Since my thread was removed, I'll ask this again.
Imagine a regular Joe who doesnt post on forums, read reviews or research girls or do hundreds of reverse image search queries a day.
He sees a photo of girl he likes at an agency site. He has never seen this girl before. Unknowingly to him, this girl in pics is actually a supermodel he has no shot with. He books the girl. He arrives and the girl is completely different.
According to certain folks, this isn't bait and switch.
In context of a regular Joe who deserves as much respect and honesty by the seller as anyone else, how is this not a bait and switch? What would the girl have to be in order for it to be a bait and switch? Thanks in advance.
-- Modified on 7/14/2023 1:52:51 PM
when i first got into kgirls, the girl i saw used fake pics and she was nothing like the photos. but she was still hot and young. this gave me a not so good impression of kgirls so i only changed my mind after a mindblowing experience from a kgirl legend in OC.
yes you can argue that showing fake photos is b&s, but in the kgirl world, it's widely accepted that 90% of photos are fake or heavily photoshopped.
say for example if a kgirl is using fake pics (for example elle / venus, who is an LA legend known for her very well shaped body), but those pics + name are associated with the actual kgirl behind the door, and as long as i'm led to her door, and nobody else's, than i don't consider it b&s.
as long as everytime i book her, im seeing the same girl who is known for her well shaped body, and its that girl that opens the door, then its not b&s. if i refer her to my buddy who also wants to see her, and the booker misleads him to another door answered by someone else, THEN it's b&s.
How would a regular Joe - someone who has zero point zero knowledge of who the girl with fake pics is associated with - distinguish one girl with fake pics and another girl with fake pics. Provided he read zero reviews and has zero innate or preemptive knowledge?
That's kinda my point. What is the difference here to someone who isn't in the know and has no reference? Isn't just a bait and switch anyway?
Didn’t know Elle use fake pics til one day she told me they were fakes lol
Respectfully submitted for your consideration...
There's a Bay Area legend who goes by the stage name ATF Mina. We in the know are aware she uses fake glams; that being said, the kgirl who opens the magic door is HOT AS FUCK and equally talented.
YEMV
-- Modified on 7/17/2023 4:49:10 AM
It doesn't make it any less of a bait and switch.
Say a young guy 25 years old just gets in this game has zero knowledge of anything, blank state tabula rasa. He doesnt know who Mina is or how she looks. He doesn't know it's Mina behind the door or another girl instead of her. To him both cases would just present a bait and switch, no?
I would not think so. The classic bait and switch is offering something on sale but not having any in stock. When the customer comes in they are directed at some similar item that is not on sale. Customer is not happy. Might not realize they were ripped off, since they think "I made the trip, silly to leave empty handed."
Offering a similar alternative, at the same price, is not going to be considered a situation of bait and switch as the customer is not really harmed in that case.
A bait and switch can be anything where the original product is substituted for. If you get a jaguar instead of a Camry, that's a bait and switch too. Maybe I wanted something that is far MORE fuel efficient and something that can fit a family.
The key point is you're not getting the product that is advertised or is intended to be sold.
And a newbie to the game, how does he know if the older gal he sees is the one associated with the pics or just some older gal? He doesn't! He can't know without having some pre-existing knowledge. He knows he got BAITED by pics and SWITCHED.
-- Modified on 7/17/2023 9:12:42 PM
Feel free to make up the definition you wish but at least acknowledge it is non-standard.
http://www.britannica.com/topic/bait-and-switch
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bait%20and%20switch
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bait-and-switch
http://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/bait%20and%20switch
http://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/bait_and_switch
http://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/what-is-bait-and-switch.html
You'll note that the common element among all the definitions here is the general result of the consumer being harmed in someway by the switch. That is pretty much what both the other posters commenting on what constitutes B&S seem to agree with these standard definitions of the term to include some actual harm done.
If that's not sufficient to get you to reconsider continuing with this tautological argument, let's take your argument to its absurd conclusion.
I go into the local Chinese restaurant and look at the posted menu with all the mouthwatering pictures of dishes. I order the Singaporean Mei Fun. I get the plate of noodles and then start complaining about a bate and switch. Why, because the dish here is not the one they actually took the picture of. Now, since the menu on the wall with the pictures has been there for more than 10 years, it's probably a very safe bet to say the dish served to me is better than if I got the one in the picture but according to your argument that would be a bate and switch.
You might also look into the concept of Common Law processes and the Reasonable Man standard, as that has a direct relationship to the comments by the first responder to your post.
One of parts of bait and switch definitions you posted is that the seller has no intention of selling the advertised the product. That is always present. The advertised product is in the picture. The seller used that to make sure you got baited and then actually offered you something else.
I dont get why you cling to this one even though it's the least of the problems.
I really don't get it. The fact is, this bait and switch to a girl who is comparable to the pics or even better, happens very rarely and almost nonexistent. No one is getting that Argentian/Hungarian model or anything close when ordering her.
I asked how does a person who has no idea of the girl who is associated with looks, can distinguish between b&s and not b&s. Guess what? They cannot. They can just say that they paid money hoping to get the beauty that was in the pics and got a milf instead. They consider it b&s no matter the girl "association".
Respectfully submitted for your consideration...
No I don't think so.
We come and join TER to be informed; is ATF Mina's TER ID # 310819??
If I had written a review, I'd start off with fake glams but glad I came twice.
YEMV
-- Modified on 7/18/2023 2:42:28 AM
If that wet behind the ears monger books a Mina based on fake pics, and Mina opens the door, then said monger has been baited (false advertising), but he hasn’t been switched (booked with another girl).
The first responder to your question summed it up perfectly and is a reflection of the commonly accepted standard of bait and switch in this industry.
YES
Thank you for the assist!
I am of the opinion that many of us are willing to accept fake glams to protect the kgirl for various reasons.
However, we won't accept a land / sea hag opening the magic door. And if the kgirl has an ATF attached to her stage name, then skills need to be top tier.
YEMV
to understand. If Mina was advertised using enhanced or outright fake photos, and Mina is the one you saw, then it is not a bait and switch, it's only a bait. It's only a switch if you made the appointment to see Mina and the girl they sent you to WASN'T Mina.
Even Trimix's example with Elle admitting her photos were not her, customers nevertheless asked for Elle, and they got Elle, so there is no switch involved.
This is why, in creating a provider profile, TER makes a distinction on the drop-downs between, "photoshopped" and "not the same girl". If these were considered to be the same, as the OP argues, TER would not view it as two different situations. It would say something like, "not the girl in the photos" which is different than "not the same girl."
What if Mina has zero reviews and no one knows who the fuck Mina is?
How do you distinguish b&s and fake pics in this situation?
Agencies often bring several new girls at once. They all start with zero reviews. Let's call them Ginna, Sunny and Bunny and they all new and not rebrands who can be identified.
I go in and schedule with Ginna and the girl looks nothing like her pics.
Here's the million dollar question (AGAIN)
HOW do I know I got Ginna but she used fake pics
Versus me getting Bunny and her also using fake pics and thus doing a B&S
There is no review to guide me. There is no one in my private group who knows who these girls are. In such situation, it's the same fucking thing. And let's say these girls leave in seven days.
Did I get bait and switched on Ginna and got Bunny who is fatter by twenty pounds... Or did Gin a simply use fake pics??
So pray do tell me how to distinguish this situation
a TOFTT scenario (new girl, no reviews matching the name), so read my comments and those of CKS in the posts below on that topic. I take it that means you are conceding the position you were arguing before?
I'm not changing anything. Why are you so intent on lying?
This is the same fucking question I've asked multiple times on here. How the fuck am I conceding anything?
I've said multiple times, there are many people who don't read reviews and/or don't have access to private groups and can't or don't want to do research.
They are people who see pics want the girl in the pics and then go see the girl in the pics. Then they see the girl is completely different and label her a b&s.
You know why? Because they got BAITED and switched.
You still view it from a viewpoint of someone who knows all other girls in the org and knows how they look or can if Fer it from reviews. Newsflash - most people don't! Your regular Joe doesnt!
There is a reddit group called havefunhobbying. They don't have just have upper class lawyers, upper class wannabes and just old 60+ dudes. They have regular dudes who don't do too much research. They fuck everything including sws, videotape it and put it out. and many have strict limits on how much to pay for shit. Do you know how many reports of b&s they have? Everything that isn't true in the pic is considered b&s. Doesn't matter indie, Korean, Asian, Oakland blade, sugar baby or anything else. They don't read much reviews.
One more time, there is no way to distinguish your definition of b&s with fake IG pics b&s, without having some preemptive knowledge. Therefore, fake IG pics IS bait and switch.
misleading photos. A bait and switch means the entire girl was switched, not just her photos. Nearly all photos are photoshopped, which are often misleading, but if it's the girl who is advertised, by definition, it's NOT a "SWITCH." There can be bait (enhanced photos) without a concurrent "switch" to a different girl.
Once again I ask how does one distinguish between fake pics and "the entire girl being switched"? When there are no reviews of this girl at all?
No one on here, even when there were more posts (what happened to those btw), has answered this. Because it's impossible to fucking distinguish between them.
One more time. You go to an org and get a new girl who had no reviews to her name. You are given a different girl. If you don't have any knowledge about any other girls the org has, or most of those girls don't have reviews, HOW DO YOU distinguish them? Youve never seen the real girl in your life, you haven't heard about her, she herself may be gone in 7 days.
Not a single person has been able to answer this very simple question. Because the answer to this is - you can't. Sure, an established girl like Mina who has 100+ reviews is one thing. You can at least read the reviews.
What about toffts? The same atf Mina org often has three four girls who have little to no reviews and are using fake IG pics. If I go and see one of them and she (obviously) looks nothing like her pics HOW do I know whether it was b&s or a whole girl switched?
Please do tell. And that's me, someone who is monitoring reviews and rebrands like a hawk. Imagine someone going to an org for the first time, not reading ANY reviews or knowing about ANY girls.
it's pretty clear what I'm saying. Ask around.
If you are TOFTT, it doesn't matter who the girl is, IMO. If a booker says I have a new girl, just got here, but she looks hot, I'm willing to take a shot sometimes, but like I said before, the "disappointment" percentage goes way up, but when I'm in the mood for TOFTT, the thrill of the hunt is all that matters. Sometimes you find a diamond in the rough that nobody else knows about, and you can see her multiple times before she gets hard to book after word gets out.
The hypothetical wet behind the ears monger is baited when he goes in to see girl A. If the Booker pairs him up with Girl B, then he’s been baited AND switched. But if he sees A, he’s only been baited.
Now Rocket asks what if the rookie monger doesn’t know if he is seeing A or B? The answer is simple, the rookie doesn’t know if he’s been B&S. At that point, all that matters is what he thought of the girl’s appearance and if she gave him good service. Hopefully the rookie find TER and writes a review.
End of hypothetical. End of argument.
In a situation where one has no real knowledge then I agree, it's very hard for the person to really know if they were subjected to X -- in this discussion X = B&S.
However, the entire question being posed seem a bit confused from the start. I'll ignore some of the reasons why I don't let fake pictures bother me as long as I have some faith in the reputation of the agency and that faith as been reinforced over a sufficient period of time and just "for the sake of the argument" type accept the question asked. Why not just call the case of the fake pics simple, straightforward false, or at least misleading, advertising? No need to get into some silly detail about some bait & switch tactic. Why the dogged insistence on pushing everyone to agree it must be B&S?
Because - once again - if there's no way to distinguish b&s from fake pics unless you have preemptive knowledge, why wouldn't you use greatest common divisor?
Fake or misleading pics sound a lot more benign than bait and switch, that's probably why most balk at this concept of calling all girls who don't match pics at all, b&s. Once again, balking at the optics of someone being called b&s in public more than at the actual fact of getting a different product than one you wanted. Orgs, don't get mad at the optics and consequences of doing a b&s and being called out for it. Be mad at yourself for doing a b&s for your customers.
The rest of the forum seems to agree that there is in fact a difference between being bait & switched and fake pics.
Rocket insists on continuing to remain confused on the matter, and that’s his right and prerogative.
Some things never change 😬
There were two posters who agreed with me in this very thread. One said if the pics are far off it's a b&s.
One said he stopped seeing kgirls because of this.
Jensen seems to agree with me that no preemptive knowledge means there is no way to tell the difference.
Imagine a newbie in this game who hasn't read a single review and doesn't know any of these girls by names as we do. He goes to see a girl because he likes a Pic and then tells me he got b&sd because he got a milf twenty years older and twenty pounds heavier.
Am I supposed to say that's not a b&s? Do you think he gives a shit what the taxonomy is? He has a full right to claim b&s and disregard semantics bullshit that (oh noes) might make an org bad.
And as a newbie with zero knowledge about the game he has exactly the same rights as any of us. And he should be able to call spade a spade.
WTF is the dispute here?
Fake pics always suck. There used to be a time when fake pics were the exception here. The BS was probably imported from CA with a lot of other BS.
Though fake pics always suck, they aren't always bait and switch. One of my ATFs used to use fake photos, so I wouldn't consider that bait and switch.
But most of the time, in my experience, fake pics suck and are bait for a switcheroo of hot woman for not-hot woman.
When did rocket ever need a reason to argue?
I don't really know why he wants to try using me as some type of support. I agree that when one is ignorant of facts then knowing what the fact is will not be possible. How one goes from that proposition to therefore it is B&S I don't know. Really just another of the pointless arguments here for the sake or arguing it seems.
He should be able to assign bait and switch label to the entity that sold him the product and we better not hear anything out of the seller. He has the full RIGHT to say it's a bait and switch - as what he was sold was not what he was promised.
To client, he doesn't give a single shit if the pics were fake or he was assigned a different girl. The fact that he got a fat ass woman twenty years older and twenty years heavier than what was advertised alone akes it a bait and switch.
As such, client has the right to call it a bait and switch with the seller not having a single nerve to even protest.
So on client side, such situations are ALWAYS bait and switch. The seller is always liable and culpable. The seller - both the retailer and the supplier - can then argue to death or have a mudfight to see who is "really" at fault. But to a customer, it will always, ALWAYS be a bait and switch.
Those who argue that if I book a girl who looks like a 20 year old skinny model, get a 45+ woman who is chubby and I cannot call it a bait and switch, are drinking org kool-aid.
"Those who argue that if I book a girl who looks like a 20 year old skinny model, get a 45+ woman who is chubby and I cannot call it a bait and switch, are drinking org kool-aid."
Not one person in this thread has made that claim. Why do you keep on making up straw men as a fallback when most are disagreeing with your absolutism?
What absolutism?
What are you talking about?
So let me get this straight, 25 year old and 20 pound difference is bait and switch, you agree?
But let say 7 years and 7 pounds isn't?
Who establishes these thresholds? How does one know?
Again, I want to establish a criteria here.
Cdl accused me of not posting who I was bld by. I gave him some examples, including a girl who was a whole lot heavier and fatter than the one in the pics. More than twenty pounds.
What was I told? That it isn't a bit and switch. Where is the strawman here Jensen?
In this very thread people have said that fake pics isn't a bait and switch and bait and switch is ONLY if the wrong girl is assigned.
Fuck floating definitions. Give me a concrete definition using which ANY client can say it's a bait and switch. Go.
I asked for the booker(s) name(s). This is a really awkward deflection given the history of our exchange. So, you have examples of bait and switch, but you still won't give up the booker? That sounds like what you are bashing everyone else for.
Since you are covering for the booker, who was the skinny 20-year-old model, and who was the chubby 45-year-old you were switched to?
If you are going to keep tap-dancing, you should play a harmonica, too. Lol
-- Modified on 7/25/2023 2:00:19 PM
I named all the bookers who did b&s (according. To my definition, not yours) multiple times. Ginna was with AKD, something that easily can be looked up. Peach cafe, sweetangels, Asian angels all have done several bait and switches.
booker names. I named the booker. Why won't you do the same?
Are you fucking serious ? You think I know POs names in the bay? The only PO names I know l out of 15+ orgs I'm in is Joann and Dan. And that wasn't by them introducing themselves, just heard them mentioned. Peach cafe had alpaca but I don't think she POs herself anymore for a while.
Everyone else is simply a number to me. They never introduced themselves and I don't give a shit who they are where they are.
You must be delusional. Just because you know your bookers and establish relationships with them, you think I know POs?
Wow. Why would I care about a bookers name?
of the bookers you know, just any bookers that baited and switched you to another girl. Why do you keep dodging? I named Booker Gray after I found out his name two years ago. If there were any bookers I used that I didn't know, I can just ask someone here by PM who the booker is for XYZ agency. If you know the name of the org, what's stopping you from asking a hobby bro what the booker's name is that did the bait and switch on you? All of a sudden, as an information hound, you seem to not know how to get information. How convenient. I'm sure there is some irony here somewhere. Lol Every time you dance around the question, any cred you HAD tumbles a little more. Don't tell me this is the hill you will choose to die on. Lol
Lmao
Booker share numbers here. How am I gonna ask what the fuck is bookers name if there are two three people working the phone?
When someone is mistreated by a McDonald's employee, people sue Macdonalds. Because they employ him/her and this represent the company.
I gave you all the names I knew and you still egging me on for shit I don't know and don't want to know. And unlike you I can name girls names.
You want a phone number, I can give it to you.
When I order a girl, cdl, I use a phone number that is on website and use a girls name. That's it.
A booker is equivalent to an org. How come cks didn't cite a cgla bookers name? They have multiple.
how the system with multiple bookers works. If a girl's ad is on several org websites, and you book her, it will be with the org whose number you called. The orgs do not reroute the incoming calls to a central number, so you absolutely DO know exactly which org booker it was. It was the one you called. So why not STOP making excuses and tell us who the booker was. Like I said, if you don't know, you can find out from a fellow BA hobbyist the booker's name at the org you used, and that's who gets the blame for your B & S, NOT the girls.
I have seen one of these phone logs used by independent Kgirls who are using multiple bookers. Each booker's booking has an ID that goes back to that booker, so that the girl knows which booker set up the appointment. Since these girls know which booker set up the appointment, if you still don't know when you walk into a B & S, ask the Kgirl which booker made your appointment. She will know from her scheduling log. The one I saw had bookings from four different bookers on the day I was there, and each one was easily identifiable. It's starting to look like this whole situation you describe is a figment of your imagination that you can no longer keep straight. You do so much back-pedaling you should be in SoCal soon. Lol
I'm sorry but you are special kind of stupid cdl.
Once again, I know the org, girls name and phone number I use.
Many orgs always use just one single number.
I can give you the numbers I've used.
I never cared what the bookers names are. They correspond to the number.
I would think you would want to know the Bookers names that B 'n' S you, so you can out them for the Mongers/Hobbyists in the BA.
Don't you think that would go along with your agenda to expose the bad practices of the Bookers?
Booker is a rep of the org. So I expose the ORG
What the fuck are you talking about?
You trying to say that orgs with several bookers play good cop bad cop?
I couldn't give any less shits about a bookers name. It's a job that mostly can be done by AI anyway. Can name them dummy1 and dummy2
When I warn of b&s, I mention the org.
It's so convenient for you and cdl that booker gray is both bookers name and the org name.
But you know what, I heard Tiana POs her own girls.
So here you go cdl, badger:
Tiana, the boss and allegedly PO of SweetAngels in the bay have bait and switched me before.
But it doesn't matter who the po is.
Heres something to know, badger. The practice of knowing a bookers name is popular in LA, but not in the bay. All your Kevin's, Tom, Gray's, Sunnys Michelles Tim/Alex's and so forth. That's LA. In the bay, we say "org name" booker. Except Joann and Dan San (this smug fucker got a karate kid reference lmao)
-- Modified on 7/26/2023 2:18:57 PM
B & S by Tiana, what is the name of the girl you thought you were seeing, and what is the name of the girl you were switched to?
Maybe I only know VIP customers in the BA, but the guys who I'm acquainted with know the names of every booker they deal with. You not knowing the names explains a lot about why you have so much trouble with bookers and orgs.
Sure thing, I saw a girl named Bambi who looked nothing liker her pics and had mediocre service and looks. I have no idea what was she switched to. SA gas plenty of girls who use fake IG pics and who only stay for a week.
Sounds great that you know someone who knows all booker names.
Tell you what, why don't you ask him to give a list of names corresponding to orgs, and I will gladly give you the names you're asking for. Many orgs have only ONE phone number so I will be able to match name to
And a reminder that I don't really have major problems. My bros do. Unlike you just because I don't have problems with bookers I don't think it's true for everyone and just ignore problems that are brought up.
Theres an org that's been great to me. I'm treated like a king. Yet same org is doing questionable things to other mongers. So naturally I will be on their side (mongers and bros).
My bros well being will always trump the orgs existence. Pussy is replaceable. My bros aren't.
I have to do with Booker Gray!
Where did you get that from?
I used him one time a couple of years ago and it was not a B&S.
Actually, it was the real pics for the Kgirl!
I just thought you would want as much info on who's doing wrong in the K scene and get it out to the people you say you're protecting!
I guess I was wrong, and I guess you pick 'n' choose!
Good cop, bad cop? Where did you pull that out of?
You almost always throw out stuff that are not in my posts!
Just stick to replying to what I actually post/ask, ok?
If it's confusing at times, just let me know and I will clear it up for you.
Nonsense. Why would I care about bookers name?
No one in the bay says I got b&sd by booker John.
We all say we got b&sd by an org.
A org usually has a dedicated booker or two. Most orgs in the bay have one phone, for larger orgs that are more spread out there's a second phone or an emergency line.
That's it. We can mention the phone. But bookers are the same as orgs in nor cal
Whats confusing to me is that you seem to not understand how booking works in nor cal. There aren't five bookers booking the same girl.
For 99% of girls when they are up here they are booked by bookers whose ONE org she's in.
And usually it's one person working the phone.
you throw your tired, repetitive rant my way.
I asked you to reply to what I write in my posts, not ignore them and give me an older answer, or an irrelevant answer, that has nothing to do with the newest post.
Are you even reading them?
Get worked up much?
A while back you said that you misspelled words and added punctuation to fool the auto check, so your posts had a better chance of being posted without going through the moderators.
I have no idea if the system works that way, IIRC, that's what you said about posts being approved.
After reading your posts for quite a while, and thinking about it, I can see you all bent out of shape and pounding away on that poor keyboard!
If you won't give it a rest, at least lighten up.
I would like it if you would use your power to find Kgirls on ISO's much better!
I guess I'm out of favor, or don't count, because you never replied to my last ISO.
I guess I'm not a Bro (God damn, I hate that lame term)!
So maybe I'm glad not to be a Bro, but I am a Monger in need sometimes!
It's probably still on the first Kgirl page, it was for Adele.
I know the girls can't always be found, so an "I couldn't find her Badger, sorry", would have been really appreciated!
I guess/hope EOM!
I didn't ask for any Booker, Korg or AI names!
Why tell me, especially in the BA?
But you do like to twist, eh Chubby?
Google it, if you need to know!
I could care less about this B n S BS!
I have my game down pretty good and if I get caught up in something, if I can use a TER review phrase, I'm one and done, with that Korg/Booker!
You said that you would think I would know bay area bookers names to steer people away.
There's a pretty clear implication there.
And I don't see why the fuck would anyone need to know the bookers name.
Theres a customer, org number and girl.
That's it! Customer shops around finds a Pic he likes and orders a girl and is scheduled.
That's it! I don't give a shit if there's thee bookers behind the scenes doing phone sex with each other. I don't care who the booker is. Often bookers switch and change orgs. Who the fuck knows.
Customer doesn't give shit either. If he got b&sd, org and girl are at fault. Period.
Customer doesn't give a single FUCK whose fault it is among the org workers.
The end result is that customer got bait and switched. Period.
"Give me a concrete definition using which ANY client can say it's a bait and switch." That is absolutism in this context.
Why? Because for something to really be considered B&S there must be a case of consumer harm, not merely some differences between the ad and what is available when the shopper shows up. That is going to be a subjective situation because different people will have different levels of sensitivity and expectations going in. That has been demonstrated in this very thread.
Fake pics are fake pics. Fake pic != Bait and Switch. Some Fake pics are B&S but not all. Logically:
Some p are q
p
therefore
q
is not a logically sound argument.
I'll let CLD clarify if you're characterization of his statements is one he agrees with or if he wants to correct that. I don't think he was trying to say what you claim though.
As for the example you suggested, seems like the simpler characterization is "misleading" advertisement so why keep pushing the more complicated tactic of a bate and switch claim? What in the world is gained by demanding others agree with B&S being the right description? What would you loose by saying, "yeah that does seem simpler" or "okay, we prefer different terms"?
Sorry rocket but your position here just seems like argument for the sake of arguing. Now I'll try to go back to my personal goal of not letting myself get dragged into these long running and pointless exchanges with you.
It ceases to be bait and switch?
Lmao.
This is exactly why I want a criteria. Do you know how rules are made, Jensen? Exactly to establish what is wrong or not. Consumer protection laws, among others nclude very specific definitions.
I want a concrete criteria BECAUSE I want sellers engaging in that tactic feel when a client is dissatisfied with ever single bone in their body, not just get a slap on the wrist.
By saying it's basically a judgment call from a buyers side makes no sense.
You talk about logical argument, but the act of bait and switch is independent of whether someone is OK with it or not. In-de-pen-dent.
By your definition, a scam isn't a scam unless it's deemed harmful to the buyer. No Jensen, a scam is a scam. It's a scam no matter the price, the impact or anything else. It's even a scam if the scam didn't go through. The intent to scam is more than enough to indict in many cases.
You and others simply want it flexible because you employ see no evil hear no evil strategy.
That's the only reason I can think of why you wouldn't want this criteria. Because to someone who wants transparency, honesty and equal treatment of all mongers, it's very important to know when they're not receiving what they're told they will receive.
The reason why YOU want to say bait and switch is fake pics is to downplay the impact. Because fake pics sounds nicer and more benign than b&s. And the org defenders have canned excuses as to why fake pics are done.
There is no pre-req for someone to know which girls is which or read any reviews to be able to declare a bait and switch and not just fake pics. I'll repeat as many times as possible.
If you're a noon and get something that you didn't order, you call it bait and switch. Period.
-- Modified on 7/25/2023 3:40:34 PM
-- Modified on 7/25/2023 3:51:14 PM
I'll give you a hint. We have lots or rules, regulation and laws in place. We have a legal system of courts and standards of evidence that are all in place to help apply those "cut and dry" rules to each and every case. Very seldom does a case got to court that doesn't look a lot like all the other cases that have been or are currently being charged with some violation. Odd that not all of them are guilty findings. And yes, the lawyers and others debating the matter very often argue about the actual meaning of the rule and how it does or does not apply to the specific case.
Social rule, which is what rules about acceptable and unacceptable behaviors (be they civil or criminal), are messy.
Your absolutism strikes a third time -- ump calls the out.
Wilful ignorance?
I asked you a simple question.
Does bait and switch of a woman twenty years older and twenty pounds fatter with fake pics cease being bait&s simply because customer is content with it?
So for one customer it's a b&s, and for another it's not?
Seems your answer is always "it's on case by case basis". And I'm calling out that bullshit
Calling scam a scam even if it does no perceived harm, isn't absolutism. It's common sense.
But you want to hide behind some interpretation somehow. That shit doesn't make sense. Bait and switch isn't a schrodinger cat.
Does a "Nigerian prince" scam cease being a scam because someone scammed by it is fine with losing money? Rhetorical question because no, it doesn't.
There is nothing absolutist about wanting a strict criteria or algorithm to go by. It will cause much more clarity in indictment of orgs transgressions. But that is somethingy you don't want to see, I get it.
When a monger in NoVa had his pii distributed for secretly filming a girl?
Was there a round table discussion, interpretation, lawyer and a jury?
Whats that? No? The orgs just decided fuck that guy and asked a known client to distribute it huh
Yeah nothing absolutist about that. He was deemed guilty and that's that because orgs can do hwteve the fuck they want. And deal with monger transgressions any way they want.
But whenever it comes to determining org transgressions, any criteria is absolutism.
Ugly double standards. Ugly ugly double standards.
A scam is always a scam, Jensen. Calling it such isn't an absolutism. Calling it absolutism is just demagoguery - like you say, arguing for sake of arguing.
If you think bait and switch of same girl who is far from what was promised, isn't a bait and switch if one monger is OK with it and is b&s if another isn't ok with it, I'm not sure whats there more to argue.
Might as well go full Orwell with it.
http://www.nycbar.org/get-legal-help/article/consumer-law/false-misleading-advertising/ and http://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/what-is-deceptive-advertising.html might clear up your confusion on the term and use of bait and switch versus misleading/false advertising. Hint, the former actually requires some that steers you away from what was offered in the ad to somethings else. False advertising only needs one good/service that is materially different and inferior to what is claimed/implied in the ad.
As for the rules, these boards are moderated and state some behaviors that TER doesn't want to see. Not everyone agrees that a thread or a post that is removed should have been, or that a thread or post that remains should. But some get removed, often at the request of one of the TER members. Clearly stated rule but not a clean and clear application because it involves that assessment of a bunch of different people to define where that line between a legitimate exchange and flame wars might be.
-- Modified on 7/26/2023 11:11:47 PM
Yes Jensen, the pic of a supermodel who sometimes isn't even Asian is the bait.
The switch is when the actual girl shows up.
It's just in other industries you cannot be as blatant about a bit and switch.
And one more time, a scam doesn't cease being a scam if someone is content with it.
Bill Gates probably doesn't care much that he got duped into signing a check to a sick kid who is a fraud.
That doesn't mean it's not a scam.
I have no idea what you wanted to say about forum rules. Moderation is a judgment call and enforcement of the rules is at a call of those doing the enforcements.
The problem begins when you people hide behind "case by case" basis to create an agenda to deny wrongdoings and twist it however they want.
In exact sciences, exact algorithm and EXACT criteria, can't do this.
If you bait and switched, you bait and switched. Showed one product without any intention of selling it. You bait and swirched. The end.
I am not a frequent poster here but have long term experience w providers dating back almost 2 decades. Make whatever of that you want but I have been biased by the good times of days old and not willing to settle, so have stepped out of the game
I have stopped seeing most k girls last few years for this very reason
There were a few legends like bulma etc where pics were real even though touched up but still in real life they were often better looking than pics
Lately, I have been burnt even in cases where glowing reviews claimed “run don’t walk before she leaves town” etc etc only to find a totally different person and sub standard at that
If it was just about the similar “ product” then anyone is fine lol ?
Then why even bother with pics - just say a woman will open the door and we promised you a woman so here you go, now don’t complain that it is a different one
I'm okay with stolen pictures so long as they're representative. If a hot girl is at the door who looks reasonably close to the hot girl in the pictures in form, fitness, etc., I'm a happy customer.
In my book, the real sin is when the pics aren't even in the same universe. A tight girl with big, round tits in the ad, but a dumpy girl with small, sagging tits answers the door? I fell victim to B&S.
mongers think. Photos are rarely exact, whether it be from photoshopping to but a Latina butt on an Asian girl, of an inflation of two cup sizes, it's just the eye candy that peaks our interest. There are even new girls who are "borrowing" photos from the booker's archive of past girls for a few weeks until she earns enough money for her own photoshoot. All of this has existed for years and most of us know it goes with the territory. If a guy gets an egregious misrepresentation, then he should walk out if he is so inclined. However, sometimes, the door opens and the girl is hotter than the one in the photos I thought I was going to see. In that case, I'm staying. Lol
"Reasonably close" should be the standard. The bookers will look at a new girl FOTB without photos and sort through their archive to find photos that are reasonably close, and I think MOST reasonable guys find that preferable to them just listing the girl's name, and saying "no photos yet."