I wasn't going to post this, but felt that others may want to know about this experience: The two detectives on the whole MFP/John425 case tracked me down this week. I have to say from the outset that it was not at all what I expected: They did come to my house, but followed me away (I guess) and waited until I was alone in the car to stop me. They asked me to follow them to a coffee shop around the block--which I did (I know what you're gonna say, but my butthole was locked up so tight I couldn't think). They bought, I listened.
I have to say that these two guys could be your neighbors and you'd never know they were LE. They look like construction workers. The smaller one could be a homeless guy! And they weren't the a$%holes I thought they would be, at all! They were very respectful, called me "Mr." and my last name, and treated me with kindness. Not like any cops I've met. I'm posting this because I, like many of us, lost alot of sleep. Now I'm just glad I know what the end game is. And no, I didn't get arrested, though I'm certain they could have.
They did have an unbelievable amount of information. In a binder they had probably 200 driver's license photos, with names, and then TER handles underneath them (I'm not sure how they got 'em, but they got 'em). This is the scary part: They had still photos of me leaving a provider's incall on 2 ocassions--as recently as 2 weeks ago. They promised not to tell anyone in my family, and they promised not to go to my work. The wierd part is that they didn't ask me anything about my behavior in the hobby, though they clearly knew. I can't say here what they did ask, cause they told me not to talk about it, and I pretty sure they read these.
I'm posting this because I'm out...for good. I lost alot of sleep in the last few weeks, and if I'd know it would end like this, I would have taken care of this earlier. They treated me like a citizen rather than a criminal. Just a thought for those still in panic mode. I'be slept pretty good the last few days.
Take care, all
Lawyer Lawyer Lawyer
I think Torius met the Police at least 3 weeks ago when John's group got busted.
And sometime between then and now he provided them with his TER user ID and password.
I believe you. Kudos to the police for not treating you like a common criminal and kudos to you especially for being able to recognize a gift horse in the mouth.
The police could have easily wrecked your life but chose to go easy on you. I don't blame you a bit for saying enough is enough. All good things must eventually come to an end and we all someday have to see the writing on the wall.
Perhaps you will feel differently a month from now or 6 months from now. Perhaps not.
Even though technically names in binders and photos entering and leaving an establishment does not prove guilt on a prostitution charge, I can sympathize with your fear.
I commend you for bowing out gracefully and trying to help others as you exit.
Still, considering the evidence you have already seen, it never hurts to back up the kindness of the police with the advice of counsel.
ciao bella!
If so my condolences, but I have little sympathy for you if you are so easily intimidated.You sound like the mugging victim who thanks his attacker for not killing him.
IMO This is another complete waste of taxpayer money and further evidence of "Big Brother" watching our every move.
It will take a lot more than this to make me quit hobbying and I frankly don't give a fuck who knows what I do.
I wasn't looking for anything from you: condolences or sympathy. When I say I'm out, it's a decision that comes after a long and thoughtful period of consideration--only a small amount of which is related to the current issues. We all started this hobby for our own reasons and I think it's important to reflect on those from time to time to see if it's still right for us. Truth be told, I never felt I was doing right by the ladies in this hobby. I've had some recent conversations with providers I trust deeply that were very revealing about their experiences, and the reasons they are providers at all. None of those conversations left me feeling very good, though the content I have to keep private out of respect for them.
You do what you want. I only posted my experience because I do care what others are going through. I suspect I'm much older than you, and probably have seen a bigger slice of life than you. You seem cocky and self assured. Good for you. But age and time tend to temper that. Hopefully everthing works out just as you want it to.
I am far from "young and cocky."
I have also dated several women in this hobby and know dozens on a personal level. I know what I am talking about.
OTOH if you feel guilty about being in the hobby, then by all means you should get out of it. I take it you are married and have been cheating on your wife, hence the guilt. I feel that your remorse is disengenous, the threat of exposure and prosecution are the real driving force behind your sudden "spiritual rebirth"
If you want to get out of the hobby because of the threat to your "real life" than so be it, we all have to make those decisions for ourselves, but don't delude yourself, or attempt to delude others that LE is your friend in this matter. I have nothing against LE, they are necessary in a civilized society, but when they are tasked to enforce unjust laws they will do so, and do so with vigor. In that case they are no longer public servants,and they certainly are not looking out for your,or my best interests.
Peace, I wish you no ill, but you put your comments out on a public board, you had to know that not everyone would agree with you. I too hope everything works out for you as well.
This is strange? Based on your reviews you seem to be fond of the higher end/traveling ladies. Like the type of guy a higher end client would see.
Yet the providers (more then one) that have confided in you on how unhappy they are sound as if they were street girls or lower end CL girls. Like the type of girls LE would have more contact with.
I have known several girls over the decades that have used this industry to finish college, start a business, buy property, and so on.
I have also known several that used this industry to party, travel, and fulfill expensive wishes while they were young then quit (at will) with little or no notice once they decided to settle down.
Now that we have all this figured out sounds like we should stay away from girls with 2's and 3's along with the girls with 9's and 10's and only support the happy girls with 6's and 7's?
If you try some butt lube on that peg you might get it to fit.
-- Modified on 6/28/2009 3:09:22 PM
-- Modified on 6/28/2009 3:09:54 PM
If everyone got involved. Imagine....(thanks Kimmee for bringing this to my attention again!
http://www.theeroticreview.com/discussion_boards/viewmsg.asp?MessageID=102579&boardID=21&page=
There is no reason that so many resources should be spent on policing a victimless crime simply of morality in a supposed "free country" such as ours.
If less time and effort where spent on hunting down and prosecuting consenting adults it would free up more resources to combat real crimes such as child prostitution and forced prostitution, which IMO is overblown, but does still exist just not in the magnitude portrayed by the overzealous media.
I call bullshit.
Why's that? He has 20 reviews and 6 white list referrals.
Before you develop an ounce of sense.
Thank you original poster for your account, a story which you had no reason to post, especially with your handle or your body of reviews.
To all of the stupid people who think its business as usual, wake the fuck up or shut the fuck up and pay attention to what people around you are trying to tell you.
If that is the message, than my answer is not just no, but "hell fucking no"
If you think that's stupid, that's your right, but to tell the truth I don't really give a fuck about your opinion.
My response came directly under a post which called bullshit on the original poster's message.
So I really couldn't care less about your answer or your lack of feeling about my opinion.
Save us both some time and avoid the alias debate too.
As far as not getting out of the hobby goes, you have that luxury. You're not hobbying or working in a city where dozens of people are under investigation by the Feds so simmer down because my previous opinion obviously isn't applicable to you.
there should be over-limit Walleye, and the hottest topic for debate: Tribal fishing rights.
There is nothing wrong with using reasoning and logic with everything we hear or read. Otherwise Religion, Government, and the News Media would have control of every aspect of our lives.
I don’t believe anyone thinks its "business as usual" in fact we have some very serious issues going on and most are taking precautions.
I have experience dealing with Vice, Feds, and the BCA. With that I call it as I see it. (I used to work the donut counter)
If everything we are made to believe was true I would probably know it before most and I would be the first one running for the hills.
We all have the abilty to decide for ourselfs what we will listen to and what we will question,
And with everything so far, if they want my bottle of moonshine, they will have to pry it from my cold dead hands.
I'm not going to re press the bullshit button this time because I do know for a fact (they showed me the proof and it all checked out,
LE are not the only people with that kind of access .)
they have done this to certain MFP members recently and may continue to annoy and intimidate for sometime .
Anyway
My only advice is to say to please please STFU anyone if they are ever confronted by LE anytime anywhere for anything.
Your mouth is and always will be your worst enemy with them.
No matter how much sunshine they blow up your ass about how they can "help you"out of the hobby/biz(they can't ) & no matter how much scare tactics they use to gain info due to you not being on your game.
Silence is GOLDEN.
XOXO
they get you to trust them, they want you to feel safe and sleep easy because if you dont, you'll want to call an attorney.
dude, they're only assholes after they slap on the cuffs but until then, they'll be your very bestest friends in the whole wide world.
omfg
what happened to name, address, i want to talk to an attorney, stfu ?
it's a interrogation technique, not an invite to the mayor's ball.
Please, please see the cartoons.... or see the chart or actually just google to augment your thinking.
Perhaps pick up a book on negotiation or, even better, interrogation.
The best interrogators are the ones you remember as being so friendly... The kind of guys you might have a beer with or say sip coffee with and talk about the weather.
Thanks for the information, Mr. Torius.
subpoena in the mail.
warrant on the way.
I tried to post a response before, but it didn't make it on the board. Not sure why, but I'll try again:
I'm surprised that my post has created this sort of anxiety. I thought it would help ease some troubled minds, but it appears to have done the opposite. I know I'm not the only one that the police have talked with, so I was stunned that no one else had posted. It has always been my thought that people in the hobby stuck together, so understand why I shared what I did.
Someone calls bullshit? What BS is involved in looking out for each other. Be that as it may, I wish all of you the best in every way. When I say I'm out of the hobby, I accept responsibility for being here in the first place and the choice to leave. I'm not telling anyone else what to do. I started, like most of us did, for my own reasons. The last few weeks have caused me to reflect on those. The "love of women" just isn't enough anymore. Do as you will, but know that I count you all among my friends.
There is one way, and only one way, to look out for everyone. STFU!! You spilled your guts because they were polite and bought you a freakin' coffee?!?!
it seemed the wrong thing to do. I know that the providers can't just start over with a different name. It seemed wrong to hide behind an alias while they were still out here using the same name, prepared to deal with whatever comes there way. I respect them for that.
what did they say would happen from this point?
Charges can always come later, after they have reviewed what you said. So sleep well my friend, there is never ever a good reason to talk with the police. Always ask for a lawyer and let them do the talking... that is something you will never regret.
They don't need to tell you wife and work place, the news media will do it for them. Again they are investigating and building a case, probably setting up for one hell of a weekend of arrests.. 4th of july can be one big fireworks for those that continue to say "please cuff me!"
As for the list they have any girl they arrest can have a phone list with names and numbers...St. Marie kept a nice list of you guys that used his services, and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that reversing the numbers and then cross check with DMV will give you the mother load. DUH.. unless you had a untraceable go phone, you might as well ask for the lawyer.
dont call them.
if they had that much information, they wouldnt still be fishing.
i suspect he did have a talk with them MONTHS AGO.. i think he was one of the first ones they got.
i dont know what nora had set up, but your credit card information and real name wouldve gone to another site.
keep in mind that a forum database only has the information that you submitted when you registered.
just like if you pay for vip on ter, your credit card information is submitted to ccbill, not ter and ter would not have access to it.
they cant match the real names up to the handles and that's why they keep trying to get you guys to call them.
their first question would naturally be, who are you and what was your handle ?
THEN YOU'RE DONE.
I would have been scared too! You're doing ALL of us a favor by posting this.
To everyone else: Is it really necessary to talk so much shit? IMOH, a handful of people who talk down to other providers/gentlemen couldn't say half that crap to their face. I realize you feel open on here, but being a complete dick isn't the right way to convey a response. Be respectful and think before you talk...
Thanks,
Anya
Out of the mouths of youth...........thank you Anya
I respect your posting and I thank you, however there are some problems with it.
There are several reasons some people are calling BS.
We all know John was heavily promoting out of state/country girls, or “traveling girls”
We all know several guys from the “nice guys group” have been contacted and are in hot water.
We know some of the traveling girls John promoted have also flipped on their clients.
It was even in the news about a traveling gal working with LE and setting up a sting. Apparently only one made an attempt to warn people and this was sometime ago.
Torius, I believe you when you say you had recent contact. I also believe this was not the first contact you had with them. Is it possible you are a unwilling participant in a desperate last chance trick to get more people to put themselves at risk in the hopes someone is able to give them something that does not exist against either Nora or John? By now the prosecutor should be asking for more information in order to continue.
Torius, This provider they have photos of you was a traveling girl right? A traveling girl that John had at one time promoted right? And this photo is over a month old right? And you where first contacted by LE the same day as the photo right?
You don’t really think I would believe that you are so important to the case against MNG or MFP that you were followed for weeks just to get a photo of you seeing a provider? Then using this photo to buy you a cup of coffee while never asking about your hobbing? Only to accidentally allow you to see the whole investigating file including names and photos of 200 people?
They did meet with you as you said but it was not the first time. Your first incounter was the reason for your lack of sleep. And this last meeting was for the purpose of making the posting you wrote. Right?
I feel sorry for you, it seems you had strong reason to fear your future. I really do hope LE doesn’t hold peoples skepticism against you. You did the best you could.
LE, how’s that square peg working for ya?
-- Modified on 6/27/2009 1:02:29 PM
Also you say you have lost alot of sleep over the last few weeks but the photo they have of you was only 2 weeks old?
While in a "panic mode" and believing you were taking advantage of the girls anyways you were still seeing girls?
And now after having such a pleasent experiance looking over photos of yourself with LE suddingly you are able to sleep like a baby?
Your meeting dosen't scare me, its what was discussed that now gives you comfort to sleep well that scares me.
I just looked, you seem to see alot of the traveling ladies too.
-- Modified on 6/27/2009 1:24:10 PM
I agree with youdummy and my thinking and the way I process the information Torius provides is the same. Smells like FISH in here!
All the traveling ladies John425 shilled for seemed to be Columbian or Latina.
All the ladies rumored to be in cahoots with law enforcement because of John425's involvement are Columbian or Latina.
Why? How come he never bugged any blonde / caucasion traveling ladies?
Just curious.....
NO torius-
20 reviews with only 6 here in MN
ALL those whitelists with none from MN? That is alot of white lists for any hobbyist profile!
A year long investigation with a handle that has existed for a year-merely coincidence?
STFU-LE is not your friend!
All these providers opened up to you and told you their stories? doubtful!
99% of providers keep their private lives private during a session-hobbyists are not our friends or confidantes, my dear.
YOU aren't saving anyone my LE "friend".
Maybe because he was attracted to Latinas and these ladies offered a wider menu and more passion than others.
Maybe there are "in cahoots" with LE because their immigration status makes them vulnerable to LE exploitation. Maybe some of then have children in this country, making these Latinas especially vulnerable.
I don't think any of these ladies willingly betrayed anyone - their cooperation with LE was forced.
The only likely favors they received were non-prosection and non-deportation.
But I could be wrong.
Great info here. Don't know if I believe the original poster though....wierd.
because john was running girls for the mexican drug cartels. simple. the mexican cartels have drug, gun running, and prostitution rings in like, 200 american cities. and yep, Minneapolis/St. paul is one. (take this with a grain of salt, since I'm just guessing).
In response to the original posting: talking to cops is stupid. cooperating with cops is stupid. did you cooperate b/c you thought they'd be lenient if you went along with it? that is retarded. did you think you were in a fraking movie? the cops were nice to you because you were helping them, and if they score a big bust that makes the soon extinct newspapers, they'll get raises and promotions. you'll be in jail and/or fined, and humiliated with your family and coworkers.
dont listen to anything torius has to say, as anyone that dumb shouldn't be trusted in these matters.
Several things: (1) You do not have to speak with the Police. It is rarely a good idea when they are investigating a crime and you may be a suspect. (2) If they were to come to your home or any person's home who reads this post, be aware of the below information: The police can only get an identity of a user on this site, or any similar site, where they can establish probable cause before a judge that a crime has occured. This would be done by serving a subpoena upon the website operator. They cannot get a judge to sign a blanket subpoena requiring TER or any other similar site to simply hand over information regarding all of its members unless they can establish by probable cause that all of its members have engaged in criminal behavior relating to the crime they are investigating or being a member is a crime it and of itself, (3) It should be obvious, simply being a member of TER or another site, is no evidence whatsoever of criminal activity. Even visting an escort and having photos being taken of you driving to and from her/his place is not conclusive evidence of a crime. (4) If you actually saw over 200 license photos and considering that the recent case involving the 30 or 40 so-called, "nice guys", it would seem a tortious breach of the right of privacy (among other things) has occured somewhere along the line. If such a gross misappropriation of information were to occur and then it was further abused by unnecessary and harrassing contact by police, which caused you hardship and damage, I assure you, a bevy of attornies would be interested in your case. This of course, does not even touch on the draconian affects such police and prosecutorial misconduct has on first amendment rights of users to freely discuss issues without the government censoring such protected speech by abusing its police powers.
Has anyone else been visited by police invesigators simply because they are members of a certain website or club or group???
(5) In NV we would not be having this lame conversation. They have learned to regulate and tax such vice (Las Vegas will soon legalize too) making it safer for everyone and a money maker for the state. A win-win for both sides of the equation and including the state of NV. MN should think about that.
Begs the question, are there any freedom loving Americans left in Politics and government anymore?
I've concluded the post must be a troll, a fake, or some last ditch effort from the task force to encourage some one to come forward. Although it is possible for someone to be so naive, it is utterly amazing that they could miss all of the obvious issues with sort of approach.
Like so many have said: if they just want to talk to you, they are FISHING. If you talk to them, you just open the door for them to start HUNTING. Think of how much they'll be able to hold over you when they come to your work place with a warrant or your home on the 4th because you told them "Yeah, i was member, but I didn't do anything bad...."
You owe it to your country and yourself and community to know your rights and defend them.
You've just given them permission for a subpeona or even a search warrant. Now they'll hold that search warrant over your head to get to incriminate yourself - and what if you didn't do bad things? We'll now you cop a plea.... yep, you think its over with but guess what, you've just waived your right to remain silent (well you kind of screwed yourself in the beginning). Now that you are admitting to things you didn't really do, they are going to ask you to finger folks you don't even know. If all goes well, they'll call it a conspiracy.
This isn't the 1950s. Thankfully.
Just because you are member doesn't mean you are guilty.
Just because you visited a suspect, does mean you did anything illegal.
Just because someone created a website supporting free speech and personal e-mail doesn't mean they promoted a crime.
Just because someone wrote an e-mail doesn't mean they performed an act or meant what they said.
Use your head.
Just because you told them something does mean they can get paper: these papers are called warrants and subpoena's and you need look them up.
Remember this: thinking about "unlawful" things doesn't make you unlawful. Associating with unlawful things doesn't make you unlawful. Writing about talking about unlawful things doesn't make you guilty.
Proposing unlawful maybe unlawful but even that doesn't make you guilty.
Use the gift of the web to research:
The communications decency act.
The Mann act.
The MN statutes.
Federal and Local Statutes on Obscenity.
The SLAPP act.
The patriot act.
Should you think the worst will occur:
Have a lawyer lined up.
Have a bail bondsmen lined up and cash/cashier's check.
Understand how to communicate with lawyers and the dangers of pleading. understand the benefits and costs of going to trial and what the DAs have to do to bring forward a trial (it is a pain in the ass unless you make it easy).
Understand how our system hurts those who have a right to defend themselves while letting the really bad folks plead out term.
Understand the political and financial motivations of Task Forces.
Envision what might happen if someone did plea and finger you incorrectly... would they be trial worthy? trust worthy? why might they want to nail you?
Think before you act.
This advice applies at any point in your life to any relationship that might incriminate you regardless of your guilt, regardless of the justice in your actions.
all you say is that you wish to speak with an attorney, and you are going to remain silent. and then remain silent. you never, ever talk to cops. period.
also, how do we know this isnt some bullshit cop trick?
...after you have been charged.