My brother from another mother, Rocketbro
You just love to argue. I get it. I get you. I approve.
Ok, let's not have you affirm that most of my sessions are winners; how about you read my reviews back at ND and I'm generous with my scores?! Ji Won = Tia, TER # 348905; haven't sessioned with her in over a year but I remember she takes good care of herself. She's also YMMV; if she likes ya, she'll rock your world!!!!
How about commenting on fake glams to avoid LE entanglements?
Rocketbro is all about service. Let him be.
-- Modified on 9/22/2020 2:33:33 PM
It seems that more and more of the new K-girls that have hit the scene go way beyond “enhancements” or even “photoshopping” as far as their pictures go. They are just out and out pictures of someone else. I guess this trend is inevitable but it is very frustrating. Many times the gals are attractive in their own right, but they look nothing like the pictures. And the bookers for the most part aren’t of any help. I have to admit that I have backed off a bit and have let others TOFTT, and then made a decision. Suggestions anyone?
This is what I was trying to communicate here multiple times, but about the biggest response I got was "everyone is doing it" and "there's no harm". Which are bullshit responses,which basically encourage scamming and deception practices.
You're literally rolling the dice every time. What's that idiom? Buying a pig in a poke. That's exactly what you're doing.
The booker helping out is another make-believe scenario that does not exist for non-VIPs. No one who is getting a commission off an appointment will steer you away in order to ensure the best possible experience. If you express your displeasure or disappointment to a booker after a session, best case scenario is a meaningless "sorry" and worst case scenario is you being blacklisted.
A blanket statement made on what evidence other than your biased opinion?
This is just sour grapes on your part. You’ve probably never tipped the PO for taking care of you, I suspect.
-- Modified on 9/25/2020 3:23:59 PM
-- Modified on 9/25/2020 3:25:55 PM
My opinion is biases, sure. So is yours.
Tip someone for lying to me? Is that something you do?
No thanks. I don't tolerate liars.
A blanket statement made on what evidence other than your biased opinion?
This is just sour grapes on your part. You’ve probably never tipped the PO for taking care of you, I suspect.
SLAmpVIP
I text the booker and tell her I am leaving x for her with the girl I am seeing. Then I tell the girl this extra x is for the booker, I already told her about it so please give it to her for me.
I text the booker and tell her I am leaving x for her with the girl I am seeing. Then I tell the girl this extra x is for the booker, I already told her about it so please give it to her for me.
SLAmpVIP
I was looking through your reviews. Saw you had the "pleasure" of seeing sexyangels Jane in Feb of 2020.
My sincere condolences.
The first one is, CENZO was hardly the first guy to be disappointed with her and if he had read her reviews BEFORE seeing her he could have saved himself the lackluster session.
Secondly, you not only can't say that CENZO didn't write an HONEST review, but that other guys didn't seem to be afraid of getting blacklisted by writing a less than favorable review like you have accused the K-Girl reviewers of doing.
I think this fear of getting blacklisted is a bit overstated on your part. Personally, I put lousy agencies on my own DNS list so why in the world would I be afraid of them refusing to take my money when I have ZERO intention of ever giving them a chance to cheat me again. This of course does not apply to agencies where I have had multiple good sessions that might occasionally have a "clunker" slip through. I will give such an agency a second chance, but not a third. If my first session sucks though, there will never be a second one.
I think it is clear rocket is much like the computers he writes code for and struggles thinking in way other than true/false; 0/1. Or perhaps that is the only way he can discuss things.
The false dilemma/dichotomy fallacy is widely popular in our culture. It’s not even close to being limited to the technical community.
It is heavily used in comedy, online troll tactics and bipartisan politics. These days it is extremely popular amongst the left where they demonize almost anyone who disagrees with them with any sort of persistence. But the right uses it heavily as well. It’s all over.
The increased popular acceptance of fallacy ridden logic has taken a lot of the fun - and more than a little of the benefit - out of attempting to have a good, and potentially enlightening, conversation with anyone who holds an opposing view these days. It has become the norm that people trot out ad hominem attacks, circular logic, false dilemmas, bandwagon fallacies, the wildly popular strawman fallacy (we all use that one for humor - it’s when we attempt to claim a fallacy proves something that we’re in error) and several others without blinking. They clearly don’t even realize how flawed their logic is.
Still, all we can do is try to the best of our ability to use clear reason whenever and wherever we can. I really appreciate that you and others attempt to help point out when someone is using faulty logic. I hope you’ll do the same for me when I make mistakes. What am I saying? I’m sure you will. And you’ll almost certainly find plenty of help!
-- Modified on 9/27/2020 11:03:58 AM
You are the one who's employing some of these fallacy ridden logic.
Me: orgs lie
You: you can't trust anyone, but you cannot say they lie without proving beyond reasonable doubt their intent
Also you: you cant trust mongers, I found that they lie
Me: yes, I cannot prove intent, but neither can you in the second case. let's see if you abide by your own rules and let me know how you PROVED that mongers lied.
You: *crickets*
I cannot PROVE that AsianAngels advertises one girl in their lineup as two different girls ON PURPOSE, however anyone who has an ounce of common sense might make a very good educated guess in that the org probably knows 100% that these are, indeed the same girls.
You attacking my character is just like when you told me to eat shit and die.
I'm sure that wasn't an ad hominem attack from your side, right ?
You claimed you never denied that orgs lie and looking for your money over your well-being.
Yet, you never bothered to post it here explicitly. If you don't deny it, what prevented you from posting it on here ?
You could've said, "yes orgs lie constantly in terms of pics, yes orgs threaten BL for negative reviews or when you walk out, but I'm OK with that because _____ [fill in the blank here because I dont condone liars and scammers so I dont know the type of reasoning you might have]"
But, you didn't. Instead you tried to weasel out situation where you could've said this. Why ?
Probably against better judgement to reply but....
1) Telling you to eat shit and die IS NOT an ad hominen attack. Learn you logical fallacies. I was not attempting to refute anything you said with that statement. If I were, I suspect non-sequitur would be the more appropriate fallacy.
2) Just fucking read my posts. I have said MULTIPLE times MULTIPLE ways that the orgs are in business to make money. What I have also said about the fake/misleading pics is that unless customers are doing something the impacts their profits that is not going to change. Given that, and the fact that this has been discussed MANY times, rather than beating that dead horse doing other things, like changing expectations, understanding you need to look closely at the image, carefully reading the reviews for information (not all reviews are equal and that applies on both sides of the good/bad divide) is much better for guys to avoid getting burned. I never have said people should not call out the cases where they experienced it -- but do hold the view that NO ONE is OBLIGATED to do that for me so feel no duty that I must always do so either. In fact, I suggest that since this is your thing, perhaps you would think about doing something like posting a recurring report (before I learned you are not even seeing anyone now) and you declined.
3) It is not true that "orgs lie constantly in terms of pics, yes orgs threaten BL for negative reviews or when you walk out". I've even pointed out that in general we get representative, and even actual, pics of the women at the agencies I've been with. The cases where I've felt mislead are so infrequent I cannot even recall the one of two times it's occurred. When I leave a sessions invariably the book inquires how it was and if anything could be improved. That is not lip service they do want the feedback -- at least the one's I have been with. I have never been told by others here to be really careful with what feedback I give or I might be BLed. The only experience I have here is the one agency that did BL me for some reason (I am very sure it was misunderstanding what I said as I was not complaining). However, that agency is also one I was with for years and had provided constructive criticism that was not only accepted but in a couple of cases acted on. I know because I repeated with the girls (average/okay sessions) and got really good sessions on the later visits. So WHY should I lie to agree with your claims?
Now, given that you seem to want to blend the storefront AMP and AAPM K-Girl lines I do agree that ALL the AMPs in this area use fake picks, as do many of the independents that advertise on places like bedpage. But AMPs are not on topic nor where I spend much time at all (can probably still count every visit without ever getting to my toes).
So, who is the actual weasel in these exchanges?
I thought you didn't want to beat the horse further, but I'll happily oblige to continue to defend my points
"It is not true that "orgs lie constantly in terms of pics, yes orgs threaten BL for negative reviews or when you walk out"
Right. So do all these people posting topics on here abou this lie? Is the op lying? Again, you don't want to trust me, fine. But you ignore what others are saying in liue of your experience. I am, admittedly sometimes guilty of it myself. However, that's what you're doing.
Here's what the op said,
"more and more of the new K-girls that have hit the scene go way beyond “enhancements” or even “photoshopping” as far as their pictures go. They are just out and out pictures of someone else. I guess this trend is inevitable but it is very frustrating. Many times the gals are attractive in their own right, but they look nothing like the pictures. And the bookers for the most part aren’t of any help. "
This directly contradicts your point. You go strictly by your experience, sure. However, you are speaking for everyone now when you say it isn't true. This is a guy with 150 reviews, majority of which have grades a lot higher than my reviews. You think I have no credibility? Fine. Are you going to say all these guys who make posts about it also have no credibility? Really? There are also many reviews that say they didnt want to walk because PO would BL them. They may or may not be true, but thatd what they say.
Everyone's experience is different, sure.
I've seen around 100 kgirls last year. I can't remember a single time a PO asked me for feedback. Now I dont talk much to PO, so probably it's also on me but the fact is we got drastically different experiences. Just because it doesn't happen to you, doesn't mean it doesn't happen to others. Obviously the opposite is true as well, but also obviously, I can't speak for your area. But I can speak for mine, as well as LA and Vegas.
As far as aamps and storefront amps went,I never blurred the line or anything. The two times I brought storefronts up in this thread were) 1)when I was offtopic talking about Vegas and one of my best Asian p4p fucks there 2)mentioning one of the advantages of amp is that you don't have to schedule. which, if you have a busy schedule, is excellent.
Others, including useyrhead, also brought up storefront amps, yet for some reason I'm the one blurring the lines.
A Chinese org aamp here in the bay is still considered an aamp, maybe this is the source of confusion here. There are tons of Chinese aamps,many under the radar,many not
Since I know you have a tendency to miss these things, he didn’t say it never happened. He just said the “lie constantly” bit wasn’t true.
Fine, how about "lie often".
There are more compeltely fake pics than there are true pics.
The op was complaining that this practice was going on and on, not that it was a one-time thing or an exception to the rule. While I don't want or like speaking for many, I feel like all of us would be fine if it happened rarely. Shit happens. When it's systemic behavior, then there's a problem.
I can name a few orgs in the bay that peddle mostly very fake pics. I'm talking 9 out of 10 pics are fake, with 7-8 being completely off and not even close. Knowing some of girls in LA and Vegas since they're bay rebrands, the situation there isn't exactly that much better either.
As TER's resident linesman, I think I will set the over under on whether this thread "runs off the right side of the page" at -150 Yes with a comeback of +130 No.
I wonder if I will get ANY action on the NO side of the proposition? lol
Just an aside, I think I'll just sit on the sidelines this time. Maybe if I don't participate in this oft repeated shit show between the "usual suspects" I might actually get some action on the "NO" side. Otherwise I see this line moving rapidly to -200 or even lower lol
I do have a question for you guys. ALL of you. Do any of you REALLY see any point in continuing to beat this VERY dead horse? I may have to report you to the ASPCA.
Seems like there are several that might be present.
1) Fake Pics
2) Misinterpretations/Mischaracterizations
3) Taking a specific, unique example and generalizing into completely different situations
I could probably add one or two more I wanted to work at it.
But I had my say and rocket has shown he is actually the weasel in the discussion do I'll just leave it there.
Well, let's see. You refuse to admit that orgs lie often and use completely fake pics, even though many people, including op, are complaining about that. Literally. How many threads have been made about worse practices and worse product and misleading pictures over the last few months? Most of them not by me.
Instead you only seem to go only off your experience, ignoring pleas of many other mongers. And while I don't like using someone's preference, I will need to remind you that you have claimed you never had so much as a substandard session once in a kaamp. Which is insane. Not even the most positive mongers I know are batting 1.000 and have never struck out in a kaamp. You claim that my experience is outlier, sure, maybe. But yours is as well. The op, again, has 150 reviews with tons of girls reviewed positively. Hes saying orgs mislead with pics all the time now, extrmely often . Do you think he's lying? And if he isn't, what prevents you from admitting that they at least in Cali, do lie?
But I'm somehow the weasel? Lol. You can't bring yourself to say something negative about orgs who treated you well. I get it.
-- Modified on 10/3/2020 12:13:09 PM
Still pushing the lies I see weasel.
I most certainly HAVE said agencies have used completely fake pics and that they use photoshopped pics. Since that that constitutes a lie in your definition clearly I've also said they will lie. I have also said it must really suck to have to be in the BA or even California since the agencies there seem so poor.
I have made those statements DIRECTLY to you. Anyone who has actually been reading the exchanges knows that is true.
I have also said, and also said DIRECTLY to you, that I have had a few "substandard" session. I have said they are very, very few.
I have also said that all your posting and talk is really not changing things, so why should I think posting about dead horses means shit? What I have ALSO said, is that mongers, and particularly new ones, need to understand how to deal with the reality of the ads, manage their expectations (which includes knowing that perhaps one should just pass on that awesome opportunity) and look for people that do share their own tastes when looking at reviews.
Clearly the "orgs" will only keep doing the things you keep harping on as long as their bottom line is not effected in a bad way. They will act as profit maximizer just like all other businesses. If you keep posting on specific girls or BA orgs and people keep going their (including YOU) that means something. I pay attention to what people do, not what they say in a case like this.
But more importantly there, for those that are easily fooled, or too easily let the little head do the thinking, looking for approaches to minimize scheduling an appointment that will likely be well below what is expected is a much more useful effort. First, it helps people have better times. Second, as they stay away from the worst actors and support the better acts the entire market improves. That type of process can lead to the improvements you want. It seems to be very much how others here in the DMV do things and we really don't have all the problems you have -- not perfect but way better than BA.
As I've asked before, after all your efforts is ANYTHING better in the BA or the California scene? Doesn't sound like it. But, certainly, keep doing the same thing hoping for a different outcome.
So yes, you are the weasel in the exchange.
This is a great reply. If you don’t mind too much, I do have a question, though.
Do we actually have data to show that the photo shopping/swapping game is worse in the Bay Area than anywhere else? Or are we assuming it is worse because we have two high volume posters in the Bay complaining about it much more frequently and loudly than anyone is complaining elsewhere?
And, if it actually is a more frequent occurrence here in the Bay, has anyone looked into the possibility that it may be related in some way to the significantly lower pricing we get here for the same services? I’m not trying to say that this is the explanation. Simply wondering if anyone has already answered the obvious questions.
There’s been a lot of noise about an allegedly higher incidence of misleading pics. Seems like there should be buried in there somewhere some sort of actual data.
One would think that those who are complaining would at least do the homework to quantify and qualify their issues insofar as they can from their own reviews and other public reviews and forum comments. It would take less work than generating the many walls of pointless rants on this topic. The fact that they (those spending hours upon hours posting complaints) don’t seem to have done so (unless I’ve missed it somewhere) might lead one to believe they have less faith in the veracity of their own claims than they so frequently state.
If I’ve missed the publication of data, I apologize to all concerned in advance.
-- Modified on 10/4/2020 4:45:13 PM
-- Modified on 10/4/2020 4:52:36 PM
-- Modified on 10/4/2020 4:57:15 PM
-- Modified on 10/4/2020 4:59:59 PM
Jensen has actually done some data compilation in one of these threads the other day. On average, out of new reviews, bay area girls scored lower than LA girls.
This can be attributed to many things, but knowing how many rebrands are in LA and seeing the same rebrand getting consistently higher scores in LA where she is on average 50% more expensive if she does pse, than in the bay, I think only few theories work:
Mongers in LA have lower standards
Mongers in LA don't like/want to write "nonpositive" reviews
Mongers in LA have higher tolerance to bs
Everything else I can think of would be some sort of variation of these three items. Such is, they are more content, they are scared to write real reviews, they are more positive, they feel less need to complain publicly etc etc
I don't really see any other possible reasons the same forgettable girl here is getting high marks in LA.
So now you're calling me a weasel? I used the term "weasel out" and now you keep calling me a weasel lol. Whatever. You like name calling it seems.
I don't get you. First you said "It is not true that "orgs lie constantly in terms of pics, yes orgs threaten BL for negative reviews or when you walk out"
Then you say
" most certainly HAVE said agencies have used completely fake pics and that they use photoshopped pics"
To me, these statements nearly contradict each other. Is the main difference to you between these,
in frequency of their lies? Well, look at what op says. Look at what many others say.
Like I've said, if such behavior was an outlier to the tune of one in a hundred times, we wouldn't ever be having this discussion. It isn't an outlier, though. It's the main pattern, not the exception.
Well, we (as a team) could start messaging the PO after the session- that it's a fucked up practice and we won't accept it!
Then there are those who are afraid of being BL'd for that. I'm a nobody in the scope of TER, but I've done it and only got BL'd once (about 5 years ago) because I ragged on the PO for quite a while. (fair enough)
Hey boys... If you have a shitty appointment- tell the PO immediately! Let them know you'll be shopping elsewhere, then do it! And write a review! The PO won't give a shit at first, but when the shitty reviews start piling up and the phones get quiet... Well? What would any business do? The would adjust.
Or- we could take it lying down, like a bunch of lapdog pussies, and watch it get worse.
When you have a shitty appointment, TELL the PO that you're upset about it, and will be shopping elsewhere. Enough of those messages come in and they MUST change, and they'll KNOW it. But they won't, if they don't have to.
I like the write a review suggestion. I've been saying this for ages.
Telling the PO is useless imo. Does anyone have a story where after telling the PO, the org changed pics or at least earned of you next instance? Or if they removed the girl front he lineup?
Reviews do work. Telling PO in private is like protesting in private. It doesn't let anyone else know.
With all due respect Rocket, you are wrong in this: I've seen it work personally.
Instance one: The girl was nothing like her pics and the service was awful; so bad that I lit up the PO- we went back and forth for an hour or so. I was not nice about it. It got me banned, in fact. But- the girl was gone the next day. I was a good customer of this place, so I highly doubt that my bitching got her the boot. The PO must have heard it from many others.
Instance two: I have become friendly with a PO that would check in after the appointment and see how it went. I was reluctant to spill it on this girl because she was new, but God this girl was gross! Built like a linebacker with tits. She had this powerful voice, she was just rough all around. I took a massage and GTFO. PO texts me to find out about the new girl. I told her the truth. She asked me about the "happy part"- I told her there was no happy, that I had no desire to touch that "woman". That girl was shipped to a new org in a couple of days. The PO told me that others had complained after me, and they sent her packing.
The caveat here is, these were both 160 orgs. It could well be that the K-girl orgs truly think that their shit doesn't stink. Now, why would that be? Nobody tells them; that's why.
I like the write a review suggestion. I've been saying this for ages.
Telling the PO is useless imo. Does anyone have a story where after telling the PO, the org changed pics or at least earned of you next instance? Or if they removed the girl front he lineup?
Reviews do work. Telling PO in private is like protesting in private. It doesn't let anyone else know.
I heard of many instances where people were BL for complaining to the PO. It only works if you're a VIP or the org actually cares about business. In many cases, why would they when there is an almost unending stream of mongers wanting to use their services regardless of the accuracy of the pictures?
Well I am sure some have been BL for that we don't actually now how that complaint was made so I'll go off my personal experience. I am neither a VIP (in either the odd sense some seem to be using here or the more common sense of the term) at any org current or previous. Never got BLed for a complaint.
The key point, clearly make by many, is the point about what consequences such an agency might face for doing this. If it does not hurt their bottom line they have NO incentive to change. So as has been pointed out, those complaining about such behavior who continue going to these agencies ARE part of the problem.
What I think it really bigger question is why CA which is supposed to have such an awesome K-scene seems to have the biggest problem, and in CA it seems that BA is the worse.
and yes it does seem like the Bay Area mongers, with the notable exception of Twoon, seem to be having the biggest problems.
I don't know about you, but I have NEVER had a single experience with a K-Girl AAMP where I ended up with a shamu on the other side of the door, and by NEVER, I mean NEVER. Every K-Girl at an AAMP I have ever seen could at least "pass" for being 30 something, most can pass for 20 something, regardless of their real age and I think the biggest AAMP K-Girl I have ever experienced was maybe 5'6" and 130 lbs. Porky by my spinner preferring standards, but hardly a sea mammal either. lol
Now storefront AMPs are an entirely different matter, but no one with any sense even bothers with their pics. You simply walk in, see what kind of girls they have working and if you see a girl you like, you stay. If not, you leave with ALL your money in your pocket having wasted maybe five minutes of your time.
You are mistaken, just because we are more vocal than other mongers, doesnt mean BA is the worst.
I know many girls who rebrand in LA. Some of them get praises for service and looks by socal mongers... and Ive seen those girls; nowhere near the praise.
Besides, since everyone says its really hard to get into LA orgs apparently, many mongers are scared to say shit publicly or even write a non-positive review. Or they are content with quality.
There definitely have been more rumblings about this on jackson board. They are reading what we post too. The voices there do get drowned out by shills and org dudes and captains.
I would definitely post there more, but I still get moderated since Im not senior member and my posts show up super late.
I have NEVER, not once ever gone to a K AAMP to find a woman looking anywhere near that bad. Not even close, and I have been doing this most likely since before you were born.
No, if that beast is representative of what's to be found at the Bay Area AAMPs then you should be unhappy, I know I would be, I would almost certainly be fucking White, Black or Latina girls instead Asians if that's what I had to look forward to.
For someone who tells me to READ, you clearly missed my post where I explained Megan is a girl in a coorg aamp, that peddles milfs and gilfs. A Chinese org that charges 160 or an hour. Hell her pic literally said Taiwanese girl.
Nevertheless, I like the corg, because unlike other people I like service. I've visited a grandma there multiple times, who is an amazing rimmer. And fucked me like the world was ending tomorrow.
Yes, I got the point that you saw Megan willingly even after seeing her pics, but you also claim you saw Lisa and that her looks were no better despite the attractive pics. I would have walked immediately if I had booked with a girl who had pics like Lisa, but someone looking like Megan answered the door.
See, my reading comprehension is just fine, but you STILL have not answered my question about why you went through with the session with Lisa, even after the org had tricked you into seeing her based on VERY fake pics.
And you still don't get the Megan thread. qwerty never said he was "unhappy" with Megan. To the contrary, he's not as shallow as you are. He prefers service over looks. He said: "Im OK with fucking fat or older chicks, as long as service is great. You disagree, great. I'll happily fuck the chick you turn your nose up, if she's a dynamo in the bed. More for me."
http://www.theeroticreview.com/discussion-boards/k-girl-113/re-sorry-i-would-love-to-play-your-little-game-20683?page=
To quote an erstwhile friend of yours: "..do you have any idea how ludicrous it is to belittle someone's sexual preferences on a fuck board?" Obviously you don't.
http://www.theeroticreview.com/discussion-boards/ter-general-board-12/ponymans-handle-seems-appropriate-since-hes-a-horses-ass-766455?page=
-- Modified on 9/27/2020 3:52:35 PM
What else would YOU call her besides the kind of provider you prefer? Bwahahahaha
Mocking someone's sexual preferences on a fuckboard? Very welcoming indeed. Why don't you tell qwerty how you really feel about him going through with the appointment with Megan, chickenshit?
no context, so that's why you're too chicken-shit to add the link. How ironic you call others chickenshit. I think just about everyone here is onto you now. How many hours a day do you spend trying to find posts from the past of mine that you can take out of context? I'm guessing this was one of my humorous sarcasm posts, but I don't remember it, and again, you don't provide the link so we can see the context. Just how fucking desperate are you? How many years now have I lived rent-free in your head? I guess you just like being made of fool of, and that's why are will always be BLPOS.
...as you almost ALWAYS do, you justify it by saying you're waiting for me to call you on it so that you can then post the link and "ram it up my fat ass" to quote you (Do you need a link for that quote too?).
But when I don't post a link, it's because I'm "too chicken-shit." And you're not denying you made that quote. You're already justifying it by saying there MUST be some excuse for your quote such as "humorous sarcasm" so you can weasel your way out of your own words. You really are a pathetic loser.
Here you go, start weaseling:
http://www.theeroticreview.com/discussion-boards/politics-and-religion-39/you-have-proven-yourself-a-moron-once-again-----365949?page=
BTW, you ran away like a little bitch from this quote: "..do you have any idea how ludicrous it is to belittle someone's sexual preferences on a fuck board?"
http://www.theeroticreview.com/discussion-boards/ter-general-board-12/ponymans-handle-seems-appropriate-since-hes-a-horses-ass-766455?page=
I can't wait for you to mock mrfisher the next time he talks about his predilection for "snowballing."
-- Modified on 10/2/2020 9:37:47 PM
You will see that you apologized to me and admitted I was correct in my usage of the term, "Ghetto" after I provided the Webster's dictionary link. They you lamely tried to spin it into another attack because you failed so miserably on calling me out on my post.
When you take isolated posts out of a thread and try to say they mean something other than what the context is, do you really think nobody is going to read the rest of the thread to understand the context. You mistakenly think you are smarter than all of us who see Kgirls, but every time you come here, you get your ass kicked. Time to shirk away again. You're not going to be able to hang your bullshit racist tag around my neck. In fact, YOU are the own who only sees white girls, so how about a little introspection when it comes to racism.
Looks like you finally have an ally in the blacklisted loser Hereissome. I knew it would happen one day. We just had to wait for a guy who was incredibly stupid. You guys should go get a room together while he's still willing to have his nose up your ass. Once he finds out you're so fat you can't even wipe your own ass properly, its game over, bro.
I can't recall ANYBODY accusing BLPOS of being smart lately, or ever for that matter. lol
It is ironic that for years BLRPOS (Big Lying RACIST Piece Of Shit) was only known as a race baiter, it's only been relatively recently that he has shown us that he's not only a race baiter but quite the racist in his own right.
As for Hereissome, yes he is incredibly stupid, and I am willing to bet that the more he post the stupider he will prove himself to be.
quote from Nick, not me. You have been here long enough to know that Nick and I are the same person. Or is this your new desperation, i.e., to try to attribute quotes from me that were said by someone else because you have run out of out-of-context quotes from me. If that's the case, just start repeating the ones you have already used. You will be the only one that doesn't recognized them from the last time you used them. It will all seem new to you. Bwahahahaha
Your CDL derangement syndrome is making you sloppy. Dial back the hatred a little and collect your wits or you will end up burying yourself with no help from me.
That's fair. But- important distinction - how many times did you visit this org prior to that ? Do you expect a newbie to be able to complain to the org ?
I also asked a private channel, and many of them said some orgs threatened BL at them for walking. I'm not going to post it here or anything- I respect the privacy. But I heard stories ranging from PO cussing them out, telling them they get one walkout per lifetime or give them warnings.
For those blaming mongers or saying there is no threat of BL, this clearly contradicts these statements.
Word of mouth is hard to trust. The source is irrelevant.
But let’s apply a little test. Of all those contradictory reports of alleged threats of blacklisting for the simple act of walking or complaining, how many reports do we actually have of someone being blacklisted for either of those things? And should we conclude from the dearth of reports of actual blacklisting for complaints or walking that we mongers are simply a very obedient lot?
"Word of mouth is hard to trust. The source is irrelevant. "
Yet you clearly trusted someone, when you said you chased down mongers stories and they proved to be lies.
Do you want to address the hypocrisy here? You say word of mouth is not to be trusted but you turn around and trust the same word of mouth.
Unlike you, I am willing to apply any tests. What reports are you talking about? In reviews? You can't review a session you were not a part of,if that monger did indeed walk.
That's why we have the forum and private messaging system to hopefully clear up which pics are fake and which pics are real.
Another strategy is you can base it off of org, as some orgs end up becoming known more for fake pics more than others.
Definitely let the buyer beware out there. I think of the last 5 appointments I’ve had only one looked like her pics. The booker just tells you “that’s the pics they have me”. While the pics are deceiving even worse are the reviews giving some of the girls 8s or 9’s in looks when they’re nothing close. I know YMMV but fellas, be honest.
What I'd advise to you is stick with an org known for using reputable pics.
That or share intel via pm system. That is best way to find out about the fake pics
Why share the Intel via pm system instead of reviews and forum?
And what orgs consistently use real pics in the bay area and LA ? I'd like to know.
You've got a point, it makes better sense to post the info publicly so that others are warned and have access to that information
We could go through the list of each org that uses fake and real pics, but that would get quite lengthy wouldn't it
If you just list orgs that use real pics with no or little photoshop, the list would be smaller than a mosquito penis.
If you list orgs that "sometimes might use real pics", the list would probably still be short.
I'm taking about LA/bay/Vegas. Im pretty sure it'd be the same everywhere else.
I hobby in Vegas on a regular basis with the orgs and I'm pleased to say they're still taking bay references.
At least for the time being
Good to know.
So let's talk about Vegas quickly.
Vac aka Hobbyshop - routine fake pics. Girls reused from LA and the bay.
Cll - routine fake pics. Now they are behind the pwd, looks like they are putting less ps pics and more truthful pics, still heavily PSd tho. And they are shilling it up in forums and on this site reviews. To the point a member on here asked me to take a look and even cdl gave me his blessing, lol.
Littletokyo - lol. I remember looking at one girl I was sent to my hotel. I wasn't even sure she was Asian. I'd be surprised if any of their pics are real
Gflv aka dw - I remember the rumor a couple of years back was Tim got bagged by the cops,and I never bothered to ever try them again. Anyway, they reuse girls from the bay and LA, so yeah - fake pics
Asianpalace - pics might be real but old and they are blocking relevant parts of the body. Funny how the lowest org in Vegas might have the truest pics.
To sum it up, none of the major korgs in Vegas have actual true pics or close to it. Now one can argue that LE in Vegas has been more aggressive than, say, in the bay, but still.
I have found picture representativeness in Vegas is f’cking shit as well.
I’m from LA and I’ve always hated the bay. But we have k girls up here, and some other shit
No love lost betwen norcal and socal I see.
Ironically, perhaps the hottest looking Asian working girl I've fucked in vegas was at a Chinese storefront amp. She was soaking wet while she was massaging my head and was rubbing her clit on my knuckle as I just held it up conveniently (the knuckle). That was a pre-deed massage and she was standing up. Cute petite bunny who fucked like a bunny too
, with an immaculate kitty. Probably early 30s. She was a rare unicorn though. Long gone now.
There’s something about those storefront girls that’s just super hot...
Brings me back to the good old times. I only see k girls now but there was a time when I enjoyed storefronts which I have described
...in the image below.
If all of you were smart, you'd all boycott K-girls until the bookers and orgs got the message. Bait-and-switch businesses rarely survive for very long. But the K-girl business model will go on as long as their customers say nothing and roll over and play dead because they're saving a few bucks. The trend is NOT inevitable, Cenzo. Say something about it to the bookers; don't just complain about it here.
Here's a BETTER idea, how about just avoiding the BAD K-Girl Orgs and patronizing the GOOD ones and letting both the GOOD and the BAD ones know why you are either patronizing them or avoiding them?
I always try to give feedback to any agency I use, whether the feedback is good, bad or in between, and this doesn't just apply to K-Orgs. Actually the better agencies I frequent usually ask me after the session how it went. I always respond to them honestly.
Actually if all of us were smart, we would have run your fat ass off this board years ago, but I suppose that's a topic for another thread.
There is no such thing as good orgs and bad orgs. I mean, there are some better and there are some worse.
But in general, orgs don't care about quality of girls they employ, and whether pics are real, especially nowadays. You could have "good" orgs with good reputation employing absolute trainwrecks. And you know why? $$$$
No, GaG. Your solution does not work in this context. Pretty much all orgs play this game of fake pics. If you say don't go to orgs that post fake or heavily shopped pics, this means don't go to any org.
It works here fairly well.
But I do agree, trying to compare now with a year ago or pre-2017 is just not realistic. Nor is it really fair to say it's all the agencies fault and they don't care at all about quality. You are just not seeing the level of travel that used to be possible nor are you seeing the same level of participation as pre-COVID.
When there is a bad harvest that is what the harvest is, you cannot really blame the farmer if mother nature just does not cooperate. I think there is a large element of that in the current situation.
I haven't seen a single working girl since March. So please don't make it out to be some recent development.
This was still the case last year way before covid was a thing. Orgs never cared about client experience, just money. Do you really think orgs would go out of their way to make LESS money?
Catering to customers experience includes taking a short term loss in order to make clients happy, none of the orgs were or are ready to do that.
There are and were girls who keep getting hired by orgs that are considered "good" by many, despite horrendous reviews and word of mouth. Why would a respected org do that to their own clients? The answer is simple - they don't care as long as they get money.
Cant blame covid for that.
before and after and there most definitely is an impact from the pandemic.
I find it a bit odd that you have also claimed to have seen some girls in the Spring -- which while early this year was still well past when all the shit it the fan (Trump declared a national emergency on the 13th).
I just saw a girl today. The pics are clearly her -- somewhat touched up and "glamor" but not far off from how she looks. The last three I've seen from this agency fall into that category as well. The other agency I've used also has been pretty accurate with the pics too. That was also my experience in almost all cases with the other two agencies I used to frequent in the pre2017 days.
I don't claim all the agencies here have always been as good but in general most are. However it is very clear that average level of looks is not as high as it was a year ago or 3 years ago.
So here we have you you arguing with everyone about something you have also stated is really no a bit problem for you -- looks are not your high priority -- and which seems mostly a big issue in the BA, and to a bit more of an extent LA area. At this point I think all I can say is it must suck to be rocket.
Last, I have no idea why you are want to hammer in the "the orgs are out for the money and the benefit of their customers" line as that is what we've all been saying all along to your "Why do they do this?/Why do they act like this?" rants. So now you come around to agreeing with what we've all been saying as if you are refuting what we've said.
You are TATTT.
First, I don't know why you are asking me when I saw the girls. Unlike others on here, I don't lie. I am a binger and often see 3-6 girls in a single night. I saw plenty of girls up until my work did wfh and the weekend after, sip orders took place. I don't see what that has to do with anything.
You want to see my texts or something? What incentive do I have to lie?
Second, I don't know why are you focusing on what works for me. I am not concerned with looks. Many are. Gag straight up said he wouldn't see such a fat girl. So did cdl. I am more of an outlier who likes service girls. You cannot grasp the concept of me being concerned about other mongers being misled? I've mentioned it so many times I don't why I have to repeat myself.
Finally, no, that's not what you all have been saying. When this conversation happened yesterday whether it's worth telling the booker about bad quality , some of you said yes and that it makes some difference. I said, no - booker doesn't give a fuck about you. He or she is selling the product by any means. And the most effective way to do anything about it is to scream loudly. Then they might take the product off the shelf or suffer losses, so they get concrete feedback.
You clearly don't agree. You can't have it both ways. You can't agree that orgs and affiliates don't give a shit about clients, and then turn around and say they should be getting direct feedback. That is compeltely illogical. If the goal is to sell by any means, why the fuck would you talk to a booker for anything but the schedule?
I don't know what tattt is. Sorry, you'll have to explain it to me.
I can only imagine that TATTT is Too Argumentative To Talk Too.
And that would describe you to a T, or in this case FOUR T's and an A. lol
Speaking strictly for myself, I completely DISAGREE that the good orgs and affiliates don't give a shit about their clients, in a competitive business like the hooker world, the best clients are going to gravitate to the good orgs, while the bad orgs are only going to end up with clients like YOU. I also disagree that your very premise that the goal is to "sell by any means" is a very flawed foundation for a very flawed argument.
I'd say I'm actually a pretty good client. I rarely complain to the booker. I'm nice to the girls. If I walk out, and I did walk out a couple of times over a long career now, I'm not throwing a tantrum VS the booker. I'll just leave a corresponding review and let others know PUBLICLY to avoid X like plague. The less time I spend taking to people who willingly mislead and try to scam others, the better.
Again, all orgs lie. I'm asking you for the 100th time to provide me list of orgs you consider good in your area. Im good at gathering info.
If a girl does not look like her pics, is it a lie? Then should you walk from your appointment according to your logic?
Thanks for the explanation of the acronym.
I'm not going to tell you to go fuck yourself. You have a great day, man.
I have been pleased with both of them.
There are several Thai girls that work in Dallas, many of them a spin off of a now defunct agency that got busted a few years back. Great service by and large, but a lot of "butterfaces" but not "auntie butterfaces" mainly women in their thirties with less than attractive faces. I used to know almost all of them a few years ago and at the time I knew almost all of their real ages, right down to the actual date and year of their birth. My girlfriend of a few years ago used to do their horoscopes and out of a couple dozen Thai Girls only two were over 40, but that was about 5 years ago, a few of them have since turned forty, but I hardly keep up with their actual birthdates anymore.
And YES, for the thousandth time, if a girl doesn't look like her picture AND she is not as attractive as I was led to believe than yes I will most definitely walk without leaving a dime. If it's just a matter of a little photo shopping and the girl is attractive I don't mind as I know that facial recognition technology is a very REAL thing and I don't expect fully accurate, unblurred pics from women who are "guests" in our country.
Thanks. Can you pm me links if possible?
I used to watch a TV show called House. One of the protagonists favorite lines was “everybody lies”.
I completely agree with this. Unlike Rocket’s approach, I start off not believing anyone. Then I check as many different and opposing sources as I possibly can. Including sources I disagree with and/or don’t like. Because one side rarely has all the info. From this the truth begins to fall out, mostly. Sometimes there’s just no way find the truth. So you have to play the “who’s the most credible source on this” game and then roll the dice.
So, yeah, org’s lie, POs lie, girls lie, mongers lie. So, if you can’t trust any one source you have no choice but to check them all and draw your own conclusions. I use the same approach troubleshooting business and technical issues in my job. It works extremely well. People who don’t do the same do not have the same success rate I do. I’ll try to help them. But they have to do the work themselves.
But, hey, maybe that’s just me.
Maybe not where you live, but of course there are good orgs that have a constant lineup of attractive women, or are you going to claim that YOU are right and every K-Girl fan boy is wrong, because the K-Girls have a LOT of fans.
I am not going to get bent out of shape if the girl who answers the door is not EXACTLY as portrayed, as long as she is the same size and shape and she is attractive. If I don't find her attractive and if she looks nothing like her pics I feel ZERO obligation to go through with the session. It's guys that go through with the session anyhow that are the problem, if you will fuck whoever answers the door, no matter how ugly she is, that's on you, not me. And if makes YOU part of the problem, not the solution. It only makes the orgs money when lying to you if you let them. Contrary to your constant whining here, it sounds very much like you let them screw you around in which case, shame on you.
You refuse to even try to understand my point.
You say don't go to orgs that lie to you.
I say OK, is it lying if girl in pic looks like nothing like the real thing? If so, pretty much every agency lies.
You said the agencies you go to don't lie. I asked, why don't you share your favorites, and it's very likely I will find either highly shopped pics of faces on models or outright fake pics.
Now you're saying, it's not a problem if it's a lie, it's only a problem if the lie is big enough. Ie, based on your understanding of what attractive is.
How can a lie be based on your preference? It's either a lie or it's not a lie. I'm OK with fat chicks but you aren't. Does this mean it's not a lie in my case and a lie in your if you see a fat chick instead? No bud, it's either the girl in the pics or not a girl in the pics. Very simple.
You are OK with the practice of buying a pig in a poke, then say so. Don't give me the whole don't go to agencies that lie. That would mean don't go to any agency at all.
Ever sat in court and tried to argue that fraud exists? It’s tougher than you think. Because you have to prove intent to commit fraud. I once had to do jury duty in a federal fraud case that went on quite a long time. What you seem to think is so simple and cut and dried is anything but.
Your argument is very similar to a fraud case. Nearly identical from what I can see.
You claim that everyone who ever publishes a photoshopped picture of a girl not caring that it doesn’t look like the real girl at all is committing fraud (lying with intent). People who argue with you are usually taking some variation of the “it’s just a continuation of a business practice over 30 years old”. That most who do it don’t even think about it. It’s just the way it’s done. To top it off, almost every experienced monger has figured out how to do just fine without reliable pictures. Even though we’d all love to have reliable pictures. We just don’t have the time or the inclination to try to teach the orgs that this particular tradition could stand some serious change.
But what the orgs are doing is not necessarily lying with intent. It might be. And, in some cases I’m sure it is.
The fact that I’m not willing to jump on your bandwagon is, I’m certain, an indication to you that I’m an org sympathizer. Or a captain save a ho. Because in your mind anyone who isn’t with you must be against you.
All I ask for is clear reasoning. Avoiding assumptions that can’t be verified. Maintaining the willingness to give anyone - including those you dislike the most - the benefit of the doubt until all room for doubt is removed.
Do you think that maybe, just maybe, you can do that? I know it’s hard. But I’m willing to believe you can do it.
LOL. Yes, proof of INTENT is exceptionally hard. You don't have to prove intent to be found guilty of fraud tho. Many ponzie scheme companies plead that they did not have any intent to become ponzie schemes. Yet they are still found guilty.
There are plenty of companies that lie that they 'accidentally' left off key words in terms of service agreements, and there is no way to prove their intent- and they are still found guilty.
So you want me to PROVE beyond reasonable doubt the INTENT of orgs ? That's a very convenient position.
Because you know I wouldn't be able to do that. No one besides the org owners and their right hand men/women and maybe (hard maybe) POs would be able to do that. If they had recordings and papers. Which they don't. LOL.
So, no, sorry, I cannot prove intent. You deliberately are now taking a position of proof of intent required to make a judgement. How dishonest of you.
This is like where you have to prove the girl had a std by showing her test results. It's never going to be proven since you have to know the girl's real name and have access to her tests results (which, of course, no client has).
How about this- maybe you can tell me how you were able to tell that monger bros who complained about BL did not tell the whole story. And we will review the process you went through and compare it to your way of proving intent. As far as I can see, the only way you'd be able to prove it beyond reasonable doubt is to review some camera footage. Everything else would be trusting someone's words.
And if you ever trusted someone there who knew the girl, org, PO or vip bitchboys - you would be a fucking hypocrite, wouldnt you ? Since you said you cant trust anyone.
Nothing can be completely verified in this business, unless you run the fucking business. Stop being facetious.
He is not trying to get you to prove anything. What he was pointing out was that clearly there ARE other interpretations and threshold levels for claiming the "fake" pics are creating a problem.
You seem unable to accept that and anything that is failing to meet your standard or perfection is definitionally a lie and fraudulent. (I am pretty sure there have been more than a few Star Trek episodes on that topic. Oddly, most seem to have been related to some run amuck AI, LOL)
What standards are we even talking about ?
There is nothing that prevents orgs from publishing much truer pics than what they peddle.
The girl looks like a linebacker but wants the org to use pics of a skinny model ? Tell the girl to go THAT A WAY or we use real pics with PS. Boom, problem solved.
The girl looks like Albert Haynesworth and you're an org with high standards ? Say sorry bae, lose some weight and come back.
Entities that want clients to get the very best, will try to do so, even if it comes at their own expense.
His whole point, in general, was revolving around intent of lying and fake pics. What other intent can there be for a respected org to use completely fake pics on a body type they know most of clientele might not like ? Let's hear them. I'm actually open to suggestions of shades of gray. Circumstances are often gray, but actions are binary.
What other intent is there for an org to advertise the same girl in the lineup as two different girls with different names, and different pics ?
What other intent is there for an org to employ fake review writers ?
Do you really think that reviewing camera footage is the only way? I never had to review camera footage. In every single case I can remember, the monger ended up admitting that they had done something other than just walk away. When someone knows you’re checking into their story the truth starts to come out. And then all you have is a little training opportunity for a fellow monger.
Simple, right?
Still, I’m sure that some people have genuinely been threatened with blacklisting for walking. And it is possible that some have actually been blacklisted for it.
But, so far, I haven’t seen sufficient evidence to demonstrate that the numbers are anywhere near as high as you want us all to believe.
-- Modified on 9/27/2020 5:34:41 PM
Your explanation is not really satisfactory to me. How did you look into and check their story ? You being a regular monger and all ? I don't see some any proof beyond a reasonable doubt, you wanted me to produce, in your story. So what did they do ? Cuss out the PO ? As they fucking should.
Who said anything about high numbers ? First it was about being threatened at all, now it's high numbers. You are moving the goalposts, bud.
I think you need to work on your reading skills. I’ve told you enough for you to figure it out. You keep wanting me to spoon feed you answers without thinking things through for yourself.
You started this sidetrack by telling me the only way anyone could prove that it was the monger’s mistake is if they reviewed footage. I point out only one possibility - an obvious one - and you still want me to figure this all out for you.
My point has nothing to do with the methods of determining who was doing what or whether you said you had 10 people complain to you about it recently or whatever. It is simply that your campaign is based on the assumption that all mongers are telling the truth when they say they were threatened with blacklisting. And that it is a sufficiently common occurrence that we should all follow you in your campaign to prevent this and what you seem to believe are the photographic offenses that lead to it.
I’ve explained that your claims do not line up with my experience. So, since you seem to want proof, rather than trying to shift the burden of proof back to me, I ask that you come up with more substantial support for your initial claim of the nature and scope of the issues you are campaigning about.
-- Modified on 9/27/2020 8:34:07 PM
Well, snce you say not to trust anyone, I simply find your experience hard to trust. Again, you are not describing clearly how did you chase down and make the mongers admit they were lying. You are withholding information here, something btw that I never do. Again, you made a decision to trust someone else there, be it an org worker, a girl or the PO. Which goes against your mantra. You did not produce any proof beyond reasonable doubt here. Sorry.
I don't really care if my information don't correspond with your experience. These are the mongers, many of whom have never lied to me, and few of them supported me and my cause and agree with me on many counts, as well who gave me info both on do not sees and must sees. On other hand, I have little reason to trust you or orgs.
You may be surprised to learn I don't trust anyone in general, so your technique is not a strange one to me. I actually like and agree with it. However, when it comes to trusting mongers vs agencies and pos, from my experience, I will never trust the latter.
Just simply posing as mongers when writing reviews is enough to break my trust in them and never look back. If they are willing to go to that extent to make money, then they are never to be trusted. Ever. Period.
Again, you dont have to trust my information. But when it's words of multiple mongers whom I trust to some extent, and who aren't afraid to tell the truth about different girls, versus your experience, I will choose the former every time.
So, I rest my case here
Now let's hear why we should trust your experience about you allegedly never hearing about mongers being threatened with BL or BLd for walking.
And, don't forget, you yourself have acknowledged that if you walk multiple times, you can get threatened AND get BLd. I asked you wtf do you do if the pics are off all the time but you can't walk three times in a row without being BLd, did not receive much of a response back besides essentially "too bad".
If you are newbie with low volume and you walk often, you will get threatened or BLd. So the client is never free to walk as often as orgs lie to him.
Go ahead, tell me with a straight face a first time client will not be threatened with a BL after walking several tmes in a row, even if these are justified.
Your assumption seems to be that a client thinking of walking is like a one in a hundred type thing. Again, if a client walked every time they thought the girl was misrepresented, would they get BLd or threatened to? Answer honestly please.
So, given your problem description there is a monger training opportunity. Since, by your own admission they only know how to go by pics in order to choose a girl. But you think we’re better off focusing on the orgs as the source of the problem. Even though several of the more senior mongers on here are saying the pictures aren’t really an issue.
In nearly the same breath you say you don’t trust the orgs or anyone who talks to them. But we should focus our efforts on motivating these untouchables to make life better for mongers. Apparently, we have to do this without talking to them or we will be labeled, ridiculed and discredited as a dreaded VIP monger by you and your buddies.
Also, I think we’ve all read your hypothesis for what you think is happening many times. Do you have current TER based mongers saying the same thing about the use of TER resources? Or is this also from your previous boards?
You are the one frantically advocating for change. Why should we trust you? From day one I’ve been asking, along with others, you to show how what you’re describing applies to TER. So far your net response is that we should trust you because you advocate for mongers.
You have stated your premise. Show something, anything that supports your contention that this is a significant problem that affects a significant number of TER users on a recurring basis.
Predictably, you still did not answer
1) How exactly you chased down lying mongers. If the story is too private to share, maybe you shouldn't have mentioned it in the first place?
2) Whether or not a newbie can choose to walk out on N of his first sessions if he decided that for all N sessions he was misled.
This is another pattern of yours, cherry picking what you want to answer. And keeping on changing topics. Reminder, you started with talking about how I can't prove mongers get threatened to be BLd if they walk as we as I can't prove intent of lies.
To address your question.
Now, you're delegating things to senior members here. I don't trust senior members who can't bring themselves to write something publicly about a current girl or org. I will never trust someone like cdl who, by his own admission golfs and goes to Bday parties with bookers, to present critical information about current girls peddled by that PO. For obvious reasons. I don't trust people who think all girls are 9 or 10s. I've had senior members in many sites not agree with me or attack me. That's fine. Some senior members are too protective of girls, dont like change or are fine with the way things are.
You're phrasing it funny, orgs are the sole source that advertises girls. So of course presentation and advertisement falls on two entities - girls and orgs. Orgs have the final say. So yes the problem is there.
You don't have to motivate or anything. If you feel like talking to PO will make things better and you are confident you won't get yelled at, labeled as a complainer or threatened to be BLd, go for it. It's my opinion that it doesn't change much, but if people want to try it out - I'm not saying it's going to kill you. The more sessions you have with the org, the better PO will talk to you. I always assume a regular Joe who goes to an org once a month,if that.
What I'm saying though, is that by keeping things in-house and not in public, you are trusting entities I wouldn't trust to make change. Whereas, I can directly communicate to others that girl X can't suck dick or has GPS. And then they depending on whether they trust me can make a decision. If you or Jensen don't trust me as far as my evaluation goes - great, you ignore it. Those who do get another opinion added to their research tab. Calling out shitty tactics, fake pics and fake reviews publicly will always attract more attention than in-house. Especially if you are a low-volume monger and you feel mistreated.
I never asked you to support me. I don't operate solely in the realm of TER and I'm only here because the orgs and their pr people decided to use this site as home base for review links. I don't really care whether or not TER thinks it a problem or not. Org advertising in Nor Cal and socal doesn't have much to do with TER, aside from reviews being published here.
I don't have a hook or tasty premise of why you need to trust me. Don't trust me, I'm fine with that. I can only say that I told truth to any monger that asked me for help to feedback,and I'm proud of it. I never lied and I never attacked an entity that didn't deserve it in my eyes. There were even instances where I offered my help to orgs, like the robbery guy. They got his info fast tho. I couldn't care less if some senior members on here think deceptive tactics and fake reviews are a non-story or don't have impact. I have shown and will continue to show deceptive practices by specific orgs, with names and orgs clearly stated. And I have clearly shown fake reviews done by org people. This is info for anyone who wants to use it for their purposes. If I help a single monger to nudge in one direction or another during my tenure here, it was already worth it. This forum is about kgirls, not TER users. Kgirls and everything having to do with them, including advertising and reviews (core content of this website). Excuse me for talking about real issues and critiquing kgirl related business practics instead of just cracking jokes or sharing some irrelevant stories.
If you think I have intent other than helping mongers such as revenge or some other shit, I can't prove or disprove it. However, consider that I praise many girls and I'm pretty sure if I wanted all orgs to fuck up, I probably wouldn't be giving high praise to my atfs and favorites.
But again, the conclusion is yours to make.
seen as many Kgirls as you should not be STILL having as many disappointing sessions as you claim to have. You want us to believe you are looking out for Newbies, but why should they trust you when you can't even look out for yourself? Are you one of those "do as I say, but not as I do guys?" Why do you seem to have so much trouble navigating the Kgirl scene? Have you not learned to identify red flags that would make a girl a pass for you? The only MAJOR mistake you have copped to so far is that you don't have a network of hobby bro's to exchange info with about newer girls. This is a mistake that is easily rectified, but you seem to eschew the best source of info there is, which is trusted hobby brothers. You seem hell-bent on making this hobby much harder on yourself than it needs to be. Do you enjoy the role of the martyr, or what?
I don't have any issues navigating kgirls scene. I know what I like, and I know who to see and who not to see. I still see some girls who I know have a good chance of not meeting my standards, I already explained multiple times to you. Yet you still think I'm generally dissatisfied. This isn't the truth. If I was, I would quit the hobby. All I want is spread more awareness and maybe hopefully, contribute to making hobby less about lies, and more about truths.
You can believe whatever you wish, as useyrhead would say. I am not asking for any trust in me.
I have learned to identify red flags, and want to share them PUBLICLY. Not like a coward who only posts in private networks. The red flags about fake pics and fake reviews is what I'm sharing, and it got ya'll riled up. You keep conveniently ignoring that I identified many fake reviews. Reviews a guru such as yourself couldn't identify, might I add.
I am or have been a part of several private networks. This is not an issue. The problem of private networks is they don't help newbies or regular Joes. I can get all the information I can easily. Still I do toftts and do see girls with mediocre reviews. Sometimes there are no other options,and sometimes I do get surprised by liking a girl who is not liked that much.
But that is an exception.
You think that regular Joe's need to pay their dues. I say fuck that. I want regular Joe's to have the same knowledge and treatment as regulars. They are preyed on by many business practices.
You are now going in circles here. I will not be bought by some network where I exchange my voice for prospect of better pussy. This is how vip mongers are slowly born.
You say over and over and over again that you’re here to help mongers. But so far you’ve offered very little. Though I’m sure we all appreciate the little you have offered. No complaints there.
We are all still waiting for the big reveal. What do you think you can really do to fix this problem that you’re making such a big fuss about?
You’ve talked about some form of boycott of bad orgs. But, to hear you tell it, that’s all of the orgs. So, do you want us all to stop seeing kgirls until you tell us that your average joe mongers are happy?
Reading all of the comments, it’s clear that I’m far from the only one who is getting a little suspicious of your motivations. You like to push the suspicion back on anyone who dares to question or disagree with you. But that’s not how argument works. If you bring up an unproven hypothesis and then ask others to prove you wrong (though that can be a fun exercise if you get everyone to agree to it - which you haven’t done), you are attempting to shift the burden of proof. A burden of proof that belongs with you, I’m afraid.
Of course your next reply will be something like “see how you dodged answering my question?”. Shifting the burden of proof is an old ploy used by con artists since long before even I was born. So, please stop trying to make it sound like you don’t know you’re doing it.
Your move.
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Braggadacio? Lol.
I never talked about stone cold boycott of orgs, you are mistaken. I do not want anyone to stop visiting orgs. In fact, that's what other people say here and I reply since all orgs lie, do you expect me and others to not go to any org at all? A boycott is not realistic. At least not right now. It requires a lot of cooperation, and mongers dicks usually don't cooperate when they want pussy. I can sympathize.
I don't shift the burden of proof anywhere, it's just when you ask for proof, I want to make sure you play by your own rules as well. You can't ask me to play by the rules you yourself don't follow. In the end, it becomes your word vs mine or other mongers words vs some other person's words.
You are mistaken that there is a big reveal. Just like you said - the practices have been here long enough. All I want is to post about these practices publicly. So that everyone sees it. They can make the decision themselves whether or no they trust me enough.
If I see a girl that is fat I will write girl X is fat
If I see a girl that is terrible at service, I will write girl y at org z is terrible service.
If org y peddles girl b who looks like she's 20 years older and 25 pounds heavier, I will post it here.
The more extreme a girl or ad deception is away from the average, the more compelled I will be to inform the public. Not in private chat. Not to trusted mongers via pm, although I will gladly do it there as well.
PUBLICLY. So that newbs at least have my opinion to go by. That's better than nothing.
And people who will write it in private but not in public, must have a reason to do so. And by my reasoning, it's almost never a good reason.
What exactly do you want me to prove again? That orgs have intent to mislead? I cannot prove it I believe I already answered you. But if an org like AsianAngels advertises Hami/Yumi or Evelyn/Yuri or Leslie/Kala and so on, constantly as two different girls with different names in the same lineup, when in fact it's the same girl, isn't the conclusion here obvious enough? I cannot offer you any proof, and you know it. I'm not afraid to admit there is no factual proof I can deliver to you on here. Neither can anyone else,Im afraid.
We can't prove a negative. YOU are the one making the claim about corrupt orgs writing fake reviews. You have identified less than a dozen out of about 35,000 Kgirl reviews on TER. The ones for SoCal were for an agency that is already known to be disreputable, even by local Newbies. That doesn't seem to be the big scandal that you make it out to be. You have no new ones in several months since you pat up a handful the last time. You are a modern-day Don Quixote.
If you are talking about photoshopping being a lie, that is to be expected and is for the protection of the girls. Homeland security already has their photos when they entered the US. Using their real photos in hooker ads is a fast track back home. Even you should understand that. Some do use photos of another girl until the girl can afford to get her own shoot. I already explained how that works in another post and you did not disagree.
You say if you see a girl that is fat, you will say she is fat. You saw Megan, the girl from your MILF thread, but you have not reviewed her, so we really don't know if you say they are fat, or not. You say you do, but that is inconsistent with the FACT that you have not yet reviewed her.
At this point, maybe its time for a little introspection, and ask yourself what evidence you have received from Newbies that show they are following your efforts and it is helping them. At this point, if you are helping ANYONE, you should be getting feedback, both by PM and on this board, that they have benefitted from the info you have provided, as scant as it is. Even the last review I put up last week has garnered a few PM's thanking me for the comprehensive review, and that the girl was just like I described her when they saw her. Are you getting any acknowledgement from ANY newbies that your information has been valuable to them? If it has been here, maybe I just missed it and you could provide a link to the many thanks you are getting from Newbies here that YOUR efforts have been instrumental in keeping them from "getting fucked by the orgs."
Personally, I find your condescending attitude towards Newbies to be a bit arrogant. They are a lot smarter than you give them credit for. They will make some mistakes, like we all have, but in my experience, they will figure things out relatively quickly. Anybody that has the financial means to see a Kgirl once a week or more does not remain a Newbie for more than a few months. The fact that you have not continuously updated your list of orgs who you claim are writing fake reviews in over two months raises the question of whether you are really here to help Newbies or to just grandstand. Only you know the answer to that.
The orgs did make many fake reviews on another site. There have been shill reviews on here. Your favorite vegas org, CLL is engaging in shill wars right now and had reviews published on here, which were since then deleted. My mission is not to talk about shit only in context of TER. I talk within content of the other forum, sites and different org advertisements.
About photoshop and protection for girl nonsense - what part of 'blur her face but show her body' don't you understand ?
Megan is from Taiwan, she has the same visa as Kgirls. Why is her body looking real and like a regular human being and not a dolled up ps job ? Because that is her real body.
I can provide you a screenshot of pms of thanks from other sites, where I have been doing the same. Not too much on the TER side. no
Re: happy/disappointed. I suspect the main reason everyone here seems to think you are generally disappointed is in part from your myopic focus on the bad in all these discussions. However, perhaps a larger reason is that you yourself posted a spreadsheet showing your assessment of your sessions (or the past 100 or so). You very clearly listed about 2/3s as disappointing to you.
Second, you keep suggesting that most of us missed some "fake" reviews. I don't think that was in fact the case. Certainly no more the case that you being very reluctant to concede the bad review I brought to your attention was likely a "fake" review/ revenge review. Moreover, you claim certainty of fake reviews but in reality you are only pointing out suspicious reviews. That was also one of the early arguments you had with everyone here -- basically the certainty of knowledge YOU cannot actually possess. We all agreed with being suspicious but you keep insist on asserting the claim of fact.
Last, as was pointed out if you are on this bandwagon of yours but still giving your money to these bad agencies posting the completely misleading and unrepresentative pics then you are enabling that type of behavior. Telling everyone else to grow a pair to fix this problem you are fixated on while not doing so your self is hypocritical. It doesn't matter that you don't care about the looks or not. A cynical person might even suggest you are doing this in an attempt to steer others way for your own benefit, lets call that negative shilling. I don't really think that is what you are doing, simply pointing out such an interpretation is consistent with observations. As such that simply adds greater noise to the problem of newbies attempting to deal with imperfect information with ads, with reviews and with posters here. That is not helping them at all.
2/3???? Jensen, I don't want to accuse you of lying, So I will just assume you forgot. The ratio was 30 out of 100 sessions. Which is not a bad ratio for me, actually. If I were to list amp storefronts, ratio would be lower most likely. A lot lower. Hence why I see kgirls. They are by far have the best service success for me.
Again, there is no way I can prove the fakeness of reviews, so going with the mantra of if one cannot prove a review is fake it must be true, is very dangerous. You cannot factually prove an item was not duped in a video game but if you know identical items probability is close to one in 1000 of trillions, you can make a very strong guess that they are, in fact, duplicates. When things start to coincide just too much, is when the line of suspicious ends. I pointed out fake reviews not just for kgirls, btw. That train wreck thread in general was a good example of that.
Like I've said, the choice is between stopping viisiting the orgs altogether or trying to have public awareness about them. I'm not asking anyone to boycott, nor do I do it myself. What I do want is to make them better. Is that so bad in your view? You just don't like the form in which I do it. Yes, I do come off as aggressive. It is what it is, I get too passionate and a bit carried away. It happens. Not happy about it.
and you are HAPPY only 2/3 of the time. I'm sure his mistake was inadvertent. None of us are used to seeing a disappointment rate that high. That still doesn't say much about your research ability. If I was having ONE-THIRD disappointing sessions, I would go to the dart board method of selection, because I would have to face the fact that I don't have a clue what I'm doing when it comes to matching my own tastes with suitable Kgirls that fill the bill. When you first got here I already told you how I keep my "disappointments" at 5% or below pretty consistently That means THREE bad sessions out of 60, whereas you are having 20 bad sessions out of 60. What's wrong with this picture? For a guy that talks the kind of game you do, you should be having much better results than this, even being relatively new to TER.
At least read ten reviews a day for several months and come up with a list of reviewers that like the same kinds of girls you like and score them the same as you would. When you want to see a particular girl, if any of the guys on your list have seen her, give five times as much weight to his review as you would the others, because this is a guy who thinks like you. I did this in the beginning and have a list of 15 guys who have the same likes and dislikes as me, and seem to have sessions very similar to mine, so I assume our personalities are similar as well and the girls engage with us in much the same way. You can do this without help from anyone else. Its just time consuming in the very beginning to make your list. Read 1000 reviews and see what kind of a list you can make. Its a great first step to improving your odds of enjoying your sessions more. The reviewers you are aligning with don't even have to know you are counting on them once they are on your list. In fact, its better if they don't know. Once a year on average, one will leave the hobby and you will have to find a replacement. Other than that, keeping the list is maintenance free. Just make sure they have a reasonably high volume level as far as the number and frequency of their sessions, so you get real time info in the review before the girl leaves.
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I already told you I dont need classes on how to improve my success rates. I many times visit girls I know I probably won't be satisfied with, and they prove me true. Most of my TOFTTs were not good for service purposes either. I'm looking for very specific things (old PSE) and most of new girls don't do it well.
In general, I feel like you are transposing my qualms and complaints as to think it's because of my success rates. This couldn't be further from true
Again, this is a very high success rate for me - this is why I've mostly seen kgirls. No other agency or type of escort conglomeration can give me as good of a service than korgs. I could never achieve your 5% rate even if I had prime Halle Berry, Jessica Alba, Tera Patrick and Tia Carrere in line to blow me. If I drop all the toftts and the times Ive scheduled last minute, Id have even higher success rate.
You don't really need to lecture me here about how to read reviews. I've read thousands upon thousands of reviews. I have some monger friends in several private channels if I really want some info. This isn't the issue, and never was the issue. I abide by 'fooled me once shame on me' mantra that Jensen pitches. I just vehemently disagree to apply it for everyone else. I want newbie clients to be treated like regulars, from the get-go, by the orgs. Not to experience b&s, not to be bumped off, and not be yelled at when they want to walk. For them to post whatever the fuck they want. Not to be advised by some posters to not post a TOFTT of a subpar session either.
Don't try to help me in some way - I know exactly what I'm doing. However, I will continue to PUBLICLY post discussions of misleading pics, and girls who are either underwhelming, or dynamite. Or just average. I will call out shill reviews and reviewers, just like you do to Toungsten and mufftime.
But this was the same assessment I gave when you provided the link for me, and others, to look at. You didn't dispute anything at that time.
Okay, so I found the link.
I will admit (again) it is a bit difficult to fully summarize but, in your own assessment:
times you cared about the looks/body being different from pics: 10 of 70 - 14.29%
times you were dissatisfied with age: 10 of 70- 14.29%
times you were dissatisfied with service/performance: 30 of 70 - 42.86%
Since these were all broken out it's not clear just how much of an overlap there might have been but even if we assume both the first two are proper subsets of the last, you seem closer to 1 out of 2 than 1 out of 3 bad sessions. If we take the other extreme you're at 5 out of 7 bad sessions.
So yes, I will accept the link did not show that you clearly said 2 out of 3 were bad but it also does not show that was not the case either.
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What didn't I dispute ? I put up a graph how many times Ive been misled, but I noted many times that I dont care about looks. I told you that from day one.
You are now going in circles
dissatisfaction rate of any monger I know, including the Newbies I know, so perhaps you should CONSIDER that using some of the techniques I have suggested to you might improve your success rate. You're like the guy who keeps backing over the spike strip and wondering why his tires keep going flat. If you make the same mistakes from doing the some things, and the results are unacceptable, now much longer would a normal person keep doing it that way. I'm not here to only help Newbies, I'm okay with trying to help everyone, and that includes you. Likewise, if you post something that works for you and I think it would improve my own satisfaction rate, I would not hesitate to adopt yours or anyone else's suggestions in that regard. There's no shame in admitting you need help, and as long as your numbers are like this, i.e., 20 disappointments out of 60, you clearly need to do SOMETHING different.
I dont need help; I know all the girls in the area who are good in things I like (old pse), I even know girls in your area and vegas who are good in things I like. I very rarely misjudge a girl if I dont pencil her in my TDL, judging from feedback and reviews. Meaning, I rarely miss a service girl. It happens, but not very often.
On other hand, I will go to girls who are known to not provide old pse service, and predictably I wont get old pse service. It still gets my dick wet and all that, but it might not be my cup of tea, not quite. Sometimes there are nice surprises. Or a toftt, I almost never had a TOFTT provide a wild, old pse energizer bunny experience
To give you an example, if a girl barely sucks dick past the tip, she is quite likely going to end up a disappointment to me, unless she's an absolute dynamo in FS (please spare me your objectification lectures here). Performance is almost everything to me.
as you claim, then you should also know they are not a match for you, but apparently, you are seeing them anyway. Why pick a girl that you KNOW is going to be a disappointment? Or is your boast of KNOWING these girls a little hollow? Perhaps you only heard of them and don't really know them?
It seems like you and Gag have issues figuring this out.
I mentioned before that I rarely prebook. Did you think why that is?
I mentioned before that one of my favorite aspects of a storefront is being able to walk-in without an appointment.
Put two and two together. I have a busy schedule that is fluid.
Many times I have no idea when I'm going to have time. Many times I'm forced to make an appointment a couple of hours before.
All of popular girls are booked solid at that point. Thankfully I like service so some service queens who don't have great looks are still available. And sometimes no one is available. Sometimes you get canceled and have to choose what's available. Sometimes I go on a whim or toftt. Sometimes I just go to bars to pick up civvie instead.
I claimed multiple times that I have no issues with me being dissatisfied. It's a combination of factors. If the orgs only lied to me and not others, I would never have any issues. Still, I just record how many times the product advertised was very different from the ad.
None of this crap applies to the K AAMPs which is primarily what this board is about and what almost all the K-Girl reviews are about. K-Girl AAMPs are apples, Storefront AMP's are glue, there is simply no comparing the two. Not to mention trying to criticize K-Girl AAMP mongers using C-org AMP standards serves no one and is completely USELESS information.
Just when I thought you were starting to "get it" you go and post something stupid like this. If you want to post about "massage parlor" girls, PLEASE go to the Massage Parlor board and leave us the fuck alone with this bullshit.
For the record I NEVER prebook, the longest in advance I EVER book is in the morning for an afternoon appointment and normally I book my appointments within a couple of hours of said appointment. If I can't get in and see an actual K-Girl on such short notice and I go to an AMP instead (which does happen) what ever happens in on me, not on the K-Girl AAMP that was already booked up. Dude, what the fuck is wrong with you? You've been lecturing us for months about shit that is 100% your own damn fault.
I hate to say this, but you are a FUCKING MORON, and I can't believe I ever gave you a chance here.
???? I didn't compare the two.
I told you why I see girls that I know might be duds - I don't prebook, and the choices are limited when I have to schedule with little time.
I just said that I like the walk-in aspect of storefront amp. They don't compare at all.
Service wise kgirls aamps are superior,no question. I agree.
Thanks for calling me a moron, dude. I thought we were on a nice streak too.
I always said that I rarely blame orgs for MY disappointments. And I always owned up on my own failures I only care about orgs lying to others.
I answered you and cdl why I have failures. I was honest.
You asked why I still see girls who I know aren't up to par, I've answered. Toftts and leftovers that I give a chance to, usually end up exactly that. I never complained about MY sessions. The only reason I even answered about them is because you guys asked me for my success rates.
And you called me a moron?
Thanks man. I thought better of you too.
Yes, I thought we were getting somewhere too, but you REALLY need to be more clear in what you say.
Don't take offense, but is English your first language? If not I will make allowances, but it's not just me that has a hard time following what you have to say, if it was just me I would allow for the chance it was my fault, but EVERYONE seems to have a hard time understanding what you really mean, so dude It's YOU, not me.
Lastly, on your little spread sheet where you admitted to be "unhappy with the service" roughly 40% of the time, is that mainly AMP visits too?
The spreadsheet is kgirl aamp only. The 40% is out of non-repeats. What can I say, many girls aren't energizer bunnies who provide old pse service.
The only reason I brought up storefronts is that I really like the walk-in aspect. Which is something that does not happen to kaamps. Most bookers recommend prebooking. Many girls are booked solid at 9am, which is when the prebookings ends.
Again, you are focusing on my subpar sessions for some weird ass reason. I'm looking for specific service, and admittedly, the top girls have spoiled me.
I can't help it that you blur the lines so badly that NOBODY really knows what you are trying to say. It's not a "weird ass" reason, it's your own words that I am focusing on.
I concede you might not have meant what you said, but you can't deny that you said it.
Literally the only thing I said is that one reason to prefer amps over aamps is that you can walk in anytime you want. I get riled up easily, but jeez... so do you, my dude.
Going by your own numbers you are dissatisfied with the girls performance over 40% of the time. If I had such bad luck I'd be asking for advice, not giving it.
Don't hate the messenger, these were YOUR numbers that you put out for all of us to see of your own free will. I didn't DEMAND to see them, but now that I have seen them, I have a hard time ignoring them when you now are talking out of the exact opposite side of your mouth.
I've got to ask you, if you already KNOW you are going to be disappointed, why do you continue to book with these girls? If I KNOW a girl is not going to provide what I want, the solution is pretty obvious. I simply don't go to see her, isn't that what the review boards are all about?
Well I am not spending more time looking for a random post from months ago. However, the 30 out of 100 was your repeats. When one looked at the stats in your spreadsheet it was clear that you rates about 2/3 of your 70 sessions as disappointing.
Of course back then you were not really saying anything about how you don't care about looks but you were hammering quite hard on the "fake, misleading pics" drum, so if all the disappointing due to looks were not really disappointing perhaps you should have rated that aspect of the session a little different in your spreadsheet.
The point about the "fake" review as "fact" was about how you always claim it is fake and even when we acknowledge that some are fake but some are really just over inflated due to writing under the influence or just "one cannot explain some people tastes" you reject or ignore that aspect and a few posts later you are back on your soapbox about shill/fake org reviews are a fact and over-run the TER world.
We ALL know that one can spot suspicious reviews (and posts) and should make an effort to do so. That has been pointed out probably 100 times by now. The early recommendation for helping newbies was to help them understand what to look for and NOT to trust any one review. Nor to trust reviews from people with limited reviews or those that don't seem to be able to differentiate -- everything is 9. According to you, since we don't agree that we have a fake review problem that was not monger or newbie friendly and pro evil K-org.
In fact, the position most here were taking with you from day 1 was that it is more important to be able to spot both questionable reviews and pics and understand that everything they are seeing from the agencies (or any indie) prior to their face-to-face is an AD and so likely to be an attempt to put them in the best light. Additionally, listed age is generally wrong too. The claims then (as now) were that none of us can change the advertising slant that is present -- be that slight and largely not harmful to anyone other than those who keep believing what is too good to be true or completely misleading, stolen model pics for a linebacker (your terms) -- so understanding this is the reality and having some tools and strategies to deal with that is MUCH better than focusing a lot of effort on whining about it being the case.
However, your position has always been that such behavior is unacceptable and we should all scream and yell and stamp our feet about it. What does everyone have to signal properly that we don't approve and failure to do so proves we're in cahoots with the organizations. I swear, it is just like some alternate world where K-girl McCarthyism is the order of the day.
And now that makes even less sense as you seem to be saying you don't even expect anything to change.
No, that isn't clear. Repeats count too. It was 30 out of 100 sessions. Even if you do 30 out of 70, 30 disappointments out of 70 isn't 2/3 by any stretch of imagination, or maybe you're just terrible at math.
here it is again: http://i.imgur.com/MjRegzX.png
Note the final number - that is the number I consider as total disappointments.
Yes, I was saying exactly what I'm saying now- once again, your memory fails you. You can even see it in my chart. 50 out of 70 girls had 10+ age difference and I only cared enough about 10 of these instances. Service is king for me.
"According to you, since we don't agree that we have a fake review problem that was not monger or newbie friendly and pro evil K-org."
You just can't help but do this facetious crap, can you ? You aren't pro-monger because you don't agree you have fake review problem. You are anti-monger because Ive seen you tell a guy to not write a substandard review on a substandard TOFTT, in front of my very eyes. Whereas I am 99% sure you wouldn't say that to him if it was a good/great session. I dislike double standards. As far as fake review problem, no one asked cdl to jump in and say that in his 239431898 years he hasn't seen a single fake review. Especially since you seem to agree that there are indeed, some fake ones.
It's good to see that at least you agree that advertising a model pic and you seeing a linebacker is generally not something most mongers will take lightly.
YOU don't have to scream and yell about it. I will do it.
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We also don't need YOU screaming and stamping your feet here either.
Why not just do what I suggested when you first came here. Just post your finding, or post a weekly report on what you see as fake ads (you can do that for reviews but that might be seen as a problem by TER -- though you could have also agreed to reach out to see if they had any interest in talking about ways to improve the quality of reviews based on your approaches of database info; but you said you have not interest in helping TER). Then everyone gets what they want.
You get to share information. No one gets accused of ridiculous things based on false dichotomies and you don't keep on starting a bunch of pointless threads beating dead horses.
The above is excellent advice. We can only hope that he truly is sufficiently a monger advocate to actually follow it.
I did't know you are a representative of a collective voice of ter kgirl forum now.
Pretty ironic that such a collective voice would advise to not post a substandard review of a toftt girl.
Have we stopped discussing my preferences? Good. I am going to post more threads on here depicting bad practices, completely fake ads, duplicate girls (preying on newbs), upsellers who prey on newbs, shameless shills and so on. I am discussing kgirls and everything related to them. I am not preventing or actively seeking to stifle discussion, especially when it comes to substandard sessions.
As more and more people everywhere start talking about declining quality, a great reminder is that people can use reviews to reflect that and thus help others.
You don't like me talking about deceptive tactics? Too bad,shit out of luck. If you are allowed to try to advise people not to post a substandard review on toftt (which probably would get your post redacted on other boards dedicated to sharing info), then I'm certainly allowed to call you out and post info about deceptive tactics.
So I will do me, and you will do you - continue to advise others or to give meh reviews to meh sessions. Continue defend deceptive practices because they have been done for 30 years and you feel powerless to change, continue defending deliberate misleading, bait and switch and other
bullshit.
And I will continue to not stand for any of it. Got it?
but once again you are starting from a flawed premise as far as I am concerned, and I think MANY will agree
You refer constantly to "declining quality" and sorry dude, but I haven't been seeing anything of the sort. Yes, it could be made better and yes there are some very deceptive practices employed by agencies of all types and indies alike, but let's not start with the premise that most of us feel like we are getting a substandard "product" because in fact about the only person that is likely to agree with that premise is our favorite board troll BLPOS, the rest of are pretty happy in the K-Girl world, so let's start with the premise of making a "good thing better" instead of playing to the supposed dis-satisfaction that simply doesn't exist in the minds of most K-Girl mongers.
Once again, it's your tone that tends to put people off, not the things you want to do to make this place better.
You don't get to see them, so a boycott doesn't affect you. Boycotts have been tried for various reasons (most often price increases) and they have rarely worked, if at all. Even when prices hit $3-350 for the top SoCal girls, guys were whining. But the ones like me who started out in the indie market KNOW how much better service you get with Kgirls and that a $300 Kgirl compares to a $500 indie, so its still a bargain. One other thing I noticed is that the service actually got better as guys dropped out or tried to boycott the price increases, because the girls could see fewer customers and still make the same money. They had more energy and the sessions were better.
As far as photos, many new arrivals don't have photos when they are FOTB. The girls pay for their own photoshoots, and they can run from $1500-$3500 depending how bare-bones or elaborate they want to be. I have advanced money a few times to girls that came here with no photos back in the day when the booker would just post, "photos coming." The problem with this is that the girl gets no business until the "coming" photos arrived, so now they just substitute photos they have in their archive from some past girl that worked there until she can afford her own photoshoot. My only complaint about this practice is that they should use photos that show the same level of beauty and same body type as the girl. Putting up a photo of a DDG girl for a girl that is just average does her no favors. The first few reviews will expose her. On the other hand, playing her looks down with average photos can work to her advantage after the first few reviews state that "she is much prettier than the photos." I've seen it happen over and over. A boycott is not likely to change any current practices, and boycotting ALL Kgirls punishes the top girls who have accurate photos by slowing down their business as well. Its a draconian measure from the middle ages like hanging a whole family because one of the sons shot one of the King's deer. In case you didn't notice, this is the 21st century.
Rather than a boycott, maybe you would like to set up a funding site on the internet for Kgirls that arrive without photos? Perhaps you would ingratiate yourself to a booker who would approve you to see one.
-- Modified on 9/22/2020 4:03:07 AM
Umm. Of course it’s easy for him to say.
This is the same thing he has been saying since he started. “Don’t see k-girls because..”
He rotates through the same boring, stupid list.
* They’re disease ridden - If there’s no evidence (which there almost never is), he just makes some up or reposts something someone else made up.
* They can’t possibly be delivering good service because they’re seeing 10 or more clients per day.
That “10+ clients per day on a day-in/day-out basis” is a myth propagated sometimes by the girls themselves when they’re looking for sympathy from a gullible client. I won’t list the many possible reasons mongers buy into it. I’m sure we all know them. Get into a real relationship with a few of these girls and you’ll find out for yourself just how many they typically see in a day. I’ve had too many mongers I know well who also had relationships with k-girls all say the same thing about how many guys these girls typically see in a day. And it does not usually approach double digits. When it does approach double digits they can’t keep it up for long.
* They’re low life sluts (with poorly thought through justifications for why this is true) who don’t deserve our time or money.
I’ve probably missed a few. But, in my experience, those are his three faves.
Net? It’s not just easy for him to repeat a variation of “Don’t see k-girls”. It’s almost the only thing he knows how to say. Thankfully, sometimes he gives his propaganda a rest. But it ain’t often compared to his volume of published anti-kgirl (not auntie kgirl) propaganda.
Even his allegedly “helpful” posts tend to be those which show how some kgirls reviews or profile is deceptive in some way. This is essentially just a subset of his “sluts” topic from what I can see.
Still, any and all are free to disagree. This is just my opinion.
-- Modified on 9/22/2020 1:30:34 PM
-- Modified on 9/22/2020 1:35:25 PM
...It started in 2016, down from 15 minute breaks which started in 2014. Use your head - why are they taking only 10-15 minute breaks between clients? To see only 3 clients a day? If you have a problem, it's with CDL, not me.
Show me where I said K-girls were "disease ridden."
Show me where I said K-girls were "low life sluts."
It's very easy to accuse someone when you don't back it up with a link. I, OTOH, back up what I say with a link - here's what CDL said:
"Demand exploded from 2012 to 2014 and the bookers started pushing the girls to see more customers in a day so the break time was reduced to 15 minutes. Then I believe it was booker M in LA around 2016 who first started scheduling ten minute breaks."
http://www.theeroticreview.com/discussion-boards/k-girl-113/when-i-started-seeing-kgirls-----18565?frmSearch=1#18565
A link talks. Bullshit walks.
Like I said, I'm misunderstood. It's because of posts like useyrhead's who simply repeats rumors, gossip and lies.
Have a good day.
-- Modified on 9/22/2020 9:16:54 PM
You said Kgirls were "disease-carrying". I suppose you will argue now that its not the same thing as "disease-ridden." Good luck with that argument.
-- Modified on 9/23/2020 4:37:24 AM
A "myth" you say? Well then, your problem lies with COEUR-DE-LION who perpetuated that "myth":
"BigPapasan is correct. SOME do up to 11 a day..."
http://www.theeroticreview.com/discussion-boards/k-girl-113/re-very-true-but-theyre-also-high-volume---up-to-11-guys-a-day-4507?frmSearch=1#4507
That that level of volume "cannot be sustained for more than a few days," so what is your point? Useyrhead's point was that sustaining that volume day in and day out is a myth, and that is consistent with your link to a post of mine. Do you really think this link contradicts what he is saying? If you do, you are the dumbest fucking guy on TER. But I think you just enjoy being the BLPOS here. It suits you so well.
-- Modified on 9/24/2020 5:27:43 AM
Totally agree!
how many times have i drove to destination to see that the goods were not as advertised
i was pissed...
and i let the bookers know!
You let the booker know. And did that help? What changed after you let the booker know? Did they start up putting up real pictures? Does the booker now let you know each time if you are about to see a girl that her pics are fake? Does the booker stop you and say "hey don't see this girl I'm trying to book for"?
Are you saying the booker doesn't care about the feedback so nothing changes? Are you trying to say, that won't help so write the review so those who see the review can avoid (I assume that is your position but you just don't say it here).
However, I think it worth noting that the reason the problem exists is not because people here don't review or share the information, or that there are fake reviews, but the simple fact that there are probably a LOT more customers who see these girls than are on these boards. Moreover, I suspect a lot of them are fairly new, not long time customers, and often infrequent. So the cost of misrepresentation is rather low.
Nothing wrong with venting and getting frustrations out, but the only way one is going to fix the problem would be to start your own agency and operate it based on your principles of honest representation and a fair amount of direct monitoring.
The point is simple - I'm asking if complaining to the PO changed anything. If it didn't, then what's the point? Yes, I'm saying the booker does not care or does not have enough power to do any reasonable change.
I know the reviews and posting on forums (active ones) at least have the org and shills rushing in and doing damage control. So those things affect their business at least, clearly.
I don't see an indication of relating dissatisfaction to the PO somehow improving things or even affecting anything.
So my question is, did things change?
Yes, there are many people who just book and don't read anything online. But again, if complaining to a booker does nothing, what is the point? To vent?
Here at least you can warn or let others know and power to at least make a difference. What does complaining to booker accomplish unless you're a vip with perks?
But by your own statement the reviews also don't really do anything either -- they just generate offsetting fake reviews not actually seeking better girls, which actually would probably require a) the whole pandemic thing not be a problem and b) paying the girls more. The latter then means either increasing rates or taking a pay cut.
I'm pretty sure they are not interested in less and everyone then bitches about increased rates.
So all these threads and, I would suggest, your entire agenda seems to be one big venting effort that fits some lines from some Shakespear play. That said, where is the constructive approach that might accomplish some level of improvement for the guy following the approach?
Huh? Where did I say that reviews don't do anything?
Fake offsetting reviews are easy to spot via patterns. Some of them are not even subtle and are pure rebuttal reviews,which are pathetic.
Again you forget that many consumers look at non-positive reviews,specifically. Mentioning that looks are well off is a valuable comment.
The constructive approach is to write reviews and spread the info publicly, instead of private channels. I've been advocating it from day one. Don't be scared to write that girl X is fat. That girl y is loose. That girl z is pushing 50. Obviously, positive things too. But this is a discussion of how you're paying for a pig in a poke - an unknown quality.
Also I don't mind paying the girls more if it means higher quality girls who are happier and are more rested. Unfortunately, it doesn't really work like that. What happens is that you have the same ol girls upselling more. I'd have no issues paying my atfs double of what they're getting. They work their ass off.
Ideally, girls who have bad rep and reviews can only work in lower tier agencies (or maybe not work at all, if a girl rep and reviews are low, maybe it's time for another professiob) and the "better" agencies don't employ them at all.
And not being scared to show pics of real girls. You can't show the face, show a body. Don't show me a model body with 95% PSd face. Why can a corg do that even tho their milf/Gilf tw girl is not a looker ? Last I checked TW and South Korea visas to US are the same.
Fuck it I'm gonna make a thread about it.
I didn't claim you said the reviews don't do anything.
What I was pointing out was about all they did seem to accomplish was generating additional fake reviews because the honest/true reviews -- maybe I should call them the RTMRH (Reviews That Make Rocket Happy) reviews -- are ALSO NOT changing the orgs behavior regarding the ads or selections.
You simply run right past that rather obvious and glaring fact.
I've read "But by your own statement the reviews also don't really do anything either"...I likely misinterpreted this,but I've read it as "you are saying that reviews don't do anything either"
OK, no biggie. I can go with your glaring fact.
Complaining to PO leads to nothing, nada
Posting on the forums or posting a review publicly leads to people reading the info and choosing to vote with their wallet, hence prompting orgs to try and claw their money back with fake agenda reviews.
It's pretty clear to me which way is the better one if one is concerned with monger well-being.
Sure, it might not change advertisement practices, but if a girl is getting less business as a result of worse reviews, this means the org is getting less business. Which is a win. What does complaining to PO accomplish besides in many cases being placed on BL or being internally labeled "complainer"?
On the Jackson forum I loudly complained where a certain LA org re-employed a girl (she's mentioned in this thread btw) who the resident shill there claimed the booker did not want back. I went and showed him the hypocrisy. A few days later that girl was gone. Better late than never. So, anecdotal experience, but again - if you yell loud enough, people will listen and take note. Bad pr could be damaging if there are a lot of people taking note.
Cheers
better when it is clearly not changing any of the agency behavior regarding what they offer and how they represent it? Moreover, given that the reviews are not changing that the reviews are also not really changing the behavior of most, and probably a very large percentage, of their customers; the very mongers you claim are being helped.
THAT is what I was talking about and I don't think it was that difficult to understand was the point of my posts.
Just because it may be impossible to change a org's behavior as their practices clearly aren't affecting their income, doesn't mean people can't do their part to alert those, small as they may be, who read reviews. Resigning yourself to fake pictures and disappointment makes no sense. As an aside, although you accused Rocket of poor reading comprehension, you should examine yours as well.
My claim was not that sharing bad behaviors is not helpful, only that it is not sufficient to change the way these orgs rocket is all worked up about act. I don't have to resign myself to fake pictures or disappointment as for the most part the agencies I've booked with are pretty good about their pics -- not perfect but the really misleading ones are few and those providers leave quickly.
Rocket has consistently misrepresented what I've been saying since pretty much day one that he has been here.
I did not misrepresent anything. The debate was telling the booker about bad quality VS letting others know about bad quality.
The former does nothing, period.
The second, while it probably won't do much in the grand scheme, is strictly better as it will make the org less money and will make them work harder. Perhaps, in the long run, if they have enough such incidents, they will change their approach and get better quality or be more honest. Or require all girls to use pics that at least resemble their body type. It's a long shot.
"but the really misleading ones are few and those providers leave quickly"
How do you know, Jensen? You've told me you never had a subpar experience with a kgirl and never met someone who was misrepresented beyond your range. What's your source here?
TER reviews are also often full of inflated grades. People don't share enough of "really misleading" ones, don't you think? Most of info is passed via private channels.
If you don't see how letting other mongers PUBLICLY know, however small the community is, is better than not letting anyone know, I'm not sure we need to continue this discussion.
Do you know which works better to raise awareness and fix shit if theres a critical bug in software - post it publicly or keep it to two people ?
It's the former.
Will it make programmers write better code later ? Not necessarily. But it will make the product team scramble around, involve pr, and make a fix FAST. It does affect their business, whether you like to admit it or not. If it didn't, again, orgs wouldn't ever write fake reviews back. What's the point if it doesn't affect them ? Most people, and org people especially, seek the path of least resistance.
And thank you FloorHump for confirming my posts are written well enough for OTHER people to comprehend them.
Yes rocket. Jump for joy that you have one person that thinks you have it right. Too bad he also puts words into my mouth and then wants to knock the straw man down.
Hey, I was just doing a sanity check. Clearly some people are able to comprehend my points as I convey them. So it's not me not communicating properly. The content, we can disagree on and I respect and support your right to do so.
I don’t know what “complaining” to a PO would accomplish. But I do know what giving honest feedback can lead to. In both my experience and that of a number of mongering friends with whom I have stayed in contact, feedback is received in a positive way.
I’ve both directly and indirectly seen cases where girls ads were taken down and never seen again or where they were given feedback/training (usually by being mentored by another girl) based on client feedback.
An essential component of that feedback is the number of clients who walk. If we don’t have the balls to give feedback or to walk, why waste time and effort using less effective means?
-- Modified on 9/24/2020 12:33:49 PM
How many times have you yourself walked? Did you leave a public review afterwards? Just wondering.
All your experience is purely anecdotal. Sure, so is mine. However, many mongers on this and other forums complain and vent in threads, saying they complained to the PO and see nothing happening to the girls ads.
I've seen my woat experience ever get a job at like four different orgs, many of which are respected. M even rehired her. Lol.
On other hand, you yourself claimed negative public reviews end girls careers.
So, which one is more effective at removing girls ads so they can never be seen again?
OK. So you’ve seen “many” mongers complain in threads and nothing has happened. And some have apparently even claimed to have complained to the PO. All of these claims have caused zero change according to your recollection.
On the other hand, I have had a different experience as described in my posts.
For some reason, it seems you only believe the reports that support your hypothesis. At least it’s all you write about. You completely disregard and even discredit the possibility that others have a different experience. Judging by the responses here, it’s more than a few others who have that different experience.
So, if you only want to believe those who support your hypothesis, what’s the point in giving you any feedback to your posts?
Hold on. I believe others experiences. I am a little bit skeptical given your background, and considering you history, in believing you in particular,
but I'm willing to consider other possibilities.
I need some evidence though.
Who were the girls that got complained about to bookers and gone quickly? Let's name some names.
Then let's name girls who, according to you, had careers cut short by negative public reviews.
Then we can compare and see which way was more effective. And I will then admit leaving feedback to bookers works sometimes. I have no problem saying names of girls and orgs,if you haven't noticed. Both in praising them or criticizing them.
Considering that you say misleading info such as no org threats clients with BL when he wants to walk, I will not take info from you at face value without evidence, sorry.
Finally, since you did not answer my question, is it correct to assume you walked zero times? If you did walk out once, maybe you can name the girl org and your experience, publicly? I want to trust you. Give me a good reason to.
Sure, “given my background”. What legitimate evidence do you have from my “background” that I will not tell you the truth? All you have is inference from the fact that I am disagreeing with you.
That said, you are continually posting arguments on here where you misread and misquote others. Look at the number of times responses to you have included some equivalent of “that’s not what I said”.
But I’m not interested in getting into a pissing contest with you.
You are free to believe whatever and whoever you wish. As you freely admit, thankfully, you have no hard data to support those beliefs. Neither do I. Not sure why you think it’s necessary to attack the credibility of anyone who disagrees with you. It’s just a monger board, dude. Relax.
I don't attack your credibility, at all. I said it's tough for me to trust you, but I will make an effort to hear your side. Just like you, probably.
All I asked for you is to provide evidence.
I asked you if you have walked yourself, ever. And if you did, from what girl. No answer from you. How can you tell someone to grow a pair and walk if you never were in such situation? And if you were, and have no issues in publicly naming a girl, why not name her? It's one thing to name pickle dodgers and another to name girls who were so bad that you had to walk, or condemn specific orgs for shitty behavior.
You have claimed that people need to grow a pair and walk. I then said they are scared to walk in fear of being BLd. You said there is no evidence that one will get bld. I said, there are many stories from mongers who were literally threatened by pos to be BLd.
If you are literally threatened by PO to be BLd if you walk, isn't it logical to have fear of walking? Please do answer.
Did I misquote anything here?
I have walked. But it was back in the 2012-2013 time frame, if I recall. Back then I used to see new girls that hadn’t been reviewed because I thought it might be fun. The fun wore off quickly. There’s no way I’m going to be able to remember their names. I’m terrible at remembering names and always have been.
I haven’t walked from a K-org since way back then. I’ve walked from multiple AMPs. But that doesn’t count here. And many of those girls change their names and rotate out of here so often that it would be meaningless, anyway.
I’ve walked from a couple of C-orgs. But again, C-orgs don’t count here.
Still, you don’t have to believe me. I always recommend a healthy dose of skepticism with everyone you meet virtually or otherwise in this community. Elsewhere you might hear “trust but verify”. In this community I would say that is not good advice.
“Listen but verify” is the best approach, in my opinion.
Believe whatever you wish. Trust whoever you wish.
For some reason, you seem very quick to trust mongers who tell you they’ve been blacklisted or threatened with blacklisting without verifying any details or backstory. Back when I worked with the admin on a couple of other boards and monger groups, I chased down a number of monger claims of bad behavior by the orgs. Only once was it justified. And those guys were really bad.
They would out mongers they didn’t like. But they aren’t around anymore. Some of you from the old big red community may remember those guys. If you were there, you’ll probably remember the guys who were taking pictures of cars in the parking lot of girls who had left their org and gone independent. But this wasn’t a K-org.
-- Modified on 9/24/2020 8:05:22 PM
-- Modified on 9/24/2020 8:08:22 PM
Well see, this was a much better response. I appreciate it. If you were responding like that in the first place, we would have a lot less qualms. I think we're getting somewhere here.
So you walked in 2013, presumably because the girl didn't meet your standards, and since then have never been let down? Considering how many girls don't fit the descriptions nowadays, that's pretty crazy. Maybe you had some good recommendations from the orgs. Clearly even some regulars been frustrated lately, and newbies always get screwed imo.
It seems quite convenient you forgot names, but no worries . You know what I notice quickly? People who can't bring themselves to criticize publicly girls or orgs also tend to not write "non-positive" (I hope this term works) reviews, and tend to take the side of girls or orgs moreso than not. They also tend to consider mongers as dumb/ugly/unworthy and tend to blame them for situations where they have no blame, like when they are lied to. Mongers are all bad and poor orgs have to defend precious girls from them. Ya'll laugh at me depicting orgs as evil, but that's what ya'll doing to mongers as a whole.
I trust most mongers reports because they have little to no incentive to lie. What do the mongers gain from lying about being yelled at by PO or threatened? I can name 220 reasons why orgs lie. I trust mongers who provide me with truthful information about girls, and when they tell me they were threatened by PO, I believe them. They have nothing to gain. On other hand, if orgs lie about pics, why would I ever trust them with anything?
BTW why do you say your fellow mongers? Are you not a fellow monger yourself? How did you chase down those claims? Through what connections? How did you verify anything? Other mongers or actual orgs? You aren't a regular fellow monger are you? Maybe a vip monger? Maybe a maudiver alias? So many questions, my dude.
Listen. There are bad mongers, no doubt. Robbers, thieves, scum who don't understand when girls say "no" or those who are rough with the girls. They aren't mongers, they are scum. Blacklist them to hell, put them on the hall of shame pic. Have nortenos roll up on them after a Niners game. Bodybag them, I don't care. They deserve it. Mongers who out other mongers? Even more scum and traitors. Never heard of this, but probably before my time.
But most mongers are not doing that. When a fellow brother shares info with me that is accurate 10 out of 10 times, I will trust him. When an org keeps putting up stolen and fake pics and employs fake review writing, why should I ever trust an org? Or org affiliate or their or manager or their booker?
When multiple people come out and all corroborate a threat story, it's telling. The probability of all of them being bad mongers is extremely small. Most mongers are just looking to fuck a good looking kgirl, after all.
C-orgs do count. I've heard some corg pos are extremely threatening, especially to new clients if they walk.
AMPs don't count,yeah. This is why a lot of people like them.. because even though they're buying the same pig in a poke they have an extremely easy option out. Walk-in amps, I mean. Not something like sunflower in San Rafael.
I pay the same prices everyone else does. I don’t see any girls who aren’t available to everyone. Well, except for the occasional UTR girl when one of my friends comes back in town. That’s very rare these days. But my two favorite UTR girls have retired anyway.
How did I verify facts with orgs, POs, kgirls and other mongers (“other mongers” meaning mongers who are not me)? When you are helping out as admin on a busy monger board you can get introduced to a lot of people. And, if you have a reputation for being a straight shooter with no agenda they even return messages. But that was a long time ago.
I really have no idea what you’re talking about when you use the term VIP monger. The only “status” I have is from the fact that I tend to book 2 hour sessions with girls I like and have been doing so since — well, a long time ago. And both the girls and the orgs respond positively to that. Though occasionally i am remembered favorably by people here and there who have been around a long time. But, like seeing my UTR girls, that is increasingly rare.
I have known Maui for a long time, yes. I enjoy keeping in touch with him and have nothing but respect for him. But I am not him.
I’ve had some good times in San Rafael. Good sex and surprisingly good sushi. I remember a pretty, high spirited Viet girl who tried to convince me that anal sex was really only fun because of the different poses the girl could get into. That was more fun than I expected.
Still, you are free to concoct conspiracy theories all you want. Heck, sometimes I’ll even join in. Everybody loves a good conspiracy theory..
-- Modified on 9/25/2020 12:31:10 AM
Obscure VIP system used by the orgs.
From what I have read on the past forums, there isn’t a lot of information posted on it publicly.
Suffice to say it will not affect most mongers
VIP mongers are people who get perks and enjoy special connections. They are people who see a lot of girls and enjoy special privileges. They might be invited to gatherings invoked by POs, org affiliates or orgs themselves. They might take out girls on their free time, host them in their house while apartments are finalized, driving them from and to airports and to send wire transfers back to Korea. And lots more.
You had special connections, oh I see. So you chose to trust those connections over mongers. I get it. At the end of the day, you chose to trust someone after all,despite of what you said about not trusting anyone. You just don't trust mongers. And I don't trust the people you trust. Boo hoo.
I had the unfortunate experience of "knowing" Maui online too. It ended up with him betraying my trust over a girl ad in a forum it had no place in. Funny, everything he asked me to not say to the public, I kept my mouth shut about . And I still won't disclose it. I honor my word. He also prs girls around and had a hand in misleading mongers. He's the last person I'd trust after our limited interaction, but I know you know him from way back, I also have some sources
and judging from affiliation, hence why I said I'm skeptical of your info. Anyone who care bares orgs and is an ad machine like Maui, is not to be trusted.
The more and more of vip mongers I meet, the more I'm disgusted. There are some exceptions, but the closer they get to the source, the more they care about girls and less about fellow mongers getting legit info. Some of them are essentially working for the org in return for perks. Some of them forgot the times when they were also noob mongers and are fine with fucking others over.
I don't know whether you are a vip monger or not. But clearly regular mongers don't have power of verifying monger complaints, and you had them. Regular monger schedules, goes in, fucks a girl and goes out and had little to no interaction with PO or org owners.
So, anyone who has ever had positive experiences interacting with the orgs must, because you believe they are 100% evil, be evil themselves? The need to demonize those with whom you disagree is not one that is considered a strong indicator of clear thinking or an open mind. It’s actually another fallacy. Please feel free to look it up.
Though I think we all have to admit that this particular fallacy is very popular these days. Particularly in politics. Voting against what some politician is proposing means you are supporting evil. Sadly, familiarity with this fallacy has poisoned the ability of many to think clearly.
Keeping an open mind is not an indicator of lack of credibility. Repeatedly using fallacies, however, is a pretty good indicator of such.
Now you're twisting my words. I said vip mongers, with some exceptions, tend to engage in things I find repulsive to the monger community. I never said those who like orgs must be evil or even engage in bad behavior. I talked about those who slowly start working for orgs, and those who start engaging in activitues such as shilling, advertising and fake review writing. As mongers become vip mongers they start enjoying the power of exclusivity and connections.
Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
You probably know indoorsport. His review of Tiana was a clear conflict of interest. Conflict of interest are other scumbag things vip mongers tend to engage in. They become invested with orgs and start helping them earn money, at expense of other mongers. You are dead to me as a monger if you do such a review and fail to state your conflict of interest. You are willingly misleading mongers.
Plenty of people like orgs, and I don't consider them untrustworthy. Gag is a trustworthy person (as far as I can tell) who likes orgs. We have had our differences with Twoon, but despite some shilling and questionable reviews, he does not engage in vile behavior. For most part.
My experience with Maui was hands-on. Just like a true vip monger, he chose some shitty girl ad over a mongers trust. Telling.
Just judging off your responses on who you trust, you clearly trust pos and orgs over mongers. Great. I'm the other way around. I have reasons to do that - nonvip mongers almost never lie to me. Orgs and pos lie all the time. Even if they don't lie to regulars and vip mongers, they lie to regular Joe's. That's enough for me to never invest my trust. Trust is hard to earn, but easy to lose. Regular mongers are looking for info and are willing to share info. Most vip mongers are seeking to get better deals for themselves.
Who do I demonize that I disagree with? Jensen? Nope, I respect him, even though I think a lot of his stances are anti-monger.
Maui? Like I've said, he stabbed me in the back not over a girl, but over a post of an ad of a girl of an org he was standing for at the time. In a forum that didn't belong. I'm sure you love people who stab you and betray you. He calso clearly chooses orgs and girls over mongers.
Cdl? Nope. He's not up there yet as a vip monger.
Who do I demonize?
It's easy to see who chooses girls and orgs over mongers. Real real easy. I don't demonize any of them just off that though. I just make a note. Because when time comes to choosing one side or the other, I know what side they will choose.
People who lie to me, people who betray me, people who lie knowing they will mislead newbies,all kinds of liars, shills, advertisers, non-mongers who write fake reviews, get a giant middle finger from me tho. All of these people hurt the game and my fellow monger community.
Finally. If you can claim demonize anyone, I can claim you demonize mongers. Is that how this works?
You are free to believe that there is some conspiracy that these alleged VIP mongers are in with the orgs. You seem convinced that I am or was a VIP monger because I said I talked to them when problems arose. That sounds like demonizing, dude. Talk to someone who you disagree with and you must be part of the problem? Really?
You have absolutely zero evidence that I am or was this fluid thing you call a VIP monger. Which sounds suspiciously like a label you use for mongers who criticize your stance.
As I’ve said, I start from the position that everybody lies. I don’t trust anyone until they earn it. You started off here with some good info. I’ve learned that there are some things in which you have some credibility. And that’s cool.
Then you go off on this campaign based on experience and information from another board(s) and members from places other than TER. And, while claiming you are not mongering ever since you showed up on TER, you further claim that all that experience must apply 1:1 to TER. This claim doesn’t make sense.
I get you don’t like misleading pictures. Nobody does. But I quit banging my head against that brick wall years ago. There are ways that many on here, including myself, have found that make those pictures nice but unnecessary things. It turns out they aren’t really as important as some, like you, make them out to be. Though that is less true for brand new girls (though going after FOTB girls has a whole set of challenges well beyond just pictures). But you seem to think that our lack of support for your campaign is implicit support for your enemy, the orgs. Of course, the second anyone says you do that, you deny it. Until the next time someone disagrees with you. Then you’re back to accusing them of being part of the conspiracy. Accusations based not on evidence. Solely on their lack of agreement with you.
Note the difference here. I have criticized your reasoning and your claims. I have avoided accusing you of anything other than being wrong. Not lying. Just wrong. But you can’t seem to do that. You have to add statements in that accuse others, including me, of being the enemy or on the side of the enemy. To disagree with you makes others who refuse to yield to your alleged greater cause liars and colluders. Yet another use of fallacy on your part. The ad hominem attack is an old chestnut that you seem very fond of.
-- Modified on 9/25/2020 5:26:49 PM
I did not say you are a vip monger. I have my suspicions, but like you've said, I have no evidence.
However, knowing certain people and being able to verify monger stories means you are close to org people, at least. Once again, regular mongers don't get involved in the biz side. That's my reasoning, but again, I have no evidence. I will admit it to you with no issues.
I already explained what vip mongers are. Those who get perks for being frequent customers and doing things for girls and orgs outside their appointment. Maybe friends of orgs or girls. People who lease or cosign the leases.
I don't accuse anyone of being a part of conspiracy. Again, I scream loud against particular instances of lying, which means misleading ads and fake reviews.
And yes I'm trying to show that it is a big deal, and you should condemn such practices. And I will continue to do so.
Everywhere else one hears that applied you think of a person who the organization would have little influence or control over but really wants to keep that person happy.
The usage here sounds much more like a "part timer", LOL
Bazzaar? Like a middle eastern market?
VIP clients are people who get preferential treatments based on their frequency. They get regular Joe's bumped off for their appointments.
Very often these vip clients start being closer and closer to orgs. They start attending booker parties, org owner parties, earn connections via networking, etc etc
Why don't you ask cdl? He's been on that road before. You think every regular Joe plays golf with POs and attends their parties?
they get to be the booker's lacky and run errands to they are the elite whose ass the bookers are kissing?
I don't know who is 'we', my definition was the same from day one.
VIP mongers are most of the time those who do big volumes or help out. Hence VIP - they get preferential treatment either via giving the org a lot of money by fucking lots of girls, or doing shit that directly benefits the org- administrative stuff, etc.
What I've observed, the closer such vip mongers get to orgs, the more lenient they become on 'misses', and the more they buy in , and the more they forget their fellow regular joes. They more they think they're special, the less info they will put up in public. They make connections with org members and bookers. Given that many org owners are really retired kgirls, it probably isn't very hard to make these connections if they were fucking these girls before and communicated with them before.
It becomes a spiral of "they wouldn't want to bite the hand that feeds them" kind of deal.
"They might take out girls on their free time, host them in their house while apartments are finalized, driving them from and to airports and to send wire transfers back to Korea. And lots more. "
Yes you started with the standard view of VIP clients in your original post and then moved to the above to complete that. OTC time has nothing to do with VIP status but about the relationship between the two people -- or are you claiming all these women are trafficked and controlled?
Being their drivers, providing temporary housing, performing financial transactions for them and "lots more" is not a VIP activity. That is wither working for the booker or provider or being their lackey. You're conflating two different classes of things in the same term.
As vip mongers build their connections to orgs, this often happens. I'm not sure what you want me to say here.
Sure, I will go and say that a lot of otc activity will happen on its own, like you say. But, many people who clamor the vip status will be offered some discounts for doing X. And yes, this is how many vip moggers end up essentially working for agencies without admitting it themselves. They just get paid in pussy.
"But, many people who clamor the vip status will be offered some discounts for doing X."
What does "clamor the vip status" mean? Are you talking about people who want to get in with the orgs and seek their favor by DOING things for the agency? If so you are again conflating two entire different things. Becoming an mouth piece, investor or lacky/part timer for an agency is not a VIP.
"And yes, this is how many vip moggers end up essentially working for agencies without admitting it themselves."
But more over, you are making some assertions about thing you cannot have much first hand information on without also being so connected. In other words, no in YOUR OWN WORDS, you are doing exactly what you accused useyrhead of when he talked about knowing some things. What is your inside knowledge here that justifies your claim? Or is that really just an inference and belief you are imposing on some things you see, but what you see is necessarily limited and incomplete.
It’s getting harder and harder to give this guy the benefit of the doubt. No sane person would believe all the stuff he claims to believe and also continually misread plain English in just the right way to confirm his own bias.
So, he’s either a refugee from some pro-monger cult and has been thoroughly brainwashed. Or he’s a troll using standard troll tactics. Though I have to take my hat off to him. I’ve never seen such a prolific troll who doesn’t live in his mother’s basement.
It's my inference, based on interaction with many of such mongers, on many different message boards and channels. I mean, cdl himself had a long post on how orgs approach vip mongers with different offers. He declined his offer of course.
I've seen the pr machines in work as well. Vip mongers constantly advertising orgs and girls on platforms like switter.
I'm not going to argue like this is a complete and fully informed definiton,though. It is a limited view and youre welcome to modify it if you disagree on something.
You asked, I answered. I don't claim my definition to be the ultimate truth or even a widely accepted term. It is the definition I use when talking about vip mongers.
Harpman and his clique were such vip mongers.
you start with some perks from the orgs like 15mins extra time or msog, early access to pics before the girl starts and approval to take the girl out for lunch or shopping etc. then you become their manbitch like pick up the girl, sign for apts, sign for driver licenses, wire money, ask to be married etc. its just some evil plan to get you by the balls.
personally, ive almost gotten screwed multple times: always getting asked to marry but no freebie bang sessions or limited to once a month, pick up the girls from the airport, take them to get pics, buy them jordan/addidas kicks etc. worse was when they wanted me to goto Ikea to get some shoe rack and curtain poles for the incall and wanted me to screw it on! wtf! get out of here!
vip designation is a scam. worthless like trying to date the girls.
I would never and have never played that game. The guys I knew who did got nothing but too much trouble for it. Though some of them didn’t believe that until they went to jail.
of the girl, not the org. I never knew an org that would SCHEDULE extra time for a so-called VIP monger. If the girl doesn't have a customer scheduled right after you, and SHE chooses to give you extra time, its a gift from HER, not the org.
Not surprised you had a bad experience dating Kgirls. Once you start being their go-fer, taxi service, and handyman, you have told them that your own time is not as valuable as theirs. I was dating one of the top LA girls on the outside four years ago. One day when she was off, I picked her up, took her to lunch downtown, and went back to her apartment and fucked for two hours OTC. When I got ready to leave, she asked me last minute if I would take her to the ATM a few miles away and then drop her back at her place. I told her I didn't have time and to ask one of the young Korean guys who like to spend OTC time with Kgirls being their taxi drivers. She texted me later, laughing, saying the first young 20-something guy she called, jumped at it. He not only took her to the bank ATM, he took her to the nail salon and waited outside in his car for over an hour while she got a manicure and pedicure. That's how you make yourself the servant rather than the master. Most guys make the mistake of thinking they are "lucky" seeing a Kgirl on the outside. I just make sure they know THEY are the lucky ones. Its a completely different dynamic than what you described.
Bad experience dating kgirls?
Cdl, stop making up shit. I don't date working kgirls. How could I have a bad experience if I never cared to try? I don't even get phone numbers/ kkt/whatever the fuck they use of my atfs. I don't need them (digits that is)
What part of I'm not interested in dating working kgirls don't you understand?
Or was this not addressed to me? Tree view is a bitch right now.
Fuck my bad it was not to me. My apologies. Tree view is frustrating.
at you, it was to my old buddy, Dance. No worries. Try to stay in tree mode unless the thread is running off the right side of the page. Then you have no choice but to go flat.
My go to booker has steered me away from a couple girls in the past due to subpar feedback from other clients. It's rare but it has happened. Sometimes the same booker also asks me for my feedback if I am one of the first clients for a particular girl.
I have gotten this kind of service from POs as well. It really does happen relatively often according to other mongers I know. Less often when they’re (the POs) very busy of course. Though I used to get these evening text messages from POs sometimes to give me a heads up. These days I’m mostly seeing girls I know well. So I’ve only had one of those text messages in the past 6 months.
-- Modified on 9/24/2020 7:16:34 PM
First off I don't patronize agencies of any kind that lie to me, and number two, just like CannedRavioli I have most definitely had bookers steer me away from girls on which they have gotten "bad feedback" from clients.
So YES, when I am unhappy I do let the booker know and the better ones try their best not to let it happen again.
Why can't there be a middle ground between "boycott all K-girls" and "suffer in silence"??? Can't some of you grasp the concept of simply voting with your wallet and supporting the good agencies while not only refusing to book with the bad ones, but letting them know EXACTLY why they have lost your business? Why is this such a tough concept for so many of you to grasp?
Read my response to you. If we consider posting fake pics as lying, every single agency out there has lied to me.
Your notion of good agencies and bad agencies is simply too polarized. This is ironic since you often claim that my world is black and white.
So your suggestion is then to not go to any agency at all?
Show me agencies that you claim haven't lied to you and one most likely will find fake pics or pics photoshopped so heavily that they might as well be fake.
Yuna, Kira, and a few others are using real, if a bit p-shopped, pics. Between those two, I can claim safe harbor from all the fakes. I mean, Kira and I are so tight that I'm surprised she doesn't keep my dick in the night stand drawer between visits.
One of my fellow mongers has a separate account for writing 'truth' reviews so he can complain without fear of getting BL'd. I choose not to go that route but instead only review girls who earn it and then write reviews that drive business to them...I hope. I also ask the girl's permission before writing a review. Some ask me to, some ask me not to, but none have ever asked me my handle or expressed interest in reading what I wrote about them. I also NEVER review YMMV treats. I like to think that they'd get wet in the panties if they read them, so I'm just a little bummed that they never ask. Maybe they know from what I write? I do write so that they would know it's me by the details, so maybe there's that?
Short answer: Play the game, you're gonna see an occasional milf or dead fish Passive response and encouragement to the RA's that play well are my strategies.
sag
Fake glams and YMMV kgirls
There is a very popular kgirl in the Bay Area who goes by the stage name 'ATF Mina'; she uses fake glams and most mongers who've sessioned with her would agree with me that she's HOTTER in person than her fake glams.
Also, I am of the opinion that many kgirls use fake glams to avoid LE entanglements with facial recognition software in use.
There was a kgirl who went by the stage name of 'Pixie'. She's a HOT spinner who delivered me an Academy Award winning performance for best actress back in 2018. Just so happens that a trusted monger bro sessioned with her the day before me and he had an AVOID session with her. It's a YMMV world my brothers and Rocketbro will affirm that most of my reviews are winners.
I always text the booker that I've passed the gate. I also always text the booker I'm out and thank you for my appointment. Just my style.
I like to have a full hour appointment. I had a session with a kgirl who goes by the stage name of 'Kandi'. At that time she was with GSC which is now LSC. Anyway, Kandi got me two times in 40 minutes and shooed me out the door. I texted booker to thank her for my appointment. Booker asks why did you leave early? I replied she got me two times and she said time to go. Booker replied good job on two times in 40 minutes and I'll make sure you get your full hour appointment in the future. And the booker kept her promise.
Big kgirls need love too! I generally like my kgirls slender but there's a kgirl who goes by the stage name of 'Ji Won'. Ji Won is a big kgirl but not fat. She is a zumba instructor, a fabulous and sexy dancer, and a 'water works' kgirl! YAHOO!!! Uh what's my point? No fat chicks. I draw the line at no fat chicks.
YMMV
-- Modified on 9/22/2020 12:50:57 PM
Sorry, can't corroborate your "all my reviews are winners" statement.
As far as Ji Won, a monger asked me about her recently - she goes by Tia at Dan's org. I told him I haven't seen her but she's a big girl, 120+.
He then saw her and said why didn't you tell me she's fat? I said Ive never seen her but asked to confirm that shes more of a defensive tackle build now than a linebacker. He said her midsection is fat. So yeah. Wanted you to know that.
His exact words were "she has a spare tire around her middle". So I'm warning others in the process.
My brother from another mother, Rocketbro
You just love to argue. I get it. I get you. I approve.
Ok, let's not have you affirm that most of my sessions are winners; how about you read my reviews back at ND and I'm generous with my scores?!
Ji Won = Tia, TER # 348905; haven't sessioned with her in over a year but I remember she takes good care of herself. She's also YMMV; if she likes ya, she'll rock your world!!!!
How about commenting on fake glams to avoid LE entanglements?
Rocketbro is all about service. Let him be.
-- Modified on 9/22/2020 2:33:33 PM
I'm pretty sure coconut was not a winner on the other site.
Ms Coconut is the meme kgirl. Just having some fun...
Ms Coconut is one of Mrs Alpaca's kgirls. In the span of one year, she amassed 994 reviews on ND.
You still sore about me pointing out to everyone on the forum that for every three sessions you have at least one of them is shitty?! And I think I have maybe 3 shitty sessions in 100?!? Maybe...
You still rubbing 'em out Rocketbro?! Wonderland is calling you...ring, ring, ring...
-- Modified on 9/22/2020 4:13:31 PM
-- Modified on 9/22/2020 4:18:41 PM
She had over a thousand reviews, most of them fake. And yours was one of them.
Why do you think I'm mad at you for anything? I'm not.
I merely commented on the part where you mentioned me, that I can't corroborate your point. Your reviews at the old site gave every girl a great score, even the girls whom you've admitted privately you didn't have a great experience with. You even bragged about it, didn't you? Saying something like "I didn't have a great experience with girl X and she didn't like me, but I still gave her a great score instead of not". Pepperidge farm remembers.
All threads at TER are communal. I tried to post yesterday about my kun Ji Won returning this upcoming week for her 2021 tour on a new shill Friday thread but it was rejected so I thought I'd search for old threads where I mentioned my kun Ji Won.
BINGO!
Big Kgirls Need Love Too
Magnetic. Electric. Magical. A good script, positive vibes and luck can have these effects for the FANTASY sexperience I chase. My kun Ji Won is a top tier kgirl.
She first appeared on the scene as stage name. Fuck I can't remember. Harmony TER ID #; no TER profile and reviews. Fast forward two years of tours later and my first session was in early 2018 when she appeared as Ji Won in E-ville. Or was it three years ago? My memory is failing me. Stalker. Name change from Harmony to Ji Won.
One of my fave scripts is playing tourist. Let me set the scene for ya. We're in Thailand and we're island hopping to Koi Larn. We're at s resort with a bungalow on a private but shared beach. I tell kun Ji Won 'lers go make love on the beach?' She replies 'the police will come for us.' I reply 'no worry. In the fantasy, the police don't come.' She smiles and nods and says 'me and my sister went to Phuket last year and she broke out her phone and shared her Thailand adventure with me. Her Tae Kwon Do is strong.
She's YMMV. I had nothing but repeat sessions with my kun Ji Won. A network monger brother had a session with her on a repeat where after he said he'd rather repeat with yuffie next time.
I wish you all good luck with this Adventures in Wonderland life we share. I'm gonna go check her out next week. I'll write a review.
-- Modified on 2/6/2021 6:23:09 PM
When twoon says big girls in this case, he means it.
Jiwon is around 140ish and has an amazon build.
Letting them know exactly why they lost your business in a PUBLIC review or a post on an active board, will have 100 times more the impact.
Depending on how many people read them.
VS letting one person (the PO) know about it.
And if you aren't a regular, they won't give a fuck. They will give many fucks if you communicate it to others publicly,no matter your status.
Orgs that balk at true reviews while thinking fake pics are OK, are special kind of hypocrites.
carry that much weight unless they are part of a trend. If a girl has 20 reviews and 17 are in the 7-9 range and 3 are 6 and below, this is chalked off to the YMMV aspect and that every Kgirl can't be everything to everyone. Even if one of the 3 says they would never go back because of the fake photos, but the 17 higher reviews say she looks better than the photos she's using, it will have zero effect and the reviewer just wasted his time complaining about the fake photos. If the girl has no photos, telling the booker you are mad about it will not get the real photos up any faster. The girl has to earn the money to pay for them first.
First, most orgs just use the girls old pics if she has them. Ideally, if orgs cared about their clients' experience, they'd reject them and not employ girls unless they have truer pics.
But orgs don't do that. You know why? Because they like green pieces of paper. Your friend Toungsten over at Jackson std forum, flat out said "it's a numbers game". We'll, I say fuck their numbers game.
And no, pretty sure you're wrong. Bad reviews certainly have shills and orgs scrambling to write positive reviews. People aren't stupid and, like I've said before, they do look at negative reviews. Do you think someone would take a generic, no-detail review over a micro-detailed non-positive review?,
a friend of Youngsten unless you want me to call you a friend of BLPOS. I have no opinion on which one is worse. LOL
It was tongue-in-cheek, cdl. Dont take it to heart 
BITOD I'd say I had a 90% success rate in k-girl pics matching the provider. That's dropped to about 30% (in an admittedly small sample size). But given that the other reviews of the inaccurate representations said "photos accurate" I just stopped using that agency. I may try others. Aside from the k-girls the pictures of other ladies I've seen have been 100% accurate.
Supply and demand. The orgs know the demand is higher so they can do pretty much what they want since dudes are afraid of being blacklisted so no choice.
Only dumps like South Dakota kgirl scene with no doubt where over the hill khohippos work would the dudes have all the power since demand is less so the orgs would be afraid of any neg reviews.
The choice is to report your experience PUBLICLY under a handle that cannot be associated with your monger persona. This way everyone who needs to win wins, and every one who needs to lose, loses.
Forum post, review post, and so on. The more you communicate your displeasure in a public place, the more attention you will draw.
The choice is always there. People just tend to be more concerned with their own self-interest than others' self-interest.
And some are too concerned with the girls' feelings (when the girl laughs at the simps straight to the bank), so they choose to fuck over fellow mongers instead. As Black Sheep would say, you could get with this or you can get with that. It's easy to see where the hearts of many mongers lie at.
its been tried since the beginning of the kdinosaurs. the orgs figure the dude out based on the reviews and with the help of the loyal kfanatic dudes who report on the reviewer. this one dude i knew got ratted on and one of the bookers chewed him out. only reason he wasn't banned cause he was vip. hell i tried the alter ego method. and during a session where i was chilling after she drained me of my love juice she asked if i was such such and such on ter. i freaked out sweating bullets.
end of the day its the power of the kpussy. it turns dudes into brainless fanatics and manbitch to the orgs and the girls.
-- Modified on 9/22/2020 9:23:46 PM
I have been accused of being all kinds of TER members, even YOU, once. I just tell them to keep guessing, they are wasting their time. However, never underestimate the power of the Kgirl network. I have walked into an incall with a new girl, and been told that (another Kgirl) told her about me, but not as CDL. They don't now me as that. I have also had other guys tell me that Kgirls often think THEY are CDL. One guy recently lost his Kgirlfriend over it. She thought he was CDL and seeing to or three girls a week instead of her because of my review history. All I could do was give him my condolences. CDL is who he is. Lol
It's hard for me to do, as I imagine this forum is low on their list of concerns.
I think it's possible, not maybe over the forum, but over some reviews or maybe some info you shared.
With that said, I will take freedom of speech over kgirl pussy. Kgirl pussy, even the sweetest, is replaceable. My balls aren't
I agree, I just think it's laughable to think a k-girl is going to remember or care about "CDL" or any other username 🤣
The top girls in LA have become very savvy in managing their brands. They read their reviews and they read this forum to see what, if anything, is said about them. They do the same with other forums that focus on SoCal Kgirls. I used to think like you, but five years ago, I got a PM on TER from a Kgirl. She didn't know whether or not I had seen her professionally, because CDL is completely anonymous, but she asked for my help with something that I referred to in one of my posts on this board. She told other girls that I helped her and I have had many others contact me with questions without any of them knowing who I am as a customer.
Touring girls may not care as much, but the permanent SoCal girls are on top of what is going on in the local Kgirl scene. They also read the reviews of their competition. When they have breaks between customers,, they log onto TER and see what the news of the day is. They know how to manage the flow of their reviews and work their customers accordingly to keep their name prominently on the TER list we search almost daily looking for potential Kgirls to see. Its a form of search optimization to manipulate search results. The tech guys will understand.
-- Modified on 10/1/2020 4:07:47 PM
This happens when you are a customer as well.
Back when my ATF and I were seeing each other, I was also seeing other girls, of course. Because I used my ATF as a reference (in retrospect maybe not the best move) some of the girls apparently talked to her and compared notes. The Kgirl community can sometimes feel like a small town. And my ATF, partly because of that temper I mentioned earlier, but also because she had gone fully independent and didn’t work for an org, was really well respected by most of the other girls.
Apparently, she told some of them that I helped her understand her reviews. As a result, I found the girls would deliberately leave time after their appointment with me to hang out and check out their reviews and forum comments with me. They would verify what things meant and whether the text, not just the score, was favorable to them. Basically acting as a translator. No identities had to be revealed. Just explaining slang, etc. Without someone they trusted to help them read the reviews they put a lot of weight on the numbers. The text reviews were a bit of a mystery to more than a few of them. And none of them ever knew my (then non-TER) handle.
I never volunteered to do this for them. It just started happening. Those were actually pretty interesting and fun experiences. And I thoroughly enjoyed the longer sessions. But, no, this did not make me what anyone calls a VIP monger. This was between the girls and me. The orgs had nothing to do with it.
-- Modified on 10/1/2020 9:39:49 PM
-- Modified on 10/1/2020 9:41:32 PM
I didn't realize reviews were so helpful to providers and mongers! All the more reason to post them rather than trading information solely by PM. As you mentioned, girls may be more willing to change their practices than orgs.
Yep.
Reviews are helpful to everyone who can read the reviews. Private messages are helpful only to 2 people participating in the private messaging.
I mean, it's not even close.
There is info that should not be posted and should only be discussed privately by PM. After you have been in the Kgirl scene for awhile you will get a sense of what is appropriate to post and what will cause problems for the girl and potentially for you.
There is info that should not be posted and should only be discussed privately by PM. After you have been in the Kgirl scene for awhile you will get a sense of what is appropriate to post and what will cause problems for the girl and potentially for you.
In addition to the acknowledged-by-pretty-much-everyone fact that there are a lot of reviews out there that don’t really provide much useful info. And even more that just don’t provide enough. So, unless the girl has a significant number of well written reviews you’re back to needing to rely on private messages.
Sure. And evaluation of a girl is surely NOT one of those things that should only be discussed privately.
Not on website that is literally created for that and makes majority of its money with that.
I could’ve sworn that the rules used to read that you couldn’t put info that belonged in a review in a forum post.
Has that changed? Or are you suggesting something else?
Also, let’s say you’ve got a relatively new TER member. One whose forum posts can take 4 to 7 hours to be approved. But he needs to pull the trigger on making an appointment sooner than that. Isn’t private messaging the only alternative open to him? This is far from an edge case. Many of us are still in moderation on the forums. And the need to pull the trigger on an appointment in a few hours - either for an appointment that day or the next - happens all the time. Mongering is frequently all about that impulse buy.
-- Modified on 10/3/2020 9:55:20 AM
Are you talking about mini-reviws versus the actual review?
You can write the mini as long as you submit the real review within 72 hours. The mini should not be the review you will submit but a greatly abbreviated summery. It is also for touring girls without many recent reviews and only by reviewer with at least 5 reviews.
Other than that I don't know of any restrictions on posting content that one might also put in a review -- but board posts are not reviews so context for what is being written probably matters a lot.
I’ve had a couple of posts not get approved because the content apparently “belongs in a review”. But that was a while ago.
I still don’t really understand the distinction for what they will or won’t allow in a forum post here. So thanks for the clarification.
A good rule of thumb is probably would I put this in the juicy details? If so, it really belongs in a review, not the public discussion area.
That would explain it. Thanks!
Sure. I do agree with you here. Pm is useful sometimes.
And I wholeheartedly agree with you about the blurred line between what is considered vip content and what isn't.
I had a post that warned mongers of a certain girl (she's mentioned in this thread) blocked. But then I've had evaluations of girls in-threads go completely unmoderated. So it seems fairly arbitrary.
With all that said, the post that you've replied to said
"and evaluation of a girl is surely NOT one of those things that should ONLY be discussed privately."
I put emphasis on the word "only" now. There are certain things that I will never post on here that I will post in pms. Evaluation of whether or not girl is abd or good is never one of those things.
No argument there.
With the exception of a few, it appears as though touring girls aren't likely to care about the forum.
Given that a lot of the touring girls here come from LA (or used to be based there and relocated for various reasons) I suspect they do still care. It seems to be the case that those who don't get reviews or get a bit panned go pretty quickly.
I've never gotten into reading reviews but some of the touring girls from the past that came though 4-6 times a years that I saw regularly then were definitely aware of the reviews and TER.
I would agree, when travel was actually possible for everyone, the 90 wonders that toured the major markets and then went back to Korea might not have really cared much -- or just not been aware. Even there, a number would hit the US two or three times a year touring under the same name.
It seems to me that the girls I see now are a good bit more savvy about this stuff (reviews and forum comments) than they were back in say, 2015 and before.
What do you think?
After TER went dark in the spring of 2018. Many girls who were oblivious to the fact that reviews are what drive customers to see the girls (the bookers were already well aware of this for years) and only paid attention to theirs and their competition's ads on CV, started following their reviews on USA and EM. When TER came back and reviews started up again here, many more got serious about managing their brand. 5 years ago, it was rare for me to have a new girl come right out and ASK me for a review after a session, but now its happening more often. I have to believe they are doing the same thing with other customers that they are confident had a good time. (They also seem to know if you didn't have a good time, so they won't mention a review in those cases. - Lol) So I think its safe to say that disappearance and then re-emergence of TER is what caused reviews to start getting their attention.
Of course, this has also led to a lot of high blood pressure and anxiety for some of the girls who obsess over every review. They get one bad review and they think the sky is falling. Lol
there are no Kgirls in South Dakota. They are native American girls trying to pass for tanned Kgirls. There's no H-Mart, so that means no Kgirls. Lol
And be nice, they are not hippos, they are "curvy". Its just that all the curves are outward. Lol
and one kmonster few years back. forgot her name but had a gut bulging out like some Alien was gestating in there about to burst.
I believe this is actually more due to facial recognition technology being utilized by the Feds. I think the Agencies would much rather just photoshop/enhance/whatever some glamour shots of the girl and be done with it, it would be a lot easier for them that way. Instead they have to go out of their way to find pictures of a totally different person that look close enough to the actual girl. Much more difficult. Interested to know others thoughts on this.
Easy solution- blur the face but keep the body. As is, most org pics have bodies that are PSd too, and most of the time are not representative of real bodies.
By the way, this was a thread about a disappointing trend, and the op was made by a guy is in socal, and who has 150 reviews, primarily in socal.
The thread wasn't about me. These are people not named me who getting frustrated at the tactics and quality. Yet we are to believe that these things are unimportant, by many on here. Pause for a second and put aside me being an insufferable asshole. Ask yourself, are these people exaggerating shit, or is the problem real and causing people to think twice before taking a plunge?
We start a chain that talks about the pictures that most accurately depict the kgirl...? Hopefully it is seen and affects change for the orgs.
Well that might start helping steering people too the better agencies or girls. That might influence where the money goes.