http://www.vox.com/22338807/asian-fetish-racism-atlanta-shooting
The history of fetishizing Asian women
I would submit that this author has not had as many in-depth conversations with Asian sex workers as many of us have had. A lot of her views are based on the "sex-slave" model that the MSM always defaults to when something like the Atlanta killings take place. I agree with some of her points about the fantasy objectification of Asian women by whites who have had limited experience with Asian women. Her complaint about a binary view (either submissive or sexually aggressive) of Asian women among mongers is perpetuated by the girls themselves, as they know what sells and what doesn't, and are intuitive about whether a customer has a submissive Asian fantasy or sexually dominant Asian fantasy. They will tailor the session accordingly. As you get to know Kgirls in real life, you begin to discover all of the degrees of variation that lies between these two extremes.
Although I agree about the limited experience of the author, I would argue that the film scholar has a substantial amount of macro and micro-level experience regarding the topic, the former of which many mongers lack.
The interviewee alluded to and promoted her book a bit too much for my liking. Also a lot of vague language there, not a lot of new or tangible thought.
Still a decent read. Personally, I think comparing Asian women as sex fetish vs other ethnic groups would be a good study, because part of any ethnic group fetish is a lust for exoticness unknown and mystery. But due to historic reasons Asian women shot up on the list of those fetishes. Many stereotypes do play a role.
I'm curious about what mongers think of their role in perpetuating (or not) the tropes presented in the article. Yes, providers feed into and reinforce this, but I think it starts with the treatment of providers as solely being the means through which a service is rendered. Reviews, of course, should only be taken at face value, but it's still troubling to read how a monger will notice a provider is in discomfort or seems reticient about performing a certain action, and will ignore that because they're the ones paying.
Imo there's an important distinction here.
The article specifically talks about Asian women as a fetish for the average American male.
Mongering in general, is whole other can of worms. You bring the two together, it's worth separating these imo.
P4p has always been looked down upon as an activity. The idea of selling and buying transactional sex doesn't sit well with a lot of people. Ironically, in a land where lobbying exists and is considered a norm, where voices and thoughts are routinely bought and sold, p4p is somehow vile and immoral. Even though much of casual sex is indirectly sold anyway.
Now to go back to your question, well if providers were only looked as a mean to provide the service, then it wouldn't matter whether or not they were Asian, right? Why would ethnicity matter then?
So your question is more of a general mongering question. I think the question that needs to be asked is... how are Asian women, including sex workers different from non-Asian, non-american (white) women and sex workers. And the answer is then a part of what you said, unfortunately. Stereotypes wise, the Asian woman APPEAR to American males as slim, tight (yes, there), somewhat docile, more obedient and submissive, while being smarter on average.
There is absolutely zero excuse for not stopping doing what the provider is uncomfortable doing. There is zero excuse for treating a provider like a piece of meat.
My take on the whole atl spa situation is that, if indeed this loon thought of spa as temptation, it's because it's the type of p4p that is easily the most accessible one. Probably the only type he could get in and experience, and it just happens that a storefront amp is the easiest, most accessible and most 'safe' p4p there is (streetwalkers and cheads are not safe) . The girls working storefront are a butt of many happy ending jokes. And storefronts tend to be mostly Asian. That's now things work.
Appreciate the response. I mentioned mongering because the film scholar mentions that she studies Asian and Asian American sex workers and I think the presentation of Asian sexuality in Western society is relevant to Asian sex work.
There are a lot of reviews where reviewers talk about "Kgirls that can take a pounding." This is the zenith of objectification, and its clear these guys have no concerns about whether the Kgirl is having a good time or not. The sex is always better when the girl is enjoying it, too, but you don't get that by giving them a "pounding." Never met a Kgirl that said, "Fuck me til it hurts me." Then there are more guys that see her BECAUSE she can take a pounding. Whether a Kgirl is good, bad or in between, I always treat them with the same respect I show a civvie girl who is fucking me for free. Just because I'm paying doesn't mean the rules of decency change, it just means I'm probably getting a prettier and more experienced sex partner than what I would get in a civvie, so why treat the civvie better than the Kgirl? (That's a rhetorical question.)
Nothing about taking a pounding really says objectification to me. Sorry, I disagree.
Delivering a pounding doesn't mean fucking so it hurts them. Fucking so it hurts them is very close to a r8pe if you don't stop and you see the girl is in pain.
Vigorous sex is not objectification. Many kgirls are great at it. It's a skill set and a coveted one, sure. Many service queens are seeked out because they themselves are agressive and they pound YOU sometimes as much or more than you pound them. The first time I saw my girl Yuna, she jackhammered me in acg for over 20 minutes in perfect rhythm. My pelvis hurt afterwards but I had an amazing grin on my face.
A skillset isn't really objectification. A pro team wanting to draft an athlete because he can run A 4.3 40 yard dash or do 35 bench reps isn't objectification.
This hobby does have some objectification to it, and imo it mostly has to do with looks. Unfortunately. looks are a huge part of what you pay for, so I think everyone agrees most people don't like overweight sex workers, nor do they want really hurt faces. And in this case, you're not quantifying their work, which they may do really amazingly and have the best skillet. But something that they are and cannot change easily. So it's way more objectification than a skill set.
Of course, there is also objectification of the worst kind - treating the girl worse because you think she's beneath you because she is a sex worker. That's the one that really makes pieces of crap stand out.
opposite sides of this topic before. Taking a pounding is NOT part of a skill set. The skill set has to do with the skills she uses to get you going, DFK, BBBJ, CIM, kegel strength and the personality she has cultivated to provide a convincing GFE. Laying there while you pound her pussy as hard you can takes no skill on her part except to keep her mouth shut and not complain too much until you're finished. If you're considering THAT a skill, then I can't really argue with you.
On the occasions you have a girlfriend, do you always give her a good pounding? Most American civvie girls will let you know that its not a pleasant experience for them. There are always outliers, the kink girls that are into all kinds of painful shit, but very few Asian women actively seek painful sex. Take this little test . . . . Take home a civvie girl and the first time you have sex with her, give her the same pounding you like to give Asian girls. Then let us know if she returns your calls after that. If you had a really broad history of experience with women in general, you would know how MOST women feel about rough sex. Its a fetish for those that do, and not usually welcomed by the mainstream, especially a real life girlfriend.
Now you could argue that with a civvie girl, you're not paying, so you are a little more gentle, and that is exactly Floorhump's point. Even though, in the majority of cases, the Kgirl doesn't want to be "pounded", you will do it anyway. If you don't treat civvie girls the same way, then you are indeed objectifying Kgirls BECAUSE YOU ARE PAYING.
I think we might use take a pounding differently.
A girl who just lays there and takes it without complaining, is a dead fish who troops it out. It's not much of a skill, I agree, and if it were one, civvie girls are pros at it! If I only wanted sex where the woman would lay there indifferently and took it, I probably wouldn't be such a fan of kgirls.
To me, pounding doesn't really mean rough sex with hair pulling, excessive grabbing or "pussy destruction". It just means full penetration for an average member size (I'm dead average in length and below average in girth) and fast rate of penetration, as well as reciprocacy. The reciprocacy is important.
Now, I'm a sex fiend and I pay for sex. I don't pay for illusion of intimacy. When it's a civvie girl, the only difference is I'm not on the clock. I'm still looking to fuck first and foremost. Dating is different, and I'm not looking for sex first and foremost when I date.
I completely agree with your last paragraph actually. When I'm looking for sex, which is what I do with civvie girls and sex workers alike, I care mostly about sex. That doesn't mean I treat them like crap.
We've had comparisons of sws to masseuses, fitness coaches and so on. Their skillet is why we generally see them. We also need treat them well as persons, of course. This goes without saying. And yes if you treat them differently because you pay them, I agree - that's objectification.
Whether or not it's a form of objectification or not I won't worry about taking any side on that.
However, it is clearly a phase that implies both dominance and violent aggression towards the the woman. I don't know if other here are aware but rape is generally characterized by those terms -- and seems less about the actual sex than about the psychological aspect. One wonders when someone uses that term in their reviews just why type of relationships they have had with women in their lives, and if they think paying for the session makes their rape fantasy fulfillment now okay.
Even in the best light, for example claiming it's merely "locker room" talk, the phrase show a complete disregard for the other person.
Perhaps the saying should be changed to "can take a pounding and give one back" to more accurately refer to what many of us mean when we say a girl can "take a pounding"
I rarely if ever use the term, but when I do I mean a girl who actually likes vigorous sex that lasts more than 10 minutes or so and those girls are a rarity. Very few women actually enjoy intercourse that lasts an hour or more, but trust me, they do exist. I had an SB once who on our first date fucked me for an hour straight, finally I finished after a good 60 minutes of fucking and she acted somewhat disappointed that it was over "already" well the next time we fucked I fucked her for a good THREE hours with only a few short breaks in which to come up for air. When we were done she actually asked if I could fuck her like that EVERY night. I had to confess I had ZERO desire to do that much fucking EVERY night, but damn she was a fun fuck. Just a bit too much for an old man like me, this was only about three years ago.
Not to agree with Rocket again, but I have to agree that there is a huge difference between lying there like a dead fish enduring an hour or more of a guy "pounding" her and a more than willing participant who is "pounding" right back the whole time and enjoying (or pretending to enjoy) it just as much as the guy.
Where did I change anything?
I've NEVER heard a women, provider or not, use that term unless they are complaining about guys that use it. In those cases they are not talking about a very active sex session but about someone that was clearly being abusive -- thought not to the point they would call it getting beat up or assaulted. IN other words women don't seem to agree with you about how one might characterize a good session.
There are plenty of very good adjectives and adverbs that can describe the sessions you mention (which were not in dispute so why bring that up) that are both more accurate and offer a much better connotation of one's attitude about their participation in the event.
and women pretty much NEVER use the term "can take a pounding" at all. It's men that use the term. Once again you are being intentionally obtuse.
What's wrong with men using a new term "Can take and give a pounding" or something similar to describe a woman who actually enjoys intercourse for more than 10-15 minutes like most other women do. Surely you would agree we should call them "something" I am all ears if you have a better choice of words.
I know you are all butt hurt because I happened to agree with Rocket ONCE, after taking your side a dozen times. PLEASE get over your little feud with him and address the issue at hand without being a whiny little bitch about it.
I give a flying fuck who you agree with or don't agree with. Use whatever term you want. I'll the the ones I prefer and I don't retract anything I've said about either of use of "take a pounding" or the idea that pushing the metaphor of YMMV to the point we're using mileage in the text is a poor choice of wording.
It's a bit ironic and hypocritical that you are suddenly taking such exception to the opinions I've voicing when your last big bitch was that I WAS the one trying to shut down the conversation as that seems to be exactly your goal here.
Perhaps it's just sticking in your craw that the posts you are taking offense to seem to have a better reception by the community here than your are getting.
However, I don't see much reason to continue conversation with you further.
-- Modified on 3/23/2021 9:38:21 PM
Screw you guys, I'm going home.
You really are a whiny little bitch, aren't you? rofl
Would it kill you to stay on topic? As much as you say Rocket derails discussions, you have to admit that you frequently devolve to irrelevant character attacks.
and it's quite clear that it was Jensen who took it off topic, not me.
Not to mention it's very rare that my character attacks are "irrelevant" I can't help it if Jensen gets all cunty anytime I agree with Rocket. I would also like to point out that I had largely ignored you on this board until you went out of your way to insult me, and when I proved you wrong you ran away like a little bitch. Here is a link in case you think I am simply making this up. You clearly called me out, I even more clearly PROVED you wrong and then you ran away like a little bitch because you couldn't just man up and admit that you were wrong.
As I said before, my "character attacks" are clearly not irrelevant when they prove how little character someone has.
I could be mistaken, but I think you were one of the people who complained about threads getting derailed and moving too far to the left. Why would I continue to argue in a discussion that is a) irrelevant to the OP's post, b) where the person I'm arguing with clearly is arguing in bad faith? If you feel the need to get in the last word every time, you're not winning. It's sad that you spent the time to even dig through my post history. One might think that you even saved it.
As to your point about Jensen, I think you're the only one who thought that he was upset with you because you agreed with Rocket. Differences of opinion don't have to be taken personally. Even if he was the first one to devolve into character attacks, how childish is it that you felt the need to respond to them?
I know some of it was deleted because one of my replies disappeared due to the deletion of a thread.
who's branch it was on. I don't recall anything from anybody that was a violation of TER rules. Maybe it was a slow day for the mods and they decided to get nit-picky. OR, a post-puller has struck again. LOL
I also don't remember even which thread it was, much less which branch, but I too found about a half a dozen of my posts had disappeared with the "due to removal of the thread" excuse.
I see another thread is gone too, the one about Asians not being able to buy/own property at one time. I thought my post was kind of funny when I replied to you "I didn't want to buy your fucking house anyhow" lol
historical info, and followed the topic of the thread, which was about the historical treatment of Asian women, so no reason for a mod to pull it, IMO.
Seems like that's been happening with more frequency lately. I've had a number of posts disappear when the thread was deleted. Some of my best work, too. Must be some snitches out there?
I think you are on the right track. I went months on end without having a single post pulled and then all of a sudden I am seeing posts left and right being pulled. I hope this is NOT the start of a new, ugly trend of censorship like we had here a few years ago.
I stopped using “take a pounding” years ago. Why? Not because there aren’t girls who can take some pretty enthusiastic thrusting and maybe even give it right back.
Because, believe it or not, there are mongers who take “pounding” too literally. They read on the forums or in a review that some girl can take a pounding and they go give it a try. Then that girl has to take some time off to recover. It has happened to girls I knew. And, yes, directly correlating to the time frame of getting a forum comment or a review talking about their ability to take a pounding.
I find it fascinating that R-boy, of all people, with his self proclaimed support for beginner mongers would actually pretend to not know that some of these beginners are completely clueless and readily misinterpret what they read from other mongers. Then they go do various stupid things to get themselves blacklisted. Or more likely, he doesn’t really care beyond anything that gets him the attention he thinks he deserves. That said, I’m only going on your mention of him. I haven’t, and won’t, read his comment.
When I write up an experience about a girl that can enjoy a very active f*** I say something like:
* she enjoys sex
* energizer bunny
* very athletic
* etc
In an ideal world we could say something like “she can take a pounding” and not have to worry about some naive new monger (or a monger who is simply a predator - and sadly, we have those, too) taking it too literally. But I don’t think we live in that world today. Well, maybe in Texas. I can’t say. Since I’ve never mongered there.
-- Modified on 3/23/2021 6:54:18 PM
I will say that "when you fuck this girl, she fucks you back, or "we were thrusting together and she was meeting my thrusts with equal force", or something similar. I want to be clear that she is an enthusiastic participant in the fucking, NOT that she is merely tolerating what I'm doing to her. There is a huge difference, IMO.
I'm far from an expert in r8pe fantasies, since I don't have any, but as someone who have spent a lot of time on FetLife and met some people who were into such fantasies,
I would say that most of those people fantasies aren't about vigorous sex with dead fish either. For them, it seems it's the opposite of fucking back that they like - it's the thought of women openly hating it and resisting it openly, both vocally and physically. And some women who are into such fantasies definitely want to fight and push back as part of such fantasy... with a safe word, of course.
But maybe I'm wrong as I only judge this via my lens and my anecdotal experience.
I have no idea why you thought you needed to respond to my post with completely unrelated comments. But I suppose I should expect that by now.
At no point did my comment suggest that minimal or absence participation/engagement implied. In fact, if that we're the case I would never have been one of the people that note the IOP, IOI aspects of these sessions with the the better of the K-girls. Neither of those two terms requires the imagery of aggressive violence that comes with the phrase "pounding". In fact, I would suggest that the imagery of that terminology suggests a more one-sided experience. One "pounds" another into submission, not into collaboration or mutual cooperation.
I don't see how it was "completely unrelated". I was replying directly to your statement of
" if they think paying for the session makes their rape fantasy fulfillment now okay."
You are the one who brought "r8pe fantasy" into the conversation and I merely replied to what those fantasies entail, in my experience. And how they are different with the definiton of "taking a pounding" that cdl presented.
Saying that what I'm saying is completely unrelated is pretty baffling, but I guess I should be used to it too. I mean, I could not have replied any more directly to this statement you made.
If the monger is packing over about 5 or maybe 5.5 inches, many Asian girls will get that “pounding” right on her cervix. For more than a few women, this can be rather problematic. It can lead to bladder infections and other issues. With just a bladder infection a woman can be out of commission for days. It is not a small problem.
Maybe, just maybe, it will help some guys understand the importance when they think about the tip of their dick “pounding” a woman’s cervix rather than simply the vagina. That means you’re shoving all the bacteria the tip of your dick or condom is exposed to (not a problem in a woman’s vagina in general - but a big problem if it enters an inflamed-from-the-pounding cervix) into that little hole in her cervix. A little understanding of the physiology goes a long way, I believe.
But that’s not the only problem with a too vigorous pounding session. Those things that look like pillows (on some women anyway) outside her vagina are called labia majora. And they aren’t really designed to handle the force that a determined, thoughtless man can exert upon them. Just like the cushiony lips on her face aren’t designed to handle the force of a fist.
So, if you don’t think the idea of pounding a woman’s lips with your fist is a great idea. Then maybe you should rethink the idea of any kind of pounding as a sexually pleasurable (for the woman) act. And, if you do think that pounding her face is a good idea, I hope you seek the help that you clearly need.
I just read a new review where it was stated, "It took a while, but she took the pounding like a champ". Although I'm sure that the reviewer didn't mean anything by it, the use of such a phrase not only has a one-sided connotation, but also serves to further dehumanize and objectify these women.
I fully respect your intentions.
I’ve simply found the battle against misogyny and discrimination to be a futile one on monger boards. Please feel free to carry your lance into battle, though. I will simply ask that people, no matter their particular ideology, please attempt to always consider the safety of that rare and precious resource that brings us all here. Yes, I refer to the kgirls.
Even from the most selfish viewpoint of those who claim to be against the kgirls even being here, there would be no audience for even the trolls to play to if there were no kgirls. So, it would seem to behoove all of us to protect them as best we can.
Because, at the end of the day, if we can’t provide a marketplace or environment where they can feel at least relatively safe, we will certainly find our choices decreasing, if not entirely disappearing.
Am I furthering various myths? When "the west" (occidentals) opened up the Far East to trade and diplomacy (and colonization and imperialism and so on) in the 1800s, women in their societies were already subjugated. Bound feet and always walking behind the men with their heads bowed. In Japan, geisha were meant to serve / service wealthy men ... and there were bordellos for the rest of the horny men.
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I don't think that Westerners created the myth of submissive Asian women. I think it's what they encountered. Madame Butterfly, Turandot, Aida, Pearl Fishers, Lakme, ... are not stories about submissive Asian women or the fetishization of Asian women. They are stories of TREMENDOUS LOVE! Sometimes tragic, sometimes magnificent.
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Sort of the way some of us feel about our K-girls for an hour at a time. 
(I *love* the K-girls.)
http://www.vox.com/22338807/asian-fetish-racism-atlanta-shooting
The history of fetishizing Asian women
Pearl Fishers (any relation to mrfisher?): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PYt2HlBuyI
Lakme: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Qx2lMaMsl8
Aida: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-W--M_VMIY
Madame Butterfly: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcQNjV-YSiM
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Sayonara (1957) (Paul Osborn, 1954): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sayonara_(novel)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1WVwKLN-iY
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The World of Susie Wong (Richard Mason, 1957): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_World_of_Suzie_Wong
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHkODEd6icA (Based on the real Luk Kwok Hotel)
(Couldn't find the scene I was looking for, near the end: "Suzie, Suzie, Suzie!")
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Love is a Many Splendoured Thing (Han Suyin, 1952): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Many-Splendoured_Thing (Autobiographical = true story)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXgrcYIv59Q
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....
