Next time I'm in SF proper and in a drug store, I see a bummy looking guy not shoplift, I'll say here's how it should be done but unfortunately he's an exception.
To quote Chris Rock again, "I ain't never been to jail' what you want a cookie? '"
"But when given the opportunity to say "Yeah, that is how it should be done but unfortunately is an exception." you cannot even do that." Ive given an org props for posting real videos before. On this very site.
I just dont see why I should commend someone for doing something you're supposed to do in the first place. And when I decline to do that you accuse me of being negative. I will always be a glass half empty type of guy.
Yes, it's obviously a good thing for consumers that real pics are used. But this shouldn't be celebrated. This should be the norm. This doesn't mean it shouldn't be shared. I never said you are wrong for posting it or anything. It's a good thing you shared this, I would also share it in the dc forum if I were you.
Hope we're on the same page here. Not looking to start an argument.
So here's something to be happy with.
Many pics (and the trend did get worse post covid) are unrepresentative. At least one (but certainly I have seen a number of others in the past year that were also good and not misleading) here is doing well. See Gem's photo on KstarNova and if you see the actually lady you will see these are her and not overly cleaned up (just what you would have done for a family portrait or passport photo).
Anyone else have some examples to toss out?
I mean, yes it's great that what you see is what you get and not a completely different person.
But should we really be "happy" about it? Isn't there some obligation from seller to truthfully represent the product or service they are selling? That's just doing what you're supposed to as a seller and not deceiving.
Whats that Chris Rock line about wanting credit for shit you're supposed to do?
"'I take care of my kids'. Youre supposed to!"
Considering the industry we're talking about, it's understandable ladies wanting to keep their identity a secret. Just like us clients who wouldn't want our names and faces known publicly.
That said, 100% agree it's a shame when photos are way off mark. If photos are close I don't mind. Or, just blur the face a bit. Use real photos. That way we get the actual body and a similar face at the door.
Has been a practice since I started with Kgirls in 2008. Besides, there is not much difference in faces when my dick is balls-deep in her throat and she has a tear trailing mascara running down their cheek, because she went too deep. (I never push during BBBJ, I let them determine how much they want to take. That way, any tears are on them.)
However, the more recent practice of reshaping bodies is particularly annoying to me because body type is more important to me than the face. I have never met a Kgirl whose face was so ugly I couldn't fuck her, but there are Kgirls whose photos were so far off their really body types that I called the booker and told him/her I was leaving because her body was not the same as the pictures and I don't find her attractive enough to have sex with. I tell the booker I'm leaving her $100 anyway and will try someone else, but I expect him to give me a head's up if she's nothing like the photos, or I won't see anymore of his/her girls. I've done this with a few different bookers and it seems to solve the problem.
This is even worse than rewarding someone for shit they're supposed to do.
You're rewarding them for misleading you.
Yoohoo Jensen, where are you to ask why cdl is doing this?
Here's a question. Have you actually EVER written a review or publicly mentioned this body discrepancy anywhere on forums with mentioning the girl name ? Besides Betty - obviously she isn't a kgirl.
Like your story right now why not drop some names? Who were these girls whose body looked so off you walked? Wouldn't fellow mongers want to know?
read it again, it was the girl. Never underestimate the power of the Kgirl network. There are two versions she can tell to other Kgirls . . . . 1) He took one look at me, said I wasn't his type, and turned around and walked out. He was a bit of a jerk, or 2) He said my photos were overshopped and not consistent how I look in person, so he gave me $100, said this is for my trouble, but he's not interested in continuing the session. Nice guy, but said we weren't a match due to the fake photos.
I cut my losses down to $100 and leave no ill will behind. Reputation of a customer is important, and don't think for a minute that Kgirls don't compare notes about well-known high-volume customers. I had a very well-known Kgirl that when I saw her for the first time, she was sedate at first, we chatted a few minutes and when the action started, I did a certain foreplay move and she stopped suddenly and started jumping up and down, and yelling, "I know who you are, I know who you are" threw her arms around my neck and pressed her naked body against mine, repeating, "Thank you for seeing me" two or three times. I was taken aback, but then she explained that several "sisters" she goes out with on their days off have been taking me up with a lot of positive details. It was one of the best first meetings I have had with a Kgirl.
If it were you, since Kgirls talk about us behind our backs, which version of me not going through with this session would you prefer to have floating around the Kgirl scene in SoCal? It's like there was a spill on aisle 3, and I cleaned it up for $100.00, and didn't have to fuck a girl that was not my type just because I was already there when I realized it.
Of course. Once again, if you walked why wouldn't other fellow monger want to know who you have walked on to perhaps avoid or adjust expectations?
Drop some names. Help some fellow mongers. Who did you walk on?
As far for your post, well. The girl (or booker) misrepresented her appearance. If you walking without giving any money makes you a jerk, but walking and giving her 100 makes you a nice guy... what does that make her? Rhetorical question.
"If it were you"
Listen man, if I gave a flying shit about what peoples perception of me is, I wouldn't write anything that I write on here. Everything and anything I write on here is for public consumption. And I want the bookers or kgirls to read it.
I've said it before asshole. JoyfulBay. I don't recommend anyone use the agency but some still seem to think it's worth paying them. That's they business. In my experience one good session, one meh session and 4 or 5 bad sessions -- with sessions referring to both the actual time spend with the girl and the ad presentation of what I would be getting. I would add that the ability to keep to the schedule is also a well known (based on what others say, but also something I experienced as well) and leave you waiting 10 or 15 min past the appointment time is annoying.
Sorry you cannot recall that I've said this before for several years now.
But the thread was about noting that much is in fact good and we should make note of the exceptional cases. Particularly when so many want to say that type of behavior is what we should expect as the norm but are seeing something less.
Used to be I could stop into the forum and have some anticipation for the fun I will have in my next session. These days wasting my time in the arguments and complaints about that some ideal is not met is so depressing I don't even feel like seeing the many good escorts that do come to the area. Sad. But if you're going to be representative of the BA I get why it's so fucked up there. Smart thing to do is stop having anything to do with you. Seems like the board has gone down hill as well. Nothing good can be said here, only bad.
Well, that's fine I do well with many agencies here and don't need discussion with assholes who only want to see the negative. Rather associate with those that can see positives as well as negatives and not always wanting to argue everything
TFATT
He's the one who said it was "annoying" of their body misrepresentation, not me (I have done it before and him and you attacked me back then, but now he's annoyed lol)
But I'm glad you're here calling me names when I did nothing of the sort to you.
"Nothing good can be said here, only bad."
Nonsense. Bad or good can be said on here.
I'm sorry you feel that this ghost forum being more negative impacts your joy in actually seeing girls. It hasn't really been the case for me.
I have made several non-negative threads over last few months on here :
The service girl Renaissance thread
The how do non-kgirls get along thread
SM bust thread
Boston trials thread
All of these did not have any "bad" connotation attached to them.
I'm not some troll who only sees the bad things in life. At least I don't think I am.
Arguing is fun for me, and I always admit as much.
If you had posted about this girl who was a good lay and used real pics without mentioning "oh derp the negativity" I wouldn't even post anything. But you had to call me out and of course, I'm easy to bait and respond. It is my fault to a degree, yes. I'm sorry.
If we look at fast food and how they don't look like the pictures, then discover one place that switched to using real photos, we'd point it out. It's a legitimate selling point that you get what you see. But if you came on a forum and said you were glad a shop did this and other people bashed you for praising what everyone should do, it comes off as wildly hostile of course.
It's true this thread is not fun and not positivity. Don't come here for that. I even passed the crown of biggest troll from CDL to a newcomer, it took over a decade so that is quite an amazing feat. He is like a slightly worse version of CDL. Usually.
I simply asked whether we should celebrate something that is supposed to be done.
But I guess bashing = being argumentative or questioning someone nowadays.
Just like with reviews. Low score =bashing. Sigh.
Edit: something I remembered. Kyle Shanahan on how he buys houses:
"I always compare it to how I buy houses. When my wife would bring me to a house she loves, I go through the house and point out every single thing that's wrong with it. Usually, by the end of it, she's in tears and she's apologizing to the realtor for how offensive I've been, and then I come out and they're out there and they're like, 'What do you think?' and I'm like, 'Oh I like this one, let's get this,' and they're like, 'What the hell are you talking about?'"
-- Modified on 7/2/2025 5:11:47 PM
-- Modified on 7/2/2025 5:24:05 PM
You found the elusive "Photo Accurate", So this is what its come down too?
Man, I could...but I won't
But expected from the ones that respond. Don't know why they bother living.
So don't let me...pls
LOL
You sure as hell are in no position to do that as you don't even have a clue as to what the point of the post was. Go play in your own sandbox so you don't get your face shoved in the sand here where you're clueless.
Relax, man. It ain't that serious. Kgirls are still good in general.
Thanks for the rec if that was one. I hear service queen Kira is in your neck of the woods cureently. If anyone wants to be aggressively attacked (in a good way), highly recommended.
Even if right now we have a crazy service drought in the bay, I'm thinking it's cyclical. Just half a year ago all my faves were in town and a certain spa was poppin.
You still miss the point.
You complain about lots of behaviors here but that has not changed anything. You recommend girls that actually do what you claim to abhor. Yet here is a lady that is great service and doesn't play that game of lying about age (not listed, but the pic are her so everyone can easily make up their minds) or heavily edit the pics (in this case the face isn't even blurred).
But when given the opportunity to say "Yeah, that is how it should be done but unfortunately is an exception." you cannot even do that.
But, I'd also note that this Gem actually is not the only one here. Probably 4 of the girls I've seen since I got back, last part of May, I could say something similar about. It's just this case is at the top (and what things used to be here so what one could say was "expected")
The suggestion that other might post similar finding is not about the girls per se but about letting other guys here know about a good thing. I just don't get why some want to argue against that type of sharing.
Next time I'm in SF proper and in a drug store, I see a bummy looking guy not shoplift, I'll say here's how it should be done but unfortunately he's an exception.
To quote Chris Rock again, "I ain't never been to jail' what you want a cookie? '"
"But when given the opportunity to say "Yeah, that is how it should be done but unfortunately is an exception." you cannot even do that."
Ive given an org props for posting real videos before. On this very site.
I just dont see why I should commend someone for doing something you're supposed to do in the first place. And when I decline to do that you accuse me of being negative. I will always be a glass half empty type of guy.
Yes, it's obviously a good thing for consumers that real pics are used. But this shouldn't be celebrated. This should be the norm.
This doesn't mean it shouldn't be shared. I never said you are wrong for posting it or anything. It's a good thing you shared this, I would also share it in the dc forum if I were you.
Hope we're on the same page here. Not looking to start an argument.
Sure, the ideal would be as you say, but then we have the real world that is. Should people set their expectations and base their actions on their expectation about an ideal behavior or how people (or in this case the market behavior) actually act?
I would suggest the latter is more rational and much safer for both not being disappointed or wasting money. So if the current ad equilibrium is misleading pics and ads, and no one ever acknowledges those that do try to be more in line with the ideal what happens? Well, it cost in terms of both money and overall effort. So why should any then bother if they get no credit for doing the the better way?
I suppose if you dropped $500 bucks on the ground and didn't realize it but someone came up to you and said "Here, I noticed you dropped this." you'd just take it and blow the person off in terms of any genuine gratitude, right. I meant that is what someone is supposed to do, right? Doesn't mater that a lot of people would probably look around to see if anyone else notices and then put it in their pocket thinking they got lucky.
And that is one of the cores of our long running differences in view. I think it's good to reward good behavior even when that is the "expected" (though often done) behavior and think it's better to let trivial transgressions go. Calling out pics of a different person or pics from 10 years ago or overly photoshopped to make the girl look 20 lbs less and 20 years younger. Sure, and you get the in reviews (even if not in the profile). But, if people just stopped paying for things they don't like -- such as continuing to hand over their money (and I'm talking about you rocket as you call the agencies out all the time but then say it doesn't matter to you as long as service is good so you happily support their deception) -- and spend time promoting the cases where the behavior was good we'd see a better market setting in my opinion.
At least we'd see some tiers with good and bad agencies -- with the good agencies being hard to get into and selective about both their regular customers and the escorts they work with and the lower tier ones catering to those the many random guys who are likely never to come back again anyhow. I think your approach only incentivizes the race to the bottom.
"Should people set their expectations and base their actions on their expectation about an ideal behavior or how people (or in this case the market behavior) actually act?"
Well, then what qualms do you have with my analogy of retail theft? Retail theft has been running rampant in San Francisco. That's the reality. Are we supposed to thank every shady guy who doesn't shoplift? Give him a star?
Should we give props for people who don't commit crimes in high crime areas? Hey here have a consideration for not sexually assaulting someone....yikes
"suppose if you dropped $500 bucks on the ground and didn't realize it but someone came up to you and said "Here, I noticed you dropped this." you'd just take it and blow the person off in terms of any genuine gratitude, right"
That is a bad analogy though . The person actually doesn't have to do anything here. I don't get how you don't understand the obligation that seller has before a buyer to not do false advertising. It's not a favor. These people arent doing us a favor for letting us fuck them.... that's not how it works. They are selling services for our hard earned $. Do you thank the car salesman for being honest? I don't know man, it doesn't make any sense to me
"and I'm talking about you rocket as you call the agencies out all the time but then say it doesn't matter to you as long as service is good so you happily support their deception)"
That's not what I say? I just say I evaluate girls in context of how they perform. If a girl is a service queen I evaluate how she is in bed. And if people are OK with fake pics as long as she is a freak in the sheets, then who am I to judge? Am I supposed to say to a service lover to not give them money because they use fake pics and are older and fatter, but fuck like a banshee? Why? Just lay it out for them to know the facts and have them make the decision.
The goal imo is to provide fellow mongers with as much truthful info as possible and then have them make a decision. Not make a decision for them. I've seen some shitty b&s agencies have great girls occasionally. How do you reconcile this? I don't know how to.
"and spend time promoting the cases where the behavior was good we'd see a better market setting in my opinion.
"
I have to disagree here. The main reason kgirls and escorts in general do fake pics is to simply look a lot better than they actually are.
The girl in your post looks good. Most girls who use real pics look good. It's not just a coincidence.
I don't see the leap here that if we "reward" girls who do post real pics, then others will follow suit. Because others can't magically become twenty years younger or suddenly look like a Korean beauty standard bearer or shed ton of weight (altho Ozempic does wonders).
And it actually takes more effort to actually doctor pics ( or look for a great shot where imperfections are hidden.) than to not doctor them.
"
At least we'd see some tiers with good and bad agencies -- with the good agencies being hard to get into and selective about both their regular customers and the escorts they work with and the lower tier ones catering to those the many random guys who are likely never to come back again anyhow. I think your approach only incentivizes the race to the bottom."
This is just exclusivity? I've seen an exclusive agency our way go up in flames. They have been great to me. But shitty to others. And ever since they went up in flames I still see people proverbially spit on their grave, simply because they couldn't get in. People are spiteful.
Im not a fan of exclusivity and tiered approach. And imo the whole repeat customers vs one off is very girl dependent.
Once again, I hope you do read this. I'm explicitly trying to have more tact here than usual and seeing if it works or not.
positive reinforcement is a good thing, even if it is for something that should be the norm
By giving positive reinforcement for every little thing that is the norm, one devalues the "reward" and also conditions the person to think they should be rewarded for every little thing they do.
You're not wrong that there could be devaluation. But I would argue that the norm is using photoshopped or fake pictures. So giving positive reinforcement for not using photoshop/fake pictures is actually giving value and help push these agencies to what should be the norm.
Yes I do show appreciation to those that do things well and right; particularly when others in the field don't.
There is nothing exclusive about those who repeat and those that are the one and done type.
Since there is no more reason for a person not to keep your dropped money than there is for those selling something in order to get your hard earned money to use whatever ad get their goal accomplished I don't see where you think it fails.
Interestingly I just saw a girl who's looked better in person than in the pics. I also see cases where guys are happy some girl is "curvy" even though the pics and ad were done to make them look much thinner. If everyone started complementing those who posted the honest (even if still made to look good as one might expect from an ad in any industry) ads and stopped making the excuse "but they occasionally have good escorts" and keep funding the bad apples maybe things will be better. I will just note that in the, 5 or 6 weeks I've been back I've only seen one girl whose ads I would say were not representative. I did call out Gem's at KSN, and will add Rosie at AG as both being exceptional examples and deserving of being publicly noted. I see no reason why those that like other body type or faces or whatever doing the same would not help create the incentives for those not being more honest to give it a try.
The simply reality is that publicly informing everyone on TER (or whatever site you might be on) about might help a few to go elsewhere, if they believe you, but if the model is customer churn then it doesn't matter to the seller. But if you say those things, and then go back and give your money to that seller again you've just validated their model. If everyone stopped doing that the message would be different -- some will still be lying opportunists but some, if they are also seeing the positive reinforcement, will start thinking profit maximization will occur under a more truthful model of advertising.
I didn't have any big problem with your bum not shoplifting. The store owner/manager/employee seeing some street bum come in and then come up to the counter and pay for what they picked up should perhaps give that person positive acknowledgement. In general, though, you would not know if the bum stole something or not so saying thanks would be kind of random, where as here we're talking about specific cases. Plus there is a difference between someone who perhaps doesn't know when the next meal is coming and what we're talking about. So on those points I think it's a bad example to pull out here.
on command by rewarding him with treats will slowly stop being so obedient if the treats stop. Provider tips are much the same in my experience.
If you go in knowing that photoshopping is the norm, then you just add 10 years and 10 pounds to your expectations, you will probably be disappointed less often.
The point was about acknowledging and pointing out when people ARE already doing the right thing rather than merely taking that for granted.
seen in the last few weeks, and reviewed, Vivian/Viviana, Jenny, and Mimi K all used their pics.
They used minimal PS'ing and glammed up some, so I hope that doesn't disqualify them from what you're asking.
I am talking about the new Viviana pics, not her old ones as Vivian.
She even has a 10 second video now too.
No, I certainly expect some level of brushing up the pics, which is what the bit about a family portrait pic was about. No one is going to hang a formal family picture on the wall if the photographer didn't clean everyone's looks up a bit. Plus, quite often the girl will make an effort with putting makeup and having their hair well arranged. (Hell, women do that just to go to work or sometimes just to go out for the night with their friends but doesn't cause issues for most guys.)
If I could have recalled their names I could have added a two or three more (and that is just of those I've seen since lat May when I got back to the area).
Thanks for the post and hopefully a bit of a pointer for other guys in your area that might want to check those 3 out.