I receives several emails/PMs concerning the post below.
Now I decide to stop replying all and this is what I want to say regarding someone's accusation about me outing this person. To keep it short, I just want to tell you these facts and not going to reply more emails/PMs or reply this thread.
1. Sorry for the late comment because I was not sure whether I should do plus I do not have a prove that I didn't do it.
2. I am not a member of National Blacklist, I heard of it a few mo ago that was it. I ask him (this person who accused me of doing such) to email the moderator there to even see if my email is register as a member or was a member.
3. I am NOT the person who put his name/info there. If other people or system did it, well it is out of my control.
4. If someone nc/ns me - and was a very bad nc/ns with "a drama" in it, then I put his info in escort ONLY website. Only escort can access it. No one else!!! Not public website. Yes, I am a member of that site. Now, he said he called me to cancel. If I remember who he is and what was going on, I could easily tell that no, he must not call me to give me enough notice to change my plan and let me waiting and waiting. Unlikely I have many of those. Very rare. So for you all, it is whether you believe him or me.
4. He initially emailed me and I was going to help him out with this issue. After he gave me his info for me to do my search, I told him that I do not remember him at all nor the info he gave me to remind me who he is. While I was in the process of helping him, one of my provider friends PM me about his post in this local board. I emailed him back then that I will not help him since he decided to make it public. For sure the info he gave me now has become a permanent info in my shitlist. My deepest shitlist. If you all forget, FYI: I do not keep client's info during screening anywhere longer than 24hrs after the appt. unless someone hurt/steal/do harm for me. Some of you guys know this is the reason I will not be able to give reference since I use my full memory only remember who is who. Or if you are in my TER whitelist then you can use that as a reference from me. Every client receives a password after we meet and after pass my screening. If they forget the password they will have to go thru screening process again which is fast and painless.
5. Many of you knows me, and you can either believe me or him and I apologize in advance if my post offend anyone here.
6. Thank you for supports around me, all your nice emails and PMs, mean a lot to me.
7. My schedule to visit Boston has not clear yet, I hope some day I could visit again.
8. Although he (you know who I am talking about) is very hateful to me, I hope someday he finds out the truth of the truth that I am NOT the person who put him in National Blacklist and I feel sorry for him. Will, I forgive his accusation toward me, not yet, not now. Maybe I will forgive him someday.
xxxxoJ.
p.s.:
For a provider who said the traveling girls need to make such and such money then will do such thing to a client if they nc/ns and blah-blah-blah, please.... that rule doesn't apply to me. You do not even know me and hey pretty lady, I am always busy and fully booked when I visit Boston. My faithful handsome regulars clients always keep me busy and don't say such about me since you really do not know me and perhaps you call me for a favor someday. Have a wonderful day and mine your own business. Go fix your website, learn new softwares, improve your marketing or help the homeless instead of trashing my name. OK. You can email me if you want free awesome new website. How about that. OK, I am done.
Who gave the escort the fucking god given right to post a mans name and board handles on some board for rapists, murderers and thief's. Please cry some place else because there are guys on those black list boards with there real names first and last so you got no argument no way. A gut goes to an appointment and posts a review she sucked, was fat, smelled and was a shitty lay but got paid $300 for an hour and the guy gagged his way through the entire 60 minutes. Ya he could have left but we know we don't think clearly when we are all pumped up and looking to release some steam. Anyway this is a lame post because I know of at least 5 guys who have marital problems and employees found about the hobby because some bitch had the power to fuck him over and good.
As for the alias? Well figure it out. I am not interested in back channel, emails, being black mailed or what ever the fuck some one dreams up.
Enjoy the nice weather folks.
Now we have a she said he said bicker wars going on.
I'm on the fence about pulling both threads, but the activity and posting interest has spiked to an all time high after months or non posts.
So in the interest of free speech and boredom....let's see what happens.
Perhaps appended if multiple topics are addressing the same issue, but removed entirely?
Members should not have the option or luxury of removing entire threads or valid posts, especially if its merely because it makes them appear unfavorable or if their claims are refuted or diffused by facts (as was the case yesterday with a series of posts dedicated to this topic).
It just makes the entire board appear over regulated, over moderated and untrustworthy.
I think that her account and the client's account are important.
He has every right to be angry (some posters were dismissive of his posts and trivialized his frustration which I found unfortunate).
J also has every right to be angry, she posted a private alert and it was gleaned from that network and appended to a public website without her authorization, compromising the client & causing her to appear impulsive and irresponsible with information.
I too encountered this issue. Today I exchanged several emails with the administrator of the National Blacklist site indicating that I did not support it and I did not authorize public comments about a non-criminal client which appeared following my comments on a private provider board.
The entry was immediately removed and the administrator expressed that this was becoming a recurrent issue.
I must say that I think it is unreasonable for clients to expect that providers will not exchange information.
If a client called me on the telephone tomorrow and he perceived me to be rude- if he returned to a back channel or private reviewer board and said "Despite her good reviews, Ally was a real asshole on the phone with me today and she did not make me feel good. Just a warning to proceed with caution." no one would consider this a violation and this sort of information exchange occurs daily.
Providers who experience troubling exchanges with clients share information; even if this information is inconclusive or unrepresentative of the client's typical behavior it is still valuable and usually, client patterns do ultimately hold true. Obviously it is up to a provider to discern between what is simply irritating and what is true cause for concern; that is something that must be constantly evaluated & developed by each provider.
All that J and any other provider can do at this point is abandon boards and networks which are compromised, including the Provider Only board here and the provider board which J shared her alert.
I think that it would behoove clients to reinforce their privacy by investing in third-party verification systems such as Date-Check & Preferred411, throwaway mobiles and non-corporate / personal email addresses devoted purely to the hobby as a buffer against unreasonable, vindictive entries or entries that are a result of indiscretion by a provider viewing and sharing a provider-only board.
This is a difficult lesson and a very touchy subject- I realize that it isn't in my best interest to even participate in these discussions but I believe in transparency and honesty so that each client can understand the thought process and the evolution of provider practices in regards to privacy. I believe that providers who are truly empathetic and concerned with the privacy of her clients can evaluate each response/perspective from clients, no matter how critical or angry, to develop a better practices.
J- you can petition to have this client removed if you did not place his entry on the National Blacklist.
I do hope that both of you find your resolution.
I enjoy your post all the time. Can you PLEASE PLEASE provide the email address for the administrator of the "Black List" board for the guys that need to plead their case. You are wiser way beyond your years and I always appreciate and respect your feed back and if I did not have to be alias on this one you would know what I am referring to.
I wrote and indicated that I would be willing to email them from my wireless card, mobile and home to prove that my IP address did not submit comments which I originally shared privately.
Michelle was very responsive and took swift action helping to rectify a situation in which I felt helpless.
"Michelle"
[email protected]
"Hi Ally,
It appears there are some do-gooders out there who like to re-post warnings from other websites without the original author's permission. If this was a serious threat, we could understand the need to warn everyone and spread the word about a dangerous client, but in this circumstance, we agree with you in that the report about [client]
is harmless enough and therefore had no need to be here in the first place, so we see no problem in removing it.
As of the sending of this email, the report has been permanently deleted from our database...
Also, we thank you for bringing this unauthorized re-posted report to our attention.
Regards,
Michelle,
National Blacklist Support"
I would suggest that any provider who has ever made a DNS entry or mild warning entry on any private provider board search the Blacklist site for occurrences of their comments about non-criminal clients being exposed there.
I would suggest that any client who has an illegitimate entry there contact the provider they believe the comments originated from and discuss the possibility of her petitioning its removal (within reason obviously- miscommunication over NC/NS, etc).
When i saw this post come up again i was going to write something quirky being the clown that i am.But after reading what Ally did to help someone out was outstanding and i Commend her for trying to end this.Her regard for other people is tremendous.I hope that someone shows his appreciation for her good deed.Great job Ally and great writing,Now can you write some good juicy stuff
(lol)
...At my doing - although I didn't list him there personally my comments were carted away from a private board. Irrespective of how I originally felt about the person in question ultimately it was my fault, no matter how indirect.
I feel better- but I'm certainly not patting myself on the back and its something that has weighed on my heavily for the past two days since this conversation arose.
I have some considering to do to make sure that this doesn't occur again.
I'm off to a dinner date- goodnight all.
... is one reason why whenever you talk, I listen.
Nobody is perfect. All anyone can do is attempt to put right whatever went wrong, and then take steps to try not to let it happen again. That's what you are doing, and that's all that can be reasonably expected. Perfection eludes us in the temporal realm.
This whole situation, though, of third-party providers who have never even MET a client taking it upon themselves to exercise judgment on such things is quite troubling.
I don't know the story behind this situation, but I think the interested parties could benefit greatly from the following websites/resources:
http://www.grammarcheck.com/
http://dictionary.reference.com/
But English is not Jen's first language.
Looks like J is saying her peace, giving her side of the story. I don't know her, and I don't know kz1, but she deserves her say.
None of us know all the facts, and chances are, we never will.
Hi Miss J. You seem very nice. I would like to meet you.
xxxxxx
But this Blacklist is a serious problem, not to be ignored.
1) I would like to see providers go to the Blacklist and start listing their local Senators, Congressmen, City Council members, police chiefs, school principals...ect. Then e-mail these people to let them know where they are listed.
2) Perhaps Mr kz1 would be willing to offer a $5000 reward to any provider that initiates action leading to the arrest and conviction of scumbags operating said board. This may be a cost-effective alternative to your upcoming divorce and/or career change.
What say ye now kz1?
I'm new here but I did read the Blacklist thread before it was "cleaned up."
In that thread it was made clear that once information is posted on this board or the provider's board or in any other place, anyone with access, can take that information and anonymously put it on that national blacklist.
I took at look at that registry. It is real-time and unmoderated. Not only will they not remove a post, they can't. Why? Because once they do anything that even hints at exercising control, moderating, verifying, changing, or removing, etc. a post, they open themselves up to liability.
That registry relies on a Federal Law which protects them from vicarious liability for anything that a third-party posts on their site. Here at TER, because much of this discussion board and all of the reviews are moderated, TER opens themselved up to liability for all third-party posts. It's actually one of the good things that they do, the hold themselves accountable.
Now here's the thing for all of you providers and customers, anyone can go on that board and put anyone else's name up there and write anything they want anonymously and it will stay up there forever. Go ahead and look, there are posts about providers up there as well as the "bad guys."
As clients, we give up our anonymity in order for providers to feel safe, you providers should know that it isn't hard to find out your real name should anyone put some effort into it. The internet makes it virtually impossible to hide who you are from anyone determined to find out who you are. That's just the truth.
Pretty scary for everyone in my opinion. I hope not to get beaten up on this. I have a legal background and I analyzed what I read on their site and looked at the legislation they are hiding behind. As someone who is not involved in any of this, I felt it was important to bring this information to your attention. I hope you all find it useful.
I still cannot actively support a website that cannot control irresponsible information exchange by impulsive providers BUT this mail was just received and I felt I should probably share it with the community.
National Blacklist Support [email protected]
reply-to [email protected]
to "Ally M." [email protected]
date Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 6:50 PM
subject Re: Report has been Removed!
mailed-by nationalblacklist.com
hide details 6:50 PM
Hi Ally,
You are very welcome, and we are glad to have helped out.
You are correct in that posting to a public safety blotter like ours can be problematic, especially when ladies let impulsive feelings take over when they are only posting about less serious or otherwise minor or annoying offenses. We think this happens because there is no set standard for what criteria should be posted on a public blacklist site and what should not.
But we prefer not to tell the ladies what can and what cannot be posted. To respect their free speech rights we prefer to leave that up to them.
While the decisions to report dangerous and abusive clients are pretty much "no brainers," reports about "last minute cancellations" or "no shows" have a differing level of annoyance and varies greatly from provider to provider. Some ladies just choose to close the door on a bad caller and won't take his calls or won't rebook him again, while other ladies think it's best to wait until they've been stood up two or three times before finally reporting the guy as a habitual timewaster. Then there are those ladies who are so pissed about being stood up they post "no shows" right away, and most especially after the guy called to confirm their appointment or to say he is on his way and then he never shows, (because then it looks more like she was a victim of a prank booking, or the guy was only out to get her incall location which compromises her comfort and safety).
While we're sure many ladies would debate about whether a post about a no show or last minute cancellation should be ever posted on any blacklist at all, not one of them has ever denied being thankful for finding such a post because it inevitably would spare her from the likelihood of being stood up, thereby not only losing the money she hoped to earn with that client, but possibly in also losing money from a more serious caller who could have booked with her during that appointment time instead. (You have no idea how many messages we get saying this)
We also realize there is considerable debate with providers over the fact that our registry is publicly assessable including men, while the reports on XXXXXzz and XXXXX11 are kept to their private "escorts only" membership base only. We hear how some ladies feel safer with bad client info being restricted to those sites, but really, how? We felt that those boards were actually insulating and protecting the really bad guys from any real consequences, because the only thing that can happen to them is that they won't get to book an appointment with one of their members, so the guys will continue to call around and just book with a lady who's not a member of those two sites instead. In essence it still leaves many many providers at risk. There is no fear for the bad guys to be listed on XXXXzz and XXXX11 because their memberships are relatively small and very limited in comparison to the enormous number of providers all across our country.
Our website is something to fear and respect because it can wreak havoc on a man's life. Remember when we were kids and if someone was going to do something bad, all you'd have to say is. You better not, or I'm telling!" and that would usually stopped the kid right in their tracks.
That's all National Blacklist is, a place to "tell" on a man for his misdeeds, and if he went though and scammed or abused an escort, his misdeed would come back to haunt him because his family, boos or employers, his friends, and neighbors could learn of his antics just by Googling his name.
Seriously, if you were here to see the numerous emails we get each week from men who are scared as hell and desperate to get their names off our registry, and how they make every promise in the world to not do it again, you'd laugh. These once arrogant scammers and abusers turn into scared children offering anything to just get their name off the list because it's cost them their job, it's cost them from being hired at a new job, its cost them their marriages, their wives and his in laws and immediate family have found out, what ever it is, you name it we've heard it all.
And as these guys share their devastating consequences with their fellow hobbyists on their private boards and the word about our website spreads, we actually think this makes for a good incentive for all prospective male callers and customers to behave accordingly and more respectful in the presence of escorts, actually making it safer for all escorts, even those who are not our members.
Again, we realize it's just a difference in operating philosophy and ladies do get to chose to use or support whatever escort safety services they wish to subscribe to.
But interestingly enough, if you look at the Alexa rankings of all three websites, you'll see we are the most used by far. If you're not familiar with Alexa, I put the most popular websites in order of popularity rank for you to see how it works. The score is like golf, the lower the number the better or higher the traffic rank, and the goal is to be ranked #1. As you can see, we overwhelmingly have so much more traffic and corresponding membership than the other two sites. But it's not likely you'll find many ladies who'll admit it.
Few ladies want to openly admit they use our site for fear of retribution, it is because too many other ladies on the private boards leak information about these reports to their clients, and leak what was reported and who reported it. that's why we do not post who made the reports. Also, most escorts don't hesitate to use us because we do have, by far, the largest database of the two websites, even when the other two are combined.
Anyway, I hear we don't get too much good praise on the private boards but that's mostly because if you say something that board owner or moderator doesn't like, or you openly support the competition, there's a good chance you could get banned and removed from that site. We have none of that politics here. You have a bad experience, you post it. We respect all posters and give all ladies the benefit of the doubt. We don't care if our members are members elsewhere. Hell it's their skins they're protecting, who are we to tell them how or where to do it?
If you ever want to relay any of this information that is fine with us, we just want the truth or a well rounded perspective to be represented about us and what we try to do here everyday.
Sorry if I went a bit overboard in the length of this email. I felt there might have been an opportunity to share information here, instead of the usual misinformation, and of course your feedback is always welcome about anything I written here.
Again, we are glad to have been able to help you and your client today, and we want all providers to know we are honored to be able to help them with their safety screening needs.
Sincerely,
Michelle,
National Blacklist Support
Modified per poster's request.
-- Modified on 11/10/2009 6:26:58 AM
It was very considerate of you to do that, Ally. Hats off to you!
Although, I stand by the rest of what I wrote, in my previous post, I agree that these fine ladies do need to be protected. I just do not believe that the National Blacklist is the way to go about it. I don't have a better way though I wish I could think of one and become rich beyond my wildest dreams. lol.
looks like that site could be someones worse freakin nightmare.
You deserve the gratitude of all TER members for such outstanding community service.
Now I know that you are not only one of Boston's best providers but also a caring one.
I have watched the train wreck of the previous thread and had the opportunity to form and change ( Kate, great well thought out reponses)opinions of some posters.
I will not comment any further except as it pertains to J.
When I first tried to get into the game last year, I had no refs, no contacts, and basically no clue. No one would even talk to me.
I contacted J , and provided required screening info. She welcomed me with open arms and I had a wonderful first encounter.
I then reviewed her, and here is the important part, I only gave her an 8/9 and you know what?
She sent me a thank you email.
Oh, she then, without promt, WhiteListed me.
I rarely post anymore, and rarely white knight, but in this case I will back J 100% based on my experience and the OP history and posts / responses.
I've seen J several times and have nothing but great things to say about her. She's a classy lady with a warm heart. I trust her and can't believe she had anything to do with these allegations. I'll see her again as soon as we're in the same city.
It need to be put down fast, or it will cause more problems.
Just because you thought that it was on a private site does not absolve you. Once you shared his real information, YOU lost control of it. The other Provider who passed it on to the Blacklist site couldn't have done so if YOU had not given it to her through your post.
All you had to do was just give enough information for other providers to contact you for more, or for the other providers to screen the guy out. All it would have taken would be a first name, an area code, and then the last four of the phone number. Even a TER handle. But no, you had to out ALL of his info just because he either canceled or possibly NCNS'd.
Why would anyone give you information that YOU can't protect?
This kind of thing helps make it harder for all providers to screen because it chips away at any trust in providing the information that could ruin the guy's life as he knows it. That's the real shame of this.
This has to be the most asinine post I've ever read. This is exactly what places like Providerbuzz and DZ are FOR. So that provider's can post warnings about men who are not fit to see.
According to what Jay just wrote, she posts warnings on private sites, not the NBL. Hell, she didn't even confirm that she DID post this guy's name as a warning, because she says she doesn't even remember him.
So basically, you think we shouldn't even have ANY kind of warning system. Oh wait, we should use a first name and maybe the last 4 digits of what was probably a pre-paid phone. Yeah, that's real helpful. When I need to screen someone, I'm going to go to DZ and type in their first name and the last 4 digits of a phone number to see if I get any hits. When I get 1,500 hits on the name, but no hits on the last 4 digits of a phone number that has long since changed, I'm going to ASSume the guy must be nice and safe, and welcome a serial rapist into my incall. Great idea!
Go back to your unsafe screening habits so you can use your man pleaser on a serial rapist. Leave the intelligent provider's to continue screening and protecting our safety.
if I just happen to piss you off some way or we have a misunderstanding, then you share it with a thousand other providers on a site. I might as well post it myself for all of the care you are giving it. If I am screening, I expect to be screening with HER, not a thousand other providers.
How in the Hell did you make the leap from cancellation or possible NCNS to a rapist, and how in the Hell did you take my post as advocating for NO provider warning sites or forums.
Or do YOU advocate that ANY transgression should result in an all-out outing of information. No differences, no exercise of judgment. Just Black and White. If he's late, totally out him. If he cancels, totally out him. Whatever he does, treat him like a rapist. Talk about asinine.
Now you have taken it full circle and actually equated him with a rapist, which is what he was horrified about in the first place.
The original issue was NCNS. Since I don't have all the information of what happened between Jay and the original poster, I can't speak to their situation.
I will however say, that you bet your ASS an NCNS merits a warning. As I said in a previous post on a thread lower down, I'm not unreasonable or unrealistic. NCNS's do happen, and are sometimes unavoidable. If there is some sort of follow up and an attempt to make things right, that is totally different. But when a guy sets an appointment, doesn't call, doesn't show, and then makes no attempt whatsoever to contact the lady, or ignores attempts by the lady to contact him, then absolutely, his information deserves to be posted as a DNS. Why should other ladies have to lose income? They deserve a heads up that the guy is a potential flake.
I simply made the point that you were a jackass for jumping all over Jay. Did you not read her post? I realize that English is Jay's second language, so she isn't always easy to follow, but her side of the story is pretty clear. She said she doens't even remember the guy, doesn't post information on NBL anyways, and doesn't remember posting his information ANYWHERE, let alone on the NBL. Yet here you come jumping up and down on her for what some other woman did.
Furthermore, I simply made the point that your assumption that a first name and a partial phone number is adequate as a warning was asinine. A first name only is NOT sufficient. There are only a couple million men named Tom, and if Tom happened to use a pre-paid phone as many men do, then posting a warning that "Tom, phone number 810-xxx-3465 robbed me/raped me/hit me/NCNS'd me" is utterly worthless. Using a provider site like DZ or providerbuzz is ONLY useful when the warning contains complete information.
If it bothers you that some woman might post your information, the solution is very simple. Be a gentleman. Show up on time with the correct donation. Treat her like a lady. Call to cancel if you have to, or attempt to rectify the situation if an emergency does actually come up. Follow those rules, and why should you ever have to worry about a lady posting a warning about you?
the problem is not the posting of a subject,its the bashing that goes on with it.I thought there was alot of progress made yesterday to end the post but obviously not.
a motivated wife could pretend to be a provider right? so what is so private about this "providers only" monniker...nothing, but as for the outing of n/c n/s clients I think they should have a hard time booking as they are chronic time wasters and although not as dangerous as the physically abusive (who's whole indentity can be outed as far as i am concerned)to publish anyones name on a board (any board even if percieved private is plain careless).
If a lady ask for a referance from a verifiable provider than eventually these guys will wise up or run out of referances.
If someone did this to me for missing an appointment even if it was inconsiderate I would retaliate by outing the provider even if it meant hiring a private detective to do so. Luckily I don't see this ever happening as i show up early for my appointment, hey it's not a root canal appointment it is supposed to be fun.
As the sargent in the old tv cop show hill st. blues always said: let's be careful out there.