There is more then one way to participate though. I started going to anti-trafficking coalition meetings. I have no money, no political pull or influence so to speak...just wanted to start participating and making sure to represent sex worker rights. Networking and just getting involved as an individual can make a difference all on it's own too.
By a vote of 93-0. It could be overturned in the Senate, but its highly unlikely.
http://www.theeroticreview.com/discussion_boards/viewmsg.asp?BoardID=10&SortBy=DateCreated%20desc&SearchType=1&Author=mrfisher&DayFrom=30&DayTo=0&MessageID=109101&frmSearch=1
1) The clause excluding married couples (Sec. 11-14.1) can lead to prejudicial behavior by the police against ANYONE in ANY sort of extra-marital relationship with someone perceived by law enforcement to be a prostitute.
2) Sec. 11-18. This law could effectively make it a crime to date someone law enforcement perceives to be a prostitute. This law could also be interpreted to criminalize just being in the residence of a person perceived to be a prostitute.
3) Sec. 11-19. This definition of "pimping" could include anyone in a relationship with a “prostitute” that involves income or expense sharing; including partners, children, roommates, dependent parents, or other sex workers.
4) Sec. 11-15 Raises the penalty soliciting a prostitute to a Class 3 Felony, punishable by 2-5 years incarceration and up to a $25,000 fine. This is problematic for many reasons, including: a) this forces street-level prostitutes further underground and increases the stigma they already face: forcing them to turn to even more unsafe working conditions as they struggle to make a living, b) felony convictions not only put a drain on an already over-extended legal system, but they may result in job and/ or certification loss for many professionals including lawyers, doctors, government officials, bonded drivers/ security officers, and military personnel, among others.
-- Modified on 3/26/2010 2:28:05 PM
You hear and read about some crazy laws they have in other countries that don't sound right but this does not saound to much like the free American way!
Is this constitutional?
Don't even say take it to the PRB.
If my boyfriend fucks me....because we are not married, and I am a well known prostitute, my boyfriend can get arrested.
For all you single guys ~ if take a girl out to dinner and then for drinks and then take her back to your house and want her to put out ~ you are soliciting sex and could get arrested...cause see you PAID FOR SEX via the dinner and drinks.
This is all complete idiocy.
So, what do you guys do?
You don't stop hobbying and you see well-known, well established girls.
Just my 2 cents.
to challenge this if it becomes law. You're just touching the tip of the iceberg with these two examples. What if a prostitute quits and then gets a boyfriend? He's associating with a known prostitute (former but known) and could get arrested. LE will go crazy with such a law, they'll be arresting everyone. This is SOOO like the red-light camera situation that's finally being limited in Springfield. Who the hell gets these ideas and more importantly, who is sponsoring these bills? We need to find out who's introducing this legislation and vote their asses out of office.
The ONLY changes to the law were the penalties and the car impoundment provision. All the rest has always been there. I am no constitutional scholar but I think the scope of the "association" provision is pretty narrow. But, as I said before --
GET A LAWYER BEFORE SOMETHING HAPPENS
KNOW YOUR RIGHTS
HAVE A PLAN
What could have been a simple inconvenience becomes a life altering event. The only thing that changes is people that have been to school for 8 or more years to get a professional degree can now loose their careers (profesional license). Well of course it effects more of us then that but you get the point.
Doc
we should have pooled resources and hired a lobbyist to fight this crap.
"We were told the Cook County State's Attorney's office was AGAINST it, but they didn't testify".
As I said before passing a Bill is one thing to force the Law is quite Different. If Cook County Attorneys office was AGAINST it then they might not enforce it either or wont throw the book at you at least on the first offence..
Dupage and Will County might be a different story.
If passed, this bill will raise the penalty for patronizing a prostitute to a Class 4 Felony on a first offense, resulting in potential job and/or licensing loss for many professionals. It will also raise vehicle impoundment fees to $1000,
I guess its time to move out of Illinois if this becomes the Law. Doctors and Lawyers can loose their Licens that will be 50% of the clients.
I am very surprise this passes so smoothly knowing the widespread consequences on the providers and hobbyist.
Actually this law will effect anyone who holds a professional license of any kind in the state of Illinois. Below is a partial list that you can find at the Illinois department of professional regulation (IDPR) of jobs that require a license. One of the first questions asked when applying for or renewing a professional license is if you have been convicted of a felony.
Accountant Public Cont. Ed. Sponsor
Accountant Public Firm, License
Accountant Public, Licensed
Accountant Public, Registered Certified
Acupuncture CE Sponsor, Approved
Acupuncture Guest Instructor
Acupuncturist, Licensed
Adv Practice Nurse Control Sub
Advance Practice Nurse
Alarm Contractor Agency Branch Office, Licensed
Alarm Contractor Agency Private, Licensed
Alarm Contractor Private, Licensed
APN CE Sponsor
Appraiser, Associate Real Estate Trainee
Appraiser, Certified General Real Estate
Auctioneer, Exempt Associate
Audiologist, Licensed
Barber School, Licensed
Barber Teacher, Licensed
Barber, Licensed
Basic Classroom Training Course
Chiropractic Physician, Licensed
Chiropractic Preceptor
Chiropractic Preceptor Program
Chiropractor Professor, Visiting
Collection Agency Branch Office, Licensed
Collection Agency, Licensed
Controlled Substance Drug Dist, Licensed
Controlled Substance
Controlled Substance, Pharmacy, Licensed
Cosmetologist School Public, Licensed
Cosmetologist Teacher, Licensed
Cosmetologist, Licensed
Cosmetology Clinic teacher
Cosmetology Registered Salon/shop
Cosmetology School, Licensed
Cosmetology CE Sponsor
Counselor Clinical Professional Temporary, Licensed
Counselor Clinical Professional, Licensed
Counselor Professional Cont. Ed. Sponsor
Counselor Professional, Licensed
Counselor Professional, Temporary, Licensed
Dental Hygienist, Registered
Dental Sedation Permit
Dental Teaching License
Dental Temporary Training, Licensed
Dental/dental Approved Hygienist Cont. Ed. Sponsor
Dentist, Licensed
Dentist Controlled Substance, Licensed
Dentistry Specialist, Licensed
Design Firm Professional Registration
Detection Of Deception Examiner,
Detection of Deception Trainee
Detective Private Agency Branch Office, Licensed
Detective Private Agency, Licensed
Detective Private, Licensed
Dietitian, Licensed
Drug Distributor, Licensed
Electrologist, Licensed
Engineer Intern
Engineer Professional, Licensed
Engineer Structural, Licensed
Engineer Structural,Intern
Environmental Health Practitioner In Training
Environmental Health Cont. Ed. Sponsor
Environmental Health Practioner, Licensed
Esthetician School, Licensed
Esthetician Teacher, Licensed
Esthetician, Licensed
Esthetics Clinic teacher
Euthanasia Agency, Certified
Euthanasia Technician, Certified
Firearm Control Card
Firearm Training Course
Funeral Director, Licensed
Funeral Director and Embalmer, Licensed
Funeral Director and Embalmer Intern, Licensed
Genetic Counselor, Licensed
Genetic Counselor, Temporary
Geologist, Professional Licensed
Home Inspector
Home Inspector Education Provider
Home Inspector Entity
Home Medical Equipment & Service Provider
Interior Designer, Registered
Interior Designer, Registered Residential
Land Sales Developer
Land Sales Subdivision
Land Surveyor in Training
Land Surveyor, Professional, Licensed
Locksmith Agency Branch Office, Licensed
Locksmith Agency, Licensed
Locksmith, Licensed
Mail Order Ophthalmic Provider
Marriage and Family Therapist, Licensed
Marriage and Family Therapy Cont. Ed. Sponsor
Massage Therapist CE Sponsor
Massage Therapist, Licensed
Medical CE Sponsor
Medical License, Temporary
Medical Temporary License, Limited
Medical Corporation Registered
Nail Tech Clinic Teacher
Nail Technician School, Licensed
Nail Technician, Licensed
Nail Technology Teacher, Licensed
Naprapath CE Sponsor
Naprapath, Licensed
Nurse Practical, Licensed
Nurse Registered, Professional
Nursing Home Administrator Temporary, Licensed
Nursing Home Administrator, Licensed
Nursing Home Approved Administrator Cont. Ed. Sponsor
Nutrition Counselor, Licensed
Nutrition/Dietitian Cont. Ed. Sponsor
Occupational Therapist
Occupational Therapy Assistant, Certified
Occupational Therapy CE Sponsor
Optometric Limited Residency License
Optometrist Ancillary Office, Licensed
you get the point.
Doc
The list dosent have Lawyers so they dont need a License to practise.
I agree with you it will affect lots of lots of professionals. Passing a law is one thing implementing the law is quite different..
a bunch of blank marriage certificates and fill them out each time I see a lady.
Are you saying a marriage person will be treated differently then a Single person.
As well. I believe bigamy and plygamy is also illegal.lol
I have read the bill and it does raise the ante to a Class 4 felony to solicit or actually have a date with a "prostitute" for a first offense. Sounds like once I solicit I may as well go all the way, I'm a felon waiting to happen. (And what do I bargain it down to, indecent exposure?)
The only substantive changes is an impoundment provision allowing the cops to take $1000 for your car and divert half of the money to a worthy cause.
I do not practice criminal law. Many of the nonlawyers reading this could understand the system and how it works better than I do. For me, at least, it's time to get my own lawyer and see what he thinks of this. Illinois can't be the only state that has felonized solicitition. I'd like to know how this is really going to work, if I'm really putting my license on the table every time. I do think a felony for a first time offense of this nature seems extreme.
This is driven by people who think that if they scare away the "John" they can end the evils of sex trafficing. And who's on our side? No one.
and it works so well getting drugs off the street, right? What it really does is drive the activity deeper underground. On the positive side, we'll all be screening much more thoroughly now, won't we? If nothing else, we might feel safer with each other knowing that each side has checked out the other side very well.
Tom Dart must be creaming his pants in anticipation of his upcoming 'felony' arrests.
If a married guy writes reviews and it be used against him in a court of law?
To nutandbolt, your answer below -
To others, sorry to bear bad news -
You asked about a married guy - - no matter what happens with HB6195, a revw can be used in a divorce case ASSUMING you can link the guy to the revw.
As to a criminal case if some version of HB6195 is ultimately passed and signed by the Gov. (of which the current HB6195 is a step in the process), it doesn't matter if the guy is married or not, the legal question will be: ASSUMING you can link the accused guy to the revw, does the review tend to prove one of the elements of a violation under the criminal law as it is finally written.
So you look at what elements (points of proof) the State is required to prove "beyond a reasonable doubt" under the new law, and ask whether the existence of the revw, or language in the revw, is probative on one or more of those elements/points. [[see "relevance" described below from Wickipedia, which encapsulates the concepts pretty well]]
IMO this situation has very much to do with trafficking; those who value the freedom to frequent a SP will lose out because of the population's overriding revulsion at the human degradation of trafficking, and its increasing scope and extent, and its NEWSWORTHINESS.
{The $160 girls here due to trafficking - - BUT REALLY THE TRAFFICKERS THEMSELVES - - are influencing attitudes big time.}
I would suggest working on the Gov. now on a compromise on the penalty, because this bill WILL be passed; the natural constituencIes against it - - freedom "above all" lovers - - tend to be the very same let's-get-in-your-bedroom moralizing Republicans who will support the bill due to "family values" concerns.
Anyone with a state issued license will be VERY slow to take the risk of a bust. This will not stop store clerks and cab drivers from seeing providers, but those who know about the law and come to fear the consequences WILL be influenced, depending what they have at stake. Retirees won't necessarily be influenced.
Providers will be moving to other states because of this law, because the demand WILL be reduced.
It's anybody's guess on how much of a reduction we'll see after the busts hit the news.
p-bee
//////////////////////////////////
Relevance, in the common law of evidence, is the tendency of a given item of evidence to prove or disprove one of the legal elements of the case, or to have probative value to make one of the elements of the case likelier or not. Probative is a term used in law to signify "tending to prove." Probative evidence "seeks the truth". Generally in law, evidence that is not probative (prejudicial evidence), or doesn't prove anything, is inadmissible and the rules of evidence permit it to be excluded from a proceeding or stricken from the record "if objected to by opposing counsel." A balancing test may come in to the picture if the value of the evidence needs to be weighed versus its prejudicial nature
This is still the US and we are all presumed innocent. So here is my read if you one is arrested:
1. LE has to prove the lady is a prostitute
2. LE has to prove that the guy/family members knew she was a prostitute
I am sure the law will face constitutional challenges. I am emailing the ACLU so should you all.
to challenge this in the courts. We can't expect politicians who want to win elections to be brave and fight for what's right.
It seems to me this would be simple to stop. Out all of the hobbyist politicians, I mean felons.
This would certainly seem to put a damper on visiting ladies! Not to mention the potential loss of out of town clients for the local ladies!
The problem with a bill like this is, no one could ever survive a "Nay" vote politically.
Part of the problem is that once the time has been put into writing a bill, I think it is less likely to get people to consider other viewpoints...they don't want their work to go to waste, and have already gotten to a point where they have solidified their opinions. There is not enough visibility of those of us that *choose* sex work helping to shape how these bills are written in the first place. Some that support these bills are so focused on the ills of trafficking, and only see that side of it, that to have a few people show up or call in the 11th hour...it just isn't as effective in getting people to change their mind at that point.
IMO we need to figure out how to get our voices heard *before* these bills are written, and get more pro-active in how we combat such bills and other proposals. We need to help find the common ground we ALL have in regards to ending trafficking and protecting children while also standing up for our rights. To do this effectively, this means participating in earlier stages of the process, not just protesting at the end... While I know there is nothing more to do now ~but~ protest, that also just helps reinforce for some the "opposing sides" dynamic that gets us nowhere... It makes it difficult to identify our allies that might really just be about ending trafficking, and might support choice and rights, but end up being driven by the conservative/religious/end demand folks that ARE making sure their voices are heard in planning stages. We need a new model for going forward if we are to truly make a difference with sex worker rights.
True story: Toledo was looking at creating licensing for all adult oriented entertainers. I expressed my concerns to my city councilperson. He listened. The committee listened. They invited other sexually oriented business owners to a meeting to ask them what could be done to help prevent trafficking, and to enlist their help in the battle. An agency owner and 2 managers from a strip club showed up. They had shared great info. The committee listened. I think we are now going to scrap licensing and permits *entirely* as it was made clear that this would further hurt the people they were aiming to protect. People will listen...but it's easier to listen at the beginning. Had they already put a proposal together, then I showed up to protest? I'm not sure I could have been as effective.
Much love to you all,
xoM
Like how much jail time, $$penalty and job loss from current job or Future jobs too.
What other states have the same laws. I dont think IL is the first one.
If this become the Law I am out of this hobby, Penalty is too big to take any Risks. I cannot afford to loose my Job and spend time behind the Bar just to meet a well established highly reviewed provider.
this law should not really be that much of a concern for you. You must remember that these laws are really targeting the low end/low hanging fruit which are the areas where exploitation and trafficking are much more prevalent. Certainly it is *possible* to have this law reach beyond those areas, but it is less likely.
Only you can say what risk is acceptable, but I caution to keep things in perspective...
xoMegan
You will need:
1. to join or form a PAC
2. hire a polical consultant
3. hire a lawyer
4. start making contributions to the right people
5. Figure out what you can do and get it done - a lot of damage has already occurred
I am not speaking from some abstract perspective here, I am speaking from experience. The people that got Springfield's attention did so because no one opposed them.
HObbyists need to kick in some major dollars to make a difference.
There is more then one way to participate though. I started going to anti-trafficking coalition meetings. I have no money, no political pull or influence so to speak...just wanted to start participating and making sure to represent sex worker rights. Networking and just getting involved as an individual can make a difference all on it's own too.
Most things in life resolve around money. They probably wrote the bill to get more "Federal Funding" and help to crack down on human trafficking.
Of course we know the real purpose is to go after folks in the hobby.
I am willing to bet that the person who wrote the legislation was someone who was in hobby and has a grudge to grind.
ScaredStraight
Your post reflects great cynicism and a lack of understanding.
These days more and more women are in politics and the number of non-profits and similar NGOs (where women are historically much involved) has grown tremendously thanks to our tax structure and the great wealth of the top few percent of our population.
Those women care deeply about helping exploited women everywhere, e.g., remember the movement to save oppressed women in Afganistan.
Trafficking is a graphic example of human exploitation, especially of women.
Get used to it, cuz this isssue is on the radar screens of intelligent women everywhere, and their allies in politics - - men and women.
p-bee
This is starting to remind me of the war on drugs. People are always going to get fucked up, and they are always going to fuck. Criminalizing it only creates a black market where criminals flourish. Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems anti-prostitution laws may actually make trafficking worse. I guess all I can do now is hope that Quinn is a huge hobbyist and vetoes. The really messed up thing about all this is you just know that a lot of the politicians who voted for this have hobbied before and only voted for it because if they didn't they'd be accused of supporting sex trafficking by their opponent in the next election.