I saw a reference in an earlier post about some ladies not measuring up to St. Bart’s GFE scale. Like somehow, that scale is the one and only factor involved in deciding GFE or non-GFE.

With all due respect to St. Bart, that’s hogwash. Correct me if I’m wrong, but his scale depends on ladies taking chances with their health. It rewards multiple, unprotected acts during a session. And while I have no objection to consenting adults doing whatever they feel comfortable with, disciples of this scale that follow it with a dogmatic fervor cause more harm than good in this hobby.

Lets see, how does a session like that go? Ok, let’s get comfortable. Tack the checklist on the headboard, hang a pencil next to it. That way you can check as you go. Hmmmmmmm BBBJ, followed by DATY and Russian, then lets put on a cover and go for CG, reverse CG, doggie and then finish by hammering away in missionary. Then, round 2, same thing except we throw in a little untranslated Greek language instruction followed by a facial. GFE? NO, why? Well hell, no DFK.. can’t be a GFE…. Oh, and no CIM, definitely not a GFE, wait, wait… she was too mechanical and business like which means bad attitude.
Definitely not a GFE!!!!!! Bad provider, bad, bad, bad…..

C’mon guys, maybe, just maybe she was too mechanical and business like because she knows that any body would have done, you didn’t even care who as long as you had that damn checklist.

Let’s try something a bit different. How about, treating a lady like a lady? How about, respecting her limits? How about letting her know how beautiful she is, or how you like her hair, or eyes. How about, you bring a bottle of wine, or some flowers and show her some appreciation AND God forbid you get to know the person. How about you ask her what SHE likes, or give HER a massage. Sheesh

GFE, SchmeFE…. It’s in your head, the big one guys. What makes a lady special to me is first and foremost that we LIKE each other. What makes her GFE is not what she does, or how many times she does it. It’s how we connect during a session. Its about MUTUAL satisfaction in whatever form that satisfaction takes. Even if it’s just a peck on the cheek, or a big thank you hug for a great time.

Now, fire away, have fun, but I like my GFE definition better.
   

Magnum,I couldn't have said it better myself.

I second that motion..........

many guys will say, "My girlfriend won't do that" (covered or otherwise .

Based on that statement, maybe any type of french invalidates the "girl friend experience."

Just having fun! I've admitted it before. I have way too much time on my hands.

Have a good day everyone!

thirsty

-- Modified on 1/23/2003 6:01:57 AM

-- Modified on 1/23/2003 6:02:58 AM

-- Modified on 1/23/2003 7:44:22 AM

Different opinions (and the right to voice them) clearly contribute to making this an interesting world to live in.

Personally, with a provider I’m not seeking love. I AM seeking specific elements of physical fulfillment I don’t receive elsewhere. Certainly mutual respect is a must, and genuinely liking each other is a plus, but let’s not forget who the customer is in this transaction.

Is GFE to be what a girlfriend has done for you in the past, or is it what you, the customer, would like a girlfriend to do for you, but never has? My preferred definition is the latter.

My friend...a brilliant summation of the essence of GFE! You have echoed my words and personal opinions perfectly...it is, at least for me, all about respect and mutual pleasuring...ultimately culminating in a wonderful and passionate GFE great time! And again, this is where the YMMV factor explodes!

The Saint Bart Scale was developed to give a sense of the service level, without giving the details.  100% GFE requires DFK, DATY, and BBBJ ... with enthusiastic FS... everything I expect from a civilian GF.  If one item is missing, she's 90% GFE, two missing is 80% GFE, etc.  My reviews on the other board, Magnum, are in fact much less detailed than those you have posted on TER... there I can simply say she was 90%GFE (without saying what was missing)and get on with the romance aspects of the visit.  People know something was missing, but not which aspect.  If you say a lady DFKed or allowed DATY or gave BBBJ, THAT puts her on the spot for the next hobbyist, who wants to know "why Magnum got it but not me".  On the other board I sometimes get accused of being a romance writer because of my lack of details beyond the X%GFE.

FYI, BBBJTC, Greek (never uncovered... that's suicidal for her), allowing pix, staying long over the allotted hours, etc all earn a plus... one for each item.  If I write someone was 90%GFE+, you know something was missing but something came along extra to compensate, so just don't know what, so the lady is not on the spot.  

I don't write so many reviews any more... spending too much time playing, I guess.  But, if you take the time to actually search my reviews back 600 days on Boston, NYC or Miami on the other board and you'll see I am really a "romantic" in my writing.  And, BTW, the ladies say they greatly prefer the SBS to the spelling out of specific acts in a session.  

Hope this helps.

PS: My two reviews on TER are far more graphic than I prefer as the original versions were rejected for being too vague.  I later decided I'd rather pay for VIP access than write the graphic reviews necessary to get free VIP status, so there's no reviews by me since 2001 here.  

-- Modified on 1/23/2003 11:21:40 AM

-- Modified on 1/23/2003 11:26:42 AM

I am very much agreed with Bart on this one. I too pay for access to this board and have zero reviews in the system.

I too had submitted a review but received back a message saying not even close to having details that are required.

I never share details of specifics services offeded by a lady as I don't want to put them in an uncomfortable situation with someone expecting something that she may not be comfortable doing with them.

While the St. Bart scale is not perfect, it certainly is better than posting something sounding like it came straight out of Penthouse Forum.

huboo

Hi St. Bart, I appreciate your response. As I said, with all due respect, your scale and how you use it and the purpose for which you developed it is your personal choice. It reflects what you find important in a session and gives you a way to make your personal decisions on who to see or not see.

I have been as guilty as many hobbiests in trying to define GFE based on what a lady will or won't do.

Unfortunately, I believe your personal scale has become something that some have turned into the gospel on how to define GFE. Subsequently, some have perverted it and turned it into the end all, be all measure of GFE's. It is no longer a 'scale' or 'measure' by which I wish to judge a lady to be GFE or not GFE.

I've simply decided that I wish to enjoy each lady I meet for who they are, how we interact, for her sense of humor or how she smiles or any one of a hundred things I think I can find about her that is so much more important than what they will or won't do. I've learned that my enjoyment of a particular lady is enhanced, made more fulfilling, by making sure that she has also fully enjoyed my company. One way to do that, for me, is to accept her limits regardless of what they are, be a creative lover and find a way to leave her with as big a smile at the end of a session as I will have.

As for the TER review process and how graphic they need to be to get published? My reviews are far from being the most graphic on the review database. I'd love TER to relax those requirements, so that we can do a review with less graphic details.

I never said I didn't consider the subjective, intangible qualities of an encounter, only that that portion of the review that deals with objective criteria is useful too... and the two shouldn't be confused. There have been several ladies whose company I enjoyed over a considerable period of time who were not GFE. I liked them for other reasons, but I would not mislead the community by publicly rating them GFE when they didn't meet the consensus definition of the term. I feel that if any description of my encounter includes both the subjective and objective assessments, the reader can make up his mind as to what he finds useful in the review according to what criteria are important to him. What I think is not good, is for providers and agencies to use the term indiscriminately without any regard for the shared understanding of the term that exists in the community. Some providers and agencies are very good about that, others are not. If you define the term any way you want to maximize your business, it quickly becomes meaningless, and therefore, useless.

The notion of GFE existed, however fuzzy, before St. Bart's attempt to give a definition to it. He came up with a definition that many agree is reasonable and useful, and it is as good or better, and as well stated as anyone else's definition so far. If we don't have some notion of the objective meaning of the term, it loses a lot of utility. I certainly agree that subjective aspects of an encounter are important, but I do expect some things to happen before I consider an experience with a provider a girl friend experience. No matter how charming a provider's personality is, I would be disappointed if all she did was sit and talk and hold my hand for an hour. That is not to say I would ever descend to arm twisting to get anyone to engage in activities she was not comfortable with.

Actually, the reviewing guidelines of TER are very precise, too bad so few made a reasonable attempt to follow them. Anything above a 7 for service should only be given for "extra" services, examples of which are given on that page. I don't think that all reviewers here make an attempt to follow those guidelines. You may argue with the guidelines, but the owners of this site have every right to set whatever standards they think are appropriate. It cuts both ways, too. Some reviewers give 1's, 2's, or 3's for services that, if you read their reviews, really deserve at least a 5. Others completely ignore the "above 7 only for extras" rule and hand out 8's, 9's and 10's like Tootsie Rolls. I don't see any practical way to enforce those standards, especially now that they've been ignored for so long, so the point is moot. It seems to me, though, that it would be a very good and useful system if everyone agreed to use the standards. It seems to me that a lot of the problems I've pointed out derive directly from confusing perfectly valid subjective appraisals with objective evaluations.

Through the looking glass: "When I use a word", Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less."

"The question is", said Alice, "whether you can make words mean so many different things."

"The question is", said Humpty Dumpty, "which is to be the master—that's all."

-- Modified on 1/24/2003 7:39:39 AM

Well, I've read this post through some eyes that are slightly fogged by 12 yr old scotch and I will probably read it several more times to make sure I understand each and everyone of your points.

However, there is one point that stands out vividly and that is the subjective vs. objective standards by which we may judge GFE vs. non-GFE. The truth is, we agree that there is subjective and objective criteria. Where we may differ is, I no longer believe the objective is as important as the subjective. What is really important is that there is a genuine, mutual, caring interest in each partner wanting to provide as fulfilling an experience as possible for the other. That each specific act was performed in some sort of order or in any particular fashion means nothing to me. I want to like, enjoy and feel a bond with the lady I'm with and not wonder 'what she will do or won't do'. Maybe thats just age, or maybe thats just my personal experiences, or maybe it's just that I can no longer look at encounters as a purely physical release that happens when certain buttons are pushed in certain ways.

For me it has come to a very simple decision, if I want physical relief I can save myself a lot of money by getting some hand lotion and a mens magazine. If I want to be involved, feel like I'm part of another persons passions, provide and recieve the enjoyment that comes with that, then I have to respect that persons limits and not judge them on those limits.



-- Modified on 1/25/2003 5:11:47 AM

I'm going to ramble too....

What you experienced is commonly called the "click".  It's what most of us seek with a lady because it makes us feel special... whether the lady is a great actress or really felt attracted, we'll never know, but I agree, that's the best GF experience.  (My first "click" was with a woman from Toronto... we spent many evenings and a weekend together... we meshed in so many ways, but she was never more than 90%GFE... and yet, I still think about her.)  

But the net of your type of review is that there's no way to expect that your wonderful GF experience will also be had by me or someone else... we are all different, and we know YMMV.  So not knowing if we'll ever reach a higher level "click" with the lady, many of us would like to get an idea of the GF level that's generally available to those who don't journey to heaven like you... hence, the Saint Bart Scale.  

It's time for bed...

PS: The last lady I explained the SBS to, and then declared her 100%GFE, jumped up and down like a little kid that won a prize... In my experience, the ladies that object to the SBS are those that aren't 100%GFE, so it's a threat to them.

I have really enjoyed this thread, just a couple of more things in response:

First, you make an assertion that there is a consensus definition of GFE in the community and if anything, this thread and others like it invalidate that assertion. Were there a consensus definition that everyone in the community, ladies and gentlemen alike, could agree to, this would not be a discussion point on such a regular basis. If 1000 ladies and gentlemen in the hobby are asked what makes a GFE, I'd bet we'd get several hundred different definitions. You have a right to see whomever you want, through whatever service you want to use and using whatever criteria you choose to for reviewing. BUT, clearly to me, there is no consensus standard, nor should there be. We are all different and all looking for different things. I know I didn't sign an agreement to adhere to any particular standard when I got into the hobby.

Second, maybe I missed it, or ignored it, but I only recently read the 7 points plus points for extras. I disagree with them as well. If I ever do another review, the number I give will reflect intangibles like was she nice, did she have a sense of humor, did we click, did she enjoy herself as much as I did. And not acts. If TER wants to change the rating before approving the review, well, as you said the board is 'theirs'.

So, if/when I write another review, it's not even going to be close to reading like a Penthouse letter. But, it will contain the facts that I deemed important to me. After all, it is my review. Those looking for hardcore reading excitement, I'm sorry, but I can't do that anymore.

-- Modified on 1/25/2003 7:00:38 AM

When I see a provider, I am not looking to have a girl friend, wife or woman who wants a long term relationship.  I am not looking for an emotional attachment.  For the money I pay, I am basically contracting for the provider's time and service.  As such I expect to receive what I pay for.  This not much different from having a contractor work on a home improvement project for you.  Would you accept a shoddy job from your home improvement contractor?  Would you obtain references on the contractor's reputation for doing the work correctly and on time?  Is it useful to you to find out as much as possible from other homeowners about their experience with the contractor you are looking to hire?

With a provider, it is the instant gratification I am after.  I am also seeking the type of intimacy that my significant other does not want to get into.  It is important to me to know in advance what the provider is willing to do or not not do so that I do not waste my money and her time.  Therefore, the reviews that provide information using St Bart's scale and graphic details are very useful to me before I see a provider for the first time.  

The hobbyists who write vague reviews or shy away from giving details are doing a disservice to both the providers and other hobbyists.  Such reviews can be misleading.  Hobbyists reading those may make wrong decisions and see someone who is not willing to meet their expectations.  I am VIP member of TER and the reason I chose that option is to be better informed about the providers' services.  It is up to the member community to give a factual and detail feedback to help out people like me.

Mr. Magnum, at the risk of finally spilling over into a flame war which I sincerely wish to avoid, the original disagreement had to do with BO's misuse of the term gfe. If there is no consensus on that being a misappropriation, then there can never be a consensus definition of the term. The irony is that, by everything I've read and/or experienced, the last place any sane hobbyist would go to approach the "click" that you are apparently seeking since your hobby Epiphany is BO. Not the kind of experience a reasonable fellow expects from a $$/hr incall mill. The conditions of such an operation do not lend themselves to any such connection, though I don't discount that, rarely, it happens. Anything is possible! It is much more likely that upscale, often independent, and often better socialized and educated girls who charge higher fees, attracting more upscale clientele and having many more multi-hour sessions which put the provider under much less pressure to perform and get a client in and out the door create a much more likely environment for a, dare I say it, "spiritual" experience. Any provider who has the kind of personal qualities that lend themselves to that kind of connection is likely to quickly leave such an operation as BO when she realizes that she can go independent or find a more upscale agency where the money and working conditions are sooooo much better. I'm not saying that I don't get a thrill by occasionally going somewhere for the gritty sensations of a starkly blue collar experience, a "Donna" from Revere, but mostly I like what I get when I pay more. I'm also not saying that there aren't a few out of town agencies that bill themselves as upscale but in reality, run perfectly awful incall mills, just that it pays to play the odds.

-- Modified on 1/25/2003 8:45:10 AM

Hi, Thanks for your opinion. Your entitled to go after anything you want in anyway you want it. It's your money, spend it how or where you wish.

Point 1, not looking for a GF, then why are you looking for a GFE? Part of the GFE supposedly is being a girlfriend. Most of the girlfriends I've had in my life wouldn't do half the things some of us expect these ladies to do.

Point 2, instant gratification? Physical gratification only. Ok, your choice and I respect that as well. Your looking for a receptacle. Hey, when I was younger I would constantly say there is no such thing as bad sex. I no longer believe that, sex with a body without any personal connection is no better than using a mens magazine and your friend Rosy. Why bother.  

Point 3, not all of the ladies like graphic reviews, some don't like any reviews so it is not a disservice to them, or to you. If anything, writing an unwanted review on a lady is a violation of a trust. The only time I would do that is if it were a ripoff scam.  

Point 4, it is not every hobbiests job to provide you with graphic reviews to keep you informed so that you don't make a mistake. I as a member of the community don't owe you anything, not one graphic line in a single review. In the future, any review I write will say, I think she was fun, I had a great time, I enjoyed her company a great deal, she was worth the effort I spent to satisfy her as well as myself. The details of what the lady will do is already in her profile. We all know YMMV, so graphic details in any review mean nothing. As per St. Barts response, his scale was meant as a way to reduce the graphic details. You seem to require both.

Point 5, while you may not have meant it to sound this way, what you wrote sounds like you believe every encounter is all about you and it is. Your paying your money, you want what you want, when you want it. Your entitled to that and I think most of the ladies will give you that, after all this is a business. IF thats all you want from it, then that is all you will get. Personally, I'd rather not think she is counting ceiling tiles while I go after 'what I want', see point 2.    

Look, everyone, man and woman in this hobby, is free to go after anything they want to go after. We are all independent adults, individuals with our own tastes and needs. Have fun, enjoy each encounter, but I've had enough with the labels.



-- Modified on 1/25/2003 8:53:23 AM

I doubt very much that Amber's definition of GFE matches your more esoteric definition of GFE any more than the more broadly shared performance rated definition I use, probably even less! In reality, she just throws around the term with little heed for its meaning because she perceives that it will attract customers.

It is true that the 7-point must system (lol) is, ultimately, arbitrary. But if you have a better rating system, you should start your own web site or buy this one and change things. If your approach has the merit you seem to think it has, you should prosper in the free marketplace of ideas. Until then, I intend to honor the wishes of the people who risked time and capital in building this, their site. And, if you spend your time, money, and effort to acquire this operation, I will then follow your rating guidelines, or go elsewhere. Such are the workings capitalism and property rights.

-- Modified on 1/25/2003 9:35:33 AM

Nope, no flame war. I am not interested in a flame war. Our basic point of contention started as a result of your comments on BO's use of GFE. That was the basis of my starting this thread.

A lot of people use GFE:

Your contention is that there is, or at least should be a consensus on what constitutes the use of that label. And that you believe that consensus should be based on another individuals private scale.

My contention is there is no consensus, nor should there be an attempt to force all members of this community into a consensus. My GFE involves a connection, mutual respect and mutual enjoyment and is not based on particular behaviours. Especially ones I consider risky.

Lets just agree to disagree and leave it at that. I have found what I am looking for at BO, with several ladies. And thats not done in a 30 minute or even a 60 minute session.

-- Modified on 1/25/2003 9:23:24 AM

Well, I respect that. I think the problem is, when you try to do a one size fits all rating system with the myriad of personalities, wants, likes, dislikes etc... then you get what I think we have. Some will love it, some will like it, some will accept it, some will not like it, some will hate it. There is no way to appease everyone. I have in general decided that I don't like rating systems that are skewed based on certain behaviours rather than what I took and gave during the experience.

Maybe I'm reading too much into this, but you sound more and more like a guy who is taking this position because he found some provider who really got to him. Am I right? In that case, all your forgoing statements make perfect sense, and all my arguments are irrelevant. Some little cutie has stolen your heart and still doesn't give up the "GFE." You're not the first, and it just proves you're human. It's happened to you, me, Nately, and half the guys on this board at some time, I bet. No future in it, but in the meantime, bask in the glow, it's like being a teenager again!

-- Modified on 1/25/2003 10:12:37 AM

lol, If the truth be known, I have several ladies that have gotten to me a various times over the last 4 years. It took me a very long time to get past one of them. I have a lady friend in the biz, from out of state thats a sister to me, she pulled me in off the ledge several times during my 'ordeal'. I'm not making another mistake. Yeah, I have an ATF and I see other ladies as well. Hell, I love talking to ladies in 'AOL married my hubby is a jerk' chat rooms about relationships and what they are missing.  

Ya know what a lot of men don't do? We don't freaking listen, we ignore, we close ourselves off, we take for granted, we forget to treat the women in our lives with respect, simple things really. We basically hear, what we want to hear, selective hearing I guess it's called.

No, this isn't about some little honey that got under my skin and won't give up a GFE. This is about me, with some influence from several women friends, in and out of the biz, with one, maybe two that have been catalysts, just taking a look at some things. Doing a little self-reflection and maybe not always liking what I see. Self reflection is a healthy thing to do sometimes, we ought all try it once in a while.

I posted against the GFE standard on 'the other board' several years ago. This is nothing new for me, check the other board for Magnum and Spillo.... I didn't like it back then, I have come to realize that my initial instincts were valid. GFE is in your head, not on a checklist.


-- Modified on 1/25/2003 11:37:01 AM

See, TBD, General Discussion Board, Nov 12, 2000..Didn't like it then, don't like it now

http://public1.boards.bigdoggie.net/messageboards/national-general/msgs/posts/32044.html




-- Modified on 1/25/2003 3:43:41 PM

Here are my very long 2 Cents about the five points you raised in response to my message.

On Point one: I am not looking to have a GF when I meet a provider, I merely want the Experience I long for from GF of my fantasy.  What you say about the real life GF is absolutely true.  That is why I am selective about the providers I see.  The reviews on TER and TBD help me with this selection process.  

On Point 2:  It looks like you are putting words in my sentence that don’t belong.  Instant gratification does not have to be just physical gratification like you say in your response.  In fact, it can include instant TLC and intimacy that goes way beyond sex, and intelligent conversation that lasts longer than the time it takes for many men to ejaculate!!!  Some providers have gone as far as taking my shoes off, massaging my aching feet, joining me in the shower to soap up my back, and so on.  Those acts are also very gratifying to me since I never had a real life GF who actually did those things for me.  In my encounter with a provider, my first priority has always been to find someone who is not like my current significant other, the pain in my @ss for most of the time.

On Point 3: I agree that not all ladies like graphic reviews, and I think some don’t like any reviews.  They are not shy when they expose themselves and perform intimate acts with hundreds of men.  Then why are they so shy about revealing what they actually do? I would hesitate to meet someone new without knowing whether they will do what I expect and whether I will enjoy their company during the encounter.  There is a clothing store in the Boston area whose ad says “Informed consumer is our best customer”.  I think, this motto also applies to our hobby.

On Point 4: At least one main purpose of boards such as TER and TBD is to exchange information about providers.  If you don’t want to contribute your “REAL” experiences with providers and just gloss over, you may be misleading others who are reading your glowing comments about your encounters.  But if that is how you want to operate, it would be hard for anyone to trust your view point.  I understand YMMV and have experienced it first hand many times over the last thirty+ years of encounters with providers.  Because of this, I like to read several reviews about a provider to form a reasonable composite of her personality, attitude and performance before the first session.  After that I make my own judgment based on my direct experience with her.  

On Point 5:  You are absolutely right.  I do believe that that this hobby really amounts to a business transaction.  If you are hiring a provider to receive love and emotional connection, you are not living in the real world.  The ladies are in this for money.  The hobbyists want a short time physical and mental intimacy and some form of live adult entertainment.  There is nothing wrong with any of this.  But I cannot accept the notion that the ladies who are seeing multitudes of men in a day or a week can fall in love with me or form a long lasting emotional attachment with me.

Ok, thanks....

Point 1, Maybe the term should be FGFE, for Fantasy Girlfriend Experience? Or, just plain FE?

Point 2, Your right. I reread it and your right. I did put words into your sentences. My apologies. What you added to this point makes point 1 more valid. Fantasy, not a girl friend, pure fantasy.

Point 3, 4, 5 all together.... Regardless of the review or what it contains, it's always YMMV. Doesn't matter what I or anyone else puts into a review, what's happened between a man and a woman, even in this hobby, compensated or not only happens between that man and that woman. Just because I or anyone else puts something in a review, it does NOT mean that you will get that same experience or the same session. I don't care what the lady I'm with does for a living, I don't care how many intimate relationships she has had, if she says no review, then it's no review. You said something about your SO, if she had a 100 boyfriends she had been initmate with, would that make it ok to write a review about her in a 'What does your SO do' type board?

I think you get all the details you need in the provider profile, the rest is story telling. I have read reviews that read like Penthouse letters and ring with the same level of truth.

A review process that rewards with free membership days, in my opinion invalidates the review process. Need another 15 days? Write a review, use a Penthouse letter as a starting point.
Oh, and the 2 days it takes to verify a review? None of the ladies I have reviewed has been contacted to verify the details. So, just how do they do that?

But alas, that is another thread....

Cum'on Hot Dog.  You know me-do you think it's all about money and that I see hundreds of guys?  I liked your direct post, but I'm surprised you stereotyped providers (we don't stereotype clients).

Perhaps a great majority of women fit into this category (they have no other mean to make an income but the adult industry), but there are a few of us that just are horny and like to have fun.  Of course we need to meet our expenses and the extra helps, but we are not exposed to hundreds of men (most of us don't have 10 pages of reviews).

As far as emotional bonds, I have experienced a few that still remain over the years.  For some men part of the excitement is the unknown.  The seediness of going to meet a provider and not knowing exactly what to expect.  But for some men seeing the same lady for a long term affair (with perhaps a few other encounters mixed in)is more satisfying.  They know what to expect and they grow to trust the fact that the encounters are truly private and discrete.  Then they can really let go and YMMV is no longer part of the equation which is a blast for both the compensated mistress and the gentleman.

I know, there is so much marketing b/s out there and promises galore.  Some of us would prefer to have no web site and no reviews, but those (the very few) that exploit men with the "come and get me" attitude need to be balanced out, so as much as we'd like to stay underground we feel the need to get our name out there because what we offer is special and not just a revolving door experience.  It's actually an asset to the industry.

Anyway I just wanted to pipe up (as usual) and defend the few of us out there that truly love walking on the wild side.  I was just very surprised to hear you stereotype us all as a group.


Kisses & Hugs, J/K

-- Modified on 1/26/2003 6:14:08 AM

Kate,

In the scientific community they say there is an exception to every rule.  I have known you for a few years now and I know for fact that you truly are the exception to what I have been saying in my posts in this thread.  My point is, hobbyists should understand that for the most part the women in this hobby are there for money.  While it is important to treat them and all other people with respect and dignity they deserve, one cannot expect them to become true GFs or to have emotional attachments with the hobbyists.

Hey, we need to get together soon to discuss your proposal to spank my buns!!!!  So send me a message and tell me about your NY adventures and your whereabouts of late.

As I recall you have cute buns too!  I am sorry for that sour experience you had (thanks for writing).  You really should do a review so you can warn other guys about those two freeloaders!  I think the rip off or warning reviews are much more important for guys to write than all the glorious ones.

Stay well and warm!

Hugs, K/J

To respond to your questions:

Point 1, I want the experience without the commitment and/or the responsibility. By the way, most of my previous girlfriends HAVE performed the things I “expect”, including my wife (well, at least before we were married). As with any type of service provider (telephone, cable TV, etc...) if a particular provider chooses to not offer what I desire, I’ll simply find another one who will. It’s nothing personal, just a sound business decision.

Point 2, This is clearly a matter of opinion, of which you are entitled to form your own, but I’d bet a large sum of $$$, your opinion is in the minority with readers on this board.

Point 3, A particular service provider from ANY industry may desire to not be reviewed, but doing so is certainly not a violation of trust. Consumer Reports would have been out of business their first month of existence if that was true!  

Point 4, So, if your take on reviews is 100% YMMV, why submit any more reviews at all? Whether you “connected” or not with a particular provider, has absolutely no relation at all to my likelihood to “connect” with her. In fact, with your definition of GFE, why are you wasting your (and our) time with this board at all?

Point 5, Wake up… IT IS ONLY BUSINESS. Regardless of what you may think after an encounter, she’s leaving with the $$$. When is the last time a provider refunded your money after a session? The better providers succeed in creating a very realistic and believable illusion of the “connection” you desire. Don’t get me wrong, it’s a nice addition to the session, but to choose either a “connection” or my desired physical services (with high quality), I’ll take the latter every time.

By the way, I’m in my 40’s, not some 20 year old that thinks there’s no such thing as bad sex. I just happen to be honest with myself.

Point 1, your a lucky guy then.
Point 2, maybe yes, maybe no.... But thats what makes America great... we can all have our own opinions.
Point 3, I didn't see GM ask Consumer Reports NOT to review them, did you? The ladies in this biz to me are first and foremost, people. I will honor their wishes to not be reviewed if thats what they desire.
Point 4, yep, thats my point.. reviews, graphic or not, don't mean that what I enjoy about a lady will be what you enjoy. Waste my time and yours? Hey, I've read a lot of reviews for ladies, the truth is always somewhere in the middle. If 20 people write reviews about a lady that match mine? Guess what, there is a good chance that you WILL get the same experience. I sense your lookng for a flame war, so have fun.
Point 5, sit down big boy, here it comes, are you ready for this BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZT wrong again. My wife of 20+ years was in the biz for over 10 years..... I sometimes WISH she had walked away with the money.... Oh, and she would only have been about a 60% GFE on St. Barts scale..... I knew I should have held out!!!!

There are ladies and gentlemen in this hooby that meet significant others all of the time. And for some it is not just a biz....

Have a great day, sounds like you have had some bitter experiences in the hobby.... Or, were you just rooting for the Raiders last night???

-- Modified on 1/27/2003 5:44:13 AM

I think what is being lost here in this discussion is that we are not looking to fall in love,just make a human connection.
These ladies are not a commodities,they are people who love,bleed,feel pain and have families,just like you.Sure,they are providing a service for $ but so do I, and I have developed many friendships with my clients.You gents play it your way and we will play it our way,neither is right or wrong,so long as everyone treats them with respect.
I think I speak for all of us in the silient minority,when I say Magnum,thank for your candor,and the 'nads it took to represent our point of view.

Thank you Smitty. Maybe we in the silent minority should get out for drinks sometime with a couple of our favorite ladies and see if we can't have some fun with our clothes on and no pressure of 'services' for 'dollars'.

Thanks again

-- Modified on 1/27/2003 6:04:51 AM

I as the customer have the right to state my opinion on this board, or anywhere else for that matter. If a provider desires to not be reviewed here, she can request removal from the board through administration. Manufacturers regularly request to be omitted from CR testing, but usually CR does not grant their request. It happens to be CR's right to report.

No, not looking for a flame war, not had a bitter experience in this hobby, nor a Raiders fan. Just someone obviously much more intelligent than yourself.

Oh, and buy the way… Your Point 5 response -  Yea... right. It's really getting thick here now!

Yeppers, you do have that right, as do I, and I welcomed your response and I appreciate your position.

Point 5? believe what you want.... There are a lot of people more intelligent than I am. I have accepted that as a fact my whole life. Soooooooo in the interests of not degrading this to name calling or questioning peoples intelligence, all I will say is..........

Have fun, stay safe

-- Modified on 1/27/2003 6:27:41 PM

Not a bad idea,we could call it 'The Bleeding Heart Hobbyist Club'.

On your point #3 there is a huge difference to doing whatever with a guy in the total privacy of a room than have every grunt, groan and position plastered on a public forum.

I mean what's next...we have to video it and place that on a website so you can be sure of the technique etc.?

You have the right to do what you do but so do the others and that includes how guys write a review and if a lady wants one or not.