First, let me just say Alex, I love your always thought-provoking posts!

Now, for cheating. The word cheat as a noun is a person who fools others, a con-artist. The word cheat as a verb, means to deceive or defraud.

So, as far as my end is concerned, there's no cheating going on here!

xoxo
Caylee

So I was asked today by EmmLoveXXX if I thought that the dates we see that are married or in a relationship are cheating.  I was also asked do I feel as though a provider in a relationship is cheating on her partner as well.  My answer was no.  In my opinion, cheating is an emotional thing not a physical thing.  A guy can't cheat with a provider unless it becomes more than just sex for them both and they start to spend quality time together and emotional entanglement happens.

Some my disagree, but I wanted to hear the opinions of others on this topic.  I have never discussed this with anyone other than a few friends, an ex and today EmmLoveXXX.  So Atlanta sound off!

Dispelling myths and fancifulness,

Alexandria Fox

-- Modified on 10/11/2011 4:15:11 PM

The real question would be - if caught, would the SO think it is cheating?  I'm guessing most would say YES. eom

Keepin it fresh .....

If a couple are in an exclusive relationship, with a mutually agreed upon expectation of sexual fidelity, then yes, the activities fantasized about here would be, IMHO, cheating. (This would include marriages with the usual vows.)

However...

If someone isn't getting what he or she needs at home, to the extent that either the relationship or the expectation of fidelity has to "give," then these fantasy activities may officially be "cheating" but may in actuality be the therapy keeps the relationship together. In other words, when someone isn't getting the sex they need at home they may well feel forced to end the relationship (break-up or divorce) if there isn't somewhere else to get it. So seeing a provider will meet their needs that aren't met at home, allowing them to (for everything else) stay with their partner/spouse/significant other. (I'll use "partner" to include all of these from here on.)

While many spouses and significant others would break-up with or divorce if they discovered their partner had resorted to an outside outlet to meet their sexual needs, others may feel relieved that they're no longer being pressured for sex, and really not care why.

As to whether a provider is cheating on his/her partner, well, I think the same thing is true. If your partner knows what you're doing and is okay with it then you're not cheating. But a provider who lies to their partner about what she/he is doing is, in my opinion, cheating.

So I somewhat agree with you, Alexandria, but not completely. I definitely agree that cheating is an emotional thing. If a relationship is "open" (and the partners follow whatever agreement they have about "outside interests" - like "tell me all about it, it turns me on!" or "I don't want to know, as long as you come home"), or one of the partners isn't sexual and is okay with the other "getting it outside," then all is well. But breaking the emotional bond of trust between partners by lying or hiding "outside" sexual encounters is probably "cheating."

I think the best way to judge is by imagining the other person's reaction if she/he found out. If your partner would consider what you're doing cheating then it probably is.


-- Modified on 10/11/2011 5:06:39 PM

Hahahahaha! Damn skippy!

Love this!

AF

Just talking? How? As in talking over the phone, in person, with feeling?... Elaborate; I'm interested to hear.

I'm all ears,

Alexandria Fox

Yeah, most would definitely say yes!

Babe, you know I love ya, but I am going to have to differ with you somewhat.  I agree with some of your points, but there are two things that strike me.  First, some of your arguments are those used to try to justify and/or rationalize certain behaviors.  If you don't inhale are you really smoking?  Is oral sex not really sex?  What is the definition of "is"?  You get my point.  But most importantly, second, much depends on the true nature of the relationship as it is understood between all parties.  In a traditional Christian marriage, a man and woman are bound to each other, body and soul, and only to each other.  You may try to argue that sex in your scenario is purely a physical act without any emotional attachment, but this ignores the idea of honor and trust and the breach thereof.  Even a relationship outside the marriage umbrella can involve trust and exclusivity.  Such depends on the understanding between the man and woman.  Now, there is validity to your position in the concept of an open relationship, where there are understandings as to what may or may not occur.  In that event the physical acts may not be as important as the emotional connections, and to that I concur with you.  Anyway, your points are well taken, but I must respectfully offer a slight dissent.  (I hope you still love me babe lol.)

you sound like omega

keep it fresh

Not Cheating in my book.  Would the SO or Wife disagree?  Of course !  So-do your best to not get caught-but in my view it is only cheating when there is affection, etc...outside of just great sex !  And your at home sex life doesn't have to be lousy for a fellow to enjoy some booty on the side!  It's what we do !  So go for it and feel no threat-unless you get caught-then don't give up any info-everything you say will be held against you forever !!  But that is the risk that is run !!

I spend a lot of time in an Asian country where prostitution is very common and divorce is virtually non-existent.  There the rule is "Don't embarrass the wife."  As long as it's done discretely, it's tolerated and, probably, subtly encouraged as a way to keep marriages intact.

I love your end.....lol.

I agree with your opener from the perspective that both partners are of sound mind and body to engage in conjugal acts within the marriage but what about the case where the wife is say very Ill, physically disabled, away or there are other issues?  Does it still make it cheating especially when  there is nothing more than physical pleasure involved.
There are broad and narrow definitions to everything—especially those moral in nature.  Augustine was once the Baccus of his time (yielding several illegitimate offspring and frequenting brothels) before he repented and began to damn all sexual acts in his treatise, City of God.  There are two definitions as I see it: 1. Whether physical or emotional cheating is cheating if you are stepping outside of the agreements as set forth at the start of any relationship.  2.  Cheating is an emotional act (this is the one women get real upset about) and not a physical one and as long as it is kept in the physical realm it is forgivable (women tend to take back those who commit the offense on this level).
I agree also with the premise of your 2nd paragraph as well.  The profession of “provider” does provide a bit of salve to a relationship that is otherwise right in all ways except sexually and may give the couple time to sort through an issue or some of what I mentioned above without the upheaval of divorce or breakup. So partner’s feel relieved  and other still feel betrayed but one thing about women in particular is if they can feel secure that the act is one sought purely for physical release more than likely she can get over it (yes, I know I am over generalizing but that’s another topic altogether).
Now concerning the provider: Whether she is honest with her mate or dishonest it is not cheating.  Why?  Her engagement with different dates is similar to the role an actress plays.  You are selected for a starring role and are given a script.  You show up on the set and act the part—a character very different from who you are in your day-to-day life.  The film is shot, the Oscar given and as an actress you are compensated for your talent.  Now when Angelina goes home to Brad after filming a movie that contains several steamy sex scenes filled with intimacy and kissing was she cheating?  No.  I say the same of the provider.  She is called upon for a fantasy that probably would not occur under normal circumstances therefore the act of cheating never happened—it is a fallacy.

A person’s reaction is nothing more that a set of beliefs previously held and being used to currently assess the situation they are presented with.  Emotions are often irrational and beliefs rooted in the mythology of the mind and that which is promulgated to the masses.

Thank you for the very deep and  well thought out presentation on this topic (I love a man that can think on his back…hee, hee)!  
Talk dirty to me,

Alexandria Fox

First let me say that of course I still love you too and we are all having a intelligent discussion here!  I like it when it’s given to me raw…and hard…and well…rough.  Now my argument might have seemed like a rationalization for behavior but when it comes to relationships I see cheating as a flagrant attempt to deceive and often hurt the other party through the establishing of an emotional, mental and physical connection with another party who may or may not be privy to the primary relationship.  In my opinion, emotion is the key (yeah, I know I’m a woman and most all of us think that way) to cheating, however; statistics show that men view cheating as the sexual act itself. Guys, be concerned if your girl is chatting it up with a guy ALOT.  The key to a woman’s panties is found in her head 1st.  If she’s fucking a guy…you’re too late.

Honor, trust and the breach of thereof.  Yes, if a couple has established the grounds on the broad scope of the definition then of course it is cheating—hell just about anything could be cheating for said couple.  Open relationships do have more fluid boundaries indeed.  I will say that I agree with the premises that you set forth—well done and well taken!

Until our lips meet…again,

Alexandria Fox

Love the responses of both of you guys!  Well done!

AF

Hmmm...a dissenter in the crowd?  LOL, brave soul.  Well I don't think it's cheating myself for reasons mentioned in an in-dept post reply above.  You have brought up an aspect not previously discussed and that is having a healthy sex life at home and still seeing escorts and that it's still not cheating...hmmm.  I'll have to look at that more closely.

Pondering,

Alexandria Fox

Thanks Caylee!  Glad to have one of the ladies join in!  

Well when a person is not upfront, honest and forthcoming about their sexual exploits (or at least gives warning of things to come) they fit every bit of your definition--even the escort who keeps her boyfriend in the dark fits your definition.  Cheating and what constitutes it is highly subjective and up for personal debate.  By the Oxford Dictionary standards well shit we are all cheaters!  That means in the past I was a BIG cheat!

AF

Ahh, the differing cultural views on providers.  Yes, in Asian culture the provider is seen as the reliever of the husbands appetites and is seen as someone who "relieves" the wife of her sexual duties to her husband.  As long as the husband does not disgrace his wife or family he dealings are ok.  Disgrace happens when cheating of the emotional sort begins to occur and is put on display for the world to see.  Nice to bring this angle up!

Thoughtfully yours,


Alexandria Fox

Over hundreds of years, having different sex partners has become a problem, that's due to jealousy and control.

I can't put myself in a wife's shoes, because I'm opened minded.  I truly do not believe that we were meant to have one sex partner, married or not.  I don't believe you'll go to hell having sex outside of wed lock and I do not believe same sex intercourse is wrong.  I do believe, however, over the years these rules were embedded into us.  I'm an art history major, I've studied history as far back as the 1500's, time has changed and rules and laws were laid down in order to gain control.

Sex is a transfer of energy.  I love what I do, therefor, I'm providing my clients with positive energy.  My services I would say are some what therapeutic.  I take stress away and add strength.  My clients leave me, wanting to return just so they can have a great day. I add confidence and relief to my clients. Most of my clients rarely have sex with there wives.  Without release of this energy, it builds up and it turns into negative energy, which starts arguments,  it leads to bad days, sometimes divorce.  I'm sorry but in away I believe i'm saving marriages.  Now, wives would definitely hate me, no doubt, but I have truly convinced myself that I am not doing anything wrong.  

So, what your wife doesn't know, won't hurt her. To her your cheating, to me your not. Trust me she has cheated on you at least once or have at least thought about it.  Just my opinion.  I know I'm about to catch hell for this post, so bring it on.

You have convinced me. I am not cheating!

Then its cheating!   Which is another word for lieing.  So what!?

Hey, my wife isnt a good cook.  Am i supposed to feel bad because i go out to a restaurant to eat?  And if i fall in love with and run away with the waitress, well thats life.  

Same thing about going out to see a provider since sex at home sucks, although in reality, its more likely to have a serious relationship with a waitress than a provider, so she might want to learn how to #%*+¥£€ cook!

Good topic, smart Alex.

By definition, all that happens here is cheating, whether on an emotional, legal or religious basis.  If you took marriage vows, you are cheating (religious).  If you made commitments of fidelity, you are cheating (emotional).  If you provide or partake, you are cheating (legal).

The more interesting side of all this is that what we are really cheating is a biological purpose by responding to a concurrent biological drive through an economic contract.

Speaking of energy transfer, I've been feeling really weak lately.  Time for some of that energy transfer... LOL

The amazing lady I shared time and pleasure with last night.

If I wanted philosophy, I would have stayed at Jesuit school.

Tell me, what is wrong with plain simple pagan based hedonist pleasures.  Guilt is the tool used by frustrated guys that could not compete with men so they became priest, clerics, and voodoo monks to create religion and justify their own power base to corrupt and pervert.  Cheating, well that's just a very logical argument to create guilt and transfer relationship power away from the people in the relationship economic exchange.

My god, if this is post coital small talk second cups must be a rarity.  I cannot imagine this topic helps a hooker promote f@cking her by the largest share of her target market - guys with enough disposable income to pfp  

If you want deep thoughts, try figuring out the answer 42.  It ain't 2/3rds the way to a 69, but it's pretty close to a damn good time.

Wow!  What a lively discussion.  I would like to say thank you all for your thoughts and comments.  Man their are some big brains on here--I love it and boy does it turn me on.  I really like emmlovexxx's comments about the sexual therapist--I agree with her point of view as that's what I feel like most of the time--a nude therapist.

Thanks for the many compliments received and thanks emmlovexxx for starting this line of thought in our phone call--love ya girl!

Love you all and once again satisfied,

Alexandria Fox

There's all kinds of ways to rationalize the behaviours of the Hobby but the simple fact is that it's still the World's Oldest Profession and not going away anytime soon.

The simple lack of emotional attachment makes it easier for us here to separate home life from hotel sex. The fact that many of us call/get called by our SOs every day after work is a testament to our relationship. We want to talk to our SOs, bond with them emotionally. I have doubts that AF, Empress, and other providers get called daily by married clients wanting to chat about the latest happenings at the office. If so, it's UTR and $4.99/min - lol.

For many of us, the ravages of Time on our or our SOs bodies mean that we can no longer fulfill those physical desires at home. For example, a SO's broken jaw or neck injury from a freak interstate auto accident means BBBJ and chandelier sex are no longer on the menu, but the SO is still the one in your heart. Or say that you have an SO who wants to experience Woman for Lipstick Lesbo sex, with or without you present, to feel the warm caress of long hair and soft skin along with the sweet smells of passion.  

The ladies here can certainly fulfill/ supplement those physical desires.

Cheating? POV I guess.