I think it's been pretty much a universal situations but definitely true in the DMV area. COVID has had a huge negative impact of the number and quality of touring providers in the USA. My thesis is that a lot of this has been due to both difficulty in traveling, increased scrutiny potential due to much lower number of travelers and simply concerns about going to the USA given the general perception in the world that we managed the virus poorly.
Going on two years later many places are starting to use the term "living with the virus" meaning a return to a more open situation much more like before the pandemic.
Sooooo. Who thinks that in 2022 we'll start seeing a K-Girl setting much more like pre-pandemic days and who thinks some type of "structural" shift has occurred and things will not get much better in terms of number or touring girls and the quality (younger and looking young, good service (ignoring the definition of that term) and such)?
For those that think the worst is over, anyone venturing a guess on when they think people might start saying "Finally, we're back to where we were!"?
Note -- I do suspect the TER dark period (really SESTA/FOSTA) causes an initial drop before COVID but was not really active then so don't have much firsthand observations to base an opinion on. If you think that might have had a larger effect fine, add that in.
-- Modified on 10/12/2021 7:39:08 PM
I differentiate between the two usually, so there are two parts to this imo:
Younger girls. I think that ship has mostly sailed. With some exceptions, I think covid introduced many to how much you can make online... Add the fear of covid in a foreign country with serving thousands of men per year...
Service... I think if someone can steer the direction of bbfs being substituted in as good service, it's still possible. However, the older service queens do retire and not a lot of younger ones are ready to take their place. Still, this is way more feasible imo.
Yes, I think SESTA/FOSTA was a significant contributor. Mostly by shutting down Rouge Book and the Clit Vibrator sites.
But, in the Bay Area, I know that, directly from many of the girls at the time, the large number of one hour, no tip customers, mixed with an almost overwhelming demand for bare services, all at the same price (pretty much the lowest prices in the U.S. at the time), drove those with the most options to exercise those options and move to more favorable markets.
Now that the prices here have moved up, I think some of the motivation to either move away or stay away has reduced.
But, as I’ve said before, kgirls tend to run in groups. Sunbae girls talk to their hoobaes. Friends and hoobaes tend to follow happy, popular girls. This is true in many cultures, not just for Koreans.
I believe that there are multiple dependencies:
* Word of mouth in Korea about the Covid risk in the U.S. (right now it is still perceived as rather high)
* Word of mouth in Korea about favorable earning potential, safety and generally positive treatment of kgirls in the U.S. We all know about the news and its increasing tendency to only focus on the sensational. Which means exaggerated bad news in regards to violence, anti-asian sentiment, etc. Not trying to downplay the existence of these things. But I will argue that it is nowhere near as bad as someone would believe from just the mainstream and social media news.
* A continued lack of financial opportunity in Korea. Only a relative few can make it as an influencer. And Korean girls don’t tend to view porn as favorably as girls from other cultures. The risk of being outed by another Korean is too high, for example.
* (this is a subtopic of the above) From what I’ve heard, Korean salons seem to be becoming less popular for many reasons. That topic deserves its own thread. I’ll leave it to someone else to start that thread if they’re interested.
Do I believe that 2022 will see a return to pre-pandemic and pre-SESTA/FOSTA levels? No. But I do believe it will get significantly better than it is now.
I hope so! My ATF KGirls have either retired, taken an extended break, or stopped travelling to the West Coast and I want them back, now, please. I'm tired of newbies and average service.
The same has happened to my past favorites. And I see no current signs of that changing soon.
In my opinion, all we can do is our best, within our circle of influence - whatever that is - to create an environment where kgirls want to come. A place where they feel relatively safe (safety in sex work is, to say the least, a challenge) and able to reach their financial goals. How we do that is an entirely different question that we can discuss another time if you wish.
That said, I rather miss the higher tier girls we used to have in the Bay Area. I have fond memories of Mint, Pink, Michelle, Leah and many others.
loss of CV, followed by the loss of TER for 20 months, followed by the Pandemic have shown that they have enough loyal regulars to continue to survive, but I think the prospects for new girls coming here to take market share from these established girls will be slow to materialize at least for another year.
From a monger's POV, if you have some good regulars that have remained since the end of 2017, you probably don't need to worry about them going back to Korea for lack of business, but if you see primarily newer girls, I think you are going to find that the ones that get enough business to stay here for a reasonable period of time are going to be far fewer than before the pandemic. A return to "normal" will take longer than we expect, IMO. I plan to repeat more with the girls I have known for years that give dependable service while still trying out 3 or 4 new girls each month. If enough of these new girls are delivering great service and getting good reviews, a good number of them will stay to balance the natural attrition from older girls retiring. Treasure the girls that are giving you the best service and you will at least maintain the status quo for yourself. I see 2022 as a net-zero game as far as growth potential. I hope I'm wrong, but I don't think so.
I will disagree with you. But only to clarify that “significant” simply means that I’m saying that I believe things will improve. Just enough to bring some attention to the change. Possibly more. Maybe.
I completely agree that next year will probably be too soon for any actual reopening of the flood gates. So, I’m glad you responded as you did. It allowed me to realize that my use of the word significant could be construed to mean anything from growth that simply qualifies as measurable to a major change.
What I believe we will see in 2022 will be closer to the former than the latter. Though the dependencies I described are just too hard to predict from where we sit now. Predicting weather and economic conditions both continue to be difficult to precisely model.
I do believe that some part of this outcome is possible for us as mongers to influence in a positive way. Highly unlikely. But possible.
Can I prove that it is possible? On the other hand, can anyone prove it is not possible? The important question is: which one do you want to prove?
While this is a bit of a side track I would not even put it as which one wants to prove. I would rather put it as what type of person do you want to be? At the end of the day, the question about how our actions might influence the K-Girls outlook on the various markets is only driven partially by the monetary factors. The rest is about the interpersonal attitudes and treatment they experience in the various locations from the majority of their clients.
If the question is what does my crystal ball tell me about the year 2022 and the likelihood of the beginning of a return to more pre-covid kgirl market conditions, then I have to say that talking about our own individual ability to influence that future seems right on topic to me. And, potentially, the most relevant and maybe even most interesting direction to take the discussion.
But, I admit, it is quite likely that I hold the minority opinion on the topic.
I was actually saying *my* comment to you was a bit off topic as I was commenting on the question of proving anything about ability to influence. I'm not sure how your comment related to that point.
I would think at this point you have little confusion on my thoughts on the ability of customers to influence producers and market outcomes, to some degree at least, or that I think some approaches are better. more effective and productive, than others.
I’ll own it.
I clearly misunderstood. You’re right. Nothing you have ever said should have brought me to believe you meant what I thought you did.
I apologize.
No apologies are required. Just seemed we were talking past each other on that side bar.