Dictionaries define this as "dispute or wrangling over the price of something"...
My verification account just got revoked due to a complaint by a local provider that I was haggling, let's call her "bitch" to protect the guilty... I never suggested that she lower her rate, or offered an amount I was willing to pay other than her listed rate. I told her that I needed to cancel an appt (well in advance) because it was no longer in my budget but that if she was feeling negotiable maybe we could still work something out and she said that she does not negotiate but that if I wanted to indulge myself anyway to let her know. To which I responded that my bank account would not allow such indulgence but if she wanted to indulge herself in me, to let me know. To which she went berserk and said she'd be reporting me. So is a perception of price dispute the same thing as an actual price dispute? Is suggesting that someone might negotiate were they reasonable the same thing as negotiating? I never actually engaged in "haggling" as it is defined. "Bitch" apparently has a lot of pull, because I was given no warning about this behavior and told that my account was permanently revoked, despite the fact that I don't feel I did anything actually wrong"Haggling" is a much-abused term in this hobby. Some ladies won't allow you to mention price, even in the face of conflicting rates. Others will let you negotiate, but you never know.
Sometimes their sense of self-worth is wrapped up in a number. Most are cutting off time-wasters at the head. Still others think it ruins the illusion, which never exists for me in the first place.
You could have avoided it. It sounds like you mentioned the possibility of a lower rate twice. She heard you the first time.
Not suggesting it's deserving of having an account revoked but the wise move would have been to not mention the possibility of negotiation at all, which in a way is a suggestion to lower the rate BTW.
...do you mean "it was no longer in my budget?" You apparently had the money when you made the appointment but then something happened - you gambled it away or you were robbed at gunpoint? You're a time waster. You made the appointment knowing full well how much it cost but then you tried to get her to reduce her price, figuring she wouldn't want to lose the entire amount for the time she reserved for you.
This really is a simple arrangement. You choose a lady based upon her photos, reviews, rates; you request an appointment, if she accepts then you arrive on time well groomed with an envelope which is filled based upon her posted rate for the appointment you requested. Then have fun.
If you want my brutally honest opinion, and even if you don't, what you described you did was haggling and although it seems the lengths that she went to seem extreme, I don't blame her. I suspect that you've spun your description in your favor, most people do, and I also suspect that you've left out key bits of your story based upon the resultant condition of her reporting you to the verification site.
I can, to some extent, understand your need to cancel based upon your financial situation, and kudos to you for doing so well in advance of the day of your appointment, in my opinion that's where the story should have ended.
This is a wonderful hobby, but it's not an inexpensive one. If your finances are that fragile that you could go from one day being able to afford her stated rates to the next day not being able to, then perhaps this isn't the hobby for you.
Sorry, but it sounds like haggling to me. You raised the issue of price, not her. Too late now, but I would have suggested, "Stuff happened and my budget changed so I have to cancel. If things improve, I'll contact you again. Sorry." and be prepared to walk away. Let her open the door to an accommodation.
What you did could easily be or become your standard (fake) tactic: make a date, say you have to cancel for $ reasons, ask to "work something out."
Revocation of your verification membership is quite harsh but maybe you can haggle with the agency about it. I hope you get reinstated and that you'll accept a looser definition of haggling.
I never suggested that she lower her rate, or offered an amount I was willing to pay other than her listed rate. I told her that I needed to cancel an appt (well in advance) because it was no longer in my budget but that if she was feeling negotiable maybe we could still work something out and she said that she does not negotiate but that if I wanted to indulge myself anyway to let her know. To which I responded that my bank account would not allow such indulgence but if she wanted to indulge herself in me, to let me know. To which she went berserk and said she'd be reporting me.
So is a perception of price dispute the same thing as an actual price dispute? Is suggesting that someone might negotiate were they reasonable the same thing as negotiating? I never actually engaged in "haggling" as it is defined. "Bitch" apparently has a lot of pull, because I was given no warning about this behavior and told that my account was permanently revoked, despite the fact that I don't feel I did anything actually wrong.
multi-hour date, maybe including dinner out or whatever. I have always had a concern with providers that want the same hourly rate for social time as for bedroom time. Perhaps I was spoiled by a now-retired UCLA co-ed working her way through school that had a $400/hr rate for bedroom time but would piggyback up to three hours of social time for dinner at $75/hr if I booked two hours of bedroom time. It certainly stretched my hobby budget and allowed me to see her more often and still feel like we had social time to improve our connection. From my own experience, a few hours of social time over dinner does much more to build a connection with a provider than a hour of banging away in the bedroom. I think many providers overlook the opportunity to build long-term relationships by not factoring in a price incentive for additional time beyond one or two hour sessions.
Back to your point. Since you gave a legit reason why you could not keep the appointment (we have all had unexpected expenses pop up that we had to prioritize OVER our playtime), but still gave her the opportunity to MAKE YOU AN OFFER YOU COULDN'T REFUSE, I think there was no reason why she should have reacted the way she did unless business is bad and she is desperate for money, which sometimes happens even to girls that are perceived "first tier" girls.
I think I have a good idea of who you're talking about because she often slams people on the boards who talk about rates and negotiating. I'm sure if anyone wants to know, they could PM you for a name, but I would be cautious about posting it here.
Great idea! One rate for dinner, another rate for play. How would you propose that to a provider without it being misconstrued as haggling?
look for providers with rate structures that drop off dramatically when you get up around four hours. Same idea. Saw one recently that was 400/1hr, 700/2hrs, 900/3hrs and 1000/4hrs. She obviously understands the value in the social time. No one is going to keep screwing for 4 hours, so the declining rate accounts for the "down" time (no pun intended), which allows the provider in my example to milk 300 more out of a two hour session, and makes it a justifiable expenditure for the "company" of a beautiful woman, beyond the active playtime, for the hobbyist. There are some providers out there that get it, you just have to look for them. I have maintained for years from my own experiences that long-term relationships with providers are cultivated more during social time than sex time, similar to civvie relationships. Its the blending of objectivity (sex) and subjectivity (social) that gets the hobbyist to see the provider as a real person rather than just a warm place to park their dick.
This is not, nor has it been my MO, I had 10+ vouchers on that site all who were paid in full.
I was not trying to GET her to lower her price, I was offering her the opportunity to if she was going to otherwise have no work that night.
I did not squander the funds, I made the date over a month ago and lost a source of supplementary income in the interim.
And yes, not only was this a multihour date, it was with arguably the highest priced provider in the local area. I had intended it to be a treat and knew what I got involved in. I'll also add that despite what she found objectionable, I was polite, courteous and complimentary in all correspondence.
but from your side of what happened, I think your biggest mistake was reiterating your willingness to see her at a lower rate. Just because the offer to negotiate was only "implied" and not overt haggling. You probably should have stopped at asking once.
Also, if she is the highest priced provider in the area, she would be the woman LEAST likely to negotiate her rates and the one MOST likely to go BSC on you over it, but I suppose you already found that out the hard way.
she is BSC MOST of the time.
...provider? The OP didn't mention the city, state or even the country where the provider is located. He refers to himself as a "punter" so she could be anywhere in the world. Get a hold of yourself, CDL, that BSC provider you're "thinking of" seems to be preoccupying your thoughts.
Just call her BITCH, you don't think it was pretty easy to narrow it down? You're right, I could be wrong, but I don't think so.
This is why I rarely see girls over $400/hr. Have always been disappointed when I did. Some seem to think their pussy is lined with gold and should get a high price. Granted, many higher-priced girls are very hot-looking, but tend to neutralize that quality with their phoniness and bad attitude.
Sometimes my tongue dislodges a piece into my mouth and that shit goes for big coin on the open market, pending Trump's daily tweet of course
Me THINKING I have one doesn't make it happen any more than for a provider to think her pussy is lined in gold.
-- Modified on 12/27/2016 1:46:54 PM
-- Modified on 12/27/2016 1:46:54 PM
"I was not trying to GET her to lower her price, I was offering her the opportunity to"
Now if that's not some Orwellian doublespeak I don't know what is. Have you considered becoming a politician?
Now if that's not some Orwellian doublespeak I don't know what is. Have you considered becoming a politician?
..your logic is tortuous. You haggled. End of story.
A lot of guys every year by the 1000s are hobbying outside of the US because of drama. Sounds like the provider is full of BS.
And I rule against you. You haggled, bargained, negotiated, etc whatever term makes you sleep at night.
There is a downside for some, to haggling, and you got hit with the mallet.
My advice to you is two fold:
1) Get better at it or
2) Don't do it
Sorry, but option (3), bitching about it after you got caught, is not an option from my perspective. If you are going to go outside the public norm of anything in life, be prepared for the consequences.
Bitching about it makes you seem no better than the girl you are calling a bitch. In fact it makes you seem a tad worse.
Not every girl takes my offer on every occasion but you never see me come here and cry about it. It is what it is.
Own it. Move on. And STFU about it.
But the last line sums this up perfectly:
Own it. Move on. And STFU about it.
Oh, and just for you JD, fuck marriage, lol.
Your ex-wife told me. 
I'm tired of telling you that I almost felt sorry for you. But hearing your ex's POV has been a revelation.
She asked me to tell you that she hopes you're finally moving on.
That torch has got to be heavy.
Own it. Move on. And STFU about it.
Oh, and just for you JD, fuck marriage, lol.
There's many levels of complaining here, and you've only touched on a couple of them. His first problem is not going by common hooker parlance, which deems basically any form of negotiation initiated by the john "haggling" (which is an abuse of English, but whatever). Certainly an obvious ploy to get her to lower her price qualifies. Then there's being a bad negotiator on top of it, which you're right in saying gives him all the less reason to complain.
However, there's another issue. He was tattled on, which for his level of "haggling" is ridiculous. You, being a master negotiator or whatever, may feel he deserves what comes to him. But he has every right to complain on that account.
I think too many people get wrapped up trying to prove that they're right, rather than taking the shortest path to what they really want.
If staying in the good graces of this agency is what you want, take a conciliatory attitude, just explain that if you crossed a line it was unintentional.
there is a saying:
Do you want to be right or do you want to be happy
Do you want to be right or do you want to be loved
Do you want to be right or do you want to be ...
Makes you seem like a mere timewaster. Like, 'Oh, a month ago I REALLY wanted to see you. But, now that I didn't get that new lawnmower for Christmas, I'm not feeling it so much.'
It's not her problem you screwed up your budget (or that it got screwed up by something else... whatever)...
If you'd been a regular, and you explained to her nicely that you lost a stream of income... THEN she might have been willing to work with you. However, you were a new client. And the way you worded it (from what you said here, anyway) made it seem like you DEMANDED (or at least expected, or felt entitled to) some sort of kickback.
After she refused (it sounds like she refused politely) you should have just STFU. When you kept pressing, that's just plain aggressive and manipulative. Personally, I would have assumed that it was your intention all along.
I would have DNS'ed you, too. However, I would NOT have reported you (that's drama llama-ish and total overkill). Since it was in advance, I'd have said 'No harm, no foul.' However, I'd be annoyed enough that you'd be NEVER book a date with me in the future. I wouldn't even reply to your emails.
An aside: I, too, have the feeling I know who you mean. The person in question has been unusually unpleasant when asked for a reference. Like, 'Oh, underling, you DARE ask me for a reference on a MONDAY?? I only reply to reference requests EVERY OTHER FRIDAY.' Never experienced anything like that (although there are plenty of women who just won't reply). Anyway, my point is: there are a lot of nice providers out there for literally half the price. Pick one of them, instead
You sure about that? Maybe you and the Landlord can work out a Special Deal.
You sure about that? Maybe you and the Landlord can work out a Special Deal.
I reside in an apartment, and my landlord is an out-of-state corporation...Damnit!
You sure about that? Maybe you and the Landlord can work out a Special Deal.
I reside in an apartment, and my landlord is an out-of-state corporation...Damnit!
I gave you a Like on that. If I ever have a tenant leave my building I'll let you know.
You sure about that? Maybe you and the Landlord can work out a Special Deal.
I reside in an apartment, and my landlord is an out-of-state corporation...Damnit!
I gave you a Like on that. If I ever have a tenant leave my building I'll let you know.
You sure about that? Maybe you and the Landlord can work out a Special Deal.
I reside in an apartment, and my landlord is an out-of-state corporation...Damnit!
I gave you a Like on that. If I ever have a tenant leave my building I'll let you know.
Sex for Rent? Now I'm very interested in meeting you.
Everyone has a deal going. You're just not approaching it correctly.
Ask my friend JackDunphy to see if his classes (which begin on January 10th) on Haggling 101 still has an opening.
Sorry...you'll need to pay in advance. No negotiation on that LOL
Ask my friend JackDunphy to see if his classes (which begin on January 10th) on Haggling 101 still has an opening.
Sorry...you'll need to pay in advance. No negotiation on that LOL
If you offered to substitute a BJ for some of the money he would at least hear your proposition without going berserk. He may ultimately turn you down, but that's his choice. At least you gave him an option like the OP did to 'bitch." I think in retrospect he shouldn't have not repeated his proposition, but I think her reaction was way out of line. All she had to say was "no thank you." Instead, She filed a formal complaint with P411 and got his account closed. How is that NOT a gross overreaction?
As far as my landlord not "haggling," as I stated to someone else, my landlord is a corporation and they serve eviction notices within 5 days, past my rent's due date.
A classy professional and a self-absorbed bitch. Unfortunately, many young providers don't think they have anything to learn from someone with your kind of experience, and so they will continue to hurt their own business by being retaliatory rather than ignoring and letting go as you suggest.
I would have just ignored his rendezvous requests, and not replied. With that said, I know what it's like to fall on hard times and want something I can't have...so, without people assuming I'm a "soft touch" and trying to take advantage of what I'm about to say...I have negotiated when I felt, in my heart, it was the right thing to do.
As far as my landlord not "haggling," as I stated to someone else, my landlord is a corporation and they serve eviction notices within 5 days, past my rent's due date.
You did do something Wrong;
Sounds like you were trying to see her at a lower rate than she was charging.
"Indulge Herself In Me"? You must really think you're God's Gift To Women. The only thing she wants to Indulge in is your Money. If you can't afford a certain provider then call another that's within your price range. Sounds like you wanted to rent a Corvette ZR1 for the price of a Hyundai Elantra.
I'm in no way God's gift to Women, but my penis is.
Sounds like you were trying to see her at a lower rate than she was charging.
"Indulge Herself In Me"? You must really think you're God's Gift To Women. The only thing she wants to Indulge in is your Money. If you can't afford a certain provider then call another that's within your price range. Sounds like you wanted to rent a Corvette ZR1 for the price of a Hyundai Elantra.
If I'm whining here at all... which I don't think that I am... its certainly NOT because she didn't find my suggestion appealing... Its not because "I didn't get my way" or "I failed at negotiating"... That would indeed be pathetic...
The point here was that my credential were revoked based on her complaint that I haggled, which a) I still don't agree that I did, and b) was petulant, retaliatory and cunty of her.
She's not a Bitch for refusing me, she's a Bitch for doing far more harm to me than reading my messages did to her.
Or you can just stop digging.
The point here was that my credential were revoked based on her complaint that I haggled, which a) I still don't agree that I did, and b) was petulant, retaliatory and cunty of her.
She's not a Bitch for refusing me, she's a Bitch for doing far more harm to me than reading my messages did to her.
Yes, her actions were likely done out of spite. Yes, it was overkill. After all, you did not steal from her... you are not proven to be dangerous.
However, she may have wanted to warn other providers about a client who was potentially a time waster, and disrespectful (can’t take a no, feels that he’s entitled to a kickback) to boot.
If I knew about this incident (even if it occurred the way you described it) wouldn’t even think about accepting an appointment with you.
IMO, you should have avoided overtly asking for a break, even once. But a provider should definitely only have to say ‘No’ one time. (Having to reiterate a firm 'NO' is a deal-breaker for me).
This would have been better: ‘Oh, I lost my side job. I’d been so looking forward to seeing you, but I suppose it will have to wait for a more advantageous time, financially. I am so sorry to have to postpone this opportunity.’
MAYBE she would have offered. And if she didn’t (which is the most likely outcome), you should have moved on.
She wanted to warn people? By having my account deleted? I had plenty of OKs... women who had been paid and left alive and happy. I've had plenty of people decide I'm DNS, that's their business. This didn't do any public service... this wasn't altruism... this was utter bullshit behavior for selfish spiteful reasons.
Somehow I am having a problem believing that your account was suspended because of a hooker whining that you haggle. I haggle with everything in life (as most here do...even those mangina's who claim they would never negotiate)...that's just the way life is played.
So if the hooker had her rent/s covered...she wasn't interested in seeing you for a discount. So what. How or why that should have gotten your account suspended is more of an issue with you and your account manager. Have YOU contacted them about why they have suspended YOUR account? If it's P411...I really find that to be an issue. As I said earlier...haggling/negotiation is quite common in HookerLand. Especially from the "higher" end hookers.
But as my friend Jack has pointed out...if a hooker has her money made for the month..she may not want to haggle. Try her back around the 28th...rents are just round the corner. Maybe her car payment is also due then.
You can't control what someone else does in life. But you can control what you do. Now quit whining about this shit and take some action with your account manager. If you need some further instruction on how to resolve this...please check with Jack. Classes begin January 10th at a convenient location.
By having your credentials revoked. I think it also cast P411 in a negative light for giving a provider so much power without asking for your side if the story. If I was ever going to consider getting registered with P411, I certainly wouldn't consider it after hearing this.
I just posted on this topic, as did Stephanie. It's extremely rare for Gina to side with a provider over a client, even over more momentous disputes (shorting money, trying to force BBFS). In fact, I've never heard of her doing so. Yet, I've heard plenty of stories of Gina siding with the CLIENT over the PROVIDER (since the clients are the ones who pay for membership).
My point was that the provider might have thought that he really wasn't 'OK.' She might not have wanted other providers to see him based upon his behavior to her. (I'm not saying that she was right).
Remember, we only have *his* version of events.
And how did she accomplish that? I still have good references. I still have providers willing to see me. I just don't have that account. Even if my version of events is wildly false... she didn't succeed in warning anyone or preventing me from seeing other local providers in any way.
vindictive provider may have made stuff up since the penalty was so severe? That is certainly feasible. All the more reason she is a real bitch.
Girls have reported MORE severe offenses, and there were no repercussions to the client.
Gina would absolutely require proof before taking such drastic action against a paying client. Also, I'm sure she'd want to hear from both sides before making a decision.
From what I've heard, she is VERY reluctant to punish a client... clients the ones who furnish her income. Provider accounts are free (we do pay for visiting and featured ads, but the fees are minimal).
Think about it. If a bunch a lot of guys got kicked off because providers complained about non-life-threatening offenses... I'm sure it would hurt p411. Gina wouldn't risk that. Or at least, she hasn't risked it for the past several years.
My point was that the provider might have thought that he really wasn't 'OK.' She might not have wanted other providers to see him based upon his behavior to her. (I'm not saying that she was right).
Remember, we only have *his* version of events.
I also agree with HD...I read your post and picked up that you implicitly communicated that she lower her price twice, in two separate exchanges. Once when you first brought it up and a second time in your response, basically suggesting you're worth giving up some $$$ for the opportunity to spend time with you. LOL. All she probably heard was - I dont have the money to pay you, but you can see me if you're willing to lower your price, and come to think of it, you should give up some cash to spend time with me, because I'm that awesome. Sure, it was passive, you threw it out, but the second response crossed over to persistence and had a sprinkle of arrogance to it. Seems harsh though to get dumped by a verification service if it happened exactly as you say. I've been with P411 for 8 years and never had any issues.
That's the bare minimum.
As I said, I'd be VERY glad for any action taken by any provider that would help me avoid you (although I personally would not have reported you based upon *your* version of events).
Most clients just make appointments without any incident... they don't do anything that would make 'plenty' of people decide they're DNS.
As MatureGFE said... it's no small feat to get kicked off of p411. Gina almost ALWAYS sides with clients. After all, you guys are the ones who pay to be on the site. It's extremely rare that she'll side with a client over a provider... and I've actually never even heard of a guy w/10 OK's (or any guy at all) getting kicked off because of a dispute with a provider.
On the other hand, I've heard of a lot of women who've reported guys for worse things (shorting donation, trying to force BBFS) and the guys have stayed
Here goes, Tobi is not the only one here who is a bit "cunty"
Even though we have only heard "his" side of the story, his credibility is so weak that I already believe her side of the story sight unseen. Some hookers carry more weight with P 411 than others, but I don't think any woman has the power to get any guy who is not a complete douche bag kicked off of P 411
The OP doesn't have much of a board presence here under this alias, but a simple message search of what he has had to say previously should be enough for most to belief just about any woman over him.
Just for the record, does anyone believe the OP is telling the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth? I know I most certainly do not.
And I don't believe in hell.
People often leave out critical details and spin their story in their favor. I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir.
So you go back to the verification site and tell your story. While I suspect it would be a complete waste you could also send a very polite apology letting her know when you have secured the funding you would love to see her at her full price and explain you think her reaction was to your poor communications and ask if she would retract the complaint.
That's how delusional people like you think. BTW if it P411 that you got kicked off of, it takes A LOT for Gina to kick a guy off. And just because a lady complains to Gina does NOT mean Gina listens to the lady and complies. Gina makes up her own mind. The only bitch here is the whiny one that started this thread.
But I don't expect you to understand because you are delusional
Y U MAD BRO? YOU SEEM MAD. Y U MAD?
You know how I went and looked up "haggling" in the dictionary? I think maybe you need to look up "delusional".
And your whining. Gina OFTEN sides with the guys on her site so if she kicked you off, hey it's on you bro! Unrealistic opinions , YEP that's you. Deceiving yourself into believing you did nothing wrong, you didn't haggle, you aren't whining, the gal who complained is the guilty party.... You fit the bill and then some.
Gina made the decision why don't you start calling her names? That would be rich!~
-- Modified on 12/27/2016 1:43:07 PM
And its also true:
"Bitch" did not revoke your membership. Gina revoked your membership.
And I bet if you showed Gina and the folks at P411 this thread, they'd be really REALLY happy they did.
I'm just sayin'
and if she had any doubts about her decision earlier, I am sure the OP has removed ANY lingering doubts she might have had.
I have often questioned the ladies for sticking up for "one of their own" who was obviously in the wrong. I feel obligated to do the same thing to the guys on this thread, How the fuck could anyone support this douche bag? Even hearing "only" his side of the story, I am convinced the lady was well within her rights to complain to Gina. The OP only has a history going back a few months, but just read the few posts that he has made under this alias and it's pretty plain he has an issue with women.
No one accuses me on my main account of having problems with women... that's the point of an alias right? To say things that you know aren't going to be well received. People have all kinds of fucked up biases... they just don't voice them.
And as much as I may seem to have an issue with women to you, I've certainly encountered a lot of providers who seem to have an issue with men that they are indulging by having no real respect for the clients or their time & money. I would suggest that the provider in this story who suggested that I indulge myself even though I plainly said I couldn't afford it, has a sincere lack of respect for other people's earning potential.
Lucky for me, I didn't start this thread to get support... so I'm not disappointed by any lack thereof. Getting booted off a verification site doesn't affect my actual mongering at all... I have references, and I can prove who I am to any provider who asks.
And in this case... there are a lot of women who won't give this bitch the time of day anyway.
-- Modified on 12/27/2016 9:14:04 PM
You asked a simple question, is what you described haggling? Which even based upon "your spin", the overwhelming answer from posters on here is "yes".
This life isn't for everyone, perhaps you're one of them. And or, you could save up some money, your fragile finances are not her concern.
As I said a few times in this thread, I suspect your story's details are either not complete, or twisted in an attempt to shed favorable light on yourself
Where did the idea come from that this involves p411? Why would P411 care about haggling? That's really outside its area of concern.
I have often questioned the ladies for sticking up for "one of their own" who was obviously in the wrong. I feel obligated to do the same thing to the guys on this thread, How the fuck could anyone support this douche bag? Even hearing "only" his side of the story, I am convinced the lady was well within her rights to complain to Gina. The OP only has a history going back a few months, but just read the few posts that he has made under this alias and it's pretty plain he has an issue with women.
I can only imagine the language this guy used to express his unhappiness about getting the boot. Now he's babbling more negatives degrading comments about this woman. He reminds me of the type that won't let this go with her as he clearly hasn't done so yet. This is becoming creepy on his part.
Steph
Where else do you get vouched for? Date-Check? Or maybe it was RS2K?
Those be the only three options that I'm aware of.
Also - this is totally in their purview. No one running a verification site would want to be doing business with a person who acts this way. He seems dangerous and anyone running a verification site would not want to be seen as endorsing this kind of toxicity.
Now tbh getting banned for haggling alone seems extreme, but I stand by my statement earlier:
Anyone running a verification site who recently banned a gent and then happened to see this thread would feel 1000% certain they made the right choice.
Also let's be real, whoever got banned in the past 72 hrs or whatever is going to have all their info Blacklisted from here to kingdom come (simply because of the volatility of this thread and the fact that many eyes are watching), so while CP feels convinced his hobby rep will not be tarnished, he's probabaly got another thing coming.
It would not surprise me that the OP has left enough bread crumbs for the hooker community to figure out who he is. and it is my sincere hope they do and he ends up on every one of your DNS lists.
I have long maintained that the behavior of bad hookers effect their sister providers more than anyone else and the same thing applies to creepy, demanding and haggling johns. The more of them who get the boot, the less suspicious you ladies will be of the rest of us once the bad apples are gone. Obviously I know this is never going to happen, but it doesn't mean we shouldn't try.
Lastly, we only have the OP's word that he was kicked off "only" for haggling. I can't speak for anyone else, but I certainly don't take anything the OP says at face value. He has a limited board presence under this alias, but what history he does have indicates a rather low opinion of women in general and hookers in particular. So it would not surprise me in the least if we were to find out someday that his transgressions we much more egregious than he has admitted to.
It would be really nice if the "bitch" were to recognize herself and came on here to share her side of the story. I am willing to bet her side of the story is going to read MUCH differently than his.
I have often questioned the ladies for sticking up for "one of their own" who was obviously in the wrong. I feel obligated to do the same thing to the guys on this thread, How the fuck could anyone support this douche bag? Even hearing "only" his side of the story, I am convinced the lady was well within her rights to complain to Gina. The OP only has a history going back a few months, but just read the few posts that he has made under this alias and it's pretty plain he has an issue with women.
Your "point" has absolutely NOTHING to do with what the rest of us are talking about.
Are you still all butt hurt that Gina kicked you off the site as well? I am sure I speak for many when I say good riddance to both of you P 411 is much better with neither of you there.
I was wondering if it was a P411 issue. Gina doesn't just pull a membership because of a provider's side of the story. We all know P411 deals with a lot of providers, and I'm sure a lot of ones who are doing some shady shit.
Gina also, I believe, requires all messages in the thread be forwarded to her, and not just snippets.
What we have here with the OP is snippets of the story. I'd like to see the entire conversation.
"Bitch" did not revoke your membership. Gina revoked your membership.
And I bet if you showed Gina and the folks at P411 this thread, they'd be really REALLY happy they did.
I'm just sayin'
I've had issues with a P411 gentleman before and basically unless they assault you and you provide physical evidence like photos, Gina won't do anything. There was a guy in my area that finally had so many complaints against him that his account was finally revoked. I'm assuming the OP either had a slow, consistent build up of complaints against him or he flat out did something horrible like threatening the provider.
Suck it up. Grow a pair and as Jack said STFU.
And after the notice that you needed to cancel that's when you should have followed the suggestion.
That's my take and I'd say what you did was haggling as you didn't just drop it after saying you didn't have the funds but maybe something could be worked out and she said "No". (So, also, here No means No
My verification account just got revoked due to a complaint by a local provider that I was haggling, let's call her "bitch" to protect the guilty...
I never suggested that she lower her rate, or offered an amount I was willing to pay other than her listed rate. I told her that I needed to cancel an appt (well in advance) because it was no longer in my budget but that if she was feeling negotiable maybe we could still work something out and she said that she does not negotiate but that if I wanted to indulge myself anyway to let her know. To which I responded that my bank account would not allow such indulgence but if she wanted to indulge herself in me, to let me know. To which she went berserk and said she'd be reporting me.
So is a perception of price dispute the same thing as an actual price dispute? Is suggesting that someone might negotiate were they reasonable the same thing as negotiating? I never actually engaged in "haggling" as it is defined. "Bitch" apparently has a lot of pull, because I was given no warning about this behavior and told that my account was permanently revoked, despite the fact that I don't feel I did anything actually wrong.
Oh, you didn't hear me. Let me repeat what I said.
You are cordially invited the opportunity to give me a lower price.
Sir, you are full of shit! You used pc manipulating language twice.
I guess you don't get that no means no.
Serves you right
I'll go a step further. You were very petty at ur haggling. Sorry.
Just My 0.02
CynicalPunter is our revered Founder.
I wish you had not attempted to negotiate, twice, and had stopped communicating and moved on to another provider.
If the provider, who retaliated by getting you kicked off the verification board, had thought for a minute how she'd feel if the situation were reversed, she may have hopefully handled the situation differently. But, we will never know, because unfortunately it's too late.
As a famous quote, which IMHO pertains to both you and the provider, states...
"Always remember, THINK BEFORE YOU ACT, because you can never turn back the clock!
... and to let her know if you decided to indulge. That really should have been the end of the discussion.
When I worked in retail, I was sitting at my station, looking in front of me and this nicely dressed, fairly-attractive thin woman with long reddish hair crossed my line of sight. She was walking towards me and to my right where the exit doors were. A few seconds had passed and she blurted out at me, “If your face was a garbage can, I’d throw this at you.” She had what appeared to be a small crumbled paper in her hand. Then she made her way towards the exit and left the store. The whole incident from when I first saw her to her exit lasted no more than 10 seconds. I never saw her again.
Now I’ll have to admit, I was slightly taken aback by how she acted; the disrespect was absurd. What she said had nothing to do with me. But it got me thinking, should I reflect and make excuses to what triggered her anger to say such an unjustified and foolish thing to me? Should I put it out there to others looking for their advice to why she said what she said?
I bet you if I did, I’d across someone who would say that I did something wrong for her to behave that way and she was justified. Someone would say you need to hear her side of the story. Someone would make the excuse that she may have had a bad day or experience with the store and she was taking her frustrations out on the next employee she saw.
As simple as my example is, I’m feeling a similar ridiculousness to your story and question. You know, you’re going to come across bad apples that will do unexpected and unfair things. You’ve just happen to come across one and you’re trying to make sense of it all.
However, when it comes down to these negotiating with escort threads (and there has been several) some get so worked up about it, it’s as if they don’t have anything more important to be upset about, like real-life emergencies and threats. It’s the drama of the dumbfounded
It's never okay for us guys to suggest, negotiate, intimate, hint, offer, haggle, regatear, reminisce over old price points, bargain, nor anything resembling coming up with a lower price than what's advertised. She actually cut you some slack on your first hint. Not on your second. Hell hath no fury than a provider haggled.
However, it is okay for the lady, of her own accord, to offer anyone, mostly favorite gents, incentives, or deals. An old atf needed to make her rent payment, so she needed more money up front than her hourly rate. So she offered me five sessions for the price of two and a half. The only stipulation was that I pay her up front so she could make rent. We actually did it a second time. But it was her idea both times. Then there was the lady who coined the advertising phrase from the TV show, Deal or No Deal. You could actually offer her a rate you felt comfortable paying. She would reply with Deal or No Deal. Once again, her idea to drum up business.
B.S. I've done it, gotten away with it, and I'm a relative newbie. Even for the hobbyland definition of "haggling" your strictures are totally lopsided.
You wouldn't even, for instance, ask about being grandfathered in at the price you just paid to see a provider immediately after she bumps up her rates? Why not? She doesn't have to go along with it, but it'd hardly get you blacklisted.
Just as there are conventions about negotiating (or not), there are conventions about discounts.
based on a lot of conversations I've had with ladies who do say "oh sure, of course!" to the client, it doesn't make 'em wet by any means lol!
You wouldn't even, for instance, ask about being grandfathered in at the price you just paid to see a provider immediately after she bumps up her rates? Why not? She doesn't have to go along with it, but it'd hardly get you blacklisted.
Just as there are conventions about negotiating (or not), there are conventions about discounts.
I am concerned with how wet it makes them insofar as I want them to be in the swing of things, if you know what I mean. I wouldn't presume they're always happy to see me, but I've never been in a session where I got the idea she was thinking, "I can't believe I'm leaving $50 on the table."
Every time I have paid less than sticker price (because I was grandfathered in, because I got an extension on a special rate, or whatever) it felt like every other session with the lady. So it doesn't hurt their performance, at least.
An atf’s ad clearly denoted that grandfathering was always available. When her rates went up $50, I asked about it. She said if I paid the new rate this time, I’d be grandfathered forever at the old rate. So I paid the new rate, and then for the next session, I brought the old rate. She went ballistic in an email after that next session. I reminded her of what she had said. She remembered, and calmed down. The next time I asked for a session, she was unavailable. After two more times of being unavailable, I got the message. Because of my negative experience with grandfathering, I’ll never bring it up again. I’ll simply pay the new rate, or quietly move on. All my hobby rules come from negative experiences. Glad yours was positive.
Does grandfathering work both ways? Would you pay a lady at her old rate if her rate went down because of lagging business? That happened to me four years ago, and I still pay the old, higher rate, even though I don’t have to
I wouldn't reverse-grandfather, no. But I wouldn't hold it against a lady for asking. A provider has, in fact, upped the price on me after an appointment had been set. Those were special circumstances, and I didn't hold it against her.
Lots of ladies like repeat customers, and they will make concessions for them. That's a fact, and that's one reason why negotiation is sometimes appropriate. I can understand why you'd set a rule based on a particular bad experience. In fact, your situation was by no means haggling, since you were only asking about what she said in her ad.
What I can't for the life of me understand is this blanket rule about never even thinking about seeking a lower rate. What? Why?
-- Modified on 12/29/2016 12:00:45 PM
-- Modified on 12/29/2016 12:12:52 PM
By the way, you could just as easily have used that bad experience to formulate the rule that you always confirm the rate beforehand. Or at least bring enough to cover the lady's regular rate and ask about it at the session, if you are paying any kind of special rate. Your mistake was as much not allowing for her forgetfulness (if that's really what happened) as deigning to negotiate.
I always confirm, and I often bring extra cash, just in case. But that's me; I'm paranoid about rates.
You did the old trick. Book a date agreeing to the full rate so she will hold the time slot, and when time gets close, she's already "counted the money in her head," and can't fill the slot - so voila - at least she gets something. Now she didn't fall for it, so you got butt hurt that you got called out and beat in your own game by a girl. lol!
If you think no-one else has played this trick, you are very wrong. This one is amateur level, and she knew the trick already. She is not an amateur, I presume lol! You, my friend, are an amateur. Now, when the lovely lady gave you a cordial first response, but you responded again trying to manipulate a lower rate, you started to "poke the bear". The final straw, asking her to pay you for a service you haven't advertised, practiced, nor put in the effort toward your body, skills, and presentation to provide at the rate she charges.
Nobody is lucky to see you with that attitude, and you deserved to be kicked off that site.
Any man coming to the board under an alias crying "bitch" at a woman who checked him for his shitty, condescending actions has some screws loose. Any man I've ever seen call a woman a bitch like this was abusive towards women. Sure, you feel you have the right to call her a bitch for checking you when you were being a whiny little bitch - but for real, any decent man doesn't react like this to consequences.
Now, don't sit here and read this and deny it. You KNOW what you were doing and that it was intentional. And now you're crying because somebody played back - and won. hahahahaha
-- Modified on 12/28/2016 2:20:49 AM
Excuse me? I did no such thing. How about you go fuck yourself?
You are manipulative. Unfortunately, your manipulation didn't work, and you are crying like a little baby.
Psst. I don't need to fuck myself - I have plenty of options, both women and men - because I play fair. I don't run over people like you do.
Your projections say more about you than they do about me.
So many people floundering, wasting time being bitter, trying to "make others pay", playing the victim - when they can be doing something about their situation.
Were you $400 short? Go find and sell some scrap metal. Go clean someone's house. I guarantee you, doing that is much more lucrative than trying to get a discount from an agency girl.
whiny bitch got caught ... lol.
Now everyone is a bitch or a bastard...
this is such a long thread ... did anyone
agree with him? I doubt it. Maybe his TER
handle is The Haggler?
-- Modified on 12/28/2016 4:24:05 PM
You're getting pretty much the same response from everyone. You started this asking for our view. If you don't like what you're hearing you have two reasonable options: 1) take the advice given and move on or 2) STFU and go have a beer to cry in.
Not sure why you want to take option 3 and use that shovel someone provided but by now it's got to be getting hot down there -- you must be close to the magma!
(Have the admins been keeping score here, if so please post -- but maybe start a pool so we can take some guesses at just how few points this guy's successfully made
Courtney, How about you go fuck yourself? I'd pay you to watch, lol
*just did*
muuuuahahahaha
I would really love for "The Bitch" who got him kicked off P 411 were to come on here and tell her side of the story, I bet you it would be VERY entertaining and much different that the tale he has told us.
Any woman who is smarter than the one trying to play her is a "bitch". lol!
To me, she accepted the cancellation with no cancel fee, and was cordial - he had to keep poking the bear. lol!
He pokes more bears than ladies!
Great post!
If you think no-one else has played this trick, you are very wrong. This one is amateur level, and she knew the trick already. She is not an amateur, I presume lol! You, my friend, are an amateur. Now, when the lovely lady gave you a cordial first response, but you responded again trying to manipulate a lower rate, you started to "poke the bear". The final straw, asking her to pay you for a service you haven't advertised, practiced, nor put in the effort toward your body, skills, and presentation to provide at the rate she charges.
Nobody is lucky to see you with that attitude, and you deserved to be kicked off that site.
Any man coming to the board under an alias crying "bitch" at a woman who checked him for his shitty, condescending actions has some screws loose. Any man I've ever seen call a woman a bitch like this was abusive towards women. Sure, you feel you have the right to call her a bitch for checking you when you were being a whiny little bitch - but for real, any decent man doesn't react like this to consequences.
Now, don't sit here and read this and deny it. You KNOW what you were doing and that it was intentional. And now you're crying because somebody played back - and won. hahahahaha
-- Modified on 12/28/2016 2:20:49 AM
Never mention your bank account and whether you have the funds. Never suggest that a lady indulge herself to meet you at your level. This only comes off as cocky and rude.
If you booked an appointment when you had the funds required at her listed rate, but no longer had the required funds, how is that her problem? Cancelling was the best thing to do, but not trying to get her to feel sorry for you and your financial situation.
I would love to know what her hourly rate was. Why Could you Not keep or maintain the required funds? If you are living so dangerously to the edge financially, perhaps you need to take a break from the hobby, save up appropriately, and book only when you are certain you have the funds.
Telling a lady you no longer have the required funds to see her is a big no no. You should be more financially responsible for your situation, not expect her or others to have sympathy for your situation. Never discuss your financial situation with anyone in the hobby.
This is a segue into proper and appropriate ways to cancel, though you probably never should have booked in the first place. Shit happens and so do cancellations in every business. Be tactful, respectful, and communicate as early as possible.
Apologize to her for your wrong doing and move on.
My verification account just got revoked due to a complaint by a local provider that I was haggling, let's call her "bitch" to protect the guilty...
I never suggested that she lower her rate, or offered an amount I was willing to pay other than her listed rate. I told her that I needed to cancel an appt (well in advance) because it was no longer in my budget but that if she was feeling negotiable maybe we could still work something out and she said that she does not negotiate but that if I wanted to indulge myself anyway to let her know. To which I responded that my bank account would not allow such indulgence but if she wanted to indulge herself in me, to let me know. To which she went berserk and said she'd be reporting me.
So is a perception of price dispute the same thing as an actual price dispute? Is suggesting that someone might negotiate were they reasonable the same thing as negotiating? I never actually engaged in "haggling" as it is defined. "Bitch" apparently has a lot of pull, because I was given no warning about this behavior and told that my account was permanently revoked, despite the fact that I don't feel I did anything actually wrong.
-- Modified on 12/28/2016 7:10:12 AM
-- Modified on 12/28/2016 1:05:04 PM
If you feel someone over charges you just don't see them plain and simple.
It's not the same.
Some well above. Some people don't want to see "that guy". lol!
-- Modified on 12/28/2016 4:27:21 PM
My verification account just got revoked due to a complaint by a local provider that I was haggling, let's call her "bitch" to protect the guilty...
I never suggested that she lower her rate, or offered an amount I was willing to pay other than her listed rate. I told her that I needed to cancel an appt (well in advance) because it was no longer in my budget but that if she was feeling negotiable maybe we could still work something out and she said that she does not negotiate but that if I wanted to indulge myself anyway to let her know. To which I responded that my bank account would not allow such indulgence but if she wanted to indulge herself in me, to let me know. To which she went berserk and said she'd be reporting me.
So is a perception of price dispute the same thing as an actual price dispute? Is suggesting that someone might negotiate were they reasonable the same thing as negotiating? I never actually engaged in "haggling" as it is defined. "Bitch" apparently has a lot of pull, because I was given no warning about this behavior and told that my account was permanently revoked, despite the fact that I don't feel I did anything actually wrong.
-- Modified on 12/28/2016 5:51:49 PM
-- Modified on 12/28/2016 5:56:56 PM
A few on the thread have made mention of P411. Were you, in fact, booted from P411 or from another site? Asking.. because my opinion on the matter will fluctuate based on this
Answer: Haggling is what you epically failed at in this situation. Yup, you were haggling. Badly. But you already knew that. That's why you're here in alias. Clod.
Was not an attempted negotiation (which is absolutely, by definition, what you were doing with your first message to her), but rather your incredibly goofy nonsensical 2nd reply to her: "if she wanted to indulge herself in me, to let me know."
That is beyond lame. Even on a dating website that would be a complete loser-line. But to expect this to soften up a pro to maybe give you a break? Really?? What was she supposed to think that meant, other than the words on the neon sign that started flashing in her head, "TIME WASTER"?
Yeah, you messed up. And in a way that made you appear worse than a negotiator - your own words could be interpretted to indicate that you were looking for a FREE hookup. Thus, this was seeming less like a potential business arrangement, and more like just a cocky guy looking for a hookup, in absolutely 100% the WRONG place for that (like walking into ANY retail establishment and asking for something for free).
Hopefully you've learned from your mistake.
We didn't see the actual exchange, just his paraphrase. He said she brought up indulgence (him indulging in her), and he could have just been mirroring her language. Judging by his writing skills in general, he was probably doing so poorly. But I wouldn't get carried away with how sleezy you think he was being. It would be another thing if he had brought it up out of the blue.
Maybe he was as sleezy as you imagine, but I'd like to keep an open mind. I'm much more concerned with his double-talk and fuzzy logic.
I see we are ending the year with a double dose of dogpiling and virtue signaling.
Since you cancelled the appointment well in advance, I don't see why you felt the need to provide an explanation for the cancellation. If she's out of your budget, just make an appointment with a well-reviewed girl who fits your budget. You don't owe her an explanation. Just my opinion.
mention rates is when she doesn't have an established rate for a certain amount of time (ie: she has 1 hr and 2 hr rates but no 1.5 hr). Then and only then will I suggest a rate beneficial to both parties. And I only do this with a lady that I have already seen before. So far, they have immediately accepted the suggested rate for the particular amount of time that I was looking for.
To be fair, all he claims to have said was that they could work something out. Which, contrary to his self-justification, was an attempt to get her to lower her rate. But he didn't actually mention rates, so far as he told us.