I just don't think that this is a problem in LA. I can't speak for other areas.
Fake reviews and shills are easy to spot. I don't differentiate between them as they are both equally worthless. The fake review problem to the extent that it exists is exacerbated by TER giving VIP credit for reviews. As long as this policy exists, there will always be an incentive to write fake reviews. Since it seems unlikely that the policy will change, i just ignore the fake/shill reviews entirely. The few bad orgs/brokers are also easy to spot. They use fake photos from stock photo sites, Instagram, tumbler or lingerie ads. They either don't screen or do a half-assed job of it. They bait and switch, or lie about the girls. Again, there aren't many and they're easy to spot and avoid. IMHO this is a non-issue.I'm starting this thread so we can consolidate the conspiracy theories, none of which we seen an example of yet, on one thread, so we don't keep clogging up every thread with the same discussion. This way, those that want to keep abreast of the latest developments can go to one place and come here, and those that don't care can skip this thread entirely without worrying about it spilling over onto all the other topics on this board like it has been doing lately.
I'll start it off . . . .
Does ANYONE have any evidence that Kgirl bookers are writing fake reviews ON TER to promote their Kgirls? I'm not talking about MONGER shills. Everyone knows Mufftime in SoCal and a few others in some other cities. I'm talking about shill reviews written by a BOOKER or any EMPLOYEE of an org. Please include a link to the review, so we can all see what you're talking about. If this is going on, like some here claim, I would certainly like to see some links so that I can know who is doing it, and make sure I don't get taken advantage of by an unscrupulous org.
I, for one, will not bring up this topic nor respond to it anymore on other threads. Hopefully, the conspiracy theorists will recognize the value of having all of discussions AND EVIDENCE in one place for ease of access by all here.
#1
https://www.theeroticreview.com/reviews/detail/cathy-review-by-jay9891-2209588
Classic org rebuttal review to the first review of a new girl (which wasnt even harsh, just that she was green). The only review this supposed "monger" ever did.
------------------------------------------------
#2
https://www.theeroticreview.com/reviews/detail/tiana-review-by-indoorsport-2211512
indoorsport has advertised Sweetangels org on the previous site, multiple times; reviewed tiana 3 times in a row there without saying anything about her:
https://forum.neuroticdonkey.ch/search/advanced/10749
(replace neuroticdonkey with the correct site)
He has admitted he was a friend of tiana's in the same link
Sweetangels switter address is https://switter.at/@indoor_sport69
Tiana has very uneven reviews as well. Not sure how much more of a case one needs.
------------------------------------------------
#3,4,5,6
https://www.theeroticreview.com/reviews/detail/june-review-by-woodsman19-2212144
https://www.theeroticreview.com/reviews/detail/ivy-review-by-nsooh-2213064
https://www.theeroticreview.com/reviews/detail/ivy-review-by-byuntae06-2212951
https://www.theeroticreview.com/reviews/detail/honey-review-by-madystick-2209883
Tell me this isnt the same "monger" writing the reviews for different girls in the same org under FOUR different names. one review for each guy. This person didnt even bother to cover up his fake reviews up by employing proper capitalization. This is as blatant as it can get.
And this is just me not even searching by text, just casually scratching the surface.
------------------------------------------------
CDL, you're never going to win this. I went through thousands of fake reviews. I can spot them from a mile away. Trying to pretend like fake reviews don't exist on TER is insulting to my intelligence.
And what the hell is a difference between a shill review and an org review ? A monger shill or conflict of interest review means hes doing it for some favor, which is against TER terms of service, and is misleading the monger. It's the same thing as org fake review. These reviews are written with orgs approval.
me a space to respond directly to Rocket Man.
I had no intention of trying to insult your intelligence since, IMO, the jury is still out on how much you have.
I grant you that the first example in San Jose COULD be written by an org, but it could also be written by a monger shill, or one her regular customers. Regular customers often write in a third-person style telling us what is on the menu and what we can expect if we see her. The fact that they are regulars means its always going to be a positive narrative. Experienced mongers like myself recognize these as a form of promotion and disregard them. I didn't realize that all of this work you are doing was directed at the truly clueless among the Kgirl monger ranks.
Tiana has 24 reviews. It doesn't matter what ONE review says. Anybody that would throw a dart at the list and only read the one the dart hits is likewise stupid. Its pretty hard to get away with a shill review on a girl with this many reviews. Even if you are right, it has no effect. But the other possibilities I mentioned above could also explain high review scores. You cannot definitively say it is an org, so this is sheer speculation on your part. You should consider ALL the facts, not just the ones you think fit your narrative.
Number 3 has had the link expire, so I can't tell you how you may have gotten that one wrong, too.
Numbers 4 and 5 are for the same girl. Both reviews COULD be fake, but they are more in character with the young guys who write fake reviews to scam the system here for free VIP. Anyone who considers a four or five line review with scant details other than the menu laundry list when they are trying to choose a Kgirl to see is likewise stupid. If these two reviews, devoid of details, were the only two she had, which looks like the case here, I would consider my decision to see her strictly TOFTT. I wouldn't give weight to either one of these just based on the content. It doesn't matter who wrote it.
Number 6 is the same issue as numbers 4 and 5, AND the same agency. I will say here that I have never seen anyone from this agency. They showed up six or eight months ago and right away, they got the reputation for phony photos and B & S. That's why I never went. Knowing what I know about them, this review, plus 4 and 5, could very well be what you claim it is, The problem is, you are six months late in getting to the party with a warning on this org. We already know in SoCal that they are sketchy. Guys that have been hobbying in SoCal more than few months already know about them. The only guys that go there are the gullible and the ones that can't get approved somewhere else.
My original statement to you is that I have not seen any evidence that the major established orgs are writing fake reviews to promote their girls, and the fact that your are pointing to this already-disreputable SoCal agency and the NorCal one that has already been outed on another board has not provided any additional support for your claims of widespread booker/org misconduct when it comes to reviews. All you have shown here is the outliers.
LOL
Your original statement challenged me to find a single TER fake review. I have done so, and now you are changing your story. You are simply being dishonest here. And link #3 still works.
Here are the reviews side-by-side from my elastic, for anyone who cares to look how similar they look.
https://imgur.com/a/XO2bXWm
(you might need to view it in imgur app or on a computer to make it not blurry)
Lol about Tiana, again, its an example of fake review that you kept on claiming does not exist on this board.
"I didn't realize that all of this work you are doing was directed at the truly clueless among the Kgirl monger ranks "
Wait, WAT ?
I've stated multiple times that I want to protect newbies, ie people very new to the business, and even those who havent seen a single kgirl yet. Again, you are being dishonest. I've stated at least 10 times I want to protect the "clueless" people and not the vip mongers. I've stated multiple times that I want to share as much info as possible in the public, including rebrand info, fake review info, and so on. I know the fake reviews, I trust that you know your fucking way around, I trust that twoon and many others can find it. Thats irrelevant to the fact that fake reviews done by orgs happen. And they are aimed at....wait for it... NEWBIES. This was my whole fucking point that its the NEWBIES that get hurt by fake reviews. I'm convinced you're ignoring that point on purpose.
You're hitting a new low by acting like you've just heard this.
You dared me, and stated as so much that you haven't seen a single fake review from orgs in your 12 or 15 years here.
You said "Still waiting for you to point out a SINGLE incidence of an org writing a fake review on TER to shill one of their girls. Its time to put up or STFU, my friend"
I've given you the list and "put up" more than SINGLE incidence and now apparently you want to switch the story to 'major established orgs'. LMAO.
"All you have shown here is the outliers"
And just a day ago, you were asking me to find a SINGLE fake review. Not that I found more than one, you now switched goalposts.I don't give a rats ass that you haven't seen anyone of the agency who reviews #3,4,5,6. I don't give a rats ass what your 'decision would be'. I'm not interested in how YOU would deal with the reviews. The world doesn't revolve around you. I'm not out here to help vip mongers and mongers with benefits. I always look at it from the viewpoint of someone who doesn't know shit about kgirls.
"Experienced mongers like myself recognize these as a form of promotion and disregard them"
I DONT GIVE A RATS ASS ABOUT "EXPERIENCED MONGERS LIKE MYSELF". Did I say it clear enough ? You're now making excuses for fake reviews, which you were just claiming do not exist on TER kgirl profiles.
You were claiming that all reviews on TER are not fake. You were claiming that NO orgs do this. I had to fucking stick your face in these glaring obvious org reviews. And now you're still playing like you're in the right ?
I thought you were better than that, CDL. Apparently, not. I will keep posting fake reviews in here, and then make my own thread outing fake reviews, because I believe I addressed your challenge.
I'm pretty disgusted how intellectually dishonest you were in this post. I thought you had it in you to admit when you're wrong, like a man. Alas, I was wrong.
I hope others do see this and make the right conclusions. When the point of dispute goes from "find me a fake review by orgs, never seen it in my xx years here" to "well an experienced monger should know how to work around that review or avoid that org", I'm pretty sure no further comments are necessary.
Rocket out.
Sean
Don't waste your time with this clown. I think it is prudent business to put out a review for a new gal or one that does not seem to be getting many inquiries especially since a search defaults by date of review.
I operate on the premise that a new provider with one review by a reviewer with few to no other reviews is done by the booker. I'll still make the leap and take one for the team if I like what I see.
Thanks for sharing the plethora of examples of potential reviews that were done by bookers.
Happy hunting
put up a link that works. If you want guys to check them out, it should just be clickable. Maybe you didn't do it on purpose, hoping I would not bother to check them, and find the flaws in your claim?
I forgot to address your point about capitalization. If that is your "tell", you are way off base. Most young guys that text a lot rely on their smart phones to capitalize the next letter after a period or the letter "I" in the middle of a sentence. On most internet sites, including here, you have to do it manually. They probably don't notice. There are hundreds like this on TER, some from young guys with a lot of reviews who have been here a long time. I thought you would have realized this after reading "thousands" of reviews like you claim. Exaggerate much?
Mr golf-with-booker, you can't do a copy and paste? Wow. Stooping to new lows with every post.
I hit the nerve, didn't I ?
The fact that 4 reviews in the period of two months, from 4 different accounts, each having just one review to their name, use the same sentence constructs, same faulty grammar ("get really into" instead of "gets really into") and same short, awkward sentences, and all of them have no capitalization, don't ring any alarms ?
Just the other day, Jensen in general discussion was saying how multiple alarms should be going off in an experienced monger's head.
Are there any going on in your head when you read those 4 reviews ?
...have to copy and paste the link when it's a lot easier for you to remove the 's'. If you want to convince us you're right, you have to make it easy for us to get to the info you want us to see.
If I could edit my post, I would. How do I edit my post ? I don't even get to preview my post before I send it and it spends a bunch of time in moderation queue.
It's pretty weird that http secure protocol links don't register as proper links on here. Do ftp links or any other protocol links ?
Once the post is active you cannot edit. However, if you go to My TER, expand More and select My Posts (or the obvious link for that) if the post is not active you can open the post and in the Actions menu edit is available.
Not sure about the s being the problem. It used to be a problem putting http in the input box for links but that was fixed a long time back - or at least now. I always thought in message links would not implement an href tag regardless of the protocol in the URL. Could be wrong.
Why not test:
https://www.theeroticreview.com/
http://www.theeroticreview.com/
It's not hard, just click on your own post, on the lower left part of your post you will see a tab called "actions" Clicking on it will give you a drop down menu, the third option is "edit message" as long as you do it within the first four hours. After that you will be locked out and only Admin can edit or delete your post.
If you ever want to simply delete a post you have made, within the same four hour window of course, is to follow the exact same procedure except when you actually edit your message just erase it all and type in "please delete" in the posts subject line and Admin will delete it for you.
As far as posting links goes, both Jensen and BPOS have given you good advice and I have nothing to add
...Click the green "Actions'' tab under your post. The dropdown menu should say: 'Reply', 'Quote, 'Edit Message', 'Report this post'. If you don't see "Edit Message" then your post has been up for more than 4 hours and you can't edit it. Click "Edit Message" and...edit your message. Then post it again. It will go into the moderation queue again.
You can also edit your post while it's in the moderation queue. Click "My TER" at the top left of the page. It will take you to the TER home page. On the left you'll see a column of choices under "My Quick Links." Click "My Board Posts." Choose the post and edit it in the same way you would edit an Active post. The 4 hour limit still applies to active posts but the ones that are listed as "New" are still in the moderation queue. I don't think the 4 hour limit applies to those until they are 'Active', but I'm not sure because most posts aren't in moderation for more than 4 hours.
I just do not get the defensive reactions to rocketqwerty by cordelion, gambler, jenson et al. What he does is good for all of us. Also, this is primarily a bay area problem and does not appear to be meaningfully prevalent in SoCal and cordelion, jenson, gambler et al seem to be more Socal oriented. Please lets direct our energies to what garbage maybe coming in from the outside rather waste our energies writing 20 minute posts of inconsequential debate to each other.
Btw, cordelion, if you thought Tiana had naturals, I find that completely hilarious.
I think the observation that this seems to be a BA problem that is not such a big deal elsewhere is where some of the push comes from. He came across as if we have a big problem that he is now here to help with. When people tell me they are here to help me even when I'm saying I don't really need help...well, my first reaction to to start looking for the hidden agenda or worrying about the do-gooder that is here to save me from myself even if they have to kill me to do that.
Rocket say that's not what he's up to, okay, maybe so. He is coming across that way in a lot of posts and he seems to be blind to the other side of the problem where reviews are putting out crappy scores for what they say are good providers. That's not helping the other mongers. If he won't be balanced and objective then he is putting up a big flag saying "don't take these statement at face value".
I'm not completely sure the review he posted here are fake in the sense CDL was asking for. Perhaps they are. It's nice he says he has read 1000s of fake reviews. What is the basis of that claim? I suspect what is actually the case is that he has read 1000s of reviews he views a fake, which is a much different claim. I don't know if he suffers from confirmation bias or tries to control for it.
What would be good is rather than his assertion of expertise and challenge to prove him wrong perhaps he could provide his case for his interpretation that these are reviews written by and for the agency. Then we can actually have a meaningful discussion on the board. We can double check our own premises and criteria we might use when looking at a review and assessing its value.
Having THAT discussion rather than the "these are clearly fake and no fucking way you are winning the argument here because I am clearly the expert" is that we can:
1) get input from multiple people so get a check on our own assumptions
2) have those details out in the open so any lurkers can perhaps learn something and improve their hit ratio
3) maybe have something that can then be summarized into a useful post for later reference for newbies as they start using TER and the reviews to protect themselves
4) maybe even something that can be added by the admins to the newbie help documents making it even easier for the newbies not to do stupid things and
5) Get us closer to a position where we can have a common basis for assessing the actual extent of the problem which may suggest best approaches towards dealing with them.
I think it is very helpful to separate the issue of inflated reviews from those written by the agency or provider (so patently fake) and those written by shills.
I've provided my reasoning as to why those 2 first reviews are fake. In case of indoorsport, I've provided multiple pieces of evidence.
Read reviews #3,4,5,6. I can explain why they are fake, but isn't it painfully obvious ?
They are done clearly by the same guy, with same grammatical mistakes and sometimes same phrases. Each of those different accounts have exactly one review, for the same org, at around the same time. Isn't it crystal clear what's going on there ?
I've seen this guy's fake reviews before. And I can show a similar review from the old site, that I have stored in my database. All it takes is to enter the grammatically incorrect phrase, they are very likely to use it again and again thinking it's the right way to write it.... yet the entropy of such phrase is very high. This is a free hint - if you are ever going to be searching by text, take the phrase that has a mistake or have a word that is used rarely. It conveys the most information.
I can expand on this some more, if needed.
This was much better.
I would not make that much of post that are all lower case and agree that whoever is writing these is even worse at English than I am. An I agree that here these are definitely suspect. However, I would defer to the LA guys on if this is something to be concerned about. Is January.Escorts.biz (Angels or Vixens -- hum, thought foxes were not to be trusted 
a meaningful agency or some brand new or 4th tier org trying to get something going for itself?
This isn't to say I'm endorsing such a tactic. However when comparing 4 reviews to the crap you see for legitimate businesses (we guarantee 100+ positive reviews in the first X period of time, days or maybe weeks, or we will deliver 50,000 clicks for your ad revenue in the first X period of time) seems a bit tame.
Looking at the review for June one is in the list you have. One is not and they are pretty close. The other reviewer has a lot of review, and reasonable variation so seem legit. So one might say, yeah not a great tactic but perhaps they are not trying to mislead.
In total, for the phone number associated with the january.escorts.biz site has a total of 8 reviews the most recent from March, the oldest 5 months back. Was thinking they might be dead or a number change but they are using the same number on the web site and show two girls currently available. So one might ask, if this is such a terrible group where are all the fake agency ad reviews for April and May?
As for indoorsports. Maybe, maybe not. You said something about doing ad or host ads or something. That would tie the review to a direct benefit and a clear violation of TER policy. Just because he likes the girl and doesn't mind tell everyone so they know, so helping her out, doesn't mean the review is fake, shill perhaps.
But, isn't looking for good reviews and seeing good providers and having a good session what the reviews are all about. Sharing that information, even if you acknowledge it will be helping the girl, is not selling your monger brothers out. If the information and assessment of the girl is a fair assessment, then the fake agency review or the shills review is not really doing any harm.
It would be really good if someone in the SoCal area could comment here.
I suspect everything below is somewhere in the slim to none range for happening but could be rather cool.
The other thing I thought was good about your response was the mention of your database that seems to have a collection of things that might be useful for training an AI. If so perhaps TER might consider an investment (assuming they have programming skills needed) making an AI to help identify incoming reviews for agencies that might flag potential abuse.
Even if not, perhaps you or others have coding skills to use your DB and then screen all the reviews from that past month that fit the filter of agency generated review. I would suggest not trying to highlight shill reviews or at least not initially. You could even be really creative and post a nice COVID-19 type map of the USA with all the agency abuse hot spots.
Crap, didn't post the first draft and then timed out so lost. Will summarize.
I like this response it has something that can engage.
I agree that your claim on the four for Angels and Vixens is likely true. Looking at all 8 reviews for the agency only a couple looked clean. One was just really odd. Yes I agree that single review and gone is a tell. Analysis of text is kind of difficult but am not challenging anything with that statement -- another comment below.
What I did see was 8 review ranging from 2 months back to 5 months back. One of the reviews only seemed to have the questionable reviewer so comparison is not possible there. Some only have one review so again, nothing to compare against. Of the two that offer comparisons June's two review seem pretty close 7/7 and 8/8. The other, Honey, a bit worse with 6/6 to 7/9. In both cases the agency review is the higher.
But we don't see anything after March. I started to think they changed numbers or closed down. No, new girls and same number.
Comparing this to what happen in legal areas (we guarantee 100 positive reviews in your first two weeks, we will deliver 50,000 ad clicks in your first month...) well, four agency reviews seem rather tame. Given that for June the difference seem rather trivial and it's not happening any longer I am not how excited one should get about it.
What I would like to know from the LA based guys who that agency is. Are they major (with only to girls I suspect not). Are they new in the past 6 months? Are they a 4th tier agency no one pays attention to? Again, not justifying such a tactic but in the real world the problem seems a whole lot worse and if it was a temporary event to get some notice in a competitive market. Now, perhaps they have not stopped but just don't target TER -- or perhaps TER already caught on and don't approve the reviews. In the former, well not much to get excited about even if it is hardly behavior to endorse. In that later case TER's approval process is doing what it is supposed to be doing and there is not wave of fake agency reviews coming our way. You don't need to keep crying wolf.
With regard to shill reviews. That's gray. Indoorsports having some ad relationship with the agency the girl worked for, if the reviews are paid for with ads, clearly violation of TER no reviews for benefit if that was occurring. But just because he likes the girl and wants to help her out does not mean the review is either fake or inaccurate on its own. Lots of starry-eye mongers post emotionally driven reviews and fully believe they are giving honest reviews. They are just not good, impartial reviews. I agree that it is at the top of the range but everyone will discount it. But lets include to bottom as well. You still avoid address the review that call the provider DDG (which is certainly consistent with indoorsports) but gives a 6 in looks. That is clearly unfair (and much more cut and dry than your textual analysis of the four LA reviews). It is also just as misleading to other mongers as giving a 9 to a woman that you can only describe as "nice looking". If you call one fake you have to call both fake to be consistent.
The other thing I do like about what you mention is having the DB and it seems some good AI training criteria. Not sure if you are a coder or not but if you are and can make a crawler to grab reviews and then run through your checks you could actually do that for, say February , March and April and post results for discussion. Clearly if you are doing all this manually way too much work. An alternative might be to see if TER is using or interested in using (and able to build) some AI tool to flag incoming reviews for additional attention to filter fake agency reviews. If they are not doing something like that already your check and DB might be helpful. Sounds like you would be more than happy to share but they might actually be willing to offer some compensation (maybe lifetime VIP who knows -- they could yawn and say fuck off we not interested).
If such a report could be generated monthly would be really cool to have a map of the USA modeled after the COVID-19 maps to show fake agency hot spots.
-- Modified on 5/31/2020 9:59:21 PM
Thanks for the far more balanced response than CDL. BTW, do you agree that the goalpost moving of "show me one fake review" to "show me one fake review from a major socal org" is pretty disingenuous ? I never even spoke about socal orgs. I'm from the bay. Lol. And btw, the guy claims he cant open some of my links, maybe you can show him how. Lol.
" Given that for June the difference seem rather trivial and it's not happening any longer I am not how excited one should get about it."
I mean, this was just an example. This agency is trash and there is another agency in LA I hope everyone avoids (or maybe its the same one, who knows), acektown. There, a lot of time there are bait and switches and lots of ghosting when mongers arrive. In fact, USA ex guide info site has a much more active kgirl community, especially bb. Bunch of shills, org guys, bookers posting schedule every day, and obviously mongers etc. Its all in the open and much more lively than TER. Again, I understand the argument of LA not having a big problem at all, and I even admitted that it's true. However, to say that there are no fake reviews is different.
"So one might ask, if this is such a terrible group where are all the fake agency ad reviews for April and May? "
The first step is admitting that fake reviews exist. The reasoning of why they stopped doing is another question. This agency, or at least phone number of this agency, dumped thousands of bot-generated reviews on EM. I have examples in database too. This is how I noticed them in the first place. Those bots would give this agency and sweetangels a lot of fake reviews. And sweetangels org is ran by an LA girl...again, I understand that this isn't a case on TER, but it's something to be concerned about. You were claiming that TER was good at self-policing, yet they cant see fake reviews that I can. This should at least be concerning, don't ya think ?
And I get it, and I actually agree- as of now, there isn't a big reason to cry wolf. HOWEVER, for preventive measures people need to be aware that fake reviews exist, that org shill reviews exist (whatever the difference) and so on. I'm just raising awareness of newbie mongers. Most agencies, especially in case of bad quality girls, are not working on the newbie mongers' side. The vip mongers know of a bad quality girl and stay away, but by not providing negative reviews, they silently encourage such girls business and thus in turn cause more newbies to waste money.
"You still avoid address the review that call the provider DDG "
I don't know if you read all of my posts to you, but I do yours to me. I already admitted that that review, while a tough call, shouldn't have made it through the TER approval process, and is misleading. I agree with you that review is trash and should be removed. Listen, I have no issues admitting many 'bad' reviews are bad, misleading, or even fake (rare but of course it happens, sometimes by rival agencies or mongers with a grudge or whatever). Trust me, I would love nothing else than seeing newbie mongers get 10/10 with each girl they see. We would have peace and harmony.
Yes, I scrape reviews and yes, I do it here too although it's harder because of rate limits. Yes, I'm a coder and my ego says I'm pretty good but in reality any coder who thinks that is not, so 
I'm ok. I'm not really interested in helping TER, and scraping reviews is something these sites do not like since I can potentially share db, and then Im copyright infringing. Besides, TER isn't exactly legal under FOSTA. And remember, I don't want anything back besides newbies having more informed decisions available for them to make.
The main reason is, bay orgs can move to another site, and I dont want my tech to be only for one site. Remember, I made a vow to travel wherever they are and make sure they never get out of bounds like before. I intend to keep that promise.
If you are a fellow programmer, we can maybe talk in private (yes, I know you've said not to pm you). I won't play all of my cards, but I can tell you what I have, how I use it and so on. Maybe you will have some interesting ideas. Again, I don't really want TER to be on this.
Cheers
I'm not sure that is a good conversation to get into but will try to steer things out of the collision space.
I've been accused of that but will say I don't agree. I think you've done that to me but you don't agree.
Perhaps best to chalking that up to 1) missing the point the other was making so creating the appearance and 2) once we start butting heads no one backs down and we all start getting a bit of myopia on things.
I think when CDL says "show me one" he is not really saying "I don't believe any exist. I say there are NO such animals" Refuting that universal statement is done by providing the one counter example.
However, I think what CDL was really saying is, I don't think the problem claimed really exists prove that to me. So just showing one example doesn't prove any big problem for us to get worked up about. In this regard I think we're getting wrapped up in the weeds rather than actually talking about if there really is or is not some systemic problem -- in fact I suspect we have not actually clearly specified the problem space so somewhat still talking past one another. Which of course then lends to the "moving goal posts" perceptions.
Fair enough, can you tell me why now I have to find evidence in MAJOR So Cal orgs? Why is it limited to major orgs? Newbies start from low tier orgs. Why is it limited to so Cal? Majority of fake reviews on other sites were in bay area. Why can't it be a minor bay area org? This makes no sense to me, at all.
Also would be cool if you address the rest of my post. Every time you address me, you remember that review you showed me, so I'd like to receive an acknowledgement from you about it that I do agree with you, almost fully, about that review.
-- Modified on 6/1/2020 6:10:56 PM
The bad review. I did address your response elsewhere. That response was that I'm bit surprised that you seem to thing calling a review bad and misleading when the review describes the girl as DDG but gives a 6 in looks "a tough call" but agreed you end up at the same conclusion: it's a bad, unfair and misleading review.
You don't have to find anything. However, as has been said a bunch of times you've come across as the new team member that hired that is acting like the existing team was clueless and now he's here will save the day. That was the first impression and you're still living with it.
If you just want to find what you think are bad reviews and then post them so the newbies in BA and LA don't get fooled just do that. It might actually be better to do that on the newbie board but since you're only talking about K maybe here is okay.
However, as you have discovered and demonstrated new to TER members should be reading and asking on the newbie board first. Everyone will always direct newbies in that direction and the menu is pretty clear so it's not hard to find.
PLEASE don't clutter up the Newbie board with issues unique to the K-Girl world.
The Newbie board is more about Newbies getting to ask us questions and us answering them, not about confusing them with stuff they are in no position to fully understand yet. We want to answer questions for them, not create new ones. Not to mention the K-Girl board has always been one of TER's "rough and tumble" boards with major disagreements and flame wars the norm, not the exception here, The Newbie board is a "safe zone" where we don't criticize people for "dumb questions" so as to not chase off new members before they even get started. Even I am "NICE" on the Newbie board, I of course make no such claims on the other boards. lol
Why are you surprised it's a tough call for me? There is little evidence that the discrepancy was done on purpose. Unlike the reviews I presented, the reviewer's other reviews semeed on point. If he had another review like that, it would be much less of a tough call to make. I have hundreds of reviews pegged as maybe written by org shills, but I won't post them because there's little evidence. And I want to produce zero or close to zero false positives.
Fake reviews with low scores certainly happen and should be treated the same way as fake ones with high scores. Exterminate them and put a foot in reviewers ass,figuratively speaking.
I still don't get how the "find one fake review" turned into "find one fake review of major socal org". It's oddly VERY specific, almost like I hit close to home. Why not bay area orgs sine I'm from the bay? Why not Philly girls, why not Dallas, the scene is crazy in Dallas. Why socal and why major? Newbies always start off in shitty tiers because of lack of references.
Since this thread is called conspiracy theories, maybe the very specific change happened because cdl has some ties to major socal orgs, and enjoys some benefits of the VIP network, such as golfing with bookers and attending booker birthday parties? I'm not stating anything, but it seems certainly like a road I'm willing to explore.
SoCal agency that we have all known for months was a disreputable org. This is why you should have listened to GaG's advice not to come here and tell us how we are doing everything wrong. It only results in making yourself look stupid, with no help from anyone else. Most of the guys that have been here awhile from SoCal already know to avoid this place, but if you want to spend a lot of time on them, go ahead. I'm sure the rest of the BA guys that seldom monger in SoCal very often will appreciate your efforts. However, if they have solid BA refs, they can get into the better places. They don't have to bottom-feed at this place.
You said you didn't know about ANY fake reviews, when all of those were under your nose in socal.
Nice goalpost moving, mister golf-with-booker. So pathetic.
And if case you don't know, most newbies start off in low-tier orgs. But somehow you missed me saying that I stand with newbie mongers, when I said it 50 times on this board.
First off, I actually supported Rocket's "mongers first" mentality, and I said so on many occasions AND I am not even in California at all, much less So Cal. I was however born and raised in the Bay Area,
Where Rocket went off the rails was when he started projecting that the problems you guys had on the board you came from were already endemic to THIS board and then he started DICTATING to us, or at least he took that tone with us, about how we should act on what we consider to be OUR fucking board. No one is going to make friends that way, and that's what I said "nicely" to Rocket, I can say it less nicely if necessary, but I'll say it nicely to you once again. No one like someone new coming on a board acting like he is the new sheriff in town. If he will just back off a little, we'll be a lot more likely to listen to what he has to say.
I do agree that the 20 minute inconsequential debate posts are nothing more than board clutter, in the famous words of Rodney King, "Can't we all get along?" lol That said, we were here first, we aren't going to change to make a new poster happy, HE has to show some flexibility if this shit is going to end.
I never started dictating anything. Again, anyone can act as they want to act on this board. I'm not preventing anything.
If you're referring to the one PSA I did, this wasn't for the old timers, but rather for the newbies to be aware.
Everyone is welcome to do as they please. And again, I'm not here to make friends.
You are more than achieving your goal of not making any friends here. I will tell you from my 11.5 years experience on TER that the "friendships" you eschew have saved me thousands of dollars in money I would have spent on girls I would not have liked. Likewise, the friends I have made here have given me a heads-up on hundreds of occasions about which girls should be on my TDL, which included many girls that went on to become legends. You previously said you have a lot of disappointing sessions compared to me. Maybe the difference is I actually cultivate monger friendships in order exchange intel about the girls. If you were as smart as you think you are, you would know that intel from trusted hobby brothers is the most value resource there is in vetting potential Kgirls to see.
-- Modified on 5/31/2020 2:56:03 PM
You really have reading comprehension problems, bud.
I've stated multiple times I dont network, and I dont brown nose anyone.
Im not here for myself. I'm here to protect newbies getting scammed or bullied by orgs.
I have zero self-interest here. I consider myself intelligent enough to get by without much help. Sure, I will send some pms here and there about some particular girl, maybe. For example, a newbie monger who I think never has seen a kgirl been asking me about natural big boob girls on switter. Im not a boob guy at all ,so Ive asked some guys around. It wasn't even for me.
I never blamed anyone for my own bad sessions. Never have, never will. If I have a big ego (and yeah, I do unfortunately) then I need to be able to only blame myself for when I get a bad session. Most of my disappointing sessions have been instances where there were no other alternatives or I fully knew that I was taking a major risk. I hate prebooking because I have so much shit to do for my job, and I usually book pretty late.
I've been a part of a vip network, but I left. I've been invited to a couple of vip places and Ive declined. Im with the crowd, fuck your vip. The few 'acquaintances' I acquired through my mongering, I'm thankful for them and do cherish them. I've received many pms of encouragement on the old board, and it was all worth it.
I never have and never will go out of my way to make a friendship in order to get some benefit. And if I did, paid pussy would be close to dead last on my list. That shit is everywhere.
to eschew intel from other mongers who I have found are willing to exchange info with fellow hobby buds, then you are choosing to guarantee you will continue to have a high percentage of disappointing sessions. Oftentimes, great service is not just about the sex menu. Appearance is half of the review score. TER averages them together to get the total score for a girl. We all have preferences as to looks, body type and session style, and many reviewers (including fake ones) are bereft of details when it comes to the points that matter to other mongers.
But as a grown man. you are certainly able to choose for yourself how you want to approach this biz. If getting your percentage of great sessions higher is not a priority for you, then I agree, exchanging intel with fellow mongers in your area has no benefit. Its not brown-nosing to trade info on girls you have seen and someone else hasn't, its just smarter to invest your money in pussy with as much info as you can get, so that you make the right choices. With all do respect, it appears from you attitude that you kind of thrive on the drama the comes with disappointment and failure. With success, there is very little drama, only happiness. Maybe that's boring to some people. I wouldn't know.
I was called out multiple times and called a bunch of names and was "challenged" to post one fake review.
I provided a list of reviews, and undoubtedly I'll provide more when needed and also as I make more and more entries in my database.
Four of those six reviews are right under the accuser's nose, in socal/LA.
The ball is now in the accuser's court.
you have not answered the "accusation" that MAJOR established SoCal orgs have NOT done ANY of the things you are claiming. You're the guy that got a few bad meals at one or two places and then tells everyone to stay away from ALL restaurants, because they are ALL serving bad food, when in fact, you have no experience outside the BA. This just makes you look dumb when many of us are having consistently great Kgirl experiences two or three times a week in SoCal, with not a single hint of the major orgs we all patronize doing anything you are suggesting they do.
Your evidence is so limited, its inconclusive, and there are alternative explanations for the review content which you have not been able to explain away, or debunk. How do we know they were not written by mongers, whether they be shilling of just regular customers trying to help their ATF's. Apparently, despite claiming you know how to "spot" fake reviews a mile away, you apparently DON"T know how to tell the difference between a fake review and one written by a fan of the girl. You also don't seem to know who the monger shills are in the BA. I would think this would be the first thing you would have established before attributing a review to a booker/org.
LMAO. You want a review signed by the booker to have full proof it was done by org ? Maybe you want his/her name on the review too saying that an org wrote it? How else is one supposed to prove that they were written by an org ?
Oh I get it, maybe I wrote those reviews to make it seem like they're fake ?
LMAO.
You're dipping lower and lower by the second. I feel bad I even tried proving something to you, because clearly you have an interest in making orgs all white and fluffy and innocent.
LMAO is a cover for those that knew they have been called out and are losing the argument. Saying I'm dipping lower and lower is projection of your own insecurities over being exposed here as a fraud. You're the one scrambling to try to cover your tracks. The audience here is much more sophisticated, so the shit you spouted on the other board you came from may have had some traction there, but the guys and gal(s) here are too smart.
I'm still waiting to hear how you think you can link an unsigned review to an org WITH CERTAINTY. If you can't, its just speculation on your part. It sounds like you have NO basis for your claims since you are admitting that unless the org signs it, there is NO way to prove it was written by an org. So at best, you are speculating about the orgs, and at worst, you are slandering them.
I am not trying to whitewash anything, but I don't like seeing ANYONE falsely accused of something serious like this unless there is concrete proof. You're making a joke about the possibility that YOU wrote them, but since you didn't, if someone was here everyday saying you did, admittedly with any proof, because you just said that if they don't sign them, how else are you going to know they are fake, how would you take it with the daily false accusations? Saying that orgs wrote reviews because of punctuation or capitalization issues is just pure speculation. There are a lot of reviews written here by mongers who are not native English speakers, and so there are grammatical, spelling and punctuation issues, but that doesn't mean they are fake. They do the best they can, and I say kudos to them for wanting to share their experience in a review regardless of the limitations on their English skills.
So basically, if there is no signature of the org, I won't be able to prove to you these are fake reviews?
Nice. You know, on the previous site none of the reviews were signed by orgs either. So you would be in denial there as well?
These four reviews are clearly written by the same person. They are written for the same org. Each of these reviews in written in the same time period. Each of these accounts only have one review. They make the same mistake in the same phrase. They all are written uncapitalized. This is an incredible coincidence, don't you think?
You laugh about capitalization, but since you know and read all so cal reviews, point out some other four reviews to me that don't capitalize any letter. In any sentence. For the same org. Or even different org. Any time. Trust me as someone who sifts through thousands reviews in databases, it's going to be extremely hard to impossible.
The evidence is right in front of your eyes and you clearly don't want to admit it like a man. If I contact TER and they agree with me these are fake and remove them, will you admit it?
a signed review, that was the standard that YOU espoused. YOU said it is impossible to PROVE a review is fake unless its signed by the booker/org, and yet, you are not meeting your own standard, but still insist they are fake. I'm just saying that the legal standard to accuse someone of egregious wrongdoing like you are doing is "beyond a reasonable doubt." You are not even getting to a "likelihood" that this has happened. As long as its ALSO possible that someone other than an org or an employee of the org wrote the review, you have not "proven" that it was written by the org. So you are guessing, or speculating, and its reckless to slander another monger OR an org WITHOUT the proof. You don't have it. One way to do it is to eliminate the other "suspects." Then that ONLY leaves the reasonable inference that the orgs are the perpetrators, but you haven't even done that.
So again, if TER removes these reviews, will you agree that they are fake? I asked you a bunch of times.
There is almost as much disparity in how review scoring is approached as there are Kgirl mongers, and this seems to be at the root of why some here think there is way more shilling and promotion going on than what there really is. I have already explained my own numbers . . . .
7 - Below Average
8 - Average
9 - Above Average
10- Top 10% of all the girls I have seen
Others say average is 5, so above average for them is 6+. Many reviewers have never given an "appearance' score higher than an 8. For this reviewer, his 8 equal my 10, so comparing scores from one reviewer to the next is a fools errand UNLESS you take a look into the full body of his reviews, read the narratives, and can understand his POV when he is reviewing.
When I'm browsing reviews for girls to see, and I'm seeing reviews that seem disparate, as is often the case, I will start by reading the 3 lowest, 3 highest, and three in the middle. In the course of going this, I am constantly amazed at how often a reviewer will give a girl a glowing review in the narrative, saying how great she was and that he can't wait to see her again, and then gives her a score of 6-6. I will often ask, and will often get a response that he thought she was above-average, and that's why he gave her a six instead of a five. Fair enough. I once asked a guy if he had ever given a ten, and he said no, because he only has one to give according to TER rules. I asked why he thought that, and he said it was because it had to be "Once-in-a-Lifetime" which means he can only give a 10 to one girl. So unless you talk to other reviewers and get a glimpse into their mind regarding how they look at reviewing, and in particular, scoring, you really have no basis to compare numbers. I have always said the narratives will tell you way more than the scores, but there has to be enough content with details about the session. Any review with four or five lines of text is usually worthless, and I rarely read them. I just skip to the next one.
One thing about the 1 - 10 scoring on TER that I think everyone know but I don't recall anyone suggesting is occurring.
TER reviews both escorts and MP girls. MP max out at 7 no matter what.
I think in some ways it's best to think of that 1 - 10 as split between the two environments. Basically with 3/4 - 7 where the MP girls get rated and then 7 - 10 where the escorts get rated. Looked at that way any escort getting below a 7 is basically saying she really isn't an escort and should be compared to a MP girl.
This is more a hypothesis but I suspect it might be true and reflective of some underlying behavioral psychology that is present.
I would also say we might want to more any scoring discussion to a separate thread, unless of course everyone thinks the original point has been fully address and -- and from my perspective that conclusion is TER doesn't have any real problems to get all worked up about.
I'm loving TER. I'm not loving the arguing. Not my battle. For the record, Tiana is perhaps the sexiest kgirl in Nor Cal Wonderland. Me and Rocketbro and cool. He says I'm far too generous in my scores but he knows I'm pro-monger and mean well.
I appreciate CDL welcoming me to the Club.
Carry on...
Or at least it was when I asked it. lol
Back to your handle, and away from this stupid board battle. I wonder if back in the day 16 years ago when I first joined this site if maybe I should have taken the handle "FiveonFriday" or "SixonSunday" I will confess that "SevenonSunday" would have been a bit of an overreach, even in my youth. lol
Back to the board battle, I hope you know that Rocket could end all this by simply getting off his high horse and actually helping the newbs on the newbie board instead of being a poser who wants to lecture us about helping them. He would get a lot better reception here and people might actually listen to him instead of giving him all this pushback that he is getting. Yeah, I know I am wasting my breath, but I have plenty of breath to waste. lol
Why do I need to go to newbie board? I can do that, but this is pretty specific to kgirl agencies.
What is my high horse?
I've only mentioned that korgs tend to engage in two anti-consumer tactics, that I want everyone to know
1. Bullying mongers by bl them for writing honest reviews with low scores.
2. Writing fake reviews. They did so en masse on other sites (while I don't like to involve twoon, you can ask him if there were fake reviews on the previous sites) , and while this site doesn't have a widespread issue, I've shown reviews which are clearly indicative of such behavior.
This is literally it.
Ps:now I'm pretty disappointed, I reviewed my atf and gave her 10 for performance but TER bumped it down to 9.wtf? Emailed support to change, and I'm kinda bummed. If there was any girl who deserved her 10, it's her.
Why the newbie board? Well unless you are changing your goals from helping newbies to helping newbies only interested in K-girls that's not a bad place to be.
Also, lol, if you did you might have notices something about how to get a 10. My guess is you checked off 2 of the items that allow scores above 7 but not 3. That is one of the things a lot of people think is a bit wrong with the scoring but it is what it is.
I haven't met a non-asian provider in ages (mostly due to the fact I don't give out my private info or pic to anyone). I don't know the dynamics and etiquette of independent providers and their reviews ,so who am I to teach about that? All I know its pretty shitty to laugh or look down at newbies, and almost nowhere but the monger board among my hobbies, that I check online, people do that. In all other places they are encouraged.
Most of my monger experiences are Chinese and Korean girls.
What is the third thing I need to check off? This system is unintuitive. My atf deserves a fucking 10. Lol.
EVERYONE says their ATF deserve the 10s. lol The truth is all of you guys are SOOOOO wrong. It's MY ATF that deserves the 10 and no other hold a candle to her!
The point about k- versus non K- newbies is that many of the same techniques will work for any review. Are you really saying newbies that don't support the K-girls deserve to be on their own? (Kind of rhetorical as I think the answer probably is not "Yes")
You're right that the things about finding and vetting independents is a bit of a different game than getting into the agencies (K or otherwise but K seems to be the hardest to break into). I also am primarily K agency -- one C agency here and had a rep for being what I'd call 2nd or 3rd tier so never ventured there.
Back to scoring
"8. In order to keep our overall performance ratings consistent, we set up the following system: An escort provider is only eligible to earn up to a 7, unless she performs one or some of the following during a session: Kisses With Tongue, Bare-Back Blow Job, Really Bi, Anal Sex, or More than One Guy. For each of these services that are performed, her potential max score is raised by one point, with 10 as an absolute maximum. Remember, it’s your review; within these guidelines you still get to decide what her score should be. You do not have to give her the ‘extra point’."
You probably clicked through this when starting your review.
Would guess you have BBBJ and DFK in your review but not really bi or anal. So best you can give is the 9.
And this is the type of stuff that gets both very helpful responses and very patient and friendly responses.
Think of it as the Mr. Rogers neighborhood of TER.
Get to the General board and it's more big boy world and making fun of clearly stupid mistakes is considered legitimate help. It's not as much to be mean but to reinforce the that a big mistake and was very avoidable was made.
-- Modified on 6/1/2020 8:15:39 PM
duplicitous it is for you to make a big deal about shilling, promotion, and fake reviews, but when it comes to the girl YOU want to promote, you are here asking what lie you have to give to TERSupport in order to get her score higher than she qualifies for under TER rules.
You have managed to single-handedly destroy your own cred by trying to do what you are accusing the orgs of doing. To borrow an appropriate phrase from a friend, "Got Rope."
I'm not promoting anyone. All I wanted is to give one of my few atfs a grade I felt she deserves as a top performer. I agree it looks ironic, but I'm not an org rep or even a shill. She isn't a friend, I receive zero favors from the org, and I don't talk to her outside the deeds. I describe her pretty fairly in review so that newbies know exactly what they're getting.
And I didn't give any lie to TER. I will not ever lie about kgirl reviews. If I wanted to lie, I'd give my atf more than a 6 for looks. If it's their policy, then that's the policy. I just wasn't aware of 10 grade being equal to anal/threesome. I don't fool mongers over girls. I'd rather never see her again than to lie to a fellow monger.
Again, I'll agree that it does look ironic, so no argument there. About TER cred, whatever. Never wanted it. Bay Area mongers know that I provide correct info.
-- Modified on 6/1/2020 8:01:27 PM
-- Modified on 6/1/2020 8:07:46 PM
You said this . . . .
"I'm not promoting anyone. All I wanted is to give one of my few atfs a grade I felt she deserves as a top performer. I agree it looks ironic, but I'm not an org rep or even a shill."
So you are agreeing that a glowing review with high scores can be written my someone like you, who has an ATF that they believe is "deserving" of a high score, regardless of how other reviewers have ranked her. It stands to reason that if YOU feel this way, so do thousands of other mongers who write reviews here. Most of us have someone special, or come across a girl from time to time, who we feel deserves a stellar review, even if it is not in line with what other mongers experienced. Oftentimes, a provider connects with some customers better than others, and those guys walk away feeling like they had a better experience WITH THE SAME GIRL that others were not all that impressed with. So with this in mind, and your own feelings about wanting to help your own ATF, I think at this point it would be disingenuous to call most of these types of reviews "fake reviews written by orgs."
My own feeling right now is that you are on the verge of an epiphany about this subject. Don't let it pass you by. Embrace it and you will be on the same page here as most others.
If you think I view any glowing or positive review as a fake review written by orgs, you need your head examined, and probably enroll in a remedial reading comprehension class.
An outlier glowing review of a girl with mediocre reviews is more likely to be a review by an org, but it certainly does not mean anything just by being an outlier. A glowing first review of a new girl is even more likely to be a fake review, but again, it does not mean anything until further analysis is applied.
A rebuttal review of a mediocre review for a new girl raises that likelyhood by a ton, because rebuttal reviews are done either by huge fans of the girl (but who is a huge fan of the girl in the first few days?) or org shills trying to help the business. A rebuttal review requires a lot of investment in the girl or the org. Not to mention, if you agree that people's experiences are always different, you should agree that rebuttal reviews don't make any sense and should not exist at all. Because you never know what the other monger experience was like,so it make sno sense to say "he is wrong".
I never said just because I've had a bad experience, someone else can't have a good or even glowing one. And vice versa. If someone gives my atfs a low score and warns others to not see them, I'm absolutely and utterly fine with it. As long as their reasoning is honest and consistent with their experience, I'm for it. I'm for giving any monger, without any vip access, as much information to make informed decisions as possible. Publicly.
The reason why I got pissed is because I put performance as one grade and it got downgraded. I've never encountered a review system that adjusted the final rating before, for you. Now I understand how it works, I don't have a problem with it
I told you to go to the newbie board when you brought your crap to the GD board. Here is the proof
Now as far as the review you are talking about, that happens all the time, and is hardly confined to K-girls. If a girl does NOT engage, (not just offer) in anal, or unless there are more than two people in the session TER rules do not allow a ten for performance, yes it's a stupid fucking rule, and yes it pisses off reviewers of all kinds, not just reviewers of K-Girls
Sorry, what exact bullshit you're referring to?
I've only read the post you linked right now. That thread was laughing at newbies. I dont like when people laugh at newbies when they get hustled, that much is true.
While I don't think I have enough recent experience with independent providers, I will try help out newbies on this board. I only can realistically help newbies to korg/corg and amp storefront biz. Because that's where I am spending money and have experience.
I don't approve of anyone laughing at a rookie monger for making a rookie mistake and getting hustled, tho. Is this bad too?
Thanks about the tip about anal and 10 score. Well, that's fucking retarded. At least I mentioned her score in the review.
-- Modified on 6/1/2020 5:24:08 PM
Ha ha
I love your idea of six times in one day!
For my fortieth birthday present, I saw three different providers and went two times with each!!
Priceless!!!!!
YMMV
I started this thread to be the battlefield and distinctly said those that aren't interested in how this plays out can just skip this thread entirely. Unless Rocket can back up his claims pretty soon, I will probably start skipping it as well Lol
I gave you four fake org reviews when you asked for one incidence. What other claims do I need to back up? Lol.
reviews has a bad reputation for fake photos and bait and switch that predates your arrival here by at least five months, I don't think you have PROVEN they are fake. Your justification is punctuation and capitalization. I already explained to you that there are a few other reasons why those are common occurrences in legit reviews on TER, but you want to stick to your false, unproven narrative with these scant four reviews because its all you've got.
And do you really think Newbies are being taken in on Tiana by the ONE review you say is fake? She has 23 others. The only thing this proves is that you are grasping at straws.
You haven't backed up your claim on these four. Probably a bit early to ask what else you can do. Perhaps stop speculating?
So how do I prove that a review is fake if you don't consider obvious fake reviews fake?
The fake reviews aren't going to have a signature on them. You have to use your kopf and basic analytical skills.
Here is my question, if TER takes them down, will you consider it sufficient evidence?
Im willing to go and compromise here for once. If TER considers them fake, will you?
I dont really understand what Tianas fake review has to do with other reviews of her. My atfs had hundreds of reviews on another site, and most were legit. Around 5-10 were fake. The fact that I know my atf is great doesn't detract from the fact that 5-10 reviews of them were fake. Fake reviews of well reviewed girls are still fake reviews that should not ever exist in the first place. The biz provides, the customer reviews. Imo.
I have read maybe 20% of this thread (because there is so much there) but it seems like the question is " are the reviews highlighted by rocketqwerty fake" . So I spent a minute looking at the 2 Ivy reviews ( and it only took a minute) and I have no doubt in my mind that they are fake. They are cleverly done.
Reminds me of the fake Airpods I bought on ebay a month ago. Everything matched up and even the serial number on the box came up on Apple's website as genuine. I will not bore you with how I deciphered their fakeness but eventually the seller fessed up. The same seller had 22 other reviews saying "great airpods" before. The bottom line is where there is money involved, the seller/supplier/provider ecosystem will go to great lengths.
Rocketqwerty is who he is and coredelion is who he is. I know qwerty and coredelion seems genuine and this zig-zag between them will hopefully die down soon.
-- Modified on 6/1/2020 10:55:59 PM
-- Modified on 6/1/2020 11:01:23 PM
that they read like fakes, and I have seen hundreds, if not thousands, on TER just like these that were written by mongers scamming the system for free VIP days. The question that HASN'T been answered is Rocketman's assertion that these were written by an org. Until you can make that connection, then YES, they are fakes, but who wrote them? Lack of SPECIFIC details are more likely to be VIP-scammers than orgs. Orgs would know more about the girls and would put in more detail about her looks and service than are shown here, similar to the first example, which is from the BA.
I'm not sure the one and done reviews and accounts can be lumped in with the fake reviews for free VIP crap. Not saying it never happens but suspect that pattern fits a different narrative better.
I have PM'ed reviewers that wrote a review like these with scant details to ask them some specific questions about the girl and/or the session, and I ended up getting crickets, even after repeating my request several days later. Sure, there are some assholes here who never reply to PM's, but in my experience, legit reviewers are very good about responding, so based on my OWN experience with a large body of anecdotal data, these are exactly the kinds of reviews that fake reviewers use to scam free VIP days.
The point was that writing one fake review for VIP and then never writing another review or post to a board doesn't really fit the mold for gaming the system for free VIP. Maybe there were some out there that new either they would never have the ability to play or know they were going to die in 2 weeks so 15 days solved all they problems.
The guys gaming TER with fake reviews for VIP days are more likely to have a number of reviews, some of which will be legit and others fake for the VIP -- so I would expect those fake reviews a couple of times a month - or at least when they were not seeing a provider before their VIP ran out.
That's not the one and done pattern.
This has nothing to do with responding to PMs. (And, to be honest, I would not waste my time asking a one time reviewer anything about their review as I would already have discounted it to near 0 if no other reviews existed.)
So you agree that fake reviews happen on TER, and that they shouldn't exist. Cool.
So why do they still exist? If you read thousands of reviews like this and agree they are fake, how isn't it a problem on TER?
I'll tell you something. We had fake reviews by mongers on the other site too. You know what those mongers did not do? Write their reviews only once, and at the same time. The reviews would only be done once their VIP was up. In the case of 3,4,5,6 reviews presented by here, they were all written within days of each other (check the review ID), by the same person with different accounts, and never did more reviews again. This pattern is not something what a VIP monger would do.
And no, orgs do not provide detailed reviews. Most of the time orgs know to provide generic reviews, not detailed. Because if they are wrong about details, they will be called out. But if they write a generic review which mentions oh bt oh bbj oh nice FS, that can be any and every girl. What orgs would not do, however is mention anything that might prevent people from seeing these girls. Do they have a flab on their stomach? Does she only work the tip instead of the whole thing? Those are things you won't find in ant fake reviews.
Once again, you seamlessly manage to shift the blame from orgs to mongers. Well done. Orgs can do no wrong in your eyes and never can be proven to write fake reviews. It's clear what's happening here.
I can play this game too. Prove that these reviews were written by vip mongers, and not orgs? See how that sounds?
I don't sanction ANY fake reviews, no matter who writes them. I also said there have been guys writing fake reviews here for years to scam the system for free VIP days. Why do you keep forgetting where we have already had agreements? No point in arguing them over again. I never said there were NO fake reviews on TER, so you're trying to put words in my mouth. The only guys that do that here are the ones the think they are losing the argument, but I'm glad you recognize your tenuous position. If the only way you can perpetuation your position to keep regurgitating a false narrative, then you have already lost. The members here are much more intelligent than the site you came from and its insulting to their intelligence to try to tell them I said something other than what I said. They can all read and comprehend what's going on here.
This is what I am failing to understand about your claim. HOW can you be absolutely certain they were written by the SAME person using different accounts? If you're referring to catch phrases (all reviewers use them, especially Newbies on their first couple of reviews) and punctuation issues (I already told you THAT happens a lot with younger guys who are used to writing text messages and depend on auto-correct to fix it for them), that is NOT a compelling argument, IMO, its just speculation. If you are saying its because the scores are higher, I addressed that earlier today when YOU said you would like to give your ATF a 10 (which is the way most mongers feel).
Previously, you were only talking about monger shill reviews. Maybe I missed the monger who wants the VIP part. I don't remember missing it, but if I did, my apologies.
While I'm not 100% certain, I'm 99.999999999% certain. I already told you why. If you understand what writing style is, what diction is, how probability works and how entropy of text works, and spend a lot of time researching fake reviews, you would also see it.
Again, the probability of 4 reviews being written in the span of less than a month, all with lowercase letters, with same grammatical mistakes, same style, roughly the same entropy, all with one and done review, all for the same org that incidentally is known to write such reviews on other sites, is too much of a coincidence.
I already asked, if you read thousands of reviews, find me some with 4 all lowercase reviews for same kgirl and same org, by four different people who all have one review, in span of one month. Try. Any fucking area. You know why I'm so confident you won't find any? The probability of that is so low, I'm more likely to be struck by lightning right now in 100 degree heat than you finding such sample. TER has two million reviews. That is not a big sample size at all, and like half of them is historically old and most are for independent providers.
The constraints here are so narrow, that you'd find trouble finding one such sample in 100 billion reviews, much less 2 million, and kgirl reviews are but a fraction of that number. The probability is so low, it's more likely that a person writing these wanted to fuck the org over, than that four different people wrote those reviews.
I also have the technology to make such queries. Once I have all reviews for January to June , do you want me to run such query? We'll all laugh together.
Also, you do realize your reviews are well detailed and done with a certain style, that I and many others can recognize a cdl review? Most people can recognize a rocketman review too. Or a twoon review. And I can recognize a fake bad English review,especislly with samples I already have from previous site, knowing exact what this guy likes to write.
and I will agree to a certain point that some reviewer's writing style and grammar can be used to verify their reviews. I can usually spot reviews written with an alias as the same style as a regular handle. Lets say, arguendo, that these four examples WERE all written by the same guy. The girls are from the same org, which is already disreputable because of fake photos and bait and switch, so how does knowing a four or five line review is also fake further protect a Newbie from making a mistake. When this org first appeared, there were a few guys that PM'd me and asked me if I had yet seen some of the named girls there. I told them I had not gone because of reports of fake photos and B & S. This is an example of why its more important to have a network of fellow hobbyists that you can exchange intel with. I prevented these guys from getting burned and I had not even seen the girls, but I knew my intel about the problems there were from unimpeachable sources . . . . guys I have known for years who are adventurous when it comes to TOFTT.
That brings me to the point that I still don't believe this is going on with the major bookers/orgs that have been operating in LA/OC/SD for ten or more years. Org names change from time to time, but the booker remains the same and we all know who is who. Its the peripheral players, new guys in town and wannabes where this sort of con game is likely to happen. Personally, I rarely go outside the 8 main bookers that I have known for 5-10 years, unless I have reliable intel that nothing funny is going on and the girls are as represented in the ads. Those bookers alone give me access to about 50 girls on any given day, with half of them "permanent" SoCal girls with a large number regulars to keep them busy every day, and the other half touring girls, so there is always someone new. I mentioned before that the fact that many touring girls hit town and are gone again with NO reviews in a few days is testament to the fact that they bookers are NOT writing fake reviews. If they did, the girls might stay longer, but then they would tarnish their reputation with the fake reviews.
Accordingly, I will agree that it's probably happening, albeit on a much smaller scale than you think. If you have evidence that a MAJOR org is engaging in these kinds of shady tactics, I could be persuaded otherwise, but until then, my position is that the long-established houses are not doing this. They don't have to. They have a waiting list of girls waiting to work at each one, and if she's not getting busy within a few days, either she will leave on her own, or the org owners will suggest she go someplace less competitive. Many of the girls (Tiana was a recent example) who come here from the bay area are out of their league here. LA has the best Kgirls, on average, in the country and they are begging to work here. Its because Ktown is right next to Hollywood, we have great beaches, and a lot of good-looking young people for them to socialize with when they aren't working.
Now a question back at you. Other than Tiana, who has 24 reviews and many regulars (IOW, not a new girl that nobody knows), and other than the org on the second example, how many other orgs in the BA have you been able to surmise may be writing fake reviews to promote questionable girls? (I'm not talking about TER, because you just got her, I'm talking on the cesspool site you came from.
Networking is important for a newbie, sure, I don't disagree.
Personally I don't like doing it, because it evolves a guy into a VIP monger who employs a similar "get mine first" attitude, and others newbies are still getting fucked. I truly believe that being loud about something in a public place, be it forums or reviews, will get far more feedback in the long run and help more newbies than quietly passing pms. Just like public protests will get a reaction and help more than private protests. So I try to post any information I can get on a public place. Doesn't mean that its bad for newbies to do networking, up to them if they wanna do it. It's just I don't do it. Not being dependent is great too. Last minute booking, a pm would not be in time. But if the info is in a review or on a forum I can just look it up.
Remember how you wrote me a ton of stuff about tipping and young guys or whatever when I mentioned Hera being awful ? All it took is one big post about her on a hyper active LA board on another forum.Soon, a few people backed up my claim and guy who posts their lineups daily came out and said that M was waiting for her to leave. Wow, that was easy. Would this happen if this was just via pms? Lol. Publicly posted info forces orgs and bookers to play more fair, imo.
To digress...Kgirls love living in ktown, but a lot of them like to work in the bay, even for less $. Snow aka st laurent, for example, told me she lives in ktown but only works in the bay because people in LA are crazy but in the bay most are tech workers who are bored. And this is likely true. I honestly always thought what you said to be true, but now after I actually researched LAs kgirls, I don't see a huge difference. You guys have a lot of interesting options on human centipede site, I'll give you that. Kgirls, half of them I recognize from being bay or Vegas girls. I actually think service-wise we have ya'll beat. But I might be wrong.
Anyway, back to your question. Absolutely. All orgs did it, in some capacity. Sweet angels and alpacas (peach Cafe) employed bots, and alpacas reviews were memes as almost every girl had like over 500 reviews. How do you get 500 reviews for a girl who has been there 4 months? Lol. And sweet angels bots were actually writing fake reviews for the LA org I've provided fake reviews for. Sweet angels is ran by someone from LA.
Ebk employed bad English person to write reviews. Most other agencies would only do the first 5-10 reviews of a girl or so, and then back off.
And the site's admin confirmed it. Now, I will say that it was an arms race - ie everyone was doing it and even most reputable orgs fel like they had to join in, but imo this doesn't excuse the behavior. The site enabled it, but they took it way too far.
I'll reiterate, as long as there is no such behavior here, I'm happy. I don't see what's so bad about what I'm doing by being a watchdog for fake reviews here. If they don't appear, I'm happy, you're happy, everyone's happy. Let me do my Taxi Driver impersonation in peace, lol. Here's a man who would not take it anymore. Here's a man who stood up. Here is...
I just don't think that this is a problem in LA. I can't speak for other areas.
Fake reviews and shills are easy to spot. I don't differentiate between them as they are both equally worthless. The fake review problem to the extent that it exists is exacerbated by TER giving VIP credit for reviews. As long as this policy exists, there will always be an incentive to write fake reviews. Since it seems unlikely that the policy will change, i just ignore the fake/shill reviews entirely.
The few bad orgs/brokers are also easy to spot. They use fake photos from stock photo sites, Instagram, tumbler or lingerie ads. They either don't screen or do a half-assed job of it. They bait and switch, or lie about the girls. Again, there aren't many and they're easy to spot and avoid.
IMHO this is a non-issue.
Easy to spot for you, or for noobs? That's a pretty important distinction. It's exceptionally easy for me to spot fake reviews, but I also dumped more time into researching it and hobvtinf than many people dump in their jobs. What about someone who only seen one kgirl in their life and only read 10 reviews? Those guys start from the bottom tier orgs.
"They use fake photos from stock photo sites, Instagram, tumbler or lingerie ads"
Isn't this like majority of orgs? Lol. A. Lot of girls carry over their pics to different orgs. So if they have stock photos or lingerie model photos, they will have it in almost any org.
Is M considered a reputable org? They have two girls now that I guarantee look NOTHING like their pics, at all. It could be a picture of Ivanka on there ffs. Allie and Hera look nothing like their pics,and not even close. Face or body.
at least 7 years that I'm aware of, since that's when I started using her. She is the toughest booker to pass screening on, but often has some of the top girls in SoCal. I used her a lot up until about two years ago when she started getting a higher percentage of BBFS girls on her roster. I only did $11,000 with her group last year. At the height of my business with her, I was spending $40,000+ annually just with her group. She was in first place for getting my money then. Last year, she was 4th.
I know from my own experience that 90-day wonders usually show up FOTB with NO photos of the quality they need to work in SoCal. A decent photoshoot is usually $1000-$1500 and the girl pays for it, but then she owns the photos. Many times, girls coming here for the first time will have to work a week to be able to afford a photo shoot. Bookers don't have any choice (not just in LA but everywhere) to use another girl's photos that are relatively "close" for that first week until she hands over her own photos. That's one of the downsides to being one of the first few guy to see a FOTB girl. Its the girl's obligation to provide photos to the booker. If they don't, substitute photos will be used until she gets her own photos. Most of the long-time bookers make an effort to find photos that are a LITTLE less attractive than the girl actually is. I'm sure you have read reviews that say, "Photos were not her, but she was better looking than the photos, so its all good." That's the goal of the bookers until she delivers her own photos. In this instance, no one is trying to fool anyone with fake photos. Its just something that is usually done if a girl shows up here with no quality photos.
In the old days, they would sometimes have no photos at all for a girl, and just write in the picture box that photos are coming. The problem with that is that customers will wait for photos, and it further delays the girl getting them. The org owner will usually schedule a shoot for the next weekend so she has real photos going forward. If a girl goes more than a few weeks with fake photos, then she may have a stalker problem, but that's the only legit reason for continuing to use fake photos. I will usually not repeat with girls that have used fake photos for more than two weeks. If I know they are bringing fake photos from another city, I won't see them in the first place. Newbies need to be a little less desperate and learn how to do their research before choosing a girl. A lot of newbies choose using ONLY the photos, and don't do any other research. That's why they so often wind up with a girl who is not a good match for what they want.
There is no reason for a newbie to start at a bottom tier org. Usually, every major city has at least one org that will screen on your employment info (they don't really care where you work, they just want to verify you DON'T work for LE). The one in OC that does employment screening is Asian World in OC. sdasiangirls in SD also uses employment screening. The irony is that many of the newer bottom-tier orgs use employment screening as well, so why not start with an org that has better girls? Other orgs will ONLY screen on references, so that's not a good place for Newbies to start.
I don't know how orgs in LA work, but in the bay we have a few that essentially don't screen at all. This is how anyone who doesn't want to disclose info gets started, pretty much. Then you use those references to get into next tier, and so on. Work in a few corgs and you're golden.
So, yes newbies who care about their identity being concealed, start front the bottom. We have like one org in the bay that requires employment info, and it used to not require it either. The rest will ask for references and if they don't like those references, they will ask for ID.
Many newbies come from the world of storefronts, where no identifiable information is ever given.
in LA in the past 10 years have been at the same org. They do the worst job of screening, but are very popular with younger mongers because they were also the first BBFS house. LE tends to target PSE places because they consider it a public health risk, so they can justify additional police resources to try to close them down. Advertising BBFS and then having shitty screening is a recipe for trouble.
I have long-contended that the major orgs will not mess with your personal ID. The major Vegas orgs will usually ask you to text your DL as part of the screening process. They don't care where you're from as long as its out of state, which means you are NOT local LE. I photocopied my DL, then redacted everything except my name and my photo, figuring they would pass on me, but they called my hotel to verify that I was a guest there, and then when the girl answered the door, she had been sent my photo and verified I was guy in the photo before she opened the door. They should all do something similar to this, but it doesn't work with the locals, because they have Vegas DL's. There's probably some variation on this theme that would work for locals, but I don't know what it is.
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For Vegas, hobbyshop aka vac used to accept p411. I think they still do. Which, if you know enough, can be worked around. Or at least you could work around before. Not sure if now they check your social media. Before they just called your "work" and asked. So with enough imagination you could see how it could be worked around.
It's not about orgs doing something with id, it's about having your info on file. That is the problem for anyone who wants their identity hidden.
I've never given any agency or provider my ID or work info, and I'm not planning to. I've gotten into a lot of orgs, starting from the bottom, giving just age race first name and ocassionally occupation. Then I made sure to have different names for each number I've used, and I got references for all of them. At this point I have multiple numbers that have references, and all of them were started with just age race and first name.
Again, newbies tend to start from the bottom, which is my point anyway.
might not view your multiple numbers in the same light you view their pic.
Not saying you're doing something other than what you think you need to protect your privacy but surely you could see how someone with bad motives may well do the exact same thing.
Kinda wonder if this was one of those cases of STFU wasn't a better policy lol
I’ve found that, within the kgirl community, having one or two well known girls vouch for you is all you need.
When I contact a new k-org that requests info for screening, I just give them the name of one or two very well known girls who know me well (multiple 2 hour sessions). Then I let them know that I’ll check back with them (the new k-org) after they’ve had a chance to check out my “references”.
This has worked for me without fail for quite a few years. I’ve used those Bay Area references in LA and LV. As with so many things, it really does just boil down to who you know. I’ve used those Bay Area references in LA and LV. As with so many things, it really does just boil down to who you know.
I realize that this might not help out a guy who is just getting started, though.
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And this is why I always exchange phone numbers with touring girls. When they are in SoCal and I see them, I tell them I travel a lot and it would be great to see them when I'm in another city where they happen to be working. When I'm in another city where I'm not approved at the local orgs, I will browse the ads to find a touring girl I know. Then I will text them and tell them I'm in town and want to see them, but I'm not approved with the booker, and could she give the booker my phone number and tell him I'm okay when I text. It has NEVER failed to work. Once I see the girl I know, the rest of the week, I can sample the other girls from that same booker. If I see three or four girls the week that I'm there, the booker will keep me in their system for when I return. I have gotten into cities all over the country this way without ever having to provide an ID or reference. Having a Kgirl vouch for you is the best way to get in, but you have to have the foresight to exchange phone numbers when they are touring to YOUR city. Most touring girls have no problem with doing this (with the gentlemen, not the assholes - Lol).
It used to not be such a valuable resource for local girls, but the past two years, as girls have begun changing agencies within the same geographical area, it now works locally, too. Most bookers only have my first name and hobby phone number, but they know I see a lot of girls, so they keep me in the file even though I may not see one of their girls for several months.
I'm not against agencies implementing stricter screening, if needed. I'm all for girl safety.
Again, each number is vouched for by other orgs. All orgs know each other. I usually don't use different numbers for same orgs. Never had a problem. Many orgs already take a hidden pic of you if you don't provide ID/selfie. As long as customer pays and girls are happy with the customer, orgs don't really care. My race is true, my age is true, maybe my name isn't.
Sure, someone with bad intentions can use this strategy. It's not a secret which orgs in the bay don't screen. So, people can do that already. Im not breaking any new ground here.
No, I will not stfu. Sorry. The notion that most newbies divulge their info readily, is pretty much false. At least where I'm at.
Once upon a time getting screened as a new K-Girl client was harder than getting into a choice Country Club. Of course back then no one EVER got busted either as the K-Girl scene was a closed loop. I was only able to get in because of being a TER Mod with another TER mod and very well known K-Girl monger vouched for me. Using fake names, numbers etc just didn't happen not all that long ago, or at least they didn't happen in So Cal.
Interesting. I can tell my story. I got into agency Asians a decade ago. Back then it was kind of a wild wild west situation with new orgs popping up and disappearing weekly it seemed. Not many screened for real. I got in easy with just name age race. Was fun and back then there were a lot more short stay girls. At some point, I then disappeared from the scene for a couple of years or so dealing with a new job and new relationship, and came back two years later to orgs wanting to do screening in form of some identity verification.
I said eff that for my reasons, and went to my usual storefront amp routine. And few long-term relationships as well.
A couple of years back after fosta and San Jose amps were dried up by LE, and I was out of my latest relationship, I said fuck it let's explore the kgirl market. The first thing I've found was that there were now again a few lenient orgs that didn't really screen at times. It's like they came full circle. I got a confirmation and recommendation of that org being lenient at the time, and so it went.
The biggest "quantity" conglomerate org in the bay (which has 5 daughter orgs under its roof, including the one in my post here) screens pretty leniently most of the time.
There were literally hundreds of Quality Korean Girls, along with a few Thai, Chinese and Viet girls working at dozens of different AMPs back then. There was one hotspot out by the airport in the city of Jonesboro, It was so convenient that if I got the airport early or my plane was delayed I'd just hop in a cab for a quickie. lol
and like you I also ended up with a few LTR's that I developed along the way, but about twelve years or so ago, they closed virtually all of them down and Atlanta became full of guys with untreated yellow fever. lol
Hmm, whenever I go to Atlanta it feels like I'd be ordering sushi in a hamburger place if I were to look for asians, lol.
I just go ham on the strip clubs. Dayshift at the Follies is one-of-a-kind experience that we simply don't get here in Cali. Strokers. Body Tap (is it closed now ?). Some of those hole in the wall clubs would have me as the only white person in the entire building, also a great experience. and of course there's Magic City if you were trying to stunt. Good times.
Here, I think I can pick up a rock and throw in a random direction and hit an AMP. Problem is none of the girls are young. The AAMPs with indie girls might is younger on average and sometimes will be young and cute but it's too much YMMV and up selling/negotiation for me. Even when FS is certain, so older less attractive, it's not really that good.
I do remember hearing stories about the old days where it seems the AMPs were on par with what the agencies offer today.
The way to handle all the YMMV in AMPs up until about 2 years ago was to just use the place to find girls who might be open to more. It was amazing how many handjob only girls were wiling to go for DATY (providing, of course that you are willing to give them DATY, which depends on a number of things).
If DATY was really good the relationship with the girl would dramatically shift. And the two of you could decide from there where to go next.
This is how I met all of the girls that eventually went UTR with me. This relationship takes shape in multiple ways. It might turn into a sugar relationship. Or she might just want to remain a very low volume pro with a small group of guys she can hook up with at whatever frequency she is comfortable with.
I’m sure there are other options. But these are the only two I’ve experienced.
With the dramatic change in the AMP world that have occurred, I think a significant number of the girls who fall into either of the above categories are probably sugaring these days.