...when he says: "...competing agencies would have no power to remove reviews that are the property of TER, only TER can remove them..." What a simplistic, misleading load of bullshit!
Yes, the reviews are the "property of TER" but that doesn't mean that reviews cannot be removed. ANYONE, not just the girl who is the subject of the review, can file a Problem Report or use "Contact Us" to point out the deficiencies in a review and get TER to remove the review. Even "competing agencies doing dirty tricks" can report reviews to TER and get the reviews of competing agency girls removed. It's a high bar to get reviews removed because reviews are the lifeblood of TER, but it can be done. CDL is an idiot.
http://i.imgur.com/8cdjMrN_d.webp?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium
Saw this elsewhere. Open advertisement of monetary incentive if you give proof of good reviews.
This agency is not the only one doing this, I've seen this advertised at CLL login before. Now, this is clearly against TER ToS.
So let us have a conversation here.
1. What do we think of this behavior?
2. What should TER do? Remove the profiles? Remove reviews? Both? Give them a warning? Nothing?
This kind of behavior is obviously against EVERYONE"s interest here, so I would hope at least that it would be universally condemned, but there are all kind of people on this board, lets just see if anyone here tries to defend the indefensible.
This isn't a difficult question. If the agency has a profile on TER it goes; just like if any individual provider was shown to be doing this.
I was not able to find one, and a quick search of NY reviews of Asian and Asian Agency providers didn't come up with anything that looked like the agency mentioned. If they are not here no need to do anything.
If anyone can show a review that is from that agency then I think two things.
1) While such an ad exists -- and for some period of time once removed -- no reviews from any of its providers will be allowed on TER.
2) If it can be shown (much more unlikely) that the reviewer was playing along with the agency to get the $40, review is gone too.
Last comment. With the info provided one might how those searching the reviews in NY regularly might keep their eyes open. As such posting to the NY board might also be helpful.
If you go to their page, they have two phone numbers
917-622-9836 and 347-925-3412
There are a lot of providers under this number on TER
Now two things that I need to mention.
1.it doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things, but this isn't a kgirl agency per se. They have lot of Asian girls but most are listed as Japanese or Chinese. Now, my experience says most Japanese working girls are actually Chinese or Korean. But anyway. Just wanted to point that out
2. The screenshot is from the vip portion of the site. The screenshot isn't mine and for example I won't be able to provide concrete proof. As this was posted elsewhere a week or two ago, likely they took it down anyway even for vips (for the unlikely event I may obtain the password).
Well the best you can do is:
1) report it to TER with the information you have and see if they will do something based on that.
2) Let the NY board know as they probably have some people who perhaps can produce some evidence TER could act on.
The only thing I saw was the link you posted which doesn't lead to anything other than that snapshot. Looking at reviews with the first number also get hits for other sites. Not sure what TER would do with those.
So did you just post here or did you take the situation to TER? Or was your post also trying to figure out what you should do?
I didn't contact TER. Yeah I wanted to see what people think and how much of a case I have with just this screenshot, which is not a lot of evidence in itself. You know me, I want discussion.
The other thing is, seeing how cll profiles were removed along with all their reviews, I wonder how many of these wsd reviews are legit and if they are removed altogether how much this will hurt prospective clients. But that's more of a my issue, lol. TER is pretty unambiguous about the situation.
I'll see what I can dig up on this agency and see if I have a case along with this screenshot. Maybe I will contact the guy who posted it initially if he's not banned, at the other place.
But yeah, purpose was to get some discussion on this. Maybe we can get some folks from NYC to chime in.
Regardless of what mongers think of this behavior, TER will do NOTHING about it. You wanna know why?
Because as I've said before, K-mongers don't give a shit about TER. Their loyalties are first and foremost to the K-girls, the bookers and the orgs.
TER doesn't go around policing all the websites of all the providers. In order to for TER to DO something, a rules violation must first be brought to their attention. K-mongers wouldn't report such a violation. Why would they? They don't report re-branding or any other discrepancies in K-girl profiles.
GaG's post says this kind of behavior is "indefensible" and should be "universally condemned." Words are cheap - do you think GaG would lift a finger to report this to TER? No fuckin' way!! GaG hates and resents TER, so much so that he was heavily involved in starting a competitor review site to TER. How'd that work out GaG?
K-mongers wouldn't report it either. All they would see was $$$$$$$$$$.
I'm not entirely sure that this is a kgirl agency. What you say about GaG is surprising, but I don't think it has much to do with this topic.
I guess the question I have for you is if the screenshot is enough to report.
because he doesn't know the back story, so I'll answer your question. I don't think the screen shot is enough, because TER's remedy is to remove the review(s), and they can't do that without knowing which individual girls were involved. A link that takes them to this incriminating page and then lets the mods go on to see which girls are involved in this would probably be enough.
I know for a fact that some reviews have been taken down because of CLL's participation in a quid pro quo review scam like you note in your OP. Some of the CLL girls have PM'd me here at TER over the weekend, and told me some (or in a few cases, all) of their reviews have disappeared and they don't know why. I told them already it was the fault of the agency policy, not their own, and that there was nothing I could do to help them other than to tell them not to work for outfits with a compensated review policy for customers. Its a violation of TER rules. The girls thought it was competing agencies doing dirty tricks. I told them competing agencies would have no power to remove reviews that are the property of TER, only TER can remove them, and they usually only do that due to rules violations, or a challenge from the girl who is the subject of the review. Since none of these girls ASKED for them to be removed, the fault lies with the agency review policy, IMO. Good topic, Rocket.
...when he says: "...competing agencies would have no power to remove reviews that are the property of TER, only TER can remove them..." What a simplistic, misleading load of bullshit!
Yes, the reviews are the "property of TER" but that doesn't mean that reviews cannot be removed. ANYONE, not just the girl who is the subject of the review, can file a Problem Report or use "Contact Us" to point out the deficiencies in a review and get TER to remove the review. Even "competing agencies doing dirty tricks" can report reviews to TER and get the reviews of competing agency girls removed. It's a high bar to get reviews removed because reviews are the lifeblood of TER, but it can be done. CDL is an idiot.
this one, and I already regret it, but you are once again giving an example that is not in the context of what is happening in the Kgirl scene. You are just lying now. You said, anyone can "point out a deficiency and . . . . get TER to remove a review," like its an everyday occurance. Pointing out a deficiency will seldom get a review removed, it will more likely get the score adjusted, but the review will remain. Reporting a Rules Violation requires extrinsic evidence like I described in my post, something you failed to mention. Reporting reviews does NOT automatically get reviews removed, which you ultimately CONCEDE at the end where you say . . . ."It's a high bar to get reviews removed because reviews are the lifeblood of TER." Getting a review removed though a problem report is the exception, not the rule, which you seem to know, but choose to ignore, because it doesn't fit your obsession with me. Once again, you prove why you are the most dishonest poster on TER, not to mention the LEAST knowledgeable about Kgirls. Why are you even here other than to make a fool of yourself?
This is the problem when you have such a limited personal experience with reviews, coupled with so few Providers that will even talk to you, and then you try to lecture others on how review policy works. You might as well be the featured speaker at an astronauts convention. You would have just as much cred there as you do here. You are a wannabe, and not a very bright one at that. Go ahead and have the last word, its what you live for. I'm putting you back on ignore. What you just experienced was a bitch-slapping, just so you know.
Most K-mongers don't know, but that line is always used by "followme", the weakest poster on the Politics board. Lefties and righties agree on NOTHING on P&R, but one thing they agree on is that followme is a ridiculous loser.
So what does CDL do? He steals that line from followme. That makes CDL an even bigger loser than followme.
The second most reviled poster on P&R is "Laffy." Laffy pretends he has people on "Ignore" yet he reads and responds to the posts of those he is ignoring. That's exactly what CDL does with my posts so he is as stupid as Laffy.
Laffy and followme - only a supreme loser like CDL would emulate those two.
What CDL just experienced was a bitch-slapping, just so you know. ROFLMAO! CDL thinks if he says it, that makes it true. What a maroon!
Hmm, one thing Ive noticed is that cll stopped being password protected a couple of weeks ago, which kinda coincides with your pms timeline.
Cll had password protection for nearly a year and changed the password last not too long ago.
Sounds too much of a coincidence otherwise.
I think it was the CLL PO who contacted you to probe if you know why TER has removed all cll reviews. Perhaps they think that removing pwd protection will get their reviews back. Or maybe you told them that - did you?
All you want. It was several touring Kgirls who work there from time to time and I did tell them what to tell the agency about the review problems and how it might be fixed so they could get reviews in the future, and if the agency would not make some changes, I said they should work somewhere else. That threat of a mass walkout is probably what got the agency's attention. One WAS the password protection. The other was offering discounts for reviews. I also said they would have to contact TER about whether restoration of past reviews that were taken down is possible after the other problems have been fixed. Thank you for corroborating that I most likely DID receive PM's regarding CLL, but the booker does not know that I am CDL. I never use my handle to book with any agency. Agency bookers usually speak pretty good English. Some of these PM's were difficult for me to figure out what they were saying. Obviously, they were using translator apps which are often incorrect translations. After a few back and forth questions and answers, I was able to understand what they were asking.
A few of the girls were ones that contacted me when CV shut down in March of 2018. I helped them then, so they came back to get my thoughts on this CLL issue. I don't initiate any PM contact with Kgirls. That's one of the things they like about me. If they have a question, they can ask, but I'm not going to be burning up their TER inbox with chit-chat like a lot of Kgirl fans would do if they knew their username. I may not hear from them for years, until they have another problem. BTW, Kgirls usually have a cutesy username that no booker would ever use. How many bookers do you know that would call themselves something like kpop25, or cupcake7? Lol
Even if it HAD been a booker, which it wasn't, it would not change the fact that I was contacted about these problems and I was able to give sound advice. EVERYONE here benefits from removing the password protection and getting the review restrictions removed. I think even you would have to grudgingly admit that. I have been receiving PM's from various girls for years and the ones I give good advice to will tell others, who will then ask me about situations pertaining to them. I'm well-established as being willing to help both Kgirls and mongers by PM with issues pertaining to this biz. Always glad to help if I know the answer. Even though your intent was to cast further doubt on my claims by speculating it was the booker, you inadvertently did more to help than hurt me. Thanks.
My intent was not to cast further doubts. You still think I'm out to get you. I'm not. Relax.
I needed a confirmation that it was you who told them to get pwd protection off as I've noticed the sheer coincidence. And looks like I got it. That's all. I don't really care whether it was the girls or the booker. Booker on behalf of girls or girls on behalf of booker. Doesn't matter.
And yes, I welcome removal of passwords from kgirl sites. I get tired of telling people passwords and then when they are changed I have to update. The more transparent a site is, the better for everyone.
That everyone benefits when agencies are responsive to the concerns of mongers, and one way to do that is by pressure through the Kgirls who work there. Its not the first time I have used this approach to get an org to make changes for the betterment of the monger experience. Sometimes, the interests of the girls and the interests of mongers are on the same side, so you just have to devise a solution to whatever problem there is that works for both sides, and show that to the agency one way or another. Its a win for everyone.
Honest question. Didn't you put Rocket on "Ignore"?
by PM, so I took him off. We'll see how it goes. So far, its fine. We're both keeping to our agreement.
I don't remember agreeing to anything.
I did say that Im not out here to troll you and that I think we can coexist here. But that's after you took me off ignore already, because you cant pm someone if you're ignored.
I just wanted to emphasize that I did not ask to be taken off your ignore nor have I ever expressed the desire for you to do so, nor did I agree to anything from my side that would make you do so.
Happy 4th of July!
We had three or four PM's at the beginning of June where my impression was that we were of the same mind that when you and I go at each other and create a ten-foot thread, it discourages others from joining the conversation. I thought we had an understanding that after a few exchanges on a topic, we would try not to get carried away. If this was not your understanding, too, then say so, and its easily fixed by me hitting the ignore button again. You have NOT been arguing ad nauseum since then, so I assumed we had a gentlemen's agreement. Apparently, you don't think so. Is that correct?
In these pms I said that I understood where you are coming from in regards to our arguing, and said that I don't have any big grievances against you in particular and that I think we can coexist. Ie, I don't argue with you just to argue with YOU and to make you look bad,like your exchanges with bigp and so forth. I will argue the point that is being argued. In this very thread you implied I was trying to make you look bad, when it couldn't be further from the truth - I simply wanted to know if it was you who helped cll to get pwd protection off.
I never agreed to do anything though, please get it correct. I never stated I will not reply back and forth or won't argue with you or anyone else. It was you who said that you will do it, and tho I applaud your willingness there I cannot do it myself.
I will argue whatever I want to argue with whomever I want to argue for however long it takes to argue, especially if it concerns injustice towards mongers, double standards, lies by orgs/girls or spreading public awareness of subpar product. I'll stay true to what I do.
But again, I have no Ill will towards you. Your threats with pressing your button don't really faze me tho. In words of The Dude, "This aggression won't stand, man."
Just to clarify again- I did not make any agreements to do anything and there wasnt any effort on my part as a result of any such agreement to curb my arguing because of our talk. However, I also noticed there is less tension here. So maybe whatever the fuck I'm doing or not doing is working. Lol.
Hope you had a good fourth of July. I had a solid one. Cheers.
What part of PRIVATE in the term "PM" don't you two get?
If you guys want to have a PRIVATE conversation, fine. But continuing your so called Private conversation kind of defeats the entire purpose, wouldn't you agree? I know BLRPOS doesn't consider "Private conversations" PRIVATE, but I would expect better from the two of you.
And for the record I am placing my post in reply to you and not CDL only because you made the last post on the subject, not because I consider either of you more guilty than the other. PLEASE guys, one BLRPOS on this board is already one too many, we don't need more of this kind of crap.
I simply wanted it to be known that I did not have any gentlemens agreement with cdl.
That's all. If I'm willing to die for my set of convictions and beliefs, then it's silly to think I would sacrifice them for someone taking me off ignore on a message board.
And, nothing I've said in my pms is secret.
BOTH of you divulging a PRIVATE conversation that you had via PM is a violation of TER rules and a fucking nuisance to the rest of us. Not as big a nuisance as BLRPOS and his constant search for "gotcha" posts from several years ago, but it still adds to board clutter and is against TER rules.
Like you, anything I say in private I am more than willing to do in public, but in deference to TER rules and as a courtesy to the community I try to NOT to air my private conversations here on the public boards and I am sure most everyone else on this board would appreciate it if you and CDL did us the same favor.
Besides, you BOTH have your own respective "stalkers" who would love nothing more than to get you kicked off the boards for a while by doing a RAP on each of you. BLRPOS and Jensen are the two who come immediately to mind. lol
You are like one of those idiots who replies to all to point out the obvious when somebody accidentally emailed the whole distribution list.
Poof, here you are. ROFLMFAO
As for your question. (You did phrase it as a question I hope you know) The reason I will NOT STFU is that this is a public discussion board, not to mention if my posts annoy you that's even more reason for me to post more of the same.
You really aren't too fucking bright, are you? Just goes to show that my stalkers are better than CDL's stalkers, except for the ones where we share "join custody" of course. lol
He started it with his mention of the PM "agreement." Using the PM argument is CDL's M.O. He uses the cover of PM's to tell his lies because he thinks that his lies can't be refuted due to TER rules.
CDL has been a member of TER a lot longer than rocket. He should know better...and he DOES. But he didn't expect rocket to engage him about this PM "agreement." CDL uses the PM routine to cover his lies and bullshit. If he says something was said in PM, he knows it can't be controverted. But he didn't count on rocket. Rocket cares a lot more about THE TRUTH than about TER rules. He didn't let CDL hide behind the "PM curtain" as if CDL was the Wizard of Oz. He called CDL on his "PM agreement" bullshit.
The truth is something YOU and CDL have NEVER been interested in, viz. you trying to blame BOTH CDL and rocket when it's clearly all CDL's fault for trying to hide his lie of an "agreement" behind the veneer of "PM."
P.S. It's nice to see that I'm in your head 24/7/365...BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!
I think I mentioned to you on perhaps your very first week here that taking the default position that anything you read that was written by BLRPOS is a lie will end up making you right a LOT more often than wrong.
Back to the subject at hand. I know that if you can link something current that shows an agency promising discounts for "positive reviews" you can most certainly get that agency delisted. Whether or not a screenshot is enough to get them the boot I honestly don't know. My suggestion is to give it a shot. you have nothing to lose but a few minutes of your time. Like you I don't see it making any difference whether or not the agency in question is a K-Girl agency or not. Review fraud is review fraud regardless of who commits it.
-- Modified on 6/23/2021 12:49:10 PM
I'd say that any agency that practices this technique is opening themselves to customers asking for more for their reviews. Also, requires much more work on the agency's part to monitor, if they decide to pay. More disgruntled customers and girls. I don't think this will work.
-- Modified on 6/23/2021 11:07:45 AM
from TER for variations on this theme. Some actually dictate what should be in the review. Others will threaten to drop a regular is he doesn't write what she wants, etc. Just about everything that can be done to manipulate reviews has been tried by SOMEONE, but if TER finds out, justice is swift and certain. Without the freedom to review strictly from the POV of the reviewer, reviews are compromised and can't be trusted.
TER should leave them up, with an asterisk explaining that this org is known for compensating reviewers. Banning the org just results in a lot of people not knowing about the offender.
This is actually something along with what I thought. It preserves all reviews but also makes the reader aware that this org rewards those reviews with money
It's a nice compromise. The problem is it leaves too much ambiguity imo.
Still, I can see people who want to see a girls reviews, finding zero on here, they will just go to another platform that doesn't remove those reviews, and get their (bad) info from there. This is what fuels my argument that delisted providers should still have their old reviews listed.
Delisting a provider or Agency does nothing to warn the community as there are a thousand legitimate reasons for de-listing. I think de-listing PROTECTS the dishonest providers/agencies a lot more than it protects the community.
You would think that TER, who's major asset is the size of their review database would want that data base to be as large as possible, but I guess using logic where it comes to why TER does anything is an effort in futility.
then assume the worst. That is usually a safe assumption.