Three members of the Duke lacrosse team are alleged to have raped and choked a stripper hired for one of their parties earlier this month.  46 of the players are having their dna tested in order to identify who it was.  From newspaper accounts it appears two dancers were hired, started to leave when the guys got abusive, and one was convinced to return.  

Bad situation, for sure, and if the guys did it they should go to jail.

Let me ask you guys a question.  Wouldn't the dancers ordinarily take a bodyguard with them to a private party with a group of men?  In my one experience with a dancer at a private party, the lady brought a guy with him, and this was a bachelor party in suburbia.

It has been my experience that dancers do bring a bodyguard to these events. It's easy to see why based on what happened to this girl.

You're right.  Most dancers wouldn't attend private functions w/o a male bodyguard. I believe I heard that these girls were mislead and thought they were coming over to entertain a bachelor party for 5 or 6 guys, not an entire lacrosse team.  It's a shame that guys can think so little with their brains and only with their dicks at times.  You just can't force your way on women, and the more obvious it is that you're thinking only with your dick the more unattractive you become to women.

Players apparently deny a rape took place.  

Prosecutors or police are floating stories that players were not cooperating with the investigation, but anyone who is a target should keep their mouths shut.

I never stated that they were GUILTY of rape.  Just of thinking with their dicks and not their brains.  I think it's safe to say they acted inappropriately even if a rape can't be proven.  Of course the players are going to deny it.

Then they would only be guilty of being unlucky enough to hire someone who would try to scam them.  Three possibilities:  rape, consensual sex, or no sex by these guys.  We'll know fairly soon.

Statements from team captains show confidence that DNA will exonerate the team.  The apparently admit hiring the strippers but deny the rape.  

Sounds like you already conclude a rape happened.  Belies your handle a bit.

Could be a scam.  Could be revenge when asshole boys shouted racial epithets when the dancers were leaving.  Could be a rape as alleged.  The tests will take us futher down the road to truth.  I'm glad DNA tests are now available.

Where the hell have you been?  The word is all around Durham about how the lacrosse team was out earlier that afternoon/evening enmasse obnoxiously drunk at a bar.  They've got so many lies floating around, some of which have already come back to bite them.  The university wouldn't have suspended the entire team if it felt this was simply a case of "he said, she said".  You don't hire exotic dancers or escorts for that matter and tell them they're coming to entertain a bachelor party of 5 or 6 when they're really coming over for 40+.  You don't yell racial slurs to them and to passers by on the street.  Too much is made of the DNA.  Yes it could prove their guilt if they were too stupid to not use a condom.  But it doesn't mean they're not guilty.  However, I believe in the burden of proof, so I won't say they're guilty of rape.  Quite frankly, I'd be surprised if they were even charged of that crime (yes, I "suspect" they used condoms), but the non-disputed actions of the Duke lacrosse team were shameful and an embarrassment to the university.  "Quilty of being unlucky enough to hire someone who would try to scam them"?  Ha ha, that's funny.  "We'll know fairly soon".  I doubt it.  I doubt we'll ever know exactly what happened.  Look for deals to be made, and charges to dissipate.

-- Modified on 3/31/2006 7:08:52 AM

-- Modified on 3/31/2006 7:11:53 AM

twice a day from reasonably reputable sources such as CBS, MSNBC, Winston-Salem Journal and NYTimes (NYTimes is the link here)
I've also read the Duke student daily, with a grain of salt.
Yours is the first report I've seen of the team obnoxiously drunk at a bar.  Curious that no news outlet has picked up on that if "the word is all around Durham".  I'm not sure what actions are non-disputed at this point other than some of the guys at the party were under 21 and drinking and they hired strippers--embarrassing surely but not shameful (at least in the eyes of anyone who would frequent this forum, I would think).  The racial epithets are even in dispute.

You seem convinced it could not be a scam. Everyone's entitled to have a closed mind.  I believe somebody ought to go to jail after this is over, either some of the guys for a rape or the two girls for making false accusations. I'm just not ready to judge which way it will go.

I also think it's too bad that so many people are willing to believe the Dukies did it cause they're rich, snooty white kids while others are willing to believe the woman is lying because she's black, poorer and a stripper.

From the Raleigh News & Observer earlier this week:
The accuser had worked for an escort company for two months, doing one-on-one dates about three times a week.

"It wasn't the greatest job," she said, her voice trailing off. But with two children, and a full class load at N.C. Central University, it paid well and fit her schedule.

This was the first time she had been hired to dance provocatively for a group, she said. There was no security to protect her, and as the men became aggressive, the two women started to leave. After some of the men apologized for the behavior, the women went back inside, according to police. That's when the woman was pulled into a bathroom and raped and sodomized, police said.

But if they wore condoms, then the tests won't tell anything to rule out rapes.

At least 2 women claim racial slurs and the next-door neighbor verified that claim.  And I didn't hear any reports of these guys assaulting any team members to shut up their racist ignorant mouths.  In my [white] view, the racial abuse is enough reason to close the Lacrosse program without any proof of sexual assault.  And even if the girls are "scamming", well, the players started it and payback is hell.

...told of the lacrosse team's drunken, obnoxious behavior at the bar.  My mind is not closed, I just have news of what happened that you do not.

Otherwise why bother to gather dna from the guys?  The cops must have something to which they are trying to match the players' dna.  Prosecutor said yesterday or Friday that he would not release the results this week, but some defense lawyers said they would (heh, only if exculpatory).  Still could be that three guys did it and are lying or letting others tell the lie for them, each hoping the samples gathered from the girl don't match him.  

But the internet doesn't pick up much broadcast material.  Even the print reported behavior is still pretty stupid and callous.

No DNA of the boys found on the victim's body, clothes or belongings.  The only DNA found from towels in the bathroom shared by two of the guys in the house.  Seems pretty unlikely that any sexual assault happened, even if they used condoms there ought to be something on her or on her clothes.  

Sounds like this was an attempted cash and dash and the woman was mad at being verbally abused.  Also, maybe pissed that she left her purse and her share of the cash.

While we may never know what really happened and this may never go to trial, my gut tells me this was no cash and dash attempt, nor scam by the girl.  These guys are dirty is what my gut says.  Also, if they had used condoms why do you say there ought to be some DNA on her or her clothes?  And finally and perhaps most importantly, the DNA has not come back on ALL the lacrosse players.  They're still waiting on the results for some of them.  The defense attys didn't mention this when they held their press conferences.  Granted, I'd be surprised if any DNA results came back that actually proved anything.  The victim has positively identified one of her attackers (a member of the lacrosse team), the other 2 guys could've just been friends of the players that never got tested.  Who knows exactly what happened.  Having lived and worked in Durham for around 15 years, I know this is certain: This case was destined to get bungled (it has), race is an issue (it is), this will linger even if it never sees the courtroom (trust me), and this will not make Durham a better place, but instead a worse place (trust me again).