than your OP question about figuring our her real feelings.
I would also say that even if she suggests dropping the professional P4P aspects of your relationship you cannot know what her real feelings are just from that. I have no doubts that even if these girls don't know what NPV means they instinctively understand the concept. If their expected NPV from getting into such a relationship with you is sufficient I am sure they will view the free sex as an investment cost just like any corporation would.What to do if you fall for provider ? How to find out if the feeling is real from her ?
of the thought from JLL. . . . . . "Stop giving her money for anything" . . . . . and see how "real" her feelings are after that.
I don't give my current real-life Kgirl money for anything, but she enjoys a luxury dating life that I pay for. But no direct compensation for her time or for sex we have on the outside. If I see her at work, I give her the money for the "house fee" because I would feel guilty if she was going to be out of pocket for me seeing her at work. I also fund vacations together. We were in Hawaii last week, and I told a couple of guys on the other boards that I was in Hawaii with a Kgirl and the Kgirl board would be the only board I would have time to post on while I was gone. So with dating and travel, I do the same for her as I would a civvie girl. Obviously, if her feelings for ME were not real, none of this would be possible.
Anytime you are handing over direct compensation for ANYTHING, there is no way to know if the feelings she says she has for you are real or if she's just telling that to keep you coming as regular. If you know other guys who are seeing her, too, PM them and ask what kind of line she's giving THEM. It might be an eye-opener.
Bingo!
Having been in this hobby for many years you find out that acting is a big part of the provider’s “tool bag.”
Of course they make you feel special. They want you to keep coming back. It’s a business.
I’ve gone out with more than my share and in those instances THEY asked me to take them out. One of them told me she really liked me and we went out to lunch and our next “date” was the Grove for lunch and a trip to look at Chanel bags. Umm no thanks.
I learned a while ago to “enjoy that hour of fantasy” because I mean, real relationships are hard.
I enjoy laughing and even going out but that’s good enough. Having sex off the clock was cool but awkward. When do I start paying again?
Good luck with any relationship you might start but chances are it will not end well. Like most relationships. Don’t lose a good provider and friendship.
In the first place, I'm not sure you can ever know for sure, and in the second place, she could have a genuine feeling for you one second, and it could be gone the next second, sort of like quantum mechanics.
So, maybe it's better to just enjoy the whole love thing and not muck it up. Just know in the back of your mind that there will be a hard landing sooner or later.
Rule nuimber 1
Do the Taylor Swift!
NEVER NEVER EVER!
Step # 1 --) cue Air Supply's 'Lost in Love'; Step # 2 --) tell her that you live in your Mom's basement and see how she responds; Step # 3 --) if she responds favorably, ask her over for dinner to meet your Mom. If she's cool with that, she's a keeper!!!!
Sometimes "ignorance is bliss" you can always bask in the fantasy that your favorite K-Girl is really in love with you, OR you can risk that blissful feeling by actually finding out. But before you do, are you really prepared to find out that it's all an act on her part? In my experience, most guys don't really want the truth, they are much happier in the fantasyland that K-Girls are so good at creating for you.
That said, if you just "have to know" then there is really only one way to find out with any degree of certainty and that is to take money out of the equation. As long as you are paying her there is no way to know if she has any genuine feelings for you or if you are just a paycheck.
I do have to warn you that if you are the one who has to bring it up, the chances that the feelings are mutual are VERY low. Most of my "real" relationships with sex workers have begun by HER saying at some point "I don't want you to spend your money anymore, I just want YOU", If you have to say this in reverse, your chances are very slim.
I don't know if your question is a hypothetical one, or if you are actually falling for a girl, but hopefully you have at least had a couple of "outside dates" that were unpaid before you started getting feelings for her. If you have only seen her "at work" your chances are slimmer still.
Had unpaid dates and were had sex after. Which I bought her a gift for the date.
How to break the paying barrier ?
The risk you take by asking her to be your girlfriend and to quit paying is that she is VERY likely to take it as a sign you are just looking for "freebies", You say "I don't want to be a customer anymore" she hears, "I want free sex".
I am trying to remember back to think of a time when I ever was the one who brought up the subject about not paying any more and I honestly can't think of one. It was always either them saying it first, or me simply not seeing them at work anymore. There have also been times where I still had paid dates but we had countless hours of "outside time" that I didn't pay for. Those girls were what I considered "friends" NOT "girl friends"
I do remember a few times, mainly with Latinas where they would start calling me their "boyfriend" and I would push back with "yeah, sure I am, that's why you are still taking my money, right?" A couple them called my bluff and stopped charging me on the spot and at that moment did become an actual GF, other times they just laughed and I guess got my answer too, just a different answer. lol
There is another, more mature way of handling it of course, but not anything I ever see myself doing. lol You could always sit her down and have a heart to heart talk with her about the way you feel, and just "put it out there" and see what she says, but just like any other time when you "put it out there" you have to be prepared for what you are going to say/do if she doesn't feel the same way as you do.
correct advice on how to make the "transition" from a paying customer to a non-paying boyfriend. I wholeheartedly endorse his point that "It should be HER idea." In the interest of full disclosure, I will admit I have only been able to navigate this (IMO the hardest transition I have ever attempted) about a dozen times in the same number of years. These relationships typically last 3-6 months, the longest was 10 months.
Kgirls are always wary of guys wanting to date them on the outside because they have all been through these situations before where it quickly became obvious that the guy only wanted to be their "boyfriend" in order to score freebies, so they can spot these guys a mile away.
Even if SHE is the one suggesting sex on the outside, it doesn't necessarily mean its a freebie. It may be a test/trap to flush you out as a freeloader. I always offer to pay her if any of our first few outside dates include sex. Once you pay her for the sexual component on the outside (I describe this to her as combining "social time" with "professional time" and the justification is that I don't have to do a session with another girl AFTER our social date to get the sex I need) a few times, she knows you are respecting the separation of her personal and professional lives, and not looking for freebies. If you are good at seduction, like most guys that became adults before the internet will agree, it can escalate pretty quickly to the real thing where she will tell you after one of the "professional" outside meetings the magic words, "You are my boyfriend now, so you don't have to pay anymore." If you hear this, go out for a celebration dinner. If you take her to Flemings instead of In-n-Out, it could even be a long-lasting relationship as real-life GF/BF.
For me to even suggest I'm available for an outside date, she has to tick off the qualifications I have for a Kgirl to be "girlfriend material" in the first place. To get past my check list takes two or three sessions for her to open up about her personal life a little, so this is not something I generally would bring up on a first session unless the sex was so animalistic and urgent for both of us because the attraction is so strong. My age puts an automatic limitation on these types of encounters, so I go the methodical route and vet them for their suitability as an outside GF.
checking your own feelings. What relationship is in your head when you say you are falling for her? Good dating that might last a few months? Exclusive lifetime together? Is it more about the sex than anything else or perhaps about feeling comfortable because you know she will never suggest you have limitations or inadequacies or will always defer to your view...
True, that doesn't really get to what she might be feeling but does get to whether that question even matters.
How realistic are those sources for your "falling for her"?
Separating out anything that can be treated as business related behavior, has she done anything to encourage your feelings? If you can get a handle on that you might have a good picture of your own feelings (if you don't already) and some insights to her feeling.
It happens to us all.
It’s what we do about it that differentiates us.
You’ve gotten plenty of great advice already. All I can add is this.
Nobody can tell you what the right thing is to do. You’re going to have to figure that out for yourself.
Are the odds overwhelmingly against there being anything truly, genuinely, binding-till-death life altering between the two of you? Yes.
I know one provider who got out almost 20 years ago and is still a mom of two and happily married to their father. Though the father refused to be her customer (she was a stripper) from day one. So that is quite different from what you are talking about.
So, even with the odds against you, it’s still possible.
That’s it in a nutshell. You have a dream that something just barely, remotely, infinitesimally possible might be real. Figure out what that dream really is. Then see if you can navigate a path that leads to its realization.
All the best to you.
You said you fell for her. You didn't say she fell for you. You're trying to figure out if she has feelings for you?
.
If you are still paying I think you have your answer.
I just want to know if anyone has experience breaking the barrier of paid to unpaid and how to do that?
than your OP question about figuring our her real feelings.
I would also say that even if she suggests dropping the professional P4P aspects of your relationship you cannot know what her real feelings are just from that. I have no doubts that even if these girls don't know what NPV means they instinctively understand the concept.
If their expected NPV from getting into such a relationship with you is sufficient I am sure they will view the free sex as an investment cost just like any corporation would.
Text, call, chat with her. Ask her to do things with you, and you treat. See if she asks you to do things with her, and if she takes care of those things. Just start treating her like a normal girl you want to date, and you'll see what happens soon enough. Do not give her money for any reason, and don't take her shopping, or buy her gifts, unless there's a special occasion like a birthday. Do not loan her money or help with the rent. Accept that if she doesn't feel the same way you will never fuck her again ... and if she stops communicating, do not attempt to book another appointment.
This is shitty advice. Very few women (escort or not) will settle for a guy showing no sign of generosity.
JLL is giving GREAT advice. Many of these girls make more money than most of their customers. Being egalitarian for awhile is a good way to find out if their feelings are real when they say they like/love you. Kgirls are not looking for someone to "settle" for , they are looking for someone to "choose." That's where you got it wrong. Treat them like you would a civvie girl. Pay for the same things, but nothing more. If they are looking for more financial input from you, then you know this is NOT just about their feelings.
and I been seeing each other for over 10 years. She fell for me and, if I were 20 years younger probably, most likely would be married by now. i always pay for her service. One day she offered bbfs and I knew she was serious, but I declined and our relationship continue to this day.
But the problem is that you don't know if she is making you a unique offer that she has never made to anyone else (o at least not currently to anyone else) and she will be BB exclusively with you, or if she is just inviting you into her exclusive "club", which could have one or two, or ten or twelve "members" who are all getting BBFS with her. I agree the uncertainty of this question makes it difficult to accept the offer, which she may view of as a "rejection" of her feelings of affection for you if it is, indeed, a unique offer, which in turn is a missed opportunity to turn her into a real-life Kgirlfireind.
My preference is to only have BBFS sex with a girl I'm dating on the outside and not paying anymore. Several of the ones I have gotten to this point told me I could still see them at their incall, but I would have to use a condom. This is actually the answer I WANT to hear. If she is ONLY CFS when she is working, and that even applies to her boyfriend, then that means for me, its about as safe a way to engage in BBFS as there is.
My suggestion is this: ASK her. If she says she has feelings and will fuck you outside of the trick pad or her place or wherever you have been seeing her, AND she follows through, AND you take her to dinner and vacations and plays and such, AND it goes on for ten or fifteen years, AND she pays from time to time for dinner or theater, like any civvie girl might, THEN you have your answer.