On 3-31-13 there was a ? about the apparent slow down in the traffic in the hobby. I wanted to add my .02. A big part of it for me is prices. My last three raises have not covered the increase in my health insurance. And yes I'm sure a lot of providers would most likely love to have my coverage. I can't even imagine trying to get it while more or less self employed. That being said a lot of gifts have gone up and when they reach my cut off point I no longer consider them. And yes I know the cost of getting by is ridiculous for everyone. I would never dream of saying a lady can't charge whatever she feels like, but I am very thankful for having grandfathered rates from several of my ATF's. There are ladies I have stopped seeing however and I miss them. Also I am from several hundred miles away from the cities and touring seems to be down also. (maybe for the same reasons) bigdell
Me too, the economy, and hi prices have slowed my hobby activities. I usually only see escorts that are offering a special that's under $300. Or, I see rub n tug girls.
I think many providers are reluctant to offer specials, as they erroneously think it devalues what they have to offer.
I feel your pain! We should all write Congress and ask for a Penile Ejaculation Assistance Program (PEAP) to help defer our costs and boost the economy. Derived from the "trickle down theory" this new idea should raise spirits and elevate the GNP by 10% minimum.
Sorry Dell, I don't mean to joke about a serious post. I am pinching my dollars as well. It's all about priorities and my orgasm's aren't worth $350 plus.
Hey Half-Stiff (sorry I couldn't pass it up) no problem. I always wonder when you see a lady bump her rates by $100.00 in one jump if they lose volume and make it up in higher rates. It's up to them. But also up to me who I see. bigdell
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skU-jBFzXl0
mania...
What the hell does that have to do with this thread?
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Recently I saw a top girl, my second time with her. She told me she was not busy at all in the hobby, very low volume. She is one of the most attractive selections out there so I was surprised. I know a couple of UTR types that charge less for time than well known providers, and they are quite hot. Its just like econ 101, the lower prices, the higher the demand, but sometimes that doesn't resonate with the fairer sex.
The oldest profession is still bound by the oldest economic laws.
Having said that, I am not complaining or suggesting that rates are too high or need to be lowered. It is just interesting to me (I love economics) that there is a potentially rational explanation.
The LE disincentive is reduced as price drops and this indicates that it is not a primary disincentive, but a secondary concern that can be bought off by lower cost.
There is also much competition by rub and tugs that do offer FS in some cases, to select clients, for a lower initial cost. Upsell during session is not often considered prior to a rub and tug purchase decision, so the perceived cost is much lower.
My$.02.
Prices for top end services have gone up; frankly, the quality is there. Personally, I hope that the top providers have enough business to go strong and grow.
But it's not a choice between $350 and a rub-and-tug -- unless you want it that way.
There are plenty of good FS alternatives in the 200 - 250 range, not to mention 300. And there are exquisite massage services - Trinity, for one - that are, as one recent reviewer put it, "the closest thing to FS without FS." (I'd say the best GFE without FS)
So settle down and do yourself a favor and shop around the reviews. There's a lot of excellent, varied talent at a variety of price points.
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… take place every couple months, at least. And they always strike me as condescending. Maybe it's just guys chatting about this 'n' that to pass the time. No hidden messages or agendas. Everyone's always careful to declare that the ladies can charge whatever they choose, of course. Which is immediately followed, of course, by the declaration that 'I' can choose not to pay it.
But, see, guys talking to each other about this is just mental masturbation. It's meaningless noise unless the intended audience is the ladies who presumably read this board. And I really wonder what anyone thinks is being accomplished. It takes a certain level of intelligence to be an independent provider at all. And a considerably higher level of intelligence to be a higher end provider. It has been said many times that this board is not the place to send a message to low end backpage girls who come and go. They don't come here. May not even know about TER. So, does anyone really think high-end ladies are ignorant of the basic tenets of supply and demand?
The real fallacy in these discussions is the assumption that the high end ladies are solely reliant on revenue from the hobby and will starve if they can't keep the revenue stream flowing strong. I think that's wrong. Of the ladies I have seen more than once, way over half have told me something about their day jobs, and most have let me know that there is a day job even if they don't care to discuss it. These ladies don't have a pimp behind them taking their money and demanding more. They don't have a drug habit that needs to be fed. They like the money and the improved standard of living, for sure. But they are in this by choice, and a lot of what drives the choice is that they like it. They like to give and receive pleasure. They like it that someone is ready to pony up cash for a chance to be with them. They like the sense of control this gives them over their own lives. They like to be adored, for an hour, and then leave the drama behind. And none of those motives is well served by the advice that 'you could see more guys if you cut your rate.' I always feel like there are a series of little black books being marked with little tick marks that mean 'he disappointed me' when I read those comments.
This is just my opinion based on my experience. I choose the ladies I see after research. And the ones I see again are the ones who offer me a particular experience. So maybe ... probably ... I am self-selecting myself out of seeing a whole segment of the up-scale provider population. No offense is intended to anyone.
there is an alternative to price reductions. every business will look to marketing in slow times. I have several aquatintences who are dealing with a slow down by contacting me to see if I would be interested in gettng together.
in the past couple of months there have been 3 ladies whom I have seen in the recent past who contacted me. when we meet someone in this context the relationship is very warm and fuzzy, because of that almost 100% of the ladies I have met I consider friends. The ladies who contacted me had my permission to contact me. The approch was very friendly; "how are you doing, I miss seeing you and wondered if you could cut out some time to get together, if that works for you give me a shout" to that effect...
Ladies please understand; we are not complicated like you. we are simple and we are dumb, the only thing more exciting that a beautiful lady willing to offer such a wonderful experence is a beautiful lady who chose you' to be the one she wants to be with. Those of us who have met Carmen or Melissa, Trinity or Victoria, the first hug and soft kiss on the neck; we are not dickering price.
Call your fovorite men and tell them you want them, and don't be affraid to let them know you could use a little help keeping the lights on. Any man worth his salt will be there for you. In my case I was able arrange to meet with each of my friends soon after being contacted. I have talked with each sense to see if a little $ help is needed. It might be a good way to figure out who your friends are.
A warm hug and a soft kiss...we are putty in your hands.
The most recent message thread about this topic was started by "breadmaker". This message thread is a continuance of that discussion.
Breadmaker's message detailed a slow-down in business described to him by six established providers. He was attempting to determine a causation for this slow-down in business. If one accepts the statements from the providers via breadmaker's comments, then there must be something going-on in the marketplace. Thus, I don't feel that these discussions are simply a way for hobbyists to pass the time (or mental masturbation).
Note: In your analysis of providers, I believe you missed two important points. First, women are greedy. The day jobs held by your lady friends would probably supply an adequate standard of living. The reach for a higher standard of living and accumulation of material possessions drives their participation in the hobby. Second, women are attracted to danger. The hobby -- with its illegal nature and lack of societal acceptance -- feeds a desire to take personal risks. In any case, the "real" mental masturbation on this message thread is the attempt by hobbyists to discern the motivation for any woman to enter this industry. Each woman has a unique story or motivation for accepting the terms of this endeavor. The noble (i.e., give and receive pleasure, improved standard of living) motivations apply to perhaps the smallest segment of the world-wide prostitution industry. The stereotypes (i.e., pimps, drug habits, human trafficking) probably apply to a much larger segment of the world-wide prostitution industry than any of us on this board are comfortable to confront
I didn't miss breadmaker's thread. I didn't reply because I have no idea why there is a slowdown at this time. Several of the theories made sense, but I had nothing to add. This is a different thread. bigdell didn't start out advising women to lower their rates. He just commented that some rates had gone up and referenced his own situation. But the responses started harking back to the frequent threads in which providers are taught about supply and demand, and advised to lower their rates or offer specials as a way to drum up business. I responded to that.
If you are correct that providers just want money and thrills, then they should all be offering hundred dollar specials on backpage. That'll get them plenty of thrills, anyway. As for the money ... Dial soap (I think) was originally marketed by its developers at a reasonable price that allowed for a reasonable markup. It didn't sell very well at all. They sought advice from a marketing guru who told them to double the price and sales took off because the perceived value of the product changed. If the soap was that expensive, it must be that good. Over time, after the market was established, the price came down to an equilibrium that maximized profit. Too bad soap buyers didn't have a review board at the time.
I am comfortable the ladies I see are not being trafficked. I am alert for signs of drug use, so if it's there, it is well controlled. If there is a guy in the background profitting from the lady's efforts, I'm comfortable he's not the stereotypical pimp with his silver teeth, chromed up Cadillac, and stable of hos. The lady is entitled to choose her living arrangement at home. I don't agree that motivations are eternally opaque and unknowable. But as I said, I self-select after doing research. I could be missing a lot. The world-wide prostitution industry is beyond my scope.
First, this is our local discussion board. Where else would we talk about things like this? I don't see them as condescending nor do I necessarily believe they have hidden agendas. Sometimes, small talk is just that, at least until it turns into something else. Guys have talked about rates as long as I have been around and I don't see that it ever made any significant difference.
I also think you are wrong in thinking that high end providers understand supply and demand. Certainly, many do. But based on my experience and what I have heard from others, many do not. Someone can be intelligent and successful without being a particularly good business person; witness the number of famous athletes, singers, and other performers who manage to blow through the huge sums of money they make. I don't believe escorts are are different in this regard than other groups of people; some are good at all aspects of being an escort and some not so much.
You talk about your opinion being based on your personal experience but the mistake you can make then is believing your experiences are completely representative when of course they are not. They can't be. I've done that very thing any number of times until reality confronts me with hard evidence that what I believed wasn't as true as I thought it to be. There is far too much variety, even in the land of TER hobbyists and escorts for any one person's experience to be truly representative.
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-- Modified on 4/2/2013 11:45:32 PM
As I read your first paragraph, I was all set to get up in arms about your comment. Until I kept reading and discovered I agree completely. Very well put.
I find it odd that you automatically assign a higher than average intelligence and business cunning to rental pussy. I think escorts are like cops: some are great people, some not, some smart, some not, some crazy, some not. Both groups are a cross section of the populace, and as such, will contain members that cut from a wide swath of nearly every demographic.
That said, while I am sure there are plenty of people who will point out the difficulties of working as a sex worker, the time, money and effort required to flourish in the business, the fact remains that much like stripping in a club, the providers do it for the money. And they do it because the money is good.
And much like strippers, many escorts AREN'T very business savvy, and like many humans, they likely compare themselves to other people in their segment of society. Is she making more $$ than I am? Is she getting better ratings? etc etc etc.
Business is slow, huh? How much you want to bet lower prices will speed up the frequency of ringtones on an escorts burner?
Different perspectives is a euphemism. I would go so far as to say there is nothing about us that is any way similar.
There was a dust up a couple of weeks ago where a very respected provider was offended when some one asked if she needed his SOC # for screening. I wonder how she would feel about being refered to as "rental pussy".
I do what I do for money. I always put the clients interest ahead of my own and done that for 30 years. I stopped marketing 15 years ago because I don't need to. Like the ladies who get it, the clients come back and refer there friends where they are treated well.
I read this over and over and I still cant beleive that we are talking about a human who allowed you kiss her and penatrate her in the most intimate way possible and you refer to her as "rental pussy"
Ladies please protect yourself at all times. these people are out there. They walk amoung us. When you meet a man you enjoy being with develop that relationship. Should you encounter a troglodyte refer him to the $50 girls on BP who have de-listed themselves. just tell him the rent is cheap over there
I am not, nor have I ever been, rental pussy.
hear, hear ! Or is it Here, Here? I hate that term. "Rental Pussy " .
I have quite a few names in retort for what I could call a jaded hobbyist but, I'm not a mean girl.
I would picking up my phone twice as much if prices were less, but that goes without saying. When I first approached this hobby I had no idea the depth of the hidden community that existed. I knew that one could sell anything but I did not realize that this was like bottling water, who knew you could sell the shit out of bottled water, same goes for these ladies. There is a clear demand for an escort. Look at the prices they can charge.
I do look at it like a business, however not like selling bottled water. (I hate when people tell me one type of bottled water is better than another) I see these ladies as a rental pussy (I both like and dislike the word choice) with a skill. Not of sexual skill, but that of persuasion. Like a lawyer, clergy member, realtor, or counselor they all have their technical skill, but also have a real skill of persuasion.
This is like any other business. It has ups and it has downs. Any business is going to compare themselves to another but I think this is where escorts could have an edge. You will always have escorts dropping specials on the ad board to get more business, but I believe there is a real
opportunity for escorts work together and increase price while still increasing business. Like bottled water, you cannot even sell it half price in the winter but can sell it for 4 times the price in the summer.
With opposing perspectives like that of minn4ever to yours, whether it is a rental pussy or a companion. I sure the slow times will end and prices will increase regardless of what we say on the board.
I have never dismissed the business part of this. No 25 year old hot body is going to invite me to her bed for no strings no hold bared romp because I am so cute. men have traded $ for intimacy and women trade intimacy for financial support. It has been that way for ever, Eve didn't pick the apple Adam offered it as payment for a bbbj. She lets me be with her because I agreed to pay the asking $.
That doen't change anything. I appericate the fact that I do not have to take her to dinner and meet her mother or be nice to her cat. She is in the game for the money and I am in the game because I love the sex. Chosing to pet and kiss a rental is oxymoronic. If all I want to do is squirt into something I learned at about 13 that I can do that my self.
I am not makeing a judgement, you are free to do what ever you want as long as you don't hurt anyone. For me and others like me I am greatful that these lovely ladies alow me to be with them and ask nothing more than the fee. I would gladly pay $250 today to avoid the "we have to talk" conversation on Tuesday...
this is really interesting. I have nothing more to add personaly but I hope to hear from as many women as are interested. Ladies how do you see it, and what % of your customers fall into one group or the other. I'm out.
you didn't try to pretend you intended no offense by your post. Were you not an alias, there'd be a lot of black books being marked with little tick marks, I suspect. Most of the ladies who read this board understand when a guy starts calling them demeaning names, he is hoping for an indignant response he can have some fun with. Thus the general silence. But there's always someone.
The 'advice' I was talking about was addressed to providers successfully operating in the 300 to 400 range in Minnesota. Based on my own experience, more than some and less than many, I do believe those ladies typically display a significant understanding of the world about them and its workings. Rebutting my comments with generalizations about the entire universe of providers pretty much invalidates your response.
You are correct that you and I approach the hobby, and the ladies in it, very differently. But I'm having a lot of fun approaching things the way I do, so I think I'll just keep on keeping on
I think you may have confused AladinSane with anal-iss. your message refers to both as if it was the same person. I had no issue with your comments or your reasoning. it was anal's reference to rental pussy that I responded to. just wanted to be clear, generalizations about the universe was anal not Aladin.
In Tree view, it is clear from the indents that my post was a direct response to anal-ysis. I didn't say anything to or about you.
You miss out on a lot of nuance if you limit yourself to the Flat view of threads.
Not true that I intended to offend anyone, but I'm not one to mince words, either. Money for sex (or at least the 'fictional' discussion of same), is what this board is about, yet so many White Knights seem to act as though these ladies are potential girlfriends or something.
They are, until your $$ runs out.
Also, referring to the hobby in the manner that I did is also not intended to be 'demeaning' to providers. Jeez!
If a small dose of reality offends the White Knight Corps, then so be it. I'm also going to keep enjoying the hobby from time to time
To bad TER doesn't allow bartering. I would gladly work for play. LOL
sined the sequester bill into law. Whose bright idee was dat, huh?
There's no shortage of demand... I have it burning a hole in my pocket today, but my regular has moved on, my new one isn't answering and I think is booked up, and nobody will even talk to me unless my regulars give a referral. One has dropped off the face of the earth and won't give them it seems, and the other is too busy I think.
The recent scares have made all providers super-particular about referrals. Who can blame them. I think this is part of LE strategy, if I'm honest... demand and supply exist but are petrified of fulfilling the equation.
So, I sit here looking out of the window and am resisting backpage. My kingdom for a nice lady... well, I don't have a kingdom as such but I do have a nice bunch of roses.