Or EVER booked an appointment with. The girls did not like my board posts, opinions etc. so they Blacklisted me. It's insane what girls can get away with. It's almost impossible to get OFF one of those lists because most of them are run/owned by angry man hating providers

Or ever booked an appointment with the girl???   WTF is your problem?  Maybe YOU should be put on a DNS or Blacklist Codger????

Blacklists should be reserved for only the most egregious crimes, violence, ripoffs, or Diseases.

I am very close to a provider and am often with her as she is checking out black lists to verify a potential client.  She often lets my nosy self look over her shoulder.

One guy popped up on the black list as a NCNS and time waster, so I quipped "I guess you'll not be seeing him."  Actually, she did end up seeing the person because she is well aware that a lot of gals black list guys for next to no reason and further she is aware of the gals who do that.  She saw the guy and the date was fine.

Moral of the story:  Do not totally despair if you end up on a black list.  As long as you are not tagged as violent, a rip-off or LE, there's a fair chance that the gal will over look misdeamenors and still see you.

It's an imperfect system, but I think it does more good than harm in the long run.

If you have some solid gold references, you'll still be able to see most gals.

Alias should be for obvious reasons here, at least I hope.

I was placed on a blacklist as a "time-waster".  I don't know who put me on it, and for what specific reason.  Likely it was someone I attempted to screen with, but didn't eventually set a date with, because I've NEVER NCNS'd, and have only cancelled a couple dates on short notice.  On both of those dates I made it up to the lady on my next visit.  And by "made it up", I compensated her for her loss to her satisfaction.

So now, and for eterenity apparently, my personal info is out there for all to see.  When that inevitably happens, my world will change, and I mean DRAMATICALLY.  It won't cost me a few hundred dollars; it will cost me my life as I know it.

And for what?  Because a girl spent a couple hours of her time screening me without an eventual date?

Whie I sincerely do appreciate all that ladies put into their respective business, that punishment VASTLY outweighs the infraction.  VASTLY.

The information on blacklists has been copied onto VERY PUBLIC blogs.  If you think you're putting someone on a blacklist that only members can access, you're VERY wrong.

And I've tried EVERYTHING to get my personal info off that blacklist.  Highly reviewed ladies have made attempts, and one even had a phone call with the "operator", where he had alluded that he'd "listen her out".  It turned into a proposal for a date.

Ladies, PU-LLEEAASSEE think long and hard before you blacklist someone.  I agree that Chelsea's case (thread below) was stiff enough to deserve it, but a cancellation, or even NCNS?  Back-channel, start your own DNS list, but let's save the blacklists for the guys that deserve it, the thieves and the dangerous.

By the way, I appreciate Chelsea's having removed the guy from the blacklist, but the dude is still an asshole.  That's the type I'd back-channel the hell out of if I were a provider.

With all the Backpage phony types flooding into the business, good providers must have a means of protecting their business against people that waste their time and try to cheat them out of money. I want quality providers living in my city and visiting my city, that means when they schedule a client, that client must show up and behave like a gentleman. I had a recent appointment where I got held up by traffic. The agency almost did not give me the lady's room number because almost half of my scheduled time was lost. But they gave me the number anyway because I am a good, reliable customer. To make a long story short, both me and the lady worked quickly and enjoyed ourselves. I cleaned up, dressed and left on time, tipping the lady on the way out. Call me soft if you want, but the provider that I met was excellent, I want a list of 20 or 30 of that type that me and other hobbyists have a choice of seeing when they visit. I don't want inconsiderate or dishonest hobbyists screwing things up for me, I want ladies to eliminate them from the poll of clients.

I understand these lists publish real names/addresses/phone numbers.  This means anyone anywhere in the world that googles a name that is on such a blacklist for any reason may find it and start reading about the guy's hobby habits.

When I first heard of these lists I thought it might be interesting to blacklist my local priest, high-school principal, mayor, and other politicians...just to see what happens.  These lists are bad news and need to be shut down. Unfortunately anything that gets shut down on the internet just pops up again under another name.



-- Modified on 9/17/2011 2:32:47 PM

-- Modified on 9/17/2011 2:33:23 PM

It will make things less safe as clients become more and more afraid to give out their personal information. It will also hurt their business as clients stay away from providers who throw people onto the blacklist at the drop of a hat (DNS falls into this category).

IF IT MAKES IT TO THE INTERNET, IT IS THERE FOREVER!

Who do you think is more likely to provide their personal information, someone with nothing to lose or someone with a lot to lose? Which is more likely to be the client you want to see?

I have personally established a base of references, both agencies and indys, that I try to use when I see someone new. In the last two weeks I had to forgo seeing 2 ladies I wanted to see because they still wanted my last name. However, because of the abuse of the blacklists, I no longer give that out. Maybe not a big deal, however if the blacklist abuse continues, many more may be following in my footsteps.

my 2 pennies

Kudos to Boston International! They will continue to be on  my list.

Everything about your post suggests that clients private information is not protected. You cannot even use your regular handle for that post and your telling clients not to worry that their personal information is up on a blacklist? Huh?????

i don't believe that crap, you likely did something you are not saying .. hiding behind a allies. i have not put anyone on the blacklist(s) yet but i should have.

I bet the gals will tell a different story! and i don't hid my name.

I responded to an ad for massage on backpage. the only communication was through emails as she did not provide a number. And even though i gave her mine she never called.

i provided my infomation as requested. we never set up a time to meet. she emailed me back that i checked out and when did i want to set up an appointment.  as my schedule was a little hectic at the time i did not respond to her email for three days when i did she informed me that i was blacklisted.  for not getting back to her quick enough. we never had an appointment i still had no idea where she was located and yet i was blacklisted. and the national black list was okay with that. my info was their site for not calling someone back.

i emailed them explaining the situation to no avail.  

if any providers think that is an appropriate punishment for my crime please let me know so i can avoid booking . if you read my reviews i have posted a fair amount of reviews with both agencies and indys and no problem i was blacklisted by someone i never met or set an appointmetn with. i just inquired

Wow, I had no idea that this kind of stuff was going on. Are the blacklists part of this site, or separate? Do I understand it correctly, providers can post personal information of clients on public sites based on nothing but their unsupported assertion that he acted badly? That is crazy! It could be the whim of an unbalancd provider (There are some, you know, I've met a few!), revenge for an on line post that annoyed her. Are there no methods of challanging a spurious listing? All it would take would be one guy wrongly listed with nothing to lose then getting a lawyer... that would end this fast. Or... listing a guy with mob connections! ~LOL~ I have not been active in the hobby for a long while but I was going to start up again. I will think twice about becoming active again now, it is not worth this kind of risk. I just paid for a VIP membership, and now I know I may have wasted my money... I might not be using the services. This is why you have to be insane or have a death wish to let a provider or agency know both your real identity and your TER ID ... at least until you know them really well!

The traffic had held you up to the point that you couldn't make it, and she put your idiot ass on a public blacklist?

You support the notion of putting ME on a blacklist for minor infractions so YOUR sorry ass can have a better POOL to draw from?  Meanwhile I, potentially, struggle through the wake of a public outing so you can dip your wick in a hottie?

Yeah, the hobby is fortunate for folks like you....NOT.

To be CLEAR, I support the blacklisting of ROB and dangerous men.  Otherwise I support BostonIndependent's approach, above.

Ass if a provider sees me or not.  I don't want my FAMILY to know.  Jesus, read the OP again.

Look, if you want to be that paranoid to the point of not hobbying, be my guest.

But for those who are thinking that a listing on a black list is a lifetime death sentence for the hobby, guess again.  If it were there probably wouldn't be a hobby.

And no, the black list is not a part of TER.  There are at least half a dozen national black lists and many, many local ones as well.

i was put on the national blacklist  by a popular provider . For a BS reason. I found out a year later when I googled my name . all my info , birthdate , etc .BUUUTTT , when you looked up my name , the next guys info popped up too (you know how different things pop up with the things you search) , and , lo and behold , he beats up and rapes prostitutes . SO , my name, with his info , all at once . THe provider involved said her friend got my info and decided to put it on this website . Right! So , after complaining a while later my name was still there but somehow another guys stuff came up , because , get this , somebody must have tried to fix it by inserting either a phony bad review of somebody , because it was over a year later and a newer one came up instead of the rapist one . Get it?

1. Where is this "blacklist"? Do they post it on here somewhere? How do you know if you are on it?

2. How can you get off of it?

When you NCNS, you are costing a provider money. Often, there was another client that wanted that time slot who they had to turn away. The high incidence of NCNS in this business is the reason that so many providers will double or even triple book. Is it really so difficult to pick up the phone, or send an email, and let the provider know that something came up and you can't make it. At least give them a chance to contact that client they had to turn away and see if they're still available.

We don't have many NCNS, but back when I was independent, it used to happen multiple times on a daily basis. Maybe agencies don't get as many NCNS, or maybe it's because back when I was independent I didn't ask for references before booking with clients.

There's always three sides to any story; His side, Her side, and the truth. We'll probably never know the truth in this case.

I have seen the national blacklist and don't even want to think about it.

It's like...if you even look at it, the phone will ring and you will die in 7 days.

debate is good.
Now the problem I see is its a he said/she said situation when it comes to Blacklisting and we all know some ppl are just mean n will blacklist a client to be an asshole/
Regulation is difficult.

Yet at the same time there are really good reasons to blacklist some and honestly, theft of over $200 in any case is grand theft and in the real world your name would go in the paper you'd get arrested your life would be ruined.
Theft of a provider I see as even more disturbing, you steal from them thinking you can get away with it. Its a bully tactic picking on someone who cant call the cops.  I'll bet they don't walk jut on a check in a restaurant. Its pure bully moves.
Its intentional and it is aggressive.
I do believe blacklisting is deserved.

Bottom line   behave yourself n u have nothing to worry about.

Every alias that is in disagreement with you does not belong to a single person.

Instead of being irrationally preoccupied with the "who" you should be concerned with the "what".
If that is beyond you at the very least get your facts straight with the moderator before making yourself look like a fool.

Each of us in this thing of ours has the capability of being a loaded gun.  If you can't figure out why I think we should all be mindful to keep the safety on over things like a few hundred dollars here and there (really now, how often are we victimized by clients who don't pay or NC/NS compared to how many successful meetings we complete) well you know what they say.

Live by the sword, die by the sword.

www.dangerzone411.com    which is run by Ciara of Buffalo

www.nationalblacklist.com    which is run by Michelle

www.verifyhim.com    which is run by 'the boss'

www.badboyclientlist.com   which is run by Gia

Heard of one guy who might be able to help   (www.wix.com/hobbyistdefender/hobbyistdefender)
but I am not on any of these lists yet so I don't know for sure

Over the past several days this story has just taken on a life of its own.  

Now its being taken to a personal level with you attacking another provider and whining that her thoughtful and measured comments about Blacklisting in general are because:  

"...she just don't like me so she could not resist to post something like that under my post. She is going against the grain, not good at all!"  

Get real Chelsea.  

You opened two threads about the topic, you brought a serious issue before the board and now that you don't like the fact that all providers won't jump in line lockstep behind you, you now take it personal?   Come on, there is no need for that kind of action.

As the OP you originally stated it was a long time regular who walk out and stiffed you, not leaving the donation.  You stated, lesson learned, and now everyone will need to produce the donation up front.   Fair enough.  That’s how it should be done in the first place and if both parties had followed customary protocol there wouldn't even be a discussion.   But they didn't.   And the asshole decides to leave without paying.      

You brought the issue here and while continuing to pursue the culprit by phone there was the additional pressure on the foolish asshole by the members of the board and Boston hobbying community in general that his actions weren't not going go un-punished.  As is expected you shared his name with your peers in the Boston market and soon you got the desired affect.   The guy knew his name would be mud with other ladies in this market and he made good and even though his story appears to be a lie he sealed his own fate with any of the providers you shared his information with.  All of this was legitimate.

When you opened the second thread with an update, the discussion became one about what merits being Nationally Blacklisted and what standards should be applied since this a VERY serious issue for Ladies and Hobbyist alike.

BostonIndependent brought up some thoughtful points regarding what issues are serious enough to merit Blacklisting.   She stated her opinion and why she felt this way.   I for one am glad she brought this discussion to light.

Among some of the valid reasons:
Physical Harm and Rape and even Robbery and theft of personal property but even at that she suggested degrees of seriousness.

Your response was. "If a provider skips out and takes the money without giving the service we get bad reviews and get talked about on the review board"    

There is the big difference,  One that seems t get lost in this discussion all the time.

Its a fucking review of a stage name with NO personal information and this is not available to general public through google search that your family members, neighbors and co workers could stumble upon.

Is it wrong for anyone on either side of the coin to steal?    YES!
Is it OK to review a Provider and tell everyone she took the money and ran?    YES  
Is it OK for you to come here in a relatively closed circle community and state the incident and to talk among your peers about the incident giving them the heads up?    YES

No one is in disagreement about these fact.   The issue BI is bringing up and one that should be very important to all of us is, does one incident merit National Blacklisting with all that is implied and all the damage that can ensue?

I have to say an EMPHATIC NO!   And I appreciate that BostonIndependent tried to articulate the reasons why.   it was refreshing to see that not all Ladies in the industry are hot heads.   I can even see in these thread where she tried to contact you personally to explain her reasoning and to let you know this wasn’t personal it was just a open discussion.  

Now YOU want to make this personal because you don’t agree?   Do I sense some combative, insecurity here if so who is exhibiting it?

What became really REALLY sad was the ensuing dicussion about what merits of National Blacklisting and to think that some people, on either side of the coin think its OK to Blacklist clients who NCNS really sticks in my craw.

There can be dozens of reasons why someone NCNS, some valid, but many more just poor manners, immature even irresponsible behavior.  Does that merit BLACKLISTING?

Well I want to see the name of every provider on this or any board that thinks so.  Because I for one want to know exactly who you are so that I never EVER make any attempt to see someone who is so petty, hotheaded and vindictive over something as trivial as a missed appointment.

I've missed Dr appointments, forgot about hair cut appointments, missed scheduled car servicing appointments and the list goes on.   If I scheduled a hair cut appointment that I forget about it should I expect to find my name on an National Blacklist whose sole purpose is to tell the world about dangerous and threatening people?    

Do I expect that when I try to reschedule that appointment there will be something I'll need to do to make the situation right?  Of Course.   Just as when I miss an appointment with a provider, if I want to see her again, I'll need to make the situation right if I accidentally NC\NS.

There are more and better ways to punish immature rude NC\NS behavior than National Blacklisting.   You and every provider need to remember this is not a level playing field.  You are all working under an alias, a stage name.  We have no idea who you really are and we don’t demand personal information like where we live, where we work etc in order to meet with you.   You have a higher responsibility what you do with that information than a man does when he writes a bad review.

Look at the other side of the coin for just a minute all you providers who are so quick to say NC|NS is a Blacklisting offense.  There is one provider here in Boston who has a notorious reputation for NC\NS.  Raynak’s flaky behavior is extremely well documented for anyone who cares to search.   Her professional reputation under tha name Raynah is out there for everyone who cares to look.    But what if some guy got her real name and personal information and placed it on a Blacklisting site so that anyone in her family or neighborhood or whatever with google search feature could  type in her name and find out she was a hooker and find everything about her good and bad, and there is plenty of both out there.  (Although her reviews suggest her service is much better than her punctuality)

Do you or any other Boston provide think that is fair?   Let get real here.  

NC\NS  is NOT a Blacklisting offence.  If that’s the game any of you ladies want to play state it now because I want to avoid you and your business like the plague.   I have never NC\NS anyone on this business and I hope there never comes a time I do, but if it ever happened that it did and I found my name on a national Blacklist I would be extremely pissed.

Just as it should be against TER rules to wrongly out an Alias and not have your facts straight. (maybe not, too many foolish rules already)

I am a hobbyist not a provider.

And I still don't see why you want to make this personal just because another provider wants to share her thoughts that are different than your own.

You were stiffed on a donation, you posted here, you rightly sought your donation and you got it.  All this is legitimate.

When the discussion turned to Blacklisting for NC\NS and someone disagreed with you, you decided to get personal.   That is childish, and poor english skills have NOTHING to do with it.

I gave the second one the once-over and saw a listing "Gives ladies very low review scores"... I am not making this stuff up! The system of publicly shared reviews could be endangered by this. Another reason for me to reconsider renewing my hobby life, this could get real ugly. It is a ticking time bomb!

I don't wanna jump to blacklisting conclusions with people but I had a really bad timewaster who canceled under 3 hours notice and wouldn't reimburse me the $100 for my Zipcar. He then made and canceled an OVERNIGHT.

I was on P411 last night and saw a girl had okayed him as of 9/16, mad

Should we remove review sites as well? After all, they can be just as damaging to a provider as a blacklist can be to a hobbyist.
They both have their place, they can both be abused. It's an imperfect solution, but it's all we have to work with. If someone can think of another way to do it, please feel free.

theres always someone that goes over board, theres always someone who takes advantage.

I understand its not always fair but that doesnt mean the whole process is bad.

I do believe some ppl behave as to NOT end up on the blacklist.

For the most part, those on that list DO belong there.

You'll see that I started out IN YOUR CORNER.  Go back and look; I said that I was glad you took him down.  That said, I also respect that you blacklisted him THE RIGHT WAY, and FOR THE RIGHT THING.  In other words, you didn't out his personal/family info, and you did it because he was a thief.

But as the thread has trundled on (am I writing like a sissy?), you've gotten more and more vehement about "sticking together" and outing guys.

All I said in my OP is that people's PERSONAL info should not be outed on any list for simple infractions like "time-wasting".

This thread may help bring about a reasonable consensus, at least to some degree, in the local market for guys and girls.

Hopefull girls will think twice about blacklisting a guy for a rather benign infraction, and guys will think twice about mistreating ladies.

That's what this thread was intended to be about.

http://www.theeroticreview.com/discussion_boards/viewmsg.asp?MessageID=153883&boardID=9&page=2

And Boston Independent doesn't even appear in that thread...

Seems you have a short memory honey.  And less of an awareness that your words are available for all to see.  

Never once did BostonIndependent try to defend the perpetrator and even said to you,
in the second thread on the subject...

"If you utilize DNS lists or feel that its appropriate to place legal identities on the internet over occurrences like these?
I respect your opinion."

Why are you so intent on trashing another provider, one who interjected some thoughtful, intelligent and meaningful issues into a serious discussion?

You don't need to answer that, Its obvious it's all about petty jealousy.

"let the punishment fit the crime", or at least that's the way I read it.  She also suggested using other means at her/your disposal, which you did successfully.

Any erosion in civility beyond that was an unfortunate challenge of positions.

I find her approach fair.  

Inasmuch as I would never, EVER stiff a lady (or NCNS, knowingly "time-waste", or otherwise harm a lady), I think your approach was fair also.

But one thing you need to KNOW: these lists get copied from one to the other, and some of them exist for extortion purposes, NOT ladies safety.  It is nearly IMPOSSIBLE to get off them.  Just because YOU might have taken a guy off the list YOU put him on, doesn't mean he didn't get transcribed to another list without you knowing it.

can cost a guy his whole world, if he's outed totally.

...and keep my distance from her. National Black List has a harsh ideology that assumes the provider is a victim, a clear invitation for a provider to game the system. I haven't looked in the Newbie's Handbook pages lately but maybe I should see what they have to say about the danger of a zero-tolerance zealot provider doing the irreversible in a fit of temper.