I am a man that has been out of the hobby for awhile. I keep up on the boards, though. I have been on a few dating websites looking for a relationship. This week, I have come across a provider that has a profile for dating. I don't feel it is right to state who she is on here. Heck, it could be someone using her alias and pics. Either way. I have a question.  How do the guys and gals feel about dating a provider?  Guys would you? Ladies at what point of you tell your SO that you send time with others? What if he wanted you to quit and you really were into him?

I ha ve been dealing with this dilemma for 5 years now....I just decided not to date because I woulod have to lie from the start.  I would constantly worry he would find out.  What if I fell in love and for financial reasons couldnt get out etc.

Well in the last year I tried twice to date......what a joke.....the first guy found out in 4 weeks ...up until that point he was up my ass every minute of the day and non stop texting.  The day he found out he dropped me without so much as a text message....no explanation......no ranting or name calling...just deleted me......

recent guy I decided to just tell him up front within a couple of weeks that way if we decided to be intimate I wouldn't  be setting myself up for a huge ugly backlash if he found out etc....well......he didnt say one word about it really....but decided to just play immature games with me for weeks....texting me.....ask me out only to break the date that day....made me feel so stupid that I thought he was a nice guy but he was just playing me...making a joke out of me.  So I no longer want to try and date.......it's not worth the drama, the hurt feelings.  If you dont tell him your screwed if you tell him he is GONE....whatever.....

Let's say I've been there and done that!! I will say no more.........

Ladies, thanks for the input. I personally have only been in the hobby outside of a relationship. I would want to know we were headed toward intimacy. How I would fell?  I don't know. Avery,  I think the guy that just walked away handled it correctly. The other guy, well, he made all men look bad!  Guys, I'd like to hear your thoughts. I know that there are guys that are in relationships and the SO has no knowledge of your hobby. What about the single guys like myself? How would you handle it?

Not really sure what the YOYOMA thingy was but liked it at the time!!!!!!!!! hehe I do not even like Chelo's    is that even how you spell that?

I was actually surprised this topic got any action. Since some of our wonderful gals gave their opinions figured someone with a different set of chromosomes should pitch in! Could have said someone with a pee-pee and not a hoo-hoo ought to chime in but figured you all knew what I was getting at. hehe

I have stated before I am a Libertarian, a Diest and a few other things so I have at times a different slant on just about everything! That is except the Dallas Cowboys, Georgia Bulldogs and most of all the North Carolina Tar Heels. Sure about all of them, Luv Um!

Ok to the question at hand. Lets start at the beginning, I was born, just kidding. I figure what we all have in common is we are HUMAN beings. Besides most being somewhat simple I believe with all I got that at our base we all have the desire for two things! No, at least from the male perspective ASS AND TITS! That is weaved into it but actually at the base in my opinion is the desire to love and to be loved.

Switched things up and got a little deep on ya'll, huh? All sorts of human beings try to have those two things in their lives in various ways. I believe it all boils down to those two things though. Anyone CONCUR?????

Here in America traditional dating has been an approach at getting the terrific two as I will call them. I am not a fan of Dr Phil but I do like it when he asks the idiots he has on his show, "How's that working for ya?" We all know the answer when he gets to that question, right? Not too good!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So traditional relationships that lead to marriage lead to 50% divorcing and how many of the 50% that stay hitched are not finding the happiness they thought they were gonna get when they said those nuptuals?

Ok getting to my point and not the one on my ever increasing shiny head!!!!!!!

My point is basically, why not? Give it a whirl, date a hobbyist, date a provider, your chances are just as good if you date in any other form or fashion. There are pitfalls and trouble spots as a relationship develops no matter how it starts out. At some point maybe months, maybe years down the road there is always a tipping point. We all get to that point where we look at that Significant Other whether it got to marriage or just a long term thingy where we all look at each other and say, "You are not really who I thought you were". NO SHIT!!!!!!

Then what? Well if you got two people who are really committed and lets define committment ok, "Committment is doing what you said you were gonna do long after the feeling you had when you said it has left you". So the tipping point has arrived and what to do? Go start the process all over again? Maybe I should say start the fantasy all over again? That is a choice that can be made but just around the bend is the tipping point with that person.

So I know dating in our community is basically taboo! We all got paradigms floating around. You know in general terms the gals are crack addicted liars and the gents are losers who have to pay for their female attention.

Those things can be found in the hobby but I think we all know that what is really going on here is a mixed bag. There are some of the most outstanding women a fella could ever EVER EVER HOPE to meet and get to spend some quality time with them. Trust me I know check out the gals I have on my review list! Some of the most amazing beautiful sexy, interesting women around anywhere. Then there are also a few I have visited with that did not get reviews that we just won't talk about.

The bottom line is believe it or not we are a group of human beings together for a purpose of passion but that does not separate us from the norms of other groups of people intertwined for other purposes. So what happens to us in dating pretty much if we decide to do it happens to be about the same results one would find from a singles group meeting at a local church.

Try as we might we just ain't gonna escape that we are all just human beings, bozoes on the bus.

In conclusion, remember, I do from my mushroom days that those WONDERFUL horrible tasting little things grew out of cow poop! Sometimes in this crazy life something wonderful can happen from the most unexpected and unorthodox of places!

My final phrase is, WHY NOT? Not to be confused with my favorite of all time phrase, "I do not KNOW"!!!!!!! I mean it is really painfully apparent isn't it????????   LOL

So do or don't you are the one who has to live with the results of your choices. Just be honest with yourself that getting the terrific two does not necessarily mean it cannot be found with a person here or not. Why not here? Why not you? Why Why Why? I can't answer any of those questions personally!!!! LOL I do know what the real deal is is when two people get to the tipping point and they decide to work it out together instead of bailing.

Cool thing is if you ever get to meet people who have decided to get to the tipping point and figure a way to work it out they always seem to be each others best friends. So if you end up there might be a good idea to start there!!!!!!!!  HELLO! Not who feels the best, looks the best, can give you a bunch of nice stuff or more stuff than another, just who do you wake up and look at and dang if they just aren't your best friend.

Ok I am off to find my next paradigm to shift! It is a ton more difficult to do than I ever imagined when I decided to shift um when I can in my spare time. I would have quit years ago after so many dismal failures but the honest truth is dammit, I am committed! Go figure!!!!!!!

Time to get back to the movie I wanted to watch before I got carried away bloviating! Then SOA, what a GREAT SHOW!!!!!

As per my usual send off, I CONCUR!!!!!!! Anyone Anyone Bueller, Bueller?????

Shifterp OUT!!!!!!!!

I dont know.  A lot of factors to consider.  But with real love anything is possible.  As with any relationship there are things to work out as each discover each other.  Would a provider want to date a hobbyist?  Now that is the real question.  I might be wrong but  I believe a few providers just in the Carolinas are married or in a relationship.  I doubt if that is a secret to the SO.  So relationships can work in the biz.

So the answer to your questions its possible.  As the ladies pointed out not very easy.

Very interesting post though.  Will probably think more on the subject over time.

I just dont see why I can't date normally?  When 2 people first meet they date casually...and must assume the other is dating other people and/or having sex with others.  Then you come to the point where either you say "hey this is just not working for me..let's move on"  OR  you have the conversation "let's take our relatiionship to the next level and be exclusive"....at that point I would tell him and he would say....ouch! that sucks....but I love you and I want to be with you so STOP....and I will help you out with whatever you need.  But the same stigma still exists...fricken man whores everywhere.....until they finally settle down and fall in love....always ok.....but let a woman like having sex and be a whore....geezus  damaged goods not worthy of love???  When are men going to change their double standard......is it really that women sleep around...cuz I see whores at the bars every weekend......or is it the fact that we get a donation?

We all have seen the double standard.  I personally think the same standard should apply to everyone but I must be in a minority.  But let me tell a  civie that I am a hobbist and can you guess the reaction?  Ok maybe a little better than you got but I think I may see some heavy fire and she will look for someone better.  
Avery, we are ALL worthy of love.  Your not damaged goods.  And anyone that would think that of you is not worthy of you.  I dont know you but I read your web site and you are obvoiusly intelligent,  and I believe reading between the lines have a good heart.  Some jerks may have broke it or cracked the dream but they are not the answer, but just steps to where you will find the answer.

Know I can only speak for myself but not all men have the same double standards.

We all humans have double standards Avery, they just become apparent when situations
are there for them to show themselves.

It is really tough though isn't it? Maybe there is a fella out there that could live with a gal sleeping around or getting a donation but he does not have the means to have said gal stop the way she is earning her living. Then there is a fella out there when plenty of doe-ray-me but does dudes on the side!!!!!!!!!  LOL WTF

It is just tough out there trying to capture the terrific two! I know I am trying to myself!

Will tell you though there was this little guy just sickening with his optomism. Just goes to show that it really isn't what happens to us that really counts it is how we explain it to ourselves.

There was this horse barn and this spolied brat was led in there and led to a pile of horsecrap. All he could do was complain all day about what a lousy situation he was put in. You know the type, lots of moola and probably hung like a horse!!!!!! hehe

Then there was another little kid taken there. Probably of less means with a small little wee-wee! Probably raised by a single mom who brought him up with a lot of love and maybe not as much stuff. He is led into the room and five hours later someone came in to check on him. He was in there shoveling away just as excited as a little kid could be. He was asked what the heck was he so excited about and he said....."with all this crap in here there is bound to be a horse in here somewhere"!

So we all got stuff that can stop us or we can ignore and forge ahead. Bottom line at the end of the day and do not mean to be too morbid but none of us is getting out of this human condition alive. this is our only life(maybe) so pick up your paintbrush and paint a masterpiece or not. How you tell yourself what happens to you is completely up to you.

By the way you are SMOKING HOT!!!!!!!!!  LOL

Take care, Shifterp

Well said Roadshow!

I Concur!

Shifterp OUT to more SOA!

long ago.  I can share my feelings but you have to remember they are only mine.

Yes, if you are emotionally secure enough to never let her know that you know.  If she never tells you, it's something you must take to your grave even if you marry and celebrate your 50th anniversary.

If she does tell you then you must explain to her delicately that you knew, but wanted to give the relationship a chance to grow strong and flower.  That might be a good time for you to bring up that you had been involved in P4P in the past.

It's not something to be entered into without some deep thought and soul searching.

Best of luck no matter what you decide to do.



-- Modified on 11/29/2011 11:39:33 PM

In a perfect world, you would be able to date normally. Our society has oppressive elements who see free sexual expression as undermining their power. Criminalization of sexuality is a power play that helps them shore up their base. There is a lot of ebb and flow in this struggle, but I think they are losing. There is more support for legalizing sex trades and de-stigmatizing the profession than there has ever been. The dating issues may have more to do with the stigma, than the activity itself. As you point out - we’re none of us virgins, so what’s the big deal?

...I couldn't and wouldn't date someone who was a client.  I also wouldn't seriously date until I'm done being a provider. If a guy i was only dating managed to find out and asked me to quit he'd better be able & ready to financially take care of me (that includes my tuition) and I am not cheap lol. I can't live on love alone.

-- Modified on 11/30/2011 5:15:13 AM

Thank you sweety!  That is really nice to hear xoxo

The fact that someone I wanted to date was a provider would not be an automatic deal breaker. Let's face the fact that everyone has their own set of issues and history. I know I have my share. Honesty and communication would be the key. I would want to know early on that she was a provider. Hiding it would lead to much bigger problems later. Trust is paramount. I would not want to start a relationship with a lie. Been there  done that. It never works as you have already devalued the person by lying to them. I would obviously have some concerns. Probably the biggest one would be her view of men. Given that she sees them on a professional basis, the danger of her becoming jaded would worry me. From time to time I get a hint of that through posts on this board and conversations I have had with providers. Next would be the obvious issue of STDs. There would have to be a serious conversation about health safety. I would also worry about her safety as  the play for pay world can be a dangerous place. Of course I would probably be uneasy about how my performance between the sheets measures up. Us guys do have fragile egos. The bottom line is that with honesty and communication, I think it could work for me

of the society we live in & the dynamics associated with it. The vast majority of people care what other people think. For a man, that particular point is fueled even more by the ever-present male ego.

Here's a true, real-life story that happened recently:
A very good friend of mine was all excited because his wife had agreed to a threesome with him. She was eeven going to "experiment" with the lady because she knew that would please him. The only request she had was that she wanted to confess to him that she had always had the fantasy of having "2 men all over me" & if she did this for him, she wanted to live her fantasy too. I loved it & laughed my ass off. Plus, I found new respect for her because she was being honest. Well, guess what?? You guessed it........according to my buddy, she was now a "whore". He made the mistake of asking my opinion & I of course was brutally honest & told him he was being a dick. I said "2 beautiful, sexy women pleasuring you should equal 2 men with big 'ol ugly dicks pleasuring her". He still doesn't get it. Why? Stupid male ego. My buddy's wife wanting to enjoy two guys doesn't make her a "whore".

I agree that to some egotistical, self absorbed guys.......they see women who love sex as "whores" & "damaged goods". However, there are some men who cherish & appreciate a confident, beautiful, sexy woman who is comfortable with her sexuality........we call you lovely ladies Goddesses!!! For the hobbyist.......me anyway........we appreciate your confidence, sexiness, smartness & business accumen.

I would say do not stop living life. Live it, breathe it, love it. If you meet someone that you would like to go to dinner with ------ GO!!! Enjoy it. You have made a friend. It doesn't mean there has to be an "exclusive" standard set. You know the deal, so you are that much ahead of the game.

If I were in a different relationship status (was that too politicall correct?? HaHa), I would not think twice about dating any of the lovely providers on this board. Hell, I would be proud. You all are smart, witty, sexy, beautiful........who could ask for more?  If it got serious......well, then we would have to be honest with each other & take it from there.

However, if the roles were reversed & you realized you were dating a man who "hobbied" from time to time........for whatever reason...........would you ladies think differently of him?

I hope I articulated what I was trying to say properly. I have already placed a self-imposed board exile on myself for a previous post that I meant totally different than how it came out!!

Back to Siberia!! HaHa

K........,
I think we all get banged up on this board every now and then) IMHO you have added to this thread in a positive manner, so don't be exiled to Siberia for too long)

We all have a hungry heart---song I just heard on radio coming back from gym---and we all are looking for that one  person to make us happy---HOWEVER, the only one who can do that is our own self, soooo, Avery, take this gentleman's advice and....do not stop living life. Live it, breathe it, love it!" Finding someone who is a match for our own wants and needs is like playing the lottery---LONG odds, but somebody does win the thing, and someone may come along for you today, tomorrow, etc. Just don't "work" at it

There are a number of ladies in this profession that I have reviewed, and were asked not to, that I would be honored to be in a long-term relationship with, as long as we both agreed that we could dance with others on occasion. It is my belief that that is crucial to those of us on one side, or the other in this hobby.

So far, you, yes you;P and that lil Southern Spy Lindsey that I wanted us  to "capture" and have our way with a while back were born too soon, or I was born too late for one another(  Same with all so far, but I
keep looking) However, I am about to change my handle to "Desperado"---Eagles song---as, at my age, I probably will keep on riding fences and enjoying the nice things that I find on my door step from time to time--LOL

I think most of you ladies, would make a great partner.
True, the man would have to be a little "thick-skinned" for such a relationship.
I think the ladies in the biz, may appreciate us men (as partners), even more (than civee women), because we have the courage and/or the want to, to give them something ( love and intimacy ) that they are not getting in the biz.
Hmmm, just my .02 cents worth.

My question is, if you don't have it, do u do ok with out it? ( love and true intimacy )

Ah, Julia, your post saying ...maybe you even love other people as well...in different ways...has elicited another response from me on this thread, as I have told some of the ladies that I have danced with over time that I love them, but in a sweet way that is not smothering, or fraught  with jealously, or said in jest, just to curry favor with them, but as a true term of endearment meant to let them know how much they mean to my life
Hey everybody! I'm telling Julia that I LOVE HER, and that is because she is just a wonderful, wonderful human being, who helps those in need, i.e.,for one,  our lil scared mutual acquaintance who I sent to you a while back for help in getting her life on a lil better level. Those of you who know her already  know this, and those of you yet to know her giving heart will soon be saying those 3 lil words to her) O, go ahead and say 'em now)

Honesty, is my #1 policy & when you have an SO trust is a must.  Dating A provider can be tricky because she is used to getting paid for her time, so if your not spoiling her with gifts the sex can get weak fast!

Just my 2 cents

I love the honesty!!! If I ever date a provider, I will make sure I have an endless supply of gift wrap for all the gifts.........I would never want "weakness" !! LoL

Come to think of it...........sounds a little like sex when you've been married for a while !!!! Just my six figure dollars spent!!! HaHa

You ever get out here to the Carolinas from L.A.?

If Ure gong to date a provider u may want to do the allowance once a month pay out deal and keep her happy and out of business a provider make the best companions she's got what u need and u got what she wants put it together and the u can fall in love stay together long time..

I dated a provider for 4 years! Everything was great we had a completely open and honest relationship and the understanding that business and personal was different. There had to be a GREAT deal of trust as i wanted to stay healthy and it was a risk. We didn't work out but not because of the profession. So yes dating a provider can be both fun and exciting and can work. I was told not when we first met but when we had a date and both wanted to move forward. I think the upfront talk was better as that would go back to the trust issue if she had waited until we were really involved.

Re: I luv you too, BL69 XO (eom)

)~~~

my next "ex" will have the chance to have 2 providers a month.  He gets to make a bucket list and then I get to choose the girls from that list.  They will have to meet my standards you see just in case I decide that I want to maybe play too! lol   I have come to realize that men like variety - it doesn't mean that they don't love their wife or SO - it just means they like sex!  Why should you have to have sex with the same person for 50 years!

Do you guys think that if you had the greenlight to go play a few times a month that it would maybe strengthen your relationships with your wives/SO's?  Would it be as much fun if you did have the greenlight?  Would it be exciting or weird for you to be able to come home and tell them about your experience?

Just curious!

Kasey

I am on my way to buy that ring, and making a provider wish list for your review;P

Hell, I tell the most of the people I sit next to on planes (unless they have a bible open or other indications of strong religious beliefs that might be extremely uncomfortable knowingly sitting next to a professional companion.) It's important for people to realize that not all professional women are human trafficked or come complete with a set of track marks and a high school drop out education.

I learned the hard way early into my chosen avocation that hiding what I do with a potential lover, even if it is a matter of "I'll come clean with him later but before we have sex." only serves to create two incredibly problematic (and entirely unnecessary) obstacles. First, even if he or she can logically understand why I might have waited to tell him/her, on a more emotional level it still leaves the impression that I am ashamed of what I do, thus mentally reinforcing the social more that s-work is somehow "wrong." Genuine questions about my practices, concerns and open discussions over what I do to mitigate health risks (not to mention overall safety risks of life and limb) and such are ALWAYS available topics of discussion. Wasting my time trying to excise misguided moral theories or any sort of belief that I need saving...I have no time for, and telling someone very early on not only helps reduce concern that I'm ashamed, but it helps me to quickly root out those who might be ashamed of or try to save me. I'm extremely proud of what I do.

Second, there's the purely practical issue of informed consent regarding sex. This is where my behaviors tend to differ from a lot of people. I'm polyamorous, and have been actively practicing such most of my adult life. I'm used to having multiple lovers and boyfriends/girlfriends, as this has been my natural state of being for about a decade. As such, I was familiar with similar types of discussion well before I became a companion.

Giving someone the right to informed consent is the greatest respect you can pay them, since you are empowering them to your fullest ability so that they may make a decision with full awareness and autonomy. Anyone who's had sex with me knows where they stand (no lead ons), my general sexual history/behavior, my testing behavior, and my current known status (to date always negative). Sometimes the little part of your brain that tells you that you two won't be having sex tonight (you know, the one that rationalizes that you should skip the leg shaving so you'll be less tempted to get naked ) goes right out the window when you're suddenly flung on the bed and dry humping like rabbits in heat. It is simply NOT the time to tell someone that you're a working girl while you're simultaneously rolling on the condom. Hormones and rational thought simply don't mix, and suddenly after sex instead of an afterglow cuddle, you end up with a resentful partner convinced you manipulated him/her. Telling your potential beau ahead of time saves you a world of headache afterward.

As for quitting-I was once given an ultimatum. It was early enough into my journey as a companion, and I really did love him, that I nearly did break. I praise the heavens every day that I chose this, and myself, over his demands. I only speak for myself, but wild horses couldn't drag me away from my avocation.

Kasey in my experience we were open about everything and not scared to tell each other of any "new" things that either of us wanted to try. This is why it worked so well. She was also VERY bi and would bring other women home. Why i say this is that there was no desire to go anywhere else. She would be open to new suggestions and occasionally brought other women around and I never cared to go off alone. It was exciting to share these experiences together!

While I've been a TER member since 2003, I never post.  I just lurk, and read the great 'fiction' here and on my old "home" board further up the Mid-Atlantic coast.  When I saw this topic I felt that I might have something to offer, so here goes.

I am married to a former provider and have been for almost 5 yrs.  I met her through the hobby over ten years ago in another part of the country.  We moved to NC after we got married in Jan 2007.  Our relationship has seen many ups and downs, but I have loved her unconditionally almost since we met.

Before we met she danced, and appeared in a couple of movies.  At one point she was the next big thing, but it didn't work out the way she had hoped.  She did the "private viewing/massage" thing for a number of years.  In 2003, she got out, but not because of me.  As I said above, I've loved her unconditionally and while I would have liked for her to do something else, I never asked.  I felt that if we were meant to be, it would happen, if not I had a very good friend.

One never really knows what will happen in any relationship, and if someone *thinks* they *know*, they could wake up quite surprised one day.  Like I said we've had ups and downs, but generally trending up.  So we're loving and learning our way through this.  I can say that it's a work in progress and it's getting better all the time.  BTW, what marriage isn't a work in progress.

It comes down to communications, respect, patience and most importantly love.

Thanks for the interesting topic, I've enjoyed reading the many thoughts and points of view.  

Ravenfan

Does anyone know his address?  In the DC area...Ritz. looking to find my friends