Atlanta

Agencies Verses Independents
Secret Agency Girl 4003 reads
posted
1 / 20

Concerning agencies verses independents and my .02.  There shouldn’t even be an agencies verses independents debate.  There is a time and place for agencies and a time and place for independents.  Most all providers either working with or without an agency are self-employed businesswomen.  There is a lot more work involved in both running an agency or working independently than many hobbyist realize, or most people for that matter.  

In response to they guy who wrote, "There is no reason to involve a middle man (i.e. agency) unless you have to.  Why pay for their overhead when you are the one doing the work?"  and others who think the same.  You totally don't get what it takes to be a self-employed provider either working with an agency or as an independent.  A provider working with a good agency isn't just handing over her money for nothing.  She is paying for services she'd otherwise have to do herself or employ someone else to do.  A good agency provides a safe clean environment to work.  There is a lot of time and money that goes into maintaining a location.  There is the rent, utilities, cable TV, furnishings, refreshments, sheets, towels, and laundry, cleaning supplies, phones, etc. and keeping the apartment in good order.  A good agency screens calls, verifies new clients, and schedules appointments.  If you think that's not work worth being paid for then why do companies (other than escort agencies) pay secretaries and receptionist to handle calls and administrative work?  A good agency handles all the advertising and promotions.  That's time and money there too.  Do you think if you had a business you could just open your door and clients would show up without any advertising?  A good agency does not impose a schedule on its providers.  Either the provider sets her own schedule or calls on and off when she feels like it.

I see nothing wrong with a provider choosing to do all the work herself.  If she wants to maintain her own web site, arrange for photos shoots, answer her own calls, keep up a location, pay all the overhead associated with running a business, etc. then that is her choice.  Some people like to do everything themselves and there is nothing wrong with that.  Some people employ accounts to do their taxes, maids to clean their house, mechanics to fix their cars, travel agents to arrange their vacations, and so on and so on, and some people do all those things themselves.  But don't tell me the only real work a provider does is give sessions.  The work doesn't begin and end with the session.

I have a lot of respect for providers who do all the work themselves.  There is more work involved with seeing clients than the session it self.  And personally I don't think providers who work totally independently should have to feel they have to give discounts because they've eliminated the middleman.  If anything I think they should charge more because they have more work to do.  Saying to an independent that she should give you a lower rate for her services just because she doesn't have a middle man is just plan insulting and stupid.  If she doesn't have a middleman than she has more work and expenses.

I also have a lot of respect for providers who choose to utilize the services of an agency.  If a self-employed provider chooses to pay someone to handle some of her work and take care of some of her expenses then that is her choice.  At the end of her day after paying agency fees the money in her pocket is all profit.  But before you go thinking the agency gets to pocket the money they collected in fees think again.  The agency now has to pay bills, advertising, buy supplies, etc. What the agency collects isn't all profit.

Not all agencies are bad and not all independents are good.  Enjoy your hobby.  Have fun.  Live with the illusion that providers either independent or with an agency aren't self-employed businesswomen.  And what was one of the main reasons you preferred independents?  Because it eliminated the middleman so you could get a better price?  So, ladies (especially independents) take note one of the main reasons these guys are giving for preferring independents is so they can get your services cheaper.  Rather or not you choose to discount your rates is your choice.  If you discount your rates be sure it benefits you and your business.

That's all for now.

JimmyPW 58 Reviews 3452 reads
posted
2 / 20

Sorry you have to use an alias.  You are so correct in everything except one.  I believe the main reason, not the money, but it is the restricted time element, calls just before the session is over, and extra fees needed to be paid to the agency if she is enjoying the session and conversation, the agency expects more compensation. Maybe you agency does not do that, but most all call before the hour or two hours are up. And many do charge the lady if time runs over. Yes a  call when arriving and one WHEN finished is good for safety, but when she is with a known client, then the call before the sessin time is up to let her know it is getting close to $$$$ time is  disrupting and should be the sole decision of the lovely provider giving the session.

Also, some agencys book back to back sessions so there is that press to get thru the session. Many ladies sometimes enjoy the extra time chatting and spooning with some of the clients. Time is the most important diference and reason many do not use agencys.

The difference in fees and saving money was mentioned, but was not the main or most reason. You took offence to one persons statements, and are justified in doing so as yes, there are expenses and time involved, no problem, but the control thing is the biggist problem.

Too bad you have to use an alias, you seem intelegent and well versed. Come out of the closet(grin). Thanks for enlighting the board on the reasons for agencys, just hope yours is not one of the phonecall and extra minute charge one.  yours to have, JPW

TheCunningLinquist 3692 reads
posted
3 / 20

I have used both, but my major argument has been that MANY, not all use tactics that whether encouraged or perpetrated by the provider are an outright abomination. Most of the guys don't have $$$ to throw around and not get what they've ordered. Are some guys unrealistic, of course? But most of us are nice, gentle, clean, intelligent... all the things that you expect. So you make a great argument, but remember this, if the provider under your flagship "messes up", the guy has no recourse but to vote with his wallet and not return. As one person put it, "repeat trade" is the key to your success. And while you cannot predict what someone will do or not do, keep in mind that providers are the "face" of your agency to the world. Burn me once, shame on me, burn me twice, shame on you.

-- Modified on 2/11/2005 5:52:16 AM

bluesman44 3 Reviews 2647 reads
posted
4 / 20

I think this was an excellent point.

"Saying to an independent that she should give you a lower rate for her services just because she doesn't have a middle man is just plan insulting and stupid.  If she doesn't have a middleman than she has more work and expenses."

This is very true.

However, I do agree with Jimmy regarding the extra time and companionship that independents can give makes them more appealing than an agency.

In conclusion there are providers both independent and with agencies that are hot hot hot and worth seeing.

NicholasVanOrton 2071 reads
posted
5 / 20

You have made some excellent points.

However, there is a reason why employers hire employees:  because they can make money off of you.

In my line of work, many professionals can work at client facilities (no cost) and at home (once they have a project).  The only out of pocket costs are my Dell Laptop, my cell phone ( I have this expense anyway, so it is not truly a cost) and customer acquistion costs.  Once I have a client, travel costs are covered by the client and so are my meals, etc.  Plus, I can write off the cost of my car, etc, business meals, etc.
(The tax code favors businesses, not employees.)

If you are a savvy business person and have experience in your field, you can work on your own.

My $0.02

One other thing...don't worry about offending me (you used an alias).....I love talking about business, and let's face it, reaonsable minds differ.   Plus, I like women who can challenge both my mind and stimulate my .....umm....... huge turn on!:-)  
Just don't talk about these things if my lollypop is in your mouth.


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SecretAgent_PT See Agency Profile 2494 reads
posted
6 / 20

Wow, Thank you whom ever you are. Actually I thank all of you for finally getting down to the meat and potatoes of it all. All of the responses here are well thought out and so much different than the usual negativity.
Secret Girl, yes do come outta the closet because sometimes I feel all alone in my quest for a better understanding.
There are Agencies and there are agencies as I have always said.
If you are looking on a warehouse site well then you should know what to expect. If you are looking at a site that has a known bad rep and still make that call ? Stop thinking with the little head and getting a bad session or a rushed one then taking it out on ALL the groovy little Agencies. If you are mad at yourself well then take it out on yourself.
I know that the negetive feelings about some agencies are absolutely correct. So why do you guys keep them in biz ? The names have been outed many, many times. If you do not frequent them then they will not be able to rush scam bait or switch you.
tyvm, P.T.

SecretAgent_PT See Agency Profile 2573 reads
posted
7 / 20

I think I know who this is.......................?
Virgin Terrorist I presume ?
tyvm, P.T.

JimmyPW 58 Reviews 2298 reads
posted
8 / 20

Hmmm, I have always believed in the opposite. Burn me once, shame on you.  Burn me twice, shame on me(should not have gone back). Or in my too agreeable demeaner sometimes,  shame on me first as I may have not done my best, 2nd, shame on you, 3rd shame on me(I tried the second time and you still did not fulfill, so why did I go back).  But then again, YMMV and it really is not shame, it is just either good/bad business or good/bad personal relationships.  As alway, friendships always deserve a second chance. Or maybe more?? JPW

NicholasVanOrton 2960 reads
posted
9 / 20

And one other point....an independent lady can barter to reduce her costs too :-)

Hopefully I didn't offend anyone by my posts.

It's just that in my line of work (which I will admit, is VERY different than this field), I get frustrated as hell when someone sells my service to a client and then marks it up 100%.  That is frustrating to me.

Again, take my comments with a grain of salt...I am a newbie, and am talking with my Friday "entrepreneurial" spirit.




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Secret Agency Girl 4310 reads
posted
10 / 20

I don't have a problem in general (just personal) with hobbyist looking for a good deal or a great value.  I do that too when I shop for anything.  I want to get the most for my money as well.  For example if I were going to buy a used car I might look for an individual selling their car rather than go to a car lot or if I were looking for a house to rent or buy I might look for a for rent/sale by owner.  It is up to the seller if they want to negotiate or not.  Some will have a fixed price and some will say the price is negotiable.

It is up to the individual provider as to rather or not her rates are negotiable.  I (when i was a provider) liked to work with set rates.  Negotiating rates always made me feel cheep.  The clients who were willing to pay my rate, whatever it was at the time, in my opinion were more upscale than the guys trying to talk me down and always were much better dates.

Now on the other hand I think hitting guys up for tips, upselling, charging for extras, etc. is pretty low class.  If I were a guy I don't think I'd like to see a provider who was into the hussle.  It would be a big turn off.

To the ladies who negotiate on their rates and/or work off tips, please do not take offense.  It is not personally how I'd like to do business but it is your business and you have to run it the best way you see fit.  I'm all about woman power rather we agree on every detail or not.

withoutguilt 3197 reads
posted
11 / 20

Very annoying indeed.

I also have first hand knowledge PT doesn't do that kind of crap.

Also, repeat client is always cheaper in the long run for the agency and the provider!

withoutguilt 6747 reads
posted
12 / 20
Secret Agency Girl 1832 reads
posted
13 / 20

Thanks for the complements.  I've read several of your post and you seem like one of the good guys.

In response to your reasons to liking independents because they can spend more time with you I'd have to agree with you if I were a hobbyist.  Who wouldn't want to get more for their money.  But this is a business.  Time is money and in this business you are getting paid for your time.  Consider it VERY generous when an independent provider spends extra time with you.  She could be returning calls, scheduling other appointments, taking other appointments, etc.  In other words the extra time she gives you could be costing her money.  On the other hand if she sees spending extra time with you as a way gain your repeat business then that could be a smart move on her part.  And then too she could just enjoy socializing with you on her own time.  It is possible.  I've done that with a few clients on occasion.

I know providers who are perfectly capable of being independent and running their own business but choose to use an agency for many of the same reasons you might prefer independents.  Some people aren't comfortable saying no and had rather be in a position where they have someone else to say no for them.  There are other reasons too.  Some providers don't like "selling" themselves on the phone and had rather someone else do that for them.  Then there are those who just like to keep their work and personal life as separate as possible and sometimes working with an agency makes that easier.

Anyway, thank goodness for choices.  Atlanta has many good independents and a few good agencies.  Thank goodness too we are in a time when providers can choose rather to be independent or work with an agency.  

NicholasVanOrton 1767 reads
posted
14 / 20

"I think I know who this is.......................?
Virgin Terrorist I presume ?
tyvm, P.T."

Nope....just an analytical dude who loves analyzing business models and has a gift for doing it.

I have done equity research, created valuation models, performed due diligence, and helped acquire assets/companies...so I get a kick out of this.  

Regards,

Nick



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NicholasVanOrton 4175 reads
posted
15 / 20

" I have used both, but my major argument has been that MANY, not all use tactics that whether encouraged or perpetrated by the provider are an outright abomination. Most of the guys don't have $$$ to throw around and not get what they've ordered. Are some guys unrealistic, of course? But most of us are nice, gentle, clean, intelligent... all the things that you expect. So you make a great argument, but remember this, if the provider under your flagship "messes up", the guy has no recourse but to vote with his wallet and not return. As one person put it, "repeat trade" is the key to your success. And while you cannot predict what someone will do or not do, keep in mind that providers are the "face" of your agency to the world. Burn me once, shame on me, burn me twice, shame on you."

Any agancy that is that short-sighted (i.e. they nickel and dime you) isn't in it for the long haul/just doesn't understand business.  People talk when they feel like they didn't get what they paid for.

I can't speak for all of the guys on here, but if someone gives me 110%, I give them 120% in return.


It's just better business to make a client happy and have that person in the mix for the long haul.

SecretAgent_PT See Agency Profile 4627 reads
posted
16 / 20

I did not mean you hon !!!!!
Its because of the moderation  that posts come out at different times. I thought the author of this post was WebTerrorist.
It is not as I have spoken to her and she sez nope not her.
I am sorry that you thought it was you, the modertaion is neccessary but, completely a pain in the arse at the same time.
tyvm, P.T.

NicholasVanOrton 12037 reads
posted
17 / 20

"I don't have a problem in general (just personal) with hobbyist looking for a good deal or a great value"

I don't think that is what I am saying at all.

In general, I am generous when someone is generous with me.

I am a newbie, but I can already tell some of the tactics (used cars salesmsan tactics, if you will) that are used:

- bait and switch
- pictures that aren't updated
- nickeling and diming guys
- cutting sessions short

I can't speak for others, but I am not looking for value...I am looking for PLEASURE....when I finally take the plunge, I will gladly tip well/extend the session if we click and she is making me feel like $1 M bucks.





-- Modified on 2/11/2005 3:53:37 PM

NicholasVanOrton 3147 reads
posted
18 / 20

"Consider it VERY generous when an independent provider spends extra time with you"

No, I consider that good business/common sense.  Do you think that a guy who has a wonderful experience isn't going to pass the word around to his buddies?  Word of mouth advertisng costs the provider nothing and is the best advertising of all.

Business people who focus on short-term gains (i.e. not spending that extra five minutes with a client) will lose over the long term.

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Yanga 1 Reviews 3381 reads
posted
19 / 20

Great service will get great business no matter whether it comes from an independent or an agency. On average the independents are much more reliable. But I'd love a good dependable agency.

withoutguilt 3969 reads
posted
20 / 20

Honesty+attitude+service finally determines who and what is good.

Humans=unpredictability

so everything about human beigns are just an opinion and debatable. Many points and counterpoints make the discussion going round and round.

Information+reputation+groundwork + luck probably plays a large part

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