I am in the market for a new computer. I have a PC now and am happy with it but is WAY outdated.

I have been doing a bit or research but would love to get your opinions and your experiences. I am leaning toward an iMac.

Sofia, I know you have a Mac. What do you think of it? Any others care to help me out?

xoxo
B

Well, Well, It all depends upon how much you want to tinker with, if you like tinekring with and like to live with crashes, viruses, etc then, nothing can beat a PC.

If you want a good quality machine that works when you want it to work and don't crash, no virus attacks, fast, good qaulity Video, stereo, etc., then Mac is the way to go. Price wise don't beelieve waht is advertised, by the time you get all the stuff you need, you end up paying more for it any way.

Been using a Mac for 17 or so years and have an iMac and a 17" powerbook, love em both. Have 2 PC's also, what pain, always have to tinker with it. Order from Mac Mall or Mac House and you will save about $100.

Hope this helps.

Your "tinkering" may be the cause of all of your pc frustrations.  Regularly scheduled maintainence and updates on your PC should keep it running like a champ.

If you are computerphobic, then you NEED a Mac.  If all of those buttons on your mouse freak you out, then you WANT a Mac.  If your needs are limited to graphic-design, web-design, and no-frills email, then you can LIVE with a Mac.  If you only need the 10% of the products on the market that are Mac-compatible, then you can SETTLE for a Mac.  If you believe all the lies Mac users tell you about their Mac never crashing, then you DESERVE a Mac.  

Most viruses are written for Windows, because most computers use Windows.  Why waste your time writing a virus that will only shut down a few hippy communes?  Most Mac users are fiercely loyal to Steve Jobs and Apple.  Not because their computers are vastly superior, but because they aren't made by Bill Gates and Microsoft.  I've got some bad news for you, Sunshine.  Microsoft owns a piece of Apple.

I will confess one advantage OSX has over WindowsXP, that cheating motherfucking chess game!  Damn that thing!

I agree with tripNatl.  I have been working with personal computers professionally for over twenty years and currently own an IT consulting business.  Here is a way of determining whether to use MAC or a PC.  If you want to buy a computer that is easy to use, never upgrade it, and never buy any more software then what came with it: then use a MAC.  But if you want a computer which is easy to upgrade (i.e. operating system, RAM, etc), and for which software is constantly being developed then buy a PC.  In my business, about the only people who use a PC are graphic artist and publishers.  But about half of them tell me that for thier next purchase they will buy a PC.  Before you buy one, contact me and I will be glad to help you choose which one to buy and probably can get you one much cheaper then you could.

-- Modified on 8/17/2003 5:38:02 PM

Not worth a response.

Like Albert Eienstein once said:

"One can prove anything and everything with ABSURD LOGIC" and TripNatl's argument seems to follow the pattern!

I've never had a Mac. The reason being, for the type of applications I use, there is no software that will work on the Mac.

I do business with many graphic arts people, at work they use a Mac, but for general purpose every day things, they use a PC.

As much as I dislike Microsoft,(Mac doesn't keep up with software applications. If the software I use ever does work on a Mac, I'll buy one in an instant!

Perhaps you should look at what you will be using your new machine for, and make your determination from that point. Take your time.

I'm kinda curious what applications people are running, that they can't find an Apple equivalent? Even MS makes it's office suite for Mac. Adobe makes all of it's apps for Mac, and so does Corel, Quicken, Symantec and others.

I've also been in the business for many years. I have worked on many different types of computers with many different OSs. Of all the Mac users I've spoken to, none have had anything bad to say about their Mac. Yes, you won't have to upgrade as often , because Apple believes in backwards compatibility. (a foreign concept to MS, but hey, fighting lawsuits is an expensive business)

PCs have two advantages. They are cheap. Disclaimer: Macs will come with much more software out of the box than a PC will, so be sure to figure software costs before you purchase. And you can go into any store and buy software for them. And yes, upgrades are easy, because new software may (and in many cases will) require more RAM, more HD space, better graphics card etc. So upgrades become necessary. Oh, and let's not forget how easy and problem free upgrades are! lol!

The key to happy PC ownership, is keeping your patches and virus definitions current. Thus avoiding security problems. MS upgrades its operating systems every two years. My best advise, if you go with a PC, buy a new one evey two years. This will greatly reduce the headaches of keeping your system problem free and running into compatibility issues with new software.

What do I use? A multi-booting PC running Windows, Linux, and BeOS. Yes, I do like to tinker!

I don't know which business application you are talking about. Microsoft Office a.k.a Office X is available for Mac. Office x has many features that are not available in the PC Version.

I run business applications, graphic applications, on my Mac, everything works just great. They are absolutely portable between the two paltforms.

The following applications and software are available for Mac and I would like to know which business applications you are reffering to, I am just curious to know.

Office X- Microsoft Word, Excel, Power Point and Entourage (covers most PC business applications) By the way Entourage is by far the best Email application I have seen. It is surprising it is from Microsoft and is not available for PC!


Microsoft Outlook and Outlook Express. Outlook express is available for free download at Microsoft, Macotopia site.

Adobe- Acrobat, Freehand, Photoshop, Web Devloper.


Macro Media

QuarkExpress

Correl Draw

Canvas

Mathematica

Quick Time

Microsoft Media Play

If you are into games:

Every single Microsoft Games are available for Mac

Every other Major Games are avilable for Mac. One other thing, all you to do is load the program, no need to go buy a Video Card sound card, etc like for in PC.

If you are into music, you can down load music tracks you want from the Mac Music store for 99 cents a song and Burn your own CD instead of going to the store and buying a CD for $9 to $15 dollars to get just one song. One click, it plays the music, another click down loads the music.

If you are buying a G3, saves lot of space on your desk top. You can one with 15" or 17" LCD screen that can be adjusted to fit your fancy very easily. It is very quite, don't ev3en have a fan to make any noise.

As far as speakers go, G3 comes with Bose speakers, small, hardly takes up any space.

As far as the set-up is concerned, it will take you more time to open the box. Once you unpack, plug in Power Cord, key board and mouse and you are ready to go.

Comes with a great Calendar and if you become a member .Mac, you can back your  you entire disk using a iDisk you will never loose any of your data. Oddly enough, the synhronization can be configured for automatic backup and you can put in back intervals. You will also get a secure mail.

As I mentioned, before, I have both PC and Mac. I can honestly tell you my 833 Mhz iMac with 256 MB SDRAM and 80 Gig Hard Disk runs circles around my 1.8 Ghz Pentium PC.

By the way, I am not a novice either. I have Masters Degree from Ga Tech in Electrical Engineering and Computer Science and is Practicing Engineer and been at it for 15 or so years. So please don't go off on me and tell me how stupid I am and i don't nothing about technology. So Chill.

I'm a PC biggot but what I'm about to say is fact.  Mac is the best way to go as far as stability.  It's current operating systme is built on Unix and there are very few hacks that have been done on it and very few patches needed.  Now having said that here are some points.  There aren't as many programs available for Macs but all the mainstream stuff is available.  There aren't as many Mac experts around so help is a little bit harder to find.  Mac's are just a bit more expensive than PC's.

Now on the PC side.  If you don't tinker with it and you keep up with the patches and a good Virus program, Windows XP is a good OS.  Just takes a little more work to keep it stable than a Mac does.

Semper Fi pretty lady (you know who this is)

Microsoft just announced they will no longer make any new version of Office for the Mac OS

I debated on whether or not to reply to this, for this really is not the forum.  However, I couldn't resist....  

It is obvious that you are a Mac person... that is not a bad thing, nor am I flaming.  I am fairly neutral except when it comes to programming and gaming.  To set the stage, I actually own two Macs that I run SCO UNIX on (and five PCs, but who's counting)...  not bad machines overall...  However, they can't touch any of my comparable PCs as far as performance goes.  You can check any benchmark to see that Macs can not out-perform a PC.  And please, do not use the G5 as an example.  Apple loaded up that benchmark so they could say that the G5 is faster when in fact, it is not.  (Do a google search if you do not want to take my word for it - you will find many sites that re-run the benchmarks).

From a power-users POV, the PC is what I need.  I've tried using C++ compiliers on Macs and I'm just not happy with them...  nor am I happy with compile time...  Is that a pure Mac issue?  Not really, it's just preference.

As for gaming (yes, I do game), the PC is the king.  Sorry, I will not even accept an arguement here.  The only reason you would have to change a video card in a PC is if you wanted IMPROVED performance.  You would have to do the same in a Mac.

However, none of this really answers the question that Brooke originally asked...  Brooke:  you can get either one.  If you are used to a PC, get a PC, if you are used to a MAC, get a MAC.  PCs, overall, seem to be cheaper, but not by much.  Tippu is correct when he says the same software is generally available on both platforms...  There is no 'wrong' choice here.  I will say that the Macs are harder to mess up because they give the common user a little less control...  but otherwise, they are about the same.

Let me try to clarify my needs, wants and what I don't want in a computer.

I want to be able to use presentation programs like PowerPoint or another program similar for work. I need an accounting program like quickbooks. I also need it for a a database program for my marketing clients. There are others but nothing too complex.

I don't like to update my virus programs, security programs, etc.
I don't want to worry about having to update my windows every time I turn around. I hate that! I do it but would rather not.

I want a rather worry free computer in which I can add programs to it and do my work. This is soley for my business. Not for my Hobby fun. I will use my old computer for surfing and answering emails for that.I am not a game player except for the ones that are already on the computer (sorry, I can't even play Mario Brothers! lol).

As you can tell, I am not a "heavy" user, nor one who wants to fuss with it.

Maybe this will paint a clearer picture as to my needs and wants.

xoxo
B

Mac doesn't eliminate the need for updates.  The number of virus definition updates is about the same as a PC, the number of operating system system updates is substantially less. All the programs you need are available for a MAC you just have to buy them all again as opposed to the probability that your existing software on your existing PC will probably run ok on a new Windows XP system.  So there is the cost of new software as well as the cost of the MAC itself

I absolutely love my Mac.  My SO got me into them, and they are good for so many things...If you are used to using a PC, and use alot of PowerPoint, you may want to stick to a PC...But if you go to the Apple site, it tells you how easy it is to switch over.  You can do as little or as much as you want with a Mac, I never get hit by viruses like Windows users do, and it is so easy to use.  I could use my laptop for so much more, but don't need to right now.  There are plenty of downloads and software you can use, and even platforms where you can work Windows programs like PowerPoint.  It's just what you would like to work with.  Definitely go to the Mac site and look around, and good luck!!!

Sofia

qouted from byno
"Microsoft just announced they will no longer make any new version of Office for the Mac OS "

This is incorrect. The agreement MS had with apple to make Internet Explorer has expired and MS will not renew because they feel the Mac browser better serves Mac users. They are going to continue making the Office suite for Mac, as it happens to be one of the Macs best selling programs.


tecn

Hey Brooke..what I find so funny is that you wouldn't have gotten more response at a KKK rally if you trotted out Al Sharpton as the guest speaker.  The PC/Mac debate is so sensitive to some it's like talkin' about their mama.  Great reading though.  I hope you got your answers. I've been in computers since the late 70's.  Hell..anything that works, honey. But you are getting a varied response from this board.

Ok, seriously this time.  The applications you need are Microsoft Office Suite, Norton Internet Security (includes Antivirus, Firewall, Popup blocker, and Spam filter), and QuickBooks.  All of these programs are available for Windows or Macintosh.  You will still need to download regular updates for your operating system and especially your antivirus software regardless of which system you choose.  WindowsXP has already been updated to service pack 1, and Mac OSX is about to be updated to 10.3.  For the user who doesn't want to deal with it, Windows now includes a feature called Automatic Updates.  You can set it up so that your only involvement is to click Yes to restart.  Updating the Mac OS is almost as simple.  In fact, everything about a MAC is designed to keep you out from under the hood as it were.  Office XP is fantastic on a PC.  My favorite new feature is having all of my reminders come up in ONE reminder window.  You have no idea how much I LOVE THAT.  Office works almost as well on a MAC.  Other than the usual Office problems (which people usually bring upon themselves), the only problems I've seen with the Mac version is when you need to share files with PC users.  The two versions may look and act similarly, but don't let that fool you.  These are two completely different programs, they are after all written for two different operating systems.  That can sometimes cause some very weird problems, like randomly generated file names. (hate that one)  None of that should affect you.  I'm just rambling a bit.  Norton also runs fine on both operating systems.  I can't speak for a Mac on this, but Norton Real-time virus scanning will noticeably affect your PC performance with processor intensive applications.  I would assume it does the same on a Mac since it is scanning every file the computer accesses.  I usually disable mine before doing anything cpu intensive, i.e. playing video games.  Again you shouldn't be affected much by that.  I have never seen QuickBooks used on a Mac, so I can't say anything other than there is a Mac version.

You question comes down to how much you want to be ABLE to get involved in the performance of your computer.  Either WindowsXP or MacOSX will run perfectly fine without you getting involved.  Windows will allow you to remain as oblivious to or delve as deeply into (short of the source code) the operating system as you feel comfortable.  If you don't know what you’re doing (and even if you do sometimes), you can kill your pc.  Mac keeps it simple.  Installing applications is as simple as drag and drop.  With their betrayal of the Mac philosophy in OSX, Apple has made it much easier to find applications that work with their now Unix-based system.  It is no longer LegOS.
Why, they've DOUBLED their available products all the way up to 6,000!

We've established that I prefer a PC to a Mac for everything except digital video editing and chess, but let's put that aside for a second.  The applications you need to use regardless of operating system are: Microsoft PowerPoint (there is no real equivalent), Microsoft Access (database), Microsoft Outlook (Entourage for Mac), Microsoft Word, Microsoft Excel (spreadsheet), Norton Internet Security 2003 (includes NAV, Firewall, etc.), QuickBooks.  Other applications you may find you need if you are involved in your web-design and upload include Macromedia Homesite (HTML editor), Macromedia Studio MX (VERY expensive flash software suite usually only purchased by dedicated webmasters), WS_FTP Pro, Adobe Photoshop, and Adobe Illustrator (web graphics). Every program I mention here except WS_FTP is available for either Microsoft's Windows or Apple's Macintosh.  You aren't running a HVAC system, managing a large inventory database, or running an air traffic control system, so anything you need should be available for either.  5 of the 7 programs you definitely need are Microsoft programs.  

Those are the facts as "fair and balanced" (hope Fox News doesn't sue me) as I can put them.  Shop around.  Play with both systems.  Buy the one you feel more comfortable with.  Ok, that's about all the seriousness my ADD brain can handle for one day.  Now for one last jab at the Crapintosh.  

-- Modified on 8/18/2003 5:52:01 PM

I suppose it is time to go to the retail stores and see which one is best suited for my comfort level and my budget.

I can't thank you all enough for your information and help!

I will let you know what I decide on.

Thanks gents and to you as well Sofia.

xoxo
B

OK here is the straight answer.

You can get Office x for Mac. Standard Microsoft Office Suite (Word, Excel, Power Point, etc.

Quicken: Quick Books Available, (Power Book 17" comes (pre-installed with quick books). Quicken Money pre-insatlled on mostm other  MAC Models

You don't want upgrade: Get a .Mac memebership. 1 year ~$99. Set the Mac up auto update for once a week. It will show all the software updates available, select what you want, click install, go get a cup of Coffee (i.e if you like cofee, Orange juice is fine also) come back, it is done.

Same thing for Virus. When you join .Mac, you get Virex free of charge. You get to back up all your files, Calendar, Phone Book, etc.. Imagine never loosing your address book and calendar, oh what a wonderful thing!

If you use Safari (browser for Mac) has great security features. You can set it up clear all Cookies when you quit.

Set it up to block all of those pesky POP up windows when you browse. Works great.

MAC Mail program has a great feature for blocking SPAM. Just got message window and choose bounce to sender, automatically creates filter list and you will never hear from that spammer again.

All in all, if you want to make your life less complicated by adding nice little features to make you Cyber Life more enjoyable, you may want to consider the some of these features.

Better yet, got the Apple store at Lennox, spend a couple of hours. Great people, great ambiance, good music and festive, you won't be bored and can  spend couple hours browsing around!

No problem exchanging file or documents between Mac Office X and Microsoft Office Suite for PC's. Word, Excel, PowerPoint all works fine. have over 500 PC's at work and 200 Mac's we all exchange documents without any problems. All of  my Engineering Staff uses Mac, while all marketing weenies use PC's, Wonder Why?

Quickbooks and Quicken Money runs fine.

Norton doesn't work very well. Use Virex instead. I would recommend joining .Mac and extend your support for 3 years for $99 to $129. Another surprise is, when you call tech support, you actually get a knowledgeable human being on the other side, who can actually help you with a problem. Now try calling Microsoft Tech support with real problem. Rated #1 tech support by Consumer Reports.

OS X 10.3 is major relaease not an update. Nothing to do with security or other, avilable later this year. Current OS Version is OS X 10.2.6. No bugs, been using it since last fall. Basically Apple is tweaking performance and adding more user friendly features and integrating on-line music store.

As far as database is concerned, Mac is shipped with Apple Works, and has a Data Base. If you are looking for simple and easy to use Database, it will do just fine.

Appleworks also has Word Processing, Spreadsheet, and presentation programs (Power Point) all exchangable with Microsoft Office for PC. Have not found any problems with it either.

Calendar and address book: you can have as many as you want with Mac Mail and individually Password protect them with different passwords.

Another great feature, when you delete file, it is deleted in MAC unlike a Windows PC where delete always doesn't mean it is deleted. Often you can find it in th Widows directory, if you know where to look.

Trip, by the way if I am running a massive air traffic control system, I will use an Unix system over Windows any day.

Now if you want to connect to a Microsoft Exchange Server, you can down load a Widows XP program from Microsoft or Apple website (both are the same program) install it you are done. Same for connecting to Windows XP desk top.

Compared to PC's MAC updates are minimal in all respects; virus, os, etc.. I guess Unix is little hard to write virus for, especially considering most viruses are passed around as Visual Basic (.vbe) files. Not too many people understand the inner workings of Unix Code.

By the way, Pick up a copy of the latest Consumer Reports, CR has ratings and indpendend test results for PC's and MAC.

Probably, way more information than you were seeking.

I didn't really want to get into an argument with you over computers.  I'm here for an entirely different reason.  Unfortunately, Mac Militants are my #1 reason for hating Macs.  You will never admit that your Mac is not the perfect computer.  You make claims that your Mac can run circles around Big Blue.  HAL9000 is a simpleton compared to your supercomputing Macintosh.  Open your eyes and face the bullshit.

"No problem exchanging file or documents between Mac Office X and Microsoft Office Suite for PC's. Word, Excel, PowerPoint all works fine. have over 500 PC's at work and 200 Mac's we all exchange documents without any problems."

I have 2 comments. 1. Either you don't exchange files very often, or people call the helpdesk instead of you when your Mac screws up their spreadsheet.  Sharing files between Mac and PC USUALLY works fine, but when budget3q03.xls turns into ajd876fj4h32 then USUALLY isn't good enough. 2. That's a 2.5:1 PC:Mac ratio.  You mean to tell me that twice as many people need a pc than a Mac at your company?  Interesting.

"All of  my Engineering Staff uses Mac, while all marketing weenies use PC's, Wonder Why?"

Not really.  Your engineers are overpaid nerds who are willing to pay more for less just so they can act elitist, or should I say l33t?  Most of your engineers could do their jobs just fine on a PC with Autocad installed, but the constant badgering from Mac Militants would be cruel and unusual punishment for any amount of pay.  Your "marketing weenies" use pc's because they are the people making MONEY for your company.  They need serious business machines to do serious business.

"OS X 10.3 is major relaease not an update. Nothing to do with security or other, avilable later this year. Current OS Version is OS X 10.2.6. No bugs, been using it since last fall. Basically Apple is tweaking performance and adding more user friendly features and integrating on-line music store."

I'll just refer you back to my "face the bullshit" comment earlier.

"As far as database is concerned, Mac is shipped with Apple Works, and has a Data Base. If you are looking for simple and easy to use Database, it will do just fine."

*cough* Let's just move on. *snork*

"Appleworks also has Word Processing, Spreadsheet, and presentation programs (Power Point) all exchangable with Microsoft Office for PC. Have not found any problems with it either."

Only Mac Militants bother with Appleworks.  Microsoft Office is the dominant suite for a reason.  LOL, oh that's funny.  Good thing it's exchangeable with Office, since that's what everyone else is using.

"Calendar and address book: you can have as many as you want with Mac Mail and individually Password protect them with different passwords."

Great?  Ok.  More passwords to remember, that's not cool.  How many calendars do you need?  With Outlook you have 1 calendar.  You can categorize your appointments as business, personal, family, anything.  One thing you won't do is schedule 2 appointments for the same time because you forgot to check your OTHER? calendar.  And don't give me the multiple users line.  As someone who has "over 500 pc's", you should know all about profiles.  Especially since there's a 90% probability that your "200 Mac's" are using Outlook as well.

"Another great feature, when you delete file, it is deleted in MAC unlike a Windows PC where delete always doesn't mean it is deleted. Often you can find it in th Widows directory, if you know where to look."

Right, that's a feature.  Didn't mean to trash that?  Sorry fucker.  Restore?!  We don't need no stinking restore!  FYI, nothing stored on any magnetic disk is truly erased until that disk has been degaussed multiple times and burned, whether you can find it in the trashcan or not.

"Trip, by the way if I am running a massive air traffic control system, I will use an Unix system over Windows any day"

You're right about that one.  You would run that on a Solaris.  Sorry, that's not a fancy Mac.

"Now if you want to connect to a Microsoft Exchange Server, you can down load a Widows XP program from Microsoft or Apple website (both are the same program) install it you are done. Same for connecting to Windows XP desk top."

Or you can just turn on your pc.

"Compared to PC's MAC updates are minimal in all respects; virus, os, etc.. I guess Unix is little hard to write virus for, especially considering most viruses are passed around as Visual Basic (.vbe) files. Not too many people understand the inner workings of Unix Code."

I'll refer you back to my 1st post in this thread.  I was just kidding around, but everything I said was true.  Most viruses are written to attack PC's because 90% of the world's business computers are running Windows.  It is easier to code a virus for Windows than Unix, not because Unix is so difficult to understand, but because Visual Basic is such an easy programming language to use.

I don't really have anything against Macs or Mac users.  I just don't consider them to be any kind of real competition to a Windows-based pc.  A true Unix or Linux system absolutely, but not for the average user, and not OS X.  Like I said in the beginning, my biggest problem with Mac is the horde of Mac Militants blinded by their inferiority complex-driven hatred of all things Microsoft and their continued dependence on Microsoft products.  To admit even the most trivial flaw would be a defeat.  You'll probably respond to this and go ahead, but I'm done fighting.  I'd rather go take a look at Heidi's new pics.