So I have recently been on the search for more submissive ladies. As I have found a couple but not as many as I would like  I have thought about a few things in the process. As a child in the 70s I remember mom cooking and cleaning while dad worked all the time.  He was a truck driver and when mom started cooking steak that night that meant dad was coming home from a trip. Now as I married in the 80s I wanted nicer things so my wife worked also. I did some laundry, changed diapers and cooked along with her.
Today it seems to me as that I have no problem with a mane finding his fem side it is almost reverse from the 70s. The gays (which I have no issues with) and sensitive males have come out of the closet and the dominant male has gone in the closet!  
If a guy says he likes to pull some hair and lay some pipe while he calls his sig other names they are savages...  What cant I change a diaper, cook a meal AND screw like a cave man?
SO many ladies I have met have said they can roll with that but when it is actually there "in their face" they withdraw.
Well that's my soapbox today, off to eat some steak, drink some beer and continue my search... (but I can still fold my own clothes, bring you flowers and change a diaper)

but many can hold it only to a certain degree.

What you also speak of is the rise of women, we had to step up because nicer things were wanted and were no longer laying low in a submissive roll.  I would say that women in general have taken on a more dominant role in the last 30-40yrs needing to pick up the slack and also roll on our own with single parent households.  Perhaps that feeds into it?  I mean we are asked to step up and be the man as well, so that leads to the more assertive nature that many ladies now have.

As far as the ladies having a hard time rolling with it....  What are you doing to them?  A true sub of which there are still plenty here is pretty much always ready and willing for the rougher treatment.  Bebe, I would say is the finest among us of that respect.  However many do not like certain things.  It is something you should always discuss with the provider before hand, what is on and off the table like what names does she not like to be called(I know this one is HUGE, the wrong name like calling her a WH*RE can turn that kitten to ICE) and what acts she is unable or unwilling to do.  I mean I have heard about guys wanting a sub and then 1/2 choking the poor girl to death, or spanking so hard he bruised or even broke skin, pulling hair so hard they pulled out hair.  None of those things are ok, even if they are offered it should be done gentlely or at least not to the point of leaving marks.

To those who are hell bent on leaving marks on ladies, keep in mind now everyone else has to see them and you now could cause unfavorable reviews for the provider because another does not like your handy work.  Sub girls should have a disclaimer, if you break it or damage it(bruise) then you have to buy it till it is healed(which could be alot since the normal bruise takes about 1wk to heal.  Be careful with your partner even if you want to take after her like a wild ape.

I guess in my case when I say they cant roll with it  I meen they become shy. I am a very kind persone (we met some time back), but like lots of dirty talk, a little forcefull effn, light spanking and some hairpulling... I never thought of the "names used" and thats a good point Sage! I try to relay this in the beginning and then when the fun begins its like they never heard a dirty wrod! Then they start to go into the regular routine... wham bam, chit chat and good bye...  And this happens alot.  I am just saying that if you are a providor that says they are "freeky or into this" then follow through... but maybe like you said they are naturally growing into the dom position...  My point was if I say to a guy in todays generation that I like it dirty and a little rough they look at me like I am an animal...  
(oh and I would never hurt, leave a mark, choke or do anything of that nature... just good ole dirty fun"

Thank god for woman like Sage. ..love me a go getter!! Love a won who is even a little aggressive. .yummy.  
Thanks Sage.  I know off topic. .my bad

that providers will say they have no problem with rough sex or being the submissive during booking but when the time comes to perform, they chicken out. He booked with her based on her telling him she was OK with it but then she really wasn't - and she probably knew this all along. There's dishonesty in an effort to nail the appt.

Now why didn't I say that?

There is nothing intrinsically dominant or submissive about an act.  People assign dominance and submission willy-nilly when it's actually about persona and interpersonal dynamics. Personally, I've been a lifestyle switch for over 10 years; I know a dominant man when one is in my face, and you know what? He's doing things that please THE BOTH OF US, not just himself.  He's concerned with what's going on with me as his partner.  

As a professional domme, "submissive" men that come to see me are just as responsible for their experience with me as I am.  If you don't clearly communicate with your partner what it is your looking for as a dominant or a submissive, things are going to go awry. What's happening in your situation is that you communicate something that isn't happening action-wise.  You're communicating "i want to dominate you", and what happens is you perform an act you think of as a "dominant" act when in fact it's anything but dominant.  Also, if you're going to perform an act that you're not entirely comfortable with or know entirely how to execute properly, you need to communicate that. For example, I love getting slapped in the face, but getting smacked in the jaw is a problem.  That's not sexy; it hurts and can lead to serious injury. I've had many partners refuse to do it to me until they learned to do it properly.  They were concerned with my well-being and didn't want to hurt me.  

Being "dominant" is not about pumping your load into a girl and leaving.  It's actually the exact opposite. It's about skill, finesse, communication, respect, and responsibility for the well-being of the person you're playing with.

Having rough sex does not make you dominant.  Face-fucking a girl until she gags and throws up does not make you a dominant.  If your want for these things isn't communicated about and agreed upon beforehand (rough sex/rough body play does not mean face-fucking), doing these things makes you irresponsible, even if you're not doing these things in malice or on purpose.

Side note: you should be able to fold your own shirts, change diapers, clean the house, cook dinner, and bring someone flowers who deserves them.  All grown-ass people have the ability to do these things. Having the ability to do these things and still be a "man" doesn't make you special. It makes you a grown-ass person.  

-- Modified on 5/14/2014 7:40:27 PM

...and more to do with dynamic and communication.  The OP seems to have an issue with communicating what it really is he seems to want, and from what I can decipher, he wants rough sex with someone.   I have rough sex with clients frequently; but when someone books with me asking me if i can be more submissive, which I can be depending on the activities which are pre-negotiated beforehand, and those pre-negotiated activities barely happen, what am i supposed to do? What we agreed upon didn't really happen because there was a communication breakdown somewhere, and being able to communicate more clearly and concisely could have saved both time and money.

Also, if the OP is seriously looking for a more submissive lady, often-times those relationships take time to build.  It's not a one-shot deal.

Lack of communication, taking time to build a relationship... Where have I heard those terms used before? Let me think, let me think...oh yeah, the SO. Like every day, ad nauseum, lol.

You just took a lot more words to say it

you're saying you don't communicate your wants and needs to your provider and simply have her guess?

Actually I do get it,
When I "communicate" dirty talking, name calling, spanking and hair pulling, Im not talking about choking or bruising ANYONE, ... I believe there are different levels to EVERYTHING we do here.
When a girl advertises "freaky, nasty" and then cant deliver and expects the wham bam on your way I feel like bait and switch.

Lots of assuming of some rough stuff here and I am sorry if I didn't explain myself as to the level of "fun" I was talking about.

Lets be honest, most the time the provider leads the session, most of us are to busy thinking with our little head to do anything about it...

You need a partner that equals your aggressiveness, right? I think the world is different, mommy doesn't play house and daddy doesn't always bring home the bacon... And I can do all those things (and do)  and still bring home the bacon... but still want my little slut when I come home.
Is that wrong?    

And Pirate is correct, why be in the hobby if I have to build a relationship

There's not one thing wrong with what you want; I'm not shaming you for that. But to expect a provider to "take the lead" when you're looking for a more kinky submissive doesn't make sense.  Submissives are expecting guidance and communication to know how to fulfill your wants and needs.  

Hell, any provider should have guidance to fulfill your wants and needs. If something goes wrong for you during a session and you don't communicate that, how is the provider to know?  

Perhaps you should see someone who advertises as PSE.  

Also, if you're so naive to believe that providers and clients don't create relationships when they see each other with regular frequency, perhaps you've never had an ATF or never found someone who really works for you.  In the case of submissive clients, the more I see them, the more they trust me to take care of their desires.  The more I play with them, the more I understand what it is they want.  The same goes with submissive providers.  They learn to trust, and they learn to provide exactly what it is you need.  It's not magic, you know. It takes time when you're developing a kink dynamic.

Since you apparently aren't actually looking for a kink dynamic, seeing a PSE provider might allow you to get what you need. Communication still applies though. She won't be able to deliver what it is you are specifically looking for unless you tell her.

While I personally consider myself to fall on the submissive end of the spectrum, I have my limits. I think it's one of those subjective terms that requires prior communication to define. Which segues back to my question for you: what would be an example (hypothetical or otherwise) of a lady not performing to your expectations in that regard?

Tobi, I think Sage explained it to me in a PM the best. Sometimes a girl says yes they can do that and then they feel silly. EX: Talking dirty, I ask them if they have been a naughty S%$@ and all of a sudden they are just nodding and moaning, like their tongue gone. or simple physical things you ask for and they do for a moment and then go back to business.  Just saying... dont say yes to things that YOU are not comfortable with....  NOW the issue is the review that follows... I hate bashing any girl that dont perform to my standards, YMMV...  All though they didnt live up to my fantasy they still performed very well. So I guess it is just hit or miss, I cant give a poor review for a great performance even thoough it wasnt MY fantasy... right

"Deep Thoughts: By an Uneducated Misogynist (and Possibly a Bigot)"

I understand your intention here, my friend. But I do believe you are lacking far too  much information to be posting on this topic.

I love being submissive in my primary relationships (and for work when appropriate), especially since I am dominant in my daily life. The reason I can do that is because I choose powerful, confident, and SENSITIVE partners. Being dominant is not just about getting what you want with no care for your partner. Its about asserting control gracefully. The former is just being selfish and ignorant.

Yes, submissive women exist. Yes dominant males exist - and do so successfully and live fulfilling sex lives... even with THE GAYS running rampant!

I encourage you to check yourself. Nothing is wrong with chivalry or dominance or even "fucking like a caveman." However, thinking like a caveman is not going to help you acquire respectable and skilled partners.

-- Modified on 5/15/2014 3:30:24 PM

OR... perhaps the client is not mindful enough to be respectful and responsible. Perhaps there is not dishonesty happening.  

I think that there can be an issue either way, but from the sound of this guy's attitude, he would be better off spending his money on a Real Doll

I think that submissive female sessions can happen in one shot, but as you and I both know it takes some clear understanding and communication of what exactly "submissive" means.

-- Modified on 5/15/2014 3:29:56 PM

Side note: I appreciate your perspective on expectations in a session.  

I'll back you up and say that it is the responsibility of both sides to clearly set and manage expectations as necessary.

Unfortunately some hobbyists won't communicate clearly, and some providers will promise just to get the booking (both are bad habits,  and will leave the hobbyist disappointed and the provider with no return clients).

Let's just say that the best sessions I've had were those where I let her do whatever she wanted. Never on a first appointment but after we got to know each other. It's wild, hot, and unbelievably sexy. She obviously wasn't guessing since she knew me so well but letting her do what got her off (over and over again) and me waiting until she was done - hot

You're right, communication is important when you don't know each other well. I was being a bit facetious and teasing about the wifey thing, lol.

Submission I think is a beautiful thing.

Excuse me ma'am, would it be alright if I took on the dominant role during our session?
You've already lost.

Thing is, you want to be sure not to hurt anyone or cross their boundaries but with that delivery you can be sure it's going to be a half hearted act. I once had a guy come in and as I went to give him a little kiss he grabbed me, picked me up, kissed me the way he wanted to and (not violently but certainly not lovingly) tossed me on the bed. Submissive? CHECK!!!!

That was… yeah. So I feel like either you are dominant or you're not, it's not something asked for and agreed upon when it's genuine. My job is to use my highly developed emotional fine tuning and observation skills to assess what kind of experience the other person is looking for and within 60 seconds I've usually figured it out. Then I play my position. That to me is what keeps this fun and exciting. I never want to be like hi…shower while I change….kiss…bbj…daty….cg…mish…doggy…rinse…repeat… like some car wash just pushing folks on through..

I'm blessed to be good looking, I'm blessed to enjoy sex immensely but I'm good at my job because I can adapt. I feed off the other persons energy and it makes the experience tailored to them. The moment you ask permission to be dominant you become submissive IMO. Research, read through reviews and determine if the lady engages in the specific things that turn you on. Then show up and act accordingly. When she kisses grab a handfull of booty and give it a good squeeze, then a smack…she'll get it.

END OF MESSAGE