. Is the gambling better off the strip and downtown compared to the strip ?
Mostly I'm a 3 card poker and a slots player. Not smart enough to figure slots out. Roulette never seemed like good odds. Played black jack once or twice and lost my ass.
In addition to the providers and gambling, always enjoy a night at a strip club. Spearmint Rhino was great for a couple of years, not as good last year.
Thanks for any advice.

-- Modified on 7/5/2010 1:00:15 PM

Stick with BJ -- blackjack, that is. Mandalay Bay and most other MGM properties offer BJ with good rules.

We go there for the following reasons...

* visiting provider offering incall at a strip property

* friends/family in town, looking to be shown the town

* we got free tickets to a show

Downtown has decent table games, and is only seedy if you go out the wrong door.

A couple of things.

You don't have to play roulette at 35 to 1. You can bet red or black at 49 to 51 for even money. There are also 2 to 1 options on the table. Blackjack does take some strategy, but is a lot of fun. There are lower limit tables that allow you to learn as you go and not get killed. Sahara actually has a bunch of dollar tables and cen be fun just for the novelty of it.

Other than the strip and downtown, there are quite a few local casinos around town. Two good ones are gold cost (on flamingo across from the palms) and the orleans (also a coast property on west tropicana). People also seem to like the station casinos, both red rock and green valley are nice if you have a car. Likewise some of the boulder hgwy casinos.

It's hard to say where gambling is better, but the limits are definitely lower downtown than on the strip (except for the sahara, and the riveria to a lesser degree). The trade off of course is drink service, glitz and eye candy. Places like the ones I mentioned in the paragraph above are a pretty happy medium.

Look at gambling as a form of entertainment and you'll enjoy it a lot more. Know what you're willing to lose and how much time you need to play in order to justify it.

If you're tired of Spearmint Rhino, there's always Sapphire and Olympic Garden. At the latter, I'm hearing mileage is pretty good. People seem to like Treasure too. Which ever one you chose, see if they offer free limo service. It will usually save you the cover.

Have fun.

Totally agree with Phil. Have had success at places such as South Pointe, Red Rock, some Station Casinos etc.  The strip while nice to visit at times, you will have better luck off the strip, like the locals.

Whenever non-gamblers ask me, "What's the best game for me to play?", I always give the same answer:  Keno.  Worst possible odds in the house.  But you only have to make one decision every ten or fifteen minutes, only costs you a buck, and in the meantime you can drink yourself stupid for free.  Save a lot of money that way.

If that's too dull for you:  Three card poker is not a good game to play.  Perfect strategy will net you $97.36 for every $100 you wager--and perfect strategy means NOT playing the incredibly silly "Pair Plus" wager.

Slots--huge loser.  Roulette, another huge loser.  Blackjack--if you're willing to spend an hour or two to learn basic strategy, you can hold your losses to more or less acceptable minimums.  If you're willing to learn to count cards, you might even make a few bucks.  And Yes, counting cards can still be done, and can still be a way to win.  I can prove it, because I've been barred from every casino in town.  Video poker, on some machines in some casinos, can be played to nearly a breakeven point over the very long haul, but again, will require that you learn the correct strategy for whatever machine and payout schedule you play.  Most people don't want to "work" when they gamble, which is why the very few who are willing to do so can actually eke out a marginal living doing so.

Craps is potentially one of your least-losing-est games.  Find places that allow you 5X, 10X, or potentially even greater odds than that.  Once you bet the pass or don't pass line and a point has been established, you can make a backup bet which pays off on the true mathematical odds, i.e., it would be as if the house is allowing you to bet heads or tails on a coin flip, and giving you double your money when you win.  If you're active enough at a high enough level, the house will notice and start offering you stuff.

Baccarat is another game which comes very close to being a coin flip.  Just always bet on bank and pay the 5% commish, and never bet on ties.  And sit out a hand every once in awhile.  Baccarat players are notorious for being superstitious, "hunch" type players, so sitting out a hand or two from time to time is seen as typical behavior.

I know, probably TMI, but this is a topic about which I know way too much...

Its a very easy and very fun game.

Little Phil is mostly right in saying that locals don't go to the Strip.  However, I am one local that get's there every 4th of July.

This year I went to the Luxor.  Played video poker at the Pilot Bar (it's near front entrance to the casino).  Was able to play for about an hour and a half on $2.  (I was only betting $0.25 at a time.)  Best hand was a four a kind.

Something I saw in the casino looked really cool.  Some blackjack tables had couches to sit on, instead of stools.  If I were a tourist I might have been tempted to play.  They also have go-go dancers in the casino.  I don't think that adds anything to the experience.

Good luck during your trip!

It is not to a my advantage to tell anyone where the good games are but I am compelled to do so because there are just too much inaccurate information.

Of all the table games, BJ is the only game that you can win in the long run. How to do that is beyond the scope of this post or on this message board. You can win in video poker with free play credits but it involves a lot of work in finding the right games; I only play it for comps.

To play to win, in general the higher the table minimum the better. You should play at least $25 min. Local casinos, especially those downtown, have uniformly bad rules. BJ at Station casinos (incl. Red Rock and Green Valley Ranch) and perhaps Orleans are playable if you stick with double decks (DD). (High limit $50 min at Red Rock and GVR are not bad.)

The best rules in BJ, ($25-$50 min) can be found at Bellagio (DD, 6D), Aria (DD), Mandalay Bay (6D), the Mirage (DD, 6D), TI (DD, 6D), MGM Grand (6D, I think their BJ games have deteriorated). If you can play $100 min at high limit rooms, there are a lot more choices. Casaers Palace's high-limit BJ is very good.

Try to look for "dealers stand on soft 17" (S17) games first, that's 0.21% extra to your favor over "dealer hits soft 17" (H17). But don't avoid H17 games completely as there are good ones. Avoid 8-deck games.

I have said too much already -- no more posts on this topic.

Sorry, I missed it earlier.

Not to get into a whole roulette odds discussion but if you are going to play red/black odds then make sure you find a table with only 1 non-red/black space : "0". Some tables have "0" and "00" which reduce your odds even more.

-- though I think the worst odds are at a strip club  

The gambling rules downtown are generally better (though some casinos, like the Four Queens, have a lot of 6-5 blackjack that should be avoided... those games are much more common on the Strip, however). In fact, the El Cortez downtown has the only 3/2 payout, single-deck game of low-limit blackjack ($5) that I'm aware of on the Strip or downtown, as well as double-deck $3 games. Full-pay video poker is easier to find downtown as well. Craps odds are better, too, and so on.

A number of providers consider downtown properties other than the Golden Nugget a bit sketchy. IMO this is a bit overstated (some Strip properties are more run down than some downtown ones- though nothing downtown is at the Wynn/Bellagio/Mandarin Oriental caliber of property), but the way around this is to stay at the Golden Nugget, which as a four star property is as solid as anything comparable on the Strip and everyone will pretty much go to.

Unless you know how to count cards , we have a saying
"these casinos were not built on winners"  lol lol

or maybe you just need some "spice luck"  
or at least some "spice wishes"
sending you much love and luck
xoxo CindySpice

It's probably a lot cheaper to learn basic strategy downtown at a table with reasonably good rules and low table limits.

Besides, you need to have basic strategy down pat (which isn't going to win by itself, just minimize your losses) before you start counting or doing things that let you win.

Anywhoo, here's the most recent survey of BJ rules...

http://wizardofvegas.com/guides/blackjack-survey/?sort=hedge&dir=asc

Black Jack is of course the only game in town worth playing.

Get a “Perfect Play” card. (not sure exactly what they're called) but available in all souvenir shops. You can even put them on the table and refer to them.

Most people lose because they get erratic. They win a bit and start increasing their bets or they loose a bit and increase their bets. Play the same low stake regardless of winning or losing and you shouldn't go far wrong.

my best memories of my Vegas trips the last 5 or 6 years have been the time spent with one of Vegas's great providers rather than the time/money spent in the casinos.

Guess I need to play enough though, to keep the comp room and food coming....LOL.

Over the short term, any game of chance can give you winnings but over the long term, most casino games have a house edge (sometime called vig).  For example, if you look at your fav table game, 3 card poker, the vig is 3.37% on the ante and 7.28% on the bonus (see wizardofodds.com and companion site wizardofvegas.com).  So over the long haul, you'd lose $3.37 and $7.28 per $100 played.
As someone stated earlier, blackjack probably has the lowest vig using basic strategy and with card counting, a slight player edge.  The bad news about casinos is that they can bar you from playing, esp if you win too much.
That wizardofodds.com site has some pretty good java sims that let you play all sorts of casino games for fun and practice.

There's a few different ways to look at gambling and your goals: playing with an advantage, playing for comps, playing for fun.  To play with an advantage requires a good amount of skill in certain games: blackjack, video poker, live poker, race&sports book.  When you play for comps, you're looking for the best deals for the money you're potentially giving to the casino.  Then there's playing for fun.  Which begs the question what you're bankroll and size of your bets?  Playing at the nicer strip casinos, they usually want to see $25 bets or more for table games (probably a bit lower for 3 card poker).  You can find lower limit games away from the strip as the quality of the property drops and/or management discretion.

For locals, the comps tend to come in more free play and dining comps vs room comps.  The casinos offer different deals depending on whether you live here or not.  Since locals can frequent a particular casino more often, they get smaller, more frequent deals vs larger single trip deals for visitors.  With a locals focus, they would have lower limits to entice locals to come more often and have their bankroll last longer.  As a visitor, you might have a much larger bankroll for your trip.  An real life example, I might get a handful of $25 free play over the course of a month while a buddy from LA might get $500 gaming and resort credit/gift card over a 3 night stay at the same casino.

There are different types of entertainment that guys look for in strip clubs.  What's your motive: pretty dancers, good lap dances, companionship, extras?  Spearmint Rhino seems to have a fair number of attractive and aggressive dancers during the busy weekend nights.   You might find a larger club like Sapphires or Rick's where you can probably find a place to sit without much trouble (unless you're in a party of 3 or more).  Maybe you want value by hitting a club like Cheetah's during the day (2for1 drinks, 2 dances for $20; day shift dancers tend to be less attractive and fewer of them than night shift dancers but might be more inclined to offer extras).  Maybe with your comment on the Rhino being great but not so last year, being due to the increased vice presence in all the clubs around town.  Maybe it's because the dancers aren't making as much and deciding to look to greener pastures (if a dancer can't make enough tips to cover costs like stage fees/outfits/personal care).

Like many queries posted here, you really need to be more specific to what your needs are so the people who respond can give a better answer.  In the end, one person's coal is another person's diamond.

Bob

My personal taste in table games is pai gow which is offered off strip at 2 places: Rio and Palace Station.  With $25 bets, I might want to take my action to Mirage, Wynn, Venetian, Caesars, or Bellagio because I pay commission in half dollars rather than quarters.  Go figure.

Bob

Let's start with strip clubs.....I do love a great lap dance with a beautiful young lady in a VIP area. Seems like the going rate was maybe 100 for 3 songs at the Rhino. Does that sound reasonable ? Love the grinding and touching.  The thing I love about Vegas, in Atlanta it's pretty much a touch and go policy..you touch , you go..since the big Gold Club raid a few years ago. Last year the cover was $ 50 at the Rhino. I don't remember it being that high before. I'd rather spend that 50 on a dancer.  I did learn later, if you call the club...sometimes they'll let you in the back door and avoid the cover. Maybe we there too early in the day, but the quality of dancers just wasn't what it had been the previous couple of years.

As far as gambling, I understand what you're saying. In my limited experience, the key there is knowing when to quit. Obviously the more you play, the better the odds for the house.
I enjoy the 3 card poker, because I've learned my money lasts a lot longer there compared to slots. I've been lucky enough to hit 3 of a kind or a royal flush with 10-20- dollars on the pair plus bet a few times. If I can stay there a couple of hours and lose 20 dollars or so and have a few n/c drinks...I figure I'm ahead of the game.

I normally take a couple thousand dollars for a 4 night trip. The reason I consider last year a success, I never had to find the ATM (the only machine that pays off every time). I lost almost a thousand at the Paris in a couple of hours. Then held my own pretty good at Mandalay Bay the rest of the trip ( 3 + days). I say held my own....lost maybe 600 in 3 days. My boss actually won 2000 playing craps. It was the first time in I think 7 years, anybody in our group had won. We stayed at Casear's 4 or 5 years in a row and we all lost big. The place across the street from Casears ( I think O'sheas ?) was probably more my speed.

Thanks everybody for your input. The trip to Vegas is my favorite time of the year.

strip clubs:  Quality varies with the club.  Quantity may help so prime time at a larger club like Sapphires or Rick's might have better lookers.  VIP dance sets are usually $100/3songs in topless clubs, the alternative being VIP time being around $600/hour in 15 or 30 min increments plus overpriced VIP drinks.  If by quality you mean better lap dances, it may be due to vice being a bit too eager to bust dancers and making more frequent visits to the area clubs.

As for table games and drinking, pai gow poker is probably a better choice than 3 card poker.  They have a fortune bonus that usually offers an envy bonus on a $5+ bet (the envy pays when another player at the table gets a 4 of a kind or better).  The bonuses are usually bad vigs (7+%) but a $5 bonus bet can easily take that down to the 3+% level at a full table when there's an envy.  Pai gow poker is a slower game (players having to setup their 7 cards into a 5 card & 2 card poker hand) so it's not great for comps but it allows your bankroll to last longer (roughly 40% chance of a push, with a slight edge to the bank at other times; house takes a 5% commission on winnings) and allow for more drink service.  If you can take the larger swings in bankroll, you can bank all bets at the table (the fortune bonus is always against the house) and actually have a lower vig due to the banker winning ties (CA card rooms always has a player banker at a table).  Best thing, if you don't know how to set your hand, the dealer will set it the house way for you (another tactic to slow down the game).  Usually the limits are $25 or higher at a place like Caesars on the weekend but you might find lower limits at O'Sheas/Flamingo, IP, or Bill's (closer to $10-15, maybe even $5 if it's really slow).  I've had $200 last several hours at a $10 pai gow poker table (with generous tips for the cocktail waitress and dealers).

Good luck,
 Bob