Hello,

    I will be visiting Las Vegas in July, and yes, I hope to get together with a provider while I am there.  I have narrowed my hotel choices down to the MGM Grand and the Mirage.  Which would be the better choice as far as an overall visiting experience?  Which has the easiest security to deal with?  To any providers that may read this, your insight is welcome as well.

Thanks for the help

WFONE

MGM has security in the elevator lobby area, but they don't check keys.

Mirage is a much more beautiful hotel! Very tropical I have only seen them check for keys during big events. Hope you have fun, DevinDDD

I've never stayed at the Mirage but I stayed at MGM last year.  I'd say avoid it!  I really didn't like it, just way too huge and even after a week there I was still getting lost in the vast casino.  Also, I don't like hotels where it takes 20 minutes to get from my room to the pool.

Mirage do keep tigers in a glass cage, though.  If you care about animals that's something you may want to take into consideration (it's the reason I've never stayed there).

The MGM has lions in a glass cage, so both properties are even on that point.

Tanya, very good point.  I wasn't aware of the MGM lions till I actually stayed there or I would have avoided that hotel too.

I Luv The Mirage..
Is So Tropical..& beautiful!!

I personally like the MGM, but thats just because they comp me a suite anytime i want to come into town....However, one advantage to staying at the Mirage is that it is right smack in the middle of the strip...so if location is a factor in ure consideration, stay at the Mirage...Both hotels are nice...I don't think u can go wrong at eitehr hotels...

Yes, the MGM lions are in captivity and yes, they are on "display".

However, would like to point out that the MGM lions live a life that is better than most people I know.  I spoke to one of the trainers one day. The are not performers. Their accomadations, food and medical care are the best available. When not at the MGM, they live on a ranch 12 miles outside Las Vegas. They are owned and cared for by one of the top feline experts in the US. MGM donates money on the lions behalf to programs that futhers research on helping lions that live in the wild in Africa.

I know this won't make a difference to everyone, but I did want to offer another side of the discusion.

From the Lion's web page:
They enjoy eating what is known as "Nebraska Brand", which provides them with a mix of all of the nutrients and vitamins a lion needs.

I have to wonder, did they used to have a trainer from the midwest?

Carrie's WAY off base on this one. Having the lions and tigers (although the enclosure at the Mirage is a little small) promotes awareness and respect. The animals live twice as long as they would in the Real World, have the best medical care, and get their food without having to do any hunting. And as qwerty said, no performing.

Carrie, so I guess you don't want to go to Australia with me in January: the Australian Open tennis tournament in Melbourne, a few days in Sydney, looking at the Opera House and hanging out at Manly and Bondi (topless!), and a trip to Dreamworld outside Brisbane to see their tigers?

I don't agree that keeping wild animals in captivity promotes awareness and respect at all.  I don't agree with keeping them in captivity at all unless they are an endangered species and are part of a breeding programme which is aimed at increasing numbers and re-introducing them into the wild.

Tell you what, I'll hang out topless on Bondi beach while you go and look at the tigers at Dreamworld!  

Their numbers are dwindling. Asians kill tigers believing some of their body parts have magical healing powers. And the lions are getting killed in Africa when they stray into inhabited areas. And I know the lions at the MGM and and the tigers at Dreamworld are used in breeding programs. Clueless Idealists (who've watched Born Free a few too many times) need to wake up or we'll end up with only pictures of these beautiful animals.

Sorry - you can't pick and choose which parts of the Australia trip
you want to participate in

Mirage check keys after 10 or 11pm. and if you are staying in a top-floor suit in MGM then you will pass a service desk right out of the elevater and it could be a problem for a provider unescorded by you. However, if you are a highroller, talk to a Casino Host, they always will take care of what ever you need, and they often provide the best. In fact, I got a friend who is a host for the Belagio(Way better than Mirage and MGM), you can PM me.

Funny, I saw lots of lions in Botswana in January.

If you disagree with me then fine, I respect your right to your own opinion even if it's different to mine.  Getting insulting is unnecessary.

The pro's and cons of captive breeding programs vs. survival in the wild are issues of concern to all - but  I'd hardly equate a cage/case in a LV hotel to the wild in terms of quality of life for the animals regardless of perceived threats or lifespan.

I'd be more repelled by the mental cruelty inflicted on these noble creatures by the sight of thousand of obese tourists passing them by each day - without even the opportunity to pull one in once in a while - surely better than the  "Nebraska Brand"  tiger chow suggested earlier .

BTW - does the offer of foreign trips ever win you an argument?

Let's not get fooled here - the lions and tigers in the LV hotels are frickin sideshows for the dumbasses stupid enough to believe that they are well cared for and happy. The "white" tigers at the Mirage are genetic mutations bred by those two choad monkey magicians specifically to act as props in their hammy act - there is no altruism in the programme at all.

Neither the Mirage nor the MGM run wildlife preservation programes that are recognised by any international zoological society or organisation.....other than the ones set up by the selfsame hotel groups as a smokescreen.  

For a start a tiger has a "range" teritory of 25sq miles in its natural environment. Lions a little less - only 15sq miles. Note natural environment - this does not include the fields and forests of a US ranch.

Both species require the challenge of hunting their prey to stay mentally sharp and aware, and in shape. Spoonfeeding them leads to boredom, apathy and weak genetic strains.

And neither species particularly gets off on being penned into tiny glass boxes to be drooled over and taunted by fat stupid monkeys in plaid. Notice how they pace up and down....they didnt look too happy when I saw them (to my horror).

I hate the bastards that hunt them for sport or profit, but I also hate the bastards that turn them into a sideshow or stageprop. If the hotels care so much about their preservation maybe diverting some of their profits into recognised WWF programmes or national wildlife parks in India, Nepal, Sri Lanka, Siberia, or Africa would be a better way of doing it. The money could pay for rangers to stop poaching for a start.  

Finally, don't patronise those wise enough to see the difference between a sideshow and reality by alluding that they are deluded by a film, or that there is anything other than sick entertainment at the heart of the matter. Tigers and lions belong in national parks in their own countries, where I have been lucky enough to see them, or at worst in recognized and well maintained zoo enclosures....not a frickin LV hotel!

Do yourself a favour - boycott both and stay at the Luxor....10 out of 10 for goth style!

The lions at the MGM (there are nearly 30) are only in the 'cage' (you obviously haven't seen the enclosure - it's massive) for 2 hrs at a time. Then they go back to the huge (I think it's 20 acres) ranch outside of town. And from the video of Sigfried and Roy, their tigers have it pretty good too.

Boy is this post full of some misleading information. Lets start:

1. White tigers are a genetic mutation. So is ALL forms of life on this planet. White tigers are not albino animals but a small subspecies of normal Bengal Tigers. They are rarer than orange Bengals but they are neither mules or castoffs. The traits of a white tiger breed true.

2. Don't know if the Mirage or MGM run recognized wildlife refuge programs or not. However Sigfried and Roy DO run such a program and are recognized internationally as wildlife conservationists. They have the most effect breeding program for big cats in the United States. I don't care much for their act but it is a matter of taste not morals.

3. Tigers DO have a range of 25 sq. miles. That is because it usually requires that large of an area to support any group of them. To say that a tiger requires 25 sq. miles to roam around in is ridiculous. Big cats appear naturally all over the world. They all have the same basic requirements for survival and are one of the most adaptable group of animals on the planet. Tigers themselves can be found in every environment that exists naturally on this planet. How moving a tiger to a US ranch where they can roam at will and have an adequate food supply is harmful, I do not see.

4. 'Spoonfeeding them leads to boredom, apathy and weak genetic strains.' Not being a tiger I am not sure about the first two parts of this statement is a bit silly. Since any tigers kept in captivity are not allowed to fight to the death, you are going to have a tendency to have a weaker genetic strain, no elimination of the weakest. Exercise doesn't effect the genetics of any animal. You could argue that since they don't have to chase their prey, that weaker tigers survive when they should have starved, but that is the whole idea behind wildlife conservation.

5. 'goth' is short for Gothic. The Luxor is themed on Ancient Egypt and the English Victorian Era when most of the diggings were done. The classic elements of Gothic Architecture are missing throughout the property. The period English pieces that appear around the hotel and casino are definitely of the Victorian Era or close approximation thereof. No Gothic elements appear anywhere that I have seen.

Pariah,

you seem to live up to your name in that you appear to be justifying the keeping of tigers in small glass boxes for public enjoyment...something more civilised countries have outlawed. And to correct your comment it is 25sq ml per cat. Tigers are furthermore not a pride cat, tending towards a solitary life outwith breeding. I should know, case of been there seen em...and orange is their natural colour other than some seasonal whiter coat variants such as the siberian.

The reason that white Bengals are a small group is that, not blending in with their environments too well, they dont make for as effective hunters as their orange cousins, and were therefore becoming the victims of old mother evolution, (as well as us monkeys helping the whole species along with its extinction). The more effective orange/black/white type become more dominant as they fit the environment. And evolution is not mutation, it is development, and that is why we have diversification of species. Development = diversity, mutation = stagnation. Inbreed a small subgroup and you end up with unnatural and weak species.

My mate the respected UK zoologist did have a laugh at your S&R defence. He termed them educated amateurs with too much money and time, and too little sense. They are not respected in the conservationist sense, just as breeders and collectors....bit like a pedigree mutt breeder. As he said, serious conservationists never turn their charges into props and photo opportunities. They ensure that their charges are kept in as natural environment as possible, ie, a wildlife reserve in the country they belong in. S&R have just conned a lot of people into believing in "the magic".

Boredom and apathy in big cats is manifested in pacing and chewing response - as can be seen at the mirage enclosure. That behaviour is symptomatic of unhappy kittys mate - take my mates word for it - he is an expret after all. And he did complain to the management about the conditions after reeling in horror at the Mirage encloure. Positively Victoran he commented I think.

Which brings me on to your Luxor sting....note small g in goth...and I said goth not Gothic....that will be a reference to the fashion style not the architecture. Goths love faux egyptian stuff, andkhs, eye of horus tattoos....I should know as I am one. What can be more goth than a big black pyramid in the desert? I do know about Gothic architecture too y'see, as I now live in Europe where they have a lot of it hanging about. I also can tell when to use the small or large G.

Finally I note that you do not counter my point about more effective conservation being carried out were S&R or their employers to offer effective long term funding to wildlife parks in Africa et all instead of running their own little fishfarms. Not too sure about MGM & S&Rs glowing conservationist status?

Now where were we...ah yes...the MGM and Mirage still and always will SUCK!!!

Thus speaks Mr Hemmingway the conservationist methinks....LOL.

I know, why dont we just preserve them by shooting them and nailing their heads on boards?

Get real mate

Much better post, some facts come into play.

Nope, not justifying keeping tigers in small glass boxes, but putting them safely on display for short periods of time seems to be a small price for continuation of a species. Did a little checking and the ranges for tiger vary from 10 sq. miles to as much as 30 sq. miles. By the way, the appropriate abbreviation for miles is 'mi' not 'ml', that is milliliters. The variant of the Bengal tiger is NOT a seasonal variation, but a recognized variety of the subspecies. I made an error in my previous post and said they were a subspecies. This is incorrect they are merely a variety of a subspecies.

Your opinion of why there aree less White Bengals as opposed to other varieties is interesting and possible. Humans will definitely treasure a rarer breed for their fur. Coloration might not be the only reason for rarity and neither may survival. Without some scientific proof it is just an opinion and doesn't even deserve to be called a theory.

Mutation is a part of the evolutionary process. Every species mutates. If a mutation survives to breed then it is successful. If the mutation continues to survive in continuing generations it is considered stable. Multiple stable mutations can lead to speciation. The white color of some of the tigers is such a mutation. It has progressed to the point of stability. In the future it may lead to a whole new breed of cat. White tigers, as well as white lions, are the result of a genetic mutation known as leucism.

Your unnamed friends opinions about S&R are interesting. Since the two men have successfully bred more white tigers than any zoo or wildlife reserve, their amateur status is also a matter of opinion. They have living with them a significant portion of the white bengal population. Whether you like it or not, their breeding program is effective and has brought more healthy adults into the population.

I am not an expert on big cats and do not profess any special knowledge. Your friends comments are entertaining. The Victorians would have kept the cats in parlors in their houses behind bars or in the stereotyped circus wagon.

We differ on our opinions of what is goth. From what I have seen the movement is a blending of victorian clothing, vampire myth and a good splash of Cthulu. The Egyptian elements come mostly from the Cthulu stories. Egyptian gods, the mythology of Egypt and most of the symbols are not used or recognized in the goth world.

You are right in that I didn't offer a comment on financing wildlife reserves in Africa and India. Wildlife reserves in both areas have proven to have fatal flaws and have actually made poaching easier. Since I have no better solution than the reserves, I offered none. Personally I would rather see them fund a genetics bank for rare and endangered species. Both resorts are free to do with their profits what they wish. They are not physically harming the tigers and are actually helping to add to their populations. They live longer in captivity than they do in the wild and are much healthier physically.