Although I have respect for your opinion, I did feel it was kinda harsh - and obviously, a new lady felt the same way.
Ya, we can all have a very good discussion of what you would do IF there was no internet and what people did in the past, but it truly is a moot point cuz we are in the here & now.
Of course, we will also find that many ladies have their way of screening and honestly, there is no EXACT, CORRECT WAY of doing it ... it is what is most comfortable for the lady and the gent.
It just got me to thinking that YOUR reviews are a gentleman's reference for the service you provide. And we can also argue about reviews, etc ... cuz I for one would prefer NOT to have them.
Now, if I did not have ANY reviews, I would not have as much business. Honestly, the BEST form of advertising is by WORD OF MOUTH ... call them reviews or referrals ... you see them in many businesses and it is a part of life.
Many of the most successful businesses and top paid people of ANY industry rely on word of mouth, referrals, and reviews. Think of your mechanic who refers you to a smog station or tire store - these people work TOGETHER for the better of the good and RELY on each other.
IMHO, I believe in teamwork and will give whatever I can in this industry when it comes to SAFETY. It is a given that I can't give a 100% guarantee cuz we are dealing with people and not a product - and regardless, both can malfunction at some point in time.
It's called KARMA ... And you don't have ANYTHING in life, unless you give it away - and I am sure not talking about freebies here!
So many folks are coming to me and when I ask for ref's I've been hearing more and more that they are happy to give me the provider's info but she doesn't give ref's. Okay, that's her right. So let's try something, after the appointment ask if you can use her as a reference and then put that in the bottom of the review...
"great service (blah blah blah)"
"I asked if I could use her as a refernce and she said NO. She doesn't give references."
If you find out later, add it in if you have the time to go through the trouble. This just might help some ladies do the right thing IMO
What reason is given for not giving a ref? is it to avoid bad mouthing a guest? or do I smell hatoraide coming from the provider who won't give a ref? Why don't more of us use the whitelist system? If a guest decided to spend time with a lady & write a review , the very least we can do is either take 10 seconds to whitelist him or give your co worker a ref.
I agree and I don't HATE on those that don't provide references. I send one e-mail and if I don't hear back.. oh well. It's their choice and I know that I am no better or worse for having a different opinion than someone. But I do think it should be out there for the guys to know about so they can use it as part of their screening for us, just as we screen them. Some guys won't want to see someone who won't offer a reference and many more don't give a damn. I'm just of the mind that it should be out there for them to see.
Make sure you also mention if the lady... INSTEAD actually treats you like an individual and wants to know about YOU... instead of asking a complete stranger if you are "OK". (?!)
You see I NEVER ask for references. If is an indelicate and flawed method of finding suitable new friends.
My verification method is not 20 questions. I talk to you, you talk to me and we get to know one anther. I give SUPERIOR service. I CATER to my clients.
In my long career I use to give 'references' but dealing with so many very rude, ill equipped, and what I suspect to be emotionally unstable ladies expecting me to do their verification for them, calling me with a first name and an email addy, or a name of someone I saw 8 yrs ago, one time.. cursing me if I don't remember someone... etc. I grew tired and SOLELY don't want to be bothered with another persons (client's or escort's) business matters.
Its YOUR business, not MINE to arrange your appointment or dates.
So why is that a problem with you poster? I don't use that method *NEVER HAVE* so why condemn people like me who don't want to participate in what I consider a very poor method of approval?
If anyone adds that to a review they better be able to back up the comment with an explanation and some reason why they think the usurping of my time extends to decades of additional service to them being an intermediary ...
Verification without the 'ask a stranger' method is simple. If you've seen me, you've been verified without handing out references. Each person is an individual and I treat them as such. Each verification varies slightly as a result. Maybe you should see ladies who are smart enough to actually speak to you directly and decide if they like you.. and if you are a threat to their livelihood.
If a group of ladies WANT to use this system..more power to them if they feel it works (which I don't). But any one who DEMANDS another participate and complains when they don't get their way.. is a LEACH.
Great reply Alea.......nice to hear your perspective.
Do you use the Whitelist method? That kinda releases you or any provider from dishing out any details of your time spent with a guest. It is a simple stamp of approval that this guest is not a crazed lunatic.
Every provider has different methodologies for screening a potential guest. Giving a guest a referral is not asking anyone to do my work, but screening a potential guest via asking a provider means I have a human voice and my co-worker backing up the findings of my screening or telling me something that cannot be found during any other sort of screening...ie CRAZY PEOPLE HAVE LAWS THAT PROTECT THEIR PRIVACY...only a person who has spent time with that mentally distrubed guest can say "girl he sat in the corner and talked to his invisible friend "the cookie monster" until I had to call mobile crisis" ....I call for a reference and check that box and move to my next step in verifying and doing everything I possibly can to help me not end up a featured story on an episode of Cold Case Files.
I have posted several times in discussions regarding references and I have drawn the ire of many providers with my opinion that references are a courtesy, not an obligation.
I WhiteList all of my deserving guests, offer Date-Check IDs, give personal referrals and recommendations for providers within my network who I think will get on well with my clients, etc. I do utilize references as a part of my process BUT I request them with respect, am thorough and considerate and I ALWAYS follow up to acknowledge the provider who has taken time out of her business day to draw upon her personal experience.
Too many providers insist on a very lazy method of screening - allowing other providers to do their homework for them and feel downright ENTITLED to the luxury of another business's memory or record.
I am grateful for the opportunity to speak with women who I would not ordinarily have the chance to when I seek references and I am honored when I am asked. It's very exciting to see some names cross my inbox because I admire many other providers and am happy to be in their company. BUT if I had to survive tomorrow without a reference system, I am confident that I could do so. Providers who rely upon references 100% need to ask themselves if they could do the same, and if not why not- and work to correct the fatal flaws in their screening processes.
Thank you Alea for relaying your honest perspective.
I have posted several times in discussions regarding references and I have drawn the ire of many providers with my opinion that references are a courtesy, not an obligation.
I WhiteList all of my deserving guests, offer Date-Check IDs, give personal referrals and recommendations for providers within my network who I think will get on well with my clients, etc. I do utilize references as a part of my process BUT I request them with respect, am thorough and considerate and I ALWAYS follow up to acknowledge the provider who has taken time out of her business day to draw upon her personal experience.
Too many providers insist on a very lazy method of screening - allowing other providers to do their homework for them and feel downright ENTITLED to the luxury of another business's memory or record.
I am grateful for the opportunity to speak with women who I would not ordinarily have the chance to when I seek references and I am honored when I am asked. It's very exciting to see some names cross my inbox because I admire many other providers and am happy to be in their company. BUT if I had to survive tomorrow without a reference system, I am confident that I could do so. Providers who rely upon references 100% need to ask themselves if they could do the same, and if not why not- and work to correct the fatal flaws in their screening processes.
Thank you Alea for relaying your honest perspective.
You either give references or you don't. Provider references - *recent* ones - have been an acceptable method of verification since long before this board existed. Of course you can't be expected to vouch for a client you saw 8 years ago - what a silly example. And how silly it would be for another provider to try to verify such a reference.
Most ladies in this business try to stick together and help each other out. Some obviously have an 'it's every woman for herself, I got mine so FU' attitude. Nice to know who is who, I'm sure, both from a client and a provider perspective.
On a side note, I have been seeing a banner on a few ladies' sites that says "I give references". I find that a definite plus - I'm just sayin'.
A client spends his time and money with you. Those are valuable resources. Offering to reference for him for a reasonable amount time is a courtesy but it is also part of the "job" IMO. Offering to reference a guy doesn't require you to be used forever or put you into servitude for years to the guy. But for 6mos or a year he should be able to have a provider e-mail you for a thumbs up or thumbs down.
References are PART of screening. Not all and not what's depended upon but it's an important part in some of our eyes. I more often use references to make sure the gent I am dealing with is a practiced hobbiest who knows how to have an appt and that they are at least capable of behaving well in closed quarters though it's no guarantee that they will behave with you.
NO LEACH here, and not depending on you and your screening methods are for you to decide. But references are part of this profession whether or not you participate or short your customers otherwise.
HUH??? LOL. Seriously we set OUR appts. Asking a lady for a references IS NOT work for the lady being asked. It's simply have you seen this guy, is he an axe murderer? I don't give a shit about what YOU did with the client personally. I just want to know if he is legit.
If a provider has a problem taking 3 minutes out of her day to give an OK then I agree with Erica, it should be on the review. And why should there be an explanation?? Either she gives references or she doesn't. None of us need an explanation of why or why not, just like most of us don't need details of what the reference lady did with the client. Each session can vary so once again, I don't care about what you did with the guy. I am simply asking because I want to know if he's a psycho or if he is a cop.
I am happy to provide references because it gives me a piece of mind that not only am I helping out the gentleman to see another lady, since he was kind enough in the first place, to see me. But I also like being able to help other ladies.
I've never understood why ladies have a problem giving references. Makes no sense to me but like Erica also said, that's THEIR prerogative. However, I also think it should be made known because that way us ladies who do ask for references don't waste our time emailing or calling a lady who is going to be crass and not give a reference.
I am a relatively new provider and frankly your response is scary to me. I need all the help I can get, and I have admired your post, website, and all your information from afar until now.
It is frightening to think I would really need a reference after I have gone through every other channel I can think of or seek out, call you and get told off? Considering this is a national board and millions of little eyeballs read this board everyday, was it smart to post your rebuttal? Should you have said what you had to say on the providers’ board, where your current clients, potential clients, and new providers cannot read it?
You were new at one point and time. What if someone posted something as harsh as that and you read it? My impressions are "Boy she is nice to look at, but maybe not so nice to be around Alea is out for number one and fuck everybody else"
One day I will have all the reviews and status you have, be as well known, and well reviewed. But I don't think I will be as hostile to the sisterhood I thought we were supposed to have here. I don't really care how long I stay in the business, it is not in my character to not want to help people and be selfish. I am a nice person in and out of the lifestyle and if I can help someone I will help them. End of story.
It is nice to be important, but it is even more important to be nice. Because the head you stepped on to get to the top, may be connected to the ASS YOU HAVE TO KISS TO GET UP FROM A FALL.
Although I have respect for your opinion, I did feel it was kinda harsh - and obviously, a new lady felt the same way.
Ya, we can all have a very good discussion of what you would do IF there was no internet and what people did in the past, but it truly is a moot point cuz we are in the here & now.
Of course, we will also find that many ladies have their way of screening and honestly, there is no EXACT, CORRECT WAY of doing it ... it is what is most comfortable for the lady and the gent.
It just got me to thinking that YOUR reviews are a gentleman's reference for the service you provide. And we can also argue about reviews, etc ... cuz I for one would prefer NOT to have them.
Now, if I did not have ANY reviews, I would not have as much business. Honestly, the BEST form of advertising is by WORD OF MOUTH ... call them reviews or referrals ... you see them in many businesses and it is a part of life.
Many of the most successful businesses and top paid people of ANY industry rely on word of mouth, referrals, and reviews. Think of your mechanic who refers you to a smog station or tire store - these people work TOGETHER for the better of the good and RELY on each other.
IMHO, I believe in teamwork and will give whatever I can in this industry when it comes to SAFETY. It is a given that I can't give a 100% guarantee cuz we are dealing with people and not a product - and regardless, both can malfunction at some point in time.
It's called KARMA ... And you don't have ANYTHING in life, unless you give it away - and I am sure not talking about freebies here!
Yes it is a flawed method but all methods are flawed. It is one of many methods that can and should be used by both parties involved in the appointment making process.
i also would never ask for references, and in fact when a gent offers them (usually in the initial email contact), it is a big red flag for me and i will generally not see that person. i have no desire to see gents who are "experienced hobbyists," who are members of date-check and have a list of provider references a mile long. this to me indicates that the person is not looking for someone special, he is simply looking for a good time. more than likely he is someone who is seeking fun and variety with a bevy of ladies...nothing at all wrong with that, but that is just not the type of client i wish to attract or spend time with.
the overwhelming majority of my regulars have little to no experience in the "hobby" before seeing me, they were gents searching for a real connection with another human being, something that was missing in their lives. it's very important to me to develop a kind of intimacy with my clients, and for our relationship to be one of meaning and value, not some cold business transaction or meaningless and easily forgotten sexual fling.
therefore, offering references is a bad sign for me. however, i will give references if asked because i have no reason not to. so far i have only had to give one reference to another provider, and whether the particular gent intended it that way or not, i took that as a closure to the relationship he and i previously shared. in other words, i have no desire to be "one of" the providers a man is seeing, so a reference request will always be taken as a "goodbye, nice knowing ya" in my book.
That because a gentleman who has seen you, decides he wants to see another lady, then you don't think you'll ever see him again? Like it was just a one time deal??
Now sometimes that is true. But I have regulars that I've seen for 3+ years and they use me as a reference when they travel to other cities etc but they still see me.
Personally, I think this "HOBBY" is about variety. Who am I to say he can't see someone else? I don't "own" my clients and I am not possessive over them. I'm not looking for a relationship with my clients other than a nice friendship. They joy of this hobby is that it is NO strings attached. That is why I give references. I think a man should be able to chose who he sees and when. And since he chose me to spend his time and money with me, THE LEAST I can do for him is give a reference.
Men who offer me references I adore, because it makes my life ten times easier and eliminates unnecessary emails.
first, i have VERY little experience with "one time deals." if i have seen a gent only once, that means that either the chemistry was awful or i felt uneasy around that person. i am not in this hobby to meet countless new faces just looking to get their wicks wet (always wanted to use that expression, teehee). my motivations are drastically different from that of the majority of providers/escorts, therefore the type of gents i see and the type of relationship that i seek with those gents is drastically different.
for instance, for me it is not uncommon to exchange half a dozen or more emails and at least as many phone calls with a potential client before ever meeting them. that is because i believe in taking the time to dig DEEP and truly get to know a man, his needs and desires, his personality, his character etc. this tells me whether or not he and i would be compatible, it is very effective screening for safety, and it provides a solid foundation for a genuine connection and meaningful long-term relationship.
the client who sought a reference from me was a gent i had seen multiple times. we had known each other quite some time, and although we were not as close as i am with many of my regulars, we still had a very comfortable relationship. he went about things in precisely the right manner...he asked my permission first, and once i gave the okay he had the provider contact me herself by email, just as i had requested. i responded to her promptly, answering her few questions and nothing more, and that was that.
however the fact that he is seeking another provider, tells me that he is still in an "exploring" phase, still trying to experience new things and see what works for him. and again, nothing at all is wrong with that, but that is not the kind of person i wish to see. therefore, i will not be seeing that particular gent again, whether he wishes to continue the relationship or not.
The wicks wet phrase was very cute lol. I understand we all target a demographic in this business, however, why should a man only have ONE lady he sees?
If that is what he wanted most men would be at home with their SO's IMO. (Please do not take any of this as me saying you are wrong babe because I'm not at all. We all do things differently.)
I have also stopped communication with clients because we did not click etc. We can't please them all. I think reading reviews that a member has written gives me fairly good insight as to what they like also. I exchange emails with my potential clients as well. However, I don't think I can judge HOW something is going to go in the room via an email when I won't discuss those details in depth. Another reason I don't ask ladies for details of THEIR rendezvous with a gentleman. Every time is different.
My simple point is, is it THAT hard to take 3 minutes out of your day to help another lady feel safe about seeing a potential client? Do we have to be THAT stingy? Ladies say they are here to cater to the men however, NOT providing a reference isn't catering to the man. You are basically saying, you don't see me I'm not going to reference so you can see someone else. I just do not understand why giving a simple reference, yes or no, is such a hard thing for some of these ladies to do.
Oh and also, did you NOT expect a lady to ask you for the reference? Did you expect someone else other than her to email you? I know when I ask a lady for a reference I am the one sending her the email. I'm a little confused about that part.
thats a bit hypocritical Lilli don't ya think, on your part. You see many clients but don't want them to see many providers. Sounds like you are looking for a relationship maybe. Sorry I never quite get your whole, master slave submissive used chick thing, the whole my husband is my master bs...you are into. I have no issue with it but I think you stand pretty much alone in the ideas you have on the "hobby" what works for you works for you I guess and I don't really need to get it. This hobby I see as about variety.
no, i do not seek a romantic relationship with any of my clients, and no relationship with a client ever comes close to crossing that line. however i do develop close connections and in rare cases, genuine friendships (and for me "friend" is not a term to be used loosely) with the men i see.
yes, i am very different from the typical provider, heck, the typical woman period...in more ways than i could ever count. however i do not stand alone. the gents who see me time and time again do so because they appreciate the fact that i am different, they value the unique qualities and experience i have to offer, and they have a need for that kind of connection with a woman, something that's a bit beyond the physical.
you say i see "many" clients but don't want my clients to see many providers. well first "many" would be a gross exaggeration, but obviously yes i do have multiple clients. and yes, ideally i would hope to be the only escort they see, once they begin seeing me on a regular basis. an exception would be someone who spends long stretches of time living elsewhere (another region of the country or outside the country altogether). why? because again, i seek gents who have a real void in their lives, a serious need that must be addressed in order for them to be at peace/balanced in life. that is where i feel that i am truly SERVING, and i am in this hobby first and foremost to SERVE men who are in need.
imagine you run a public kitchen to feed the hungry. any hungry soul who comes to your door, you are overjoyed and eager to fill their plates, send them away with groceries. but then you have a few completely healthy, financially secure and very well-fed folks who come to your door looking for hand-outs. do you treat those people just the same, use your precious resources for those who have no need for it? of course not. that is my approach to this hobby.
btw Nicole, i have never disrespected you and in fact have spoken up in agreement with you several times on these boards. so i do not understand the reason for this very rude and disrespectful tone from you, especially towards my Husband. some lines one just doesn't cross.
I do not disrespect your husband, I don't know him. The whole idea of being that submissive, comes across to me as weak. Thats just me though. I prefer to be my own person making my own choices and living my life the way I choose so yes, I see it as BS...for me that is. You are good with it, so be it. Each to their own. Like I said I just don't get it.
i specified to the gent that the provider had to contact me directly via email (not phone as that's highly personal info for me), because i honestly did not know how these things typically work. this is not really a business for me, therefore i do not conduct myself or think in a very business-like manner. many parts of this hobby are completely unfamiliar or even totally unknown to me, and i rather like it that way. so, never having dealt with the reference issue before, i did not know how that would be handled.
but again i have no problem providing a reference, i would never deny such a request. but i also would not continue the relationship with that particular client, that is just not my style.
While I agree with the sentiment of your statement, I don't agree with the way it was expressed.
Yes, Lilli apparently does have a very different approach to the 'hobby'. Yes, that does mean that her views and opinions on some issues will not fall into line with the vast majority of providers on TER.
On the other hand, I find her posts very interesting. They represent a very different perspective not only on this little world here, but in the Real World as well. I welcome her thoughts and insights for that - and for the fact that she can write cogent, grammatically correct, and properly spelled paragraphs. That can be refreshing after reading so many posts here.
Just because she does things differently doesn't mean they are wrong. And I don't think she is trying to say that what she does is the only correct way. I don't approach life the same way she does. And I apparently could never be a client of hers (too many reviews), but I am still interested in what she has to say.
How do you know for sure unless you have asked for a picture ID. Many gentelmen don't like to provide that so how sure are you who your saying yes to.
I gave a gentlemen my OK to see a lady and the man that showed up was one of his buddies not the gentleman I saw. He was rude, drinking and not well mannered. How do I know it wasn't the same guy...Hair color and height.
How do you give a reference for someone you saw once..Many times I don't ID as many ladies do. It's the quality of the reference that counts and that lady might be doing you a favor.
I have been in Orlando over 17 years and have seen many one or two shot deals that I know or remember things about him with his first name. Does this constitute a reference. Ladies have asked ? Do I even bother
If you haven't ID a gentlemen can you really give a reference ladies ? I think that is the next question you need to ask the lady before you have a stranger walking through your door. Far too many ladies seem to think the reference is worth it's weight in gold but I use other methods that work for me.
Kisses Haley
PS..I use the whitelist myself when I know who I have seen
and they can use fake IDs and they circumvent anyone if they are evil enough and put enough time into it. I get the ID to make sure the ONLINE screening I did was actually them, not to make sure the reference was actually him.
while looking at her web site, I noticed a new addition...stating that as of a certain date she would no longer provide references. Seemed kind of odd since she demands a string of them to see HER. Needless to say, my list is one lady shorter!
If a lady is asking for references then why the hell won't she provide them?? So basically she is saying I need references but FU if you want one from me, I don't have time to tell you yes or no.
Amazing how caddy some people can be in this business. It's not like it takes a long time to answer an email. It's not like we are asking for his height, weight, eye and hair color, what you did, when you did it, how you did it and exact details.
I am seriously baffled that a lady won't give references. Luckily I haven't came across one and I sure hope I never do.
I cannot imagine why someone would not give a reference. This is a cypher and we all have the opportunity to help keep one another safe, happy, and in the hobby. Obviously, not every reference is to be trusted, but it sure helps aid other providers along the way.. "Teamwork makes the Dream work"
I want one of those banners because I like to share references...gonna try to figure out where she got it... PEACE
give reviews? I think that if you think enough of a lady to give her name for a reference, at least a minimal review with a thumbs up for her would be considerate. "I don't do reviews" baffles me. Can someone give me some insight on this hobbyist stance? thanks!
ps I provide refernces when I can but sometimes it takes alot of time to figure out if I really saw the guy....three months ago or even two weeks ago! If they wrote a review...and told me their handle....then I would remember better!
that lil envelope takes care of my time that I spent with you only. The courtisy by the way is extended to the Lady but on behalf of the gentlemen. The refs is so that he can see another lady. Everyone makes out in the end but no, I don't feel its my obligation even though I am happy to do so. A refs is the equivilant of a review. Its always appreciated if you expect to ask for a refs that you show the same courtisy and give a review. really...why should I give my "good housekeeping seal of approval" if you are not willing to do the same. One review is written on one experience. I have clients that use me as a refs over and over again off of one experience. its all good but just stating, the courtisy should go both ways.
I appreciate that you provide references Adelle. Please consider that some gent's simply don't want or don't have the time to write them. And that they can be apain in the ass to get approved - some guys have to submit them over and over. Others don't want their business described in the streets for every VIP to read. I understand and respect it. There are enough reviewers that we can get by without every guy putting himself out there for the world to see
a nod of approval on your own personal web site that does not have to go into any more detail then ...i.e. 'she is a nice lady'. I think if we all want to play in the same snad box then we should all offer a little give and take. And, I believe that the envelope covers that specific time. All my prelude correspondence/flirting as well as digging up a memory of a one time visit...that is because I like to try to play well with others.
thanks for all your input, everybody. I guess like anything else, there are all kinds of opinions!
I find there are many Gentlemen not comfortable with spreading their info all over the planet. If they have good references, ones I am comfortable with then I am ok with that. There are many Ladies I respect and know if they have them as a ref. its good enough for me. Now I am very capable of screening myself, i try to work within the limits that make all comfortable. I also am more than happy to give refs for the Gentlemen I see who also would rather not go through the whole inquiry process with each and every Lady, calling thier work and so on. I have no issues giving a refs to anyone who asks. I see it as a part of the process. A good provider refs in my book anyway will tell me more about the man than his work info and so on.
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