Well,
Since providers seem unwilling to tell us upfront if they exclude certain races in their clientele, I say we do it in this thread.  No, no more long debates with people talking about their experiences, and all the back-and-forth posts on freedom-of-choice vs. racism blah blah blah.  Having to endure the screening process, two-call system, tardiness of providers, etc. only to get rejected in the worst possible way just plain sucks.  So, let's save future consumers alot of wasted time, anger, and hurt feelings.  I'll start:

[edited by moderator] hates Blacks.

-- Modified on 2/11/2004 7:32:21 PM

...and I say we don't do it in this thread!

In the thread on this topic on the National board, I told the story of an unnamed provider who refused to see black clients as a result of a rape (outside the hobby). Another provider (VickinBoston) replied that she will not see black clients for the same reason. Is this a racist response by these women? Perhaps...However, as long as we don't know the circumstances that led these women to that point of view, we WILL NOT be making a "she hates blacks" list.

BTW...I've never met Vicky, but I'm almost positive that she doesn't hate blacks!

thirsty

I'm black and love myself, lol
my mom, dad, and siblings are black and I love them too
my best friend is black and well you see where this is going

I do have a problem with black men who are interested in me sexually, I never said it was right but it is what it is
i've tried overcoming it and forcing myself to "get thru it" but i felt that it further traumatized me so I just try not to put myself in that situation for now

-- Modified on 2/11/2004 11:20:54 PM

Why a woman might have a policy that included race as a screening tool...  

Several years ago, I had a very good black friend in Atlanta.  She had a policy of not seeing black men.  Why?  Because she was taking great pains to be discreet about her escorting activities, and she was worried that a black client might just end up being part of her social circle and thereby expose her secret life.

Predictably, a number of posters took her to task for "being a racist."  We actually had quite a few spirited email exchanges about this issue.  Her policy was clearly discriminatory, but it had a logical basis.  Was it racist?  Probably not, but there doesn't seem to be a bright line...

Interesting issue...  I tend to side with those who argue for disclosure.  I respect the right of any women to see me or not see me, for whatever real or imagined reson she might have.  But let's be upfront about it!  Life's too short to jerk people around and inconvenience them by turning them away at the door...

Have fun, MG

I agree and I'd actually never turn someone down in person. If they took the time to read my website they would see that I prefer dating caucasion and asian men. I've only had one case where a client turned out to be black, and that person lied to me and said he was a white doctor.
I went thru with the appointment but needless to say it turned out to be a bad decision on my part.

There's the rub MG. Many ladies are afraid to publicly state this restriction. Ironically, the provider whose post brought this issue to the front stated in her ad that she will only see Anglos over 40 years old.

thirsty

If you are so worried about being discriminated against, Why not ask when you inquire about a providers services?  I'm a big guy, I weigh 250, I have a big butt as well as a big pecker!  (At least I  like to think that). I always let the providers know my size, especially the smaller ones. I want to have a good time period! We know what they look like!!! I'm not taking your complaint lightly, It's just this whole escort thing follows different rules, reguardless of what we would like to think. What we are asking providers to do is personal! They have the right to refuse. It's your Money!! I say ask up front? I understand your complaint, and agree with your frustration! However, I just think we as hobbyest should ask up front about services offered as well as services refused.
My 2 cents

I for one would like for providers to say what or who they service.  I am tired of always asking if they see blacks or telling them that I am black.  For one thing it would save me a lot of time, so as I do not need to contact them if I know. I realized that they have the right to see whomever they want, but I just want a little truth  in advertising so that I won't waste their time in calling them

Being a regular contributor to this subject my opinion has become stronger in relation to it and the frustation continues. I did have the pleasore of seeing a provider from a great agency and she kinda laughed it off as being crazy that a provider would feel this was. By the way this was a professional agency and the woman was quite attractive and I had an incredible time with her. Yet after the initial call to set up the appointment I found myself driving up to Boston only to call again to state I was black and did she have an opposition to seeing me and the operator quickly stated no, not at all. As stated before if you have a problem with a race simply state it in your profile. OUT yourself so we all no who the racist and bigots are. If you where raped by someone black I am sorry for this yet in turn what states that a white, or hispanic could or would do it. If he were white would you not see any white clients. I highly think not. I enjoy hobbying yet am so mad that I now feel it an obligation to state I am black, in 2k4. Simply ridiculous.

No, Thirsty, you missed my point, which is understandable given the nature of the internet: you can't account for my tone of voice in a text message. I didn't literally mean that such-and-such "hates Blacks." It was an exaggeration meant for comedic effect. I was merely stating that she doesn't service them.

Look, I could care less why a provider chooses not to service people of such-and-such a race.  Providers have the right to service whomever they want; the 14th Amendment can't apply to illegal activity.  However, she also has an ethical resonsibility to let us know up front so we (ie Black males in this example) don't waste our our time and energy planning for the event only to be insulted and rejected when we get there.  Even economically, it makes sense for providers to  disclose: she (and the agency) may lose money because she had to reject another guy who asked for the same time slot.  So, she gets nothing for that block of time, not to mention she had to tell the consumer to his face that she won't service him because of his skin color: quite awkward indeed!

Now, I'll get to the original point of this post: I strongly suggest that either TER or websites of agencies mention this information about a provider and save people the trouble and aggrevation. I tried to start the trend with this thread, but I guess Thirsty thought it was inappropriate and I respect that.  Still, I think TER should consider my proposal and providers/agencies should make this information clear during the appt. process.  

Unfortunately, this thread has turned into what I wanted to avoid: another series of back-and-forth arguments over racism, girls with emotional hang-ups, freedom-of-choice, etc.  This issue's been been discussed to death on almost 10 different threads already, but there is one lame argument I need to lay to rest.  For the people who argued "I'm not racist 'cause I have Black friends, family, etc.," do know that that argument is overused and underwhelming.  It is possible to have friends or family of a particular group and still dislike that group (and psychological studies prove it).  Let's say Jim hates Hispanics, but his best friend is Hispanic.  Seems like a contradiction?  Well, studies show people like Jim consider that Hispanic friend an exception to the rule and he hates Hispanics all the same.  He;s just learn how to socialize in a way where he can effectively mask his feelings.  Perhaps I should use a more timely example given the recent events in this state.  Republican icon Newt Gingrich has a sister that he loves and gets along with, but that doesn't stop him from fighting tooth-and-nail against gay rights and saying disparaging remarks about them in public.  

No, I am not suggesting the people who made that argument today are racist, so let's not get defensive and start another 10 threads.  Rather, I wrote the previous paragraph to encourage people to forge better arguments.

Ok, time for bed!

The way I read your post...

If a provider doesn't see blacks, she must be a racist. You did not write, "blank, won't see blacks!" You wrote, "blank hates blacks!" Given the nature of the Internet, it's quite easy to infer when your comments are meant to be tongue in cheek. You might have followed your statement with a wink or the abhorrently overused "LOL".

My point is that the ladies might have underlying reasons for not seeing men of a certain race, age or physical type. I wouldn't disagree with you if you said, "Whatever her reason, it is still racism!" However, my point from the beginning has been that many people on both sides of the hobby have difficulty relating to others. Otherwise, we probably wouldn't be here!

thirsty

Thirsty, somehow, you dodged my point yet again!  It's like you're determined to hammer the race issue to obscure the bigger picture.  It's irrelevant why a provider would deny services to me.  Again, her body, her right.  I only ask that I am told of the racial restriction ahead of time so I don't waste my time.  Why, oh why is that simple request seem so outrageous to you???  

Oh and I get along with others just fine.  I do this hobby to satisfy my libido, not enhance my social skills.  I don't think it's wise to paint an entire group as having a social deficit without having anything to back it up. It's purely opinion, and a poorly formed one at best.

-- Modified on 2/13/2004 9:14:58 PM

I responded to a post where you proposed to out providers who, AS YOU WROTE, hate blacks. You tried to back away from this position by pretending that it was written tongue in cheek. I pointed out that, if the statement was meant to be tongue in cheek, you could have easily communicated that fact.  

I suggested that MANY people in the hobby have problems relating to others. You twisted this into my having "painted an entire group as having a social deficit without having anything to back it up." Do I really need to commission a study to convince you that many of the ladies involved in the hobby have been or are currently involved in abusive relationships. As to the gents, all you have to do is read some of the posts on TER. Your social skills notwithstanding, if rejection by a provider leads you to desire to publicly state that she hates blacks, well...I guess I'm wrong. I apologize.

I have never suggested that your request is outrageous. I have instead suggested that it is unrealistic. I'm not a person of color. However, I am disabled. I would love to never encounter an inaccessible building. Would it be outrageous for me to lament that there are places that are physically unaccessible to me? No. Would it be realistic for me to expect such a perfect situation where such barriers didn't exist? ONCE AGAIN, THE ANSWER IS NO!  Ultimately, you have to choose your battles (or your battle grounds). Is it realistic to expect to win this battle in the hobby community?

One final point, if you trace the origin of this ongoing thread on TER, the provider who posted the offending thread, DID INFACT fully disclose her restrictions as to potential clients. Once again, I asking you just to be realistic. After seeing the heat that this provider faced, do you really expect other providers to come forward and publicly express their restrictions as to potential clients.

thirsty

I think TER should include a category that indicates whether a provider will not see certain types of men. Isn't the purpose of this board to make life easier for the hobbyists? Providers might not want others to know that they don't see blacks or fat guys. But I don't think TER should be concerned about this since the board is supposed to make life easier for the hobbyists. I am sure providers would prefer it not be known that they had a bad attitude or their oral skills were subpar, or they had body odor, etc. But this information is posted. Why not a category where it could be indicated if the provider will not see certain guys? Many times it will not be known and this information will have left blank.  But when it is known, why not provide so that hobbyists can be spared the hassle?

I suggested this on the suggestion board, but it was never posted. Makes me wonder...