GoodTimingMan: you sound more deluded than the original author of this thread. The idea that you will get 'anhialated' (sic) by your 'favs' for your statements & that you felt compelled to post a disclaimer...here's my disclaimer to you:
You are a John. And if you were even half as desirable as you think, you wouldn't need providers in the first place. You wouldn't even need a subscription to the Erotic Review. Do you understand now? --z
LG, I first sent my dilemma to the three musketeers (Mr. Fisher, Good Timing Man, and Dr. Joe) and they advised well but one of them said he would like me to post it with you.
I have asked your advice in the past with you returning great thoughts and good sound reasoning. So I would like to ask again. He also advised for me to use an alias so no parties are hurt.
I’ve been in the hobby world for about 6 months and though it’s been short as the calendar year, I’ve seen a lot of ladies in this time (probably around 25 as of last count). Some I’ve seen more than once and a couple many, many times.
My story though is my ATF. She is absolutely stunning in the looks department (a part time model), so sweet to be around with great personality and needless to say the best sex I’ve had in a long, long time. She is twice as good as any provider I’ve met so far. Part of the reason I think is due to technique but a lot is the other two features I just described. She has cut her rate so low it’s almost free because of her wanting me to see her. On the other hand what she is getting from me is a lot of attention (something she has little of in her civie life). I send her gifts (not real expensive ones), cards and candy on a pretty regular basis.
So with all this it would seem life is great! Well, it isn’t and here are some of the reasons. When we first met and I paid her the normal fee we would see each other 1 to 2 times per week. Since she cut her rate (her decision and not mine at all) then lately she will say she wants to see me on a certain day and then the morning comes and she cancels due to personal things (all are legit as she shows me receipts like doctor visit, stuff like that. I don’t ask for proof but she insists I see it). When she cancels which has been a lot of late it’s just like any other provider who cancels last minute. A huge let down and it affects my mood for when we do get together.
Of late we went almost 3 weeks due to canceling and things prior to last week getting together. Of course when we did get together the magic was there in every way after I had a sit down talk about the frequency of canceling. Prior to me leaving she always insists of setting up our next visit, which was suppose to be today. Just got a tex it ain’t going to happen. So let down city again!!
I would say she is playing me but honestly she doesn’t’. She never asks for money or any of the gifts I give her. It’s just tearing me up with this last minute cancels.
Can you give me any advice? Through all these months I’ve still seen other providers so I don’t make a mistake and fall hard for this gal but like I said, just can’t give her up.
Thanks so much and looking forward to anything you can tell me to try.
I've had 'special' relationships with multiple providers for whatever reason.... usually a great connection and phenomenal sex, and it leads to longer more frequent visits and less emphasis on fee.
In all cases, there was initial excitement of wanting to see each other followed by flakiness on the lady's part. If you are getting it for reduced rate or nearly free.... it no longer has financial value to her and can be expendible for just about anything that comes up.
You've got to remember multiple things... first and foremost, sex is a commidity she uses for personal gain.... whether it is money, creating desire, self esteem building, pleasure, whatever. To her, it is much less emotional value than you.... she has traded it often and with many whereas you are very in to her right now.
Also, there are providers who are in the business partly because they don't adapt well to a normal 9-5 work schedule with requirement to be reliable every day. They can be erratic and a little ADHD! And that plays in to erratic behavior in keeping commitments as well as a kind of roller coaster life. Whereas, especially if you are cheating on a wifee, your appointments are carefully planned and quite precious to you.
What can you try.... only expressing how it affects you and deciding what your limits are. You are not going to change her.
It is as simple as this..... as long as what you are getting from the relationship is worth the pain and discomfort.... you live with it, and when the pain and discomfort exceed the benefit... you bolt!
In the meantime.... if you thoroughly enjoy what you do get when it does happen..... take a close look.... provider style great sex with a model on a semi civvie basis.... even if erratic and frustrating, a lot of guys would die to be in your position!
Dear helpmeifyoucan,
Deep sigh and deep breath. I know you don't want to hear this, but...Here you are, banging 25 ladies, having a great time and finally finding your ATF. She gives you a great rate, but then, mysteriously, keeps canceling. Guess what: she is not in love with you, you are her client. In fact, I would go so far as to say that she's really tired of you, but because it still means A FOR SURE GIG [however little money it brings, in comparison to what she gets from other men], she still keeps you around for a rainy day or when business is slow.
From a provider's point of view, there can be something very annoying with clients who get into an "ATF state of mind." On one hand, the money comes in, there's hardly ever a cancellation on the part of the client, and the sessions predictably run like clockwork. But think about it - it's very, very tough to handle the adoration when there are no feelings to reciprocate. In fact, I'd say that it's almost more suffocating and freakish than for her to meet with someone who says very little, bangs, pays and leaves.
"I just can't give her up," you say. OK. Then just give up the idea that "it’s almost free because of her wanting me to see her." Instead, understand that you have become a gravy train that's good to keep around. You show up on command, you hang around, and clearly, you live in the fantasy that she has some extra special feelings for you. Methinks not.
It's prostitution, don't forget,
the Love Goddess
the adoration when there are no feelings to reciprocate. In fact, I'd say that it's almost more suffocating and freakish than for her to meet with someone who says very little, bangs, pays and leaves."
Is very insightful.
Thanks for the advice
I think LG has nailed it, but one comment you made, makes me wonder about another possibility. You said, "She has cut her rate so low it’s almost free because of her wanting me to see her." I would think that the closer it gets to being free, the closer it gets to being personal, for her. And, many professionals, in all fields, are much better in their professional lives than their personal lives. You really need to decide how personal you want it to get.
your comments are spot on - many are much better at the professional than the personal in terms of relationships. This may indeed be a factor in this case assuming that the gentleman did not ask or hint for the reduced rate. The lady may just feel much more adept at the professional relationships. I've known many a provider (without SO) who had trust issues and / or held personal relationships at arms length
Disclaimer before I get anhialated by one of my favs -
this does not apply to everyone
and
if I'm seeing you regularly please assume it does not apply to you
there - CYA '
-- Modified on 3/18/2009 12:46:03 PM
Dear GoodTimingMan,
While I agree with you in theory - practice and experience tells me that the majority of providers have no problems maintaining personal relationships - as long as these "personal" relationships are not with clients.
What is interesting in the psychology of prostitution, whether street or indoor, is the self-deception that the client as an individual must maintain in order to imagine that the prostitute truly enjoys the company of the client on every level. And while the self-deception is a necessity for maintaining some veneer of social customs and at least a vague mirror of culturally sanctioned male-female relations, meaning, the guy doesn't just barge in through the door, the prostitute doesn't just rip off her clothes within five minutes - there is some social exchange going on in the hopes of approximating "a GFE experience" - I can assure you that most providers are as proficient at personal relationships as they are in their professional relations. Take a look at my study of 100 TER providers from 2008; one-fourth reported living with a spouse, and over 40% reported living with children. Were we to judge from the rest of the demographic data, these were some stable women, quite capable of maintaining long-term, personally significant relationships of a non-commercial nature.
My point is that you don't even know if these providers are telling you the truth when you are with them. They may tell you that they are keeping personal relationships at arms length, while having a boyfriend or husband somewhere with whom they are deeply in love. They may tell you that they have trust issues, while placing deep trust in someone whose name never gets mentioned during these sessions. Because of the nature of prostitution, providers will tell clients what they think clients want to hear. This is a profession that involves some serious acting - and the best actresses are unquestionably the busiest and most successful in the biz.
I would say that within the universe of middle-class prostitution, there is a minority of providers with trust issues, lack of intimate relationships and other psychological problems. The vast majority however, is smart enough to take advantage of a situation where those providers who can control the session by whatever psychological devices and skills necessary will do it, and be the better for it.
Unless you marry or become the SO of a prostitute, you'll never be able to experience her personal emotions. Until then, it's all conjecture and based on what performance she will provide - even if it's someone as nutty as Blanche Dubois or the Lady of the Camelias.
Garbo or Leigh, take your pick,
the Love Goddess
been there, done that (more than once) got the T shirt..... and the odd scar or two. But I did use the generic word "many" and the qualifying term "in my experience".... anecdotal evidence if you will ' I have no reason at all to disagree, however, with your excellent study. I am the last one to argue the old "prostitutes are mentally unstable" cliche...
Cheers
GTM
-- Modified on 3/18/2009 3:02:10 PM
Personally I like to talk with the ladies I meet with for a few minutes to determine that they are not high, or under duress.
I can only speak for myself, but that's the reason I avoid providers who do not speak English.
Judging from the number of no show appointments I have had, providers SO probably deal with as much drama as the rest of us.
...From providers is that they often trust the guys who pay them for sex more than the guys who don't.
Honestly I think this says more about men than it does about women. When it comes to the hobby women are much better at compartmentalizing what they do than we men are. They have to be.
In regards to this particular case it seems to me that the lady offered a discount at the outset of the relationship because she felt a connection, decided later that she was not as interested as she thought in the gentleman, is not willing to upset him by raising her rate back up and is canceling her discount appointments whenever she has a chance to charge her standard rate.
GoodTimingMan: you sound more deluded than the original author of this thread. The idea that you will get 'anhialated' (sic) by your 'favs' for your statements & that you felt compelled to post a disclaimer...here's my disclaimer to you:
You are a John. And if you were even half as desirable as you think, you wouldn't need providers in the first place. You wouldn't even need a subscription to the Erotic Review. Do you understand now? --z
The reason I post the disclaimer is because I routinely get PMs and emails from provider friends and regulars about my posts. And if I annoy them I hear about it not only in an email but when we next get together as well. This happens to several other gents I know. If it does not happen to you, perhaps you have described yourself in your response to me.
Wow... you've just pretty much disrespected everyone in this community with that comment.
To me... it is just one of my new Hobbies... not a need. That's why they call it a hobby.
Interesting problem.
I don't quite understand why she discounted you in the 1st place or for that matter, how much the discount truly is.
I do agree that the adoration we place on our ATF's can certainly be a burden at times particularly if they are involved with someone else. Maybe she was ending or beginning a civilian relationship with someone else.
In any event, I also agree with the comment that if you are paying discounted rates, then you are certainly at risk for being pushed aside for a full paying customer.
I guess the next time I saw her I would simply NOT schedule a follow up appointment and then simply sit back and see what happens. If you can't get out of the door without scheduling an appointment, honestly I don't see why not, then YOU call and cancel the appointment. Give it a little time, see someone else as you are doing, see what she does, that should give you a pretty good indication of how she feels regarding your current arrangement.
Or you can simply settle for what she is willing to give you and be happy with that.
why would a rational person even need to struggle with this? Well, there are numerous reasons of course, and none of them have anything to do with being rational, which is why you really should heed the advice of LG and others who have responded.
You haven't been at this long enough to read the countless stories of others who have gone before you and fallen into the same trap you now find yourself. I could be glib and say we've all done stupid things dating a "9" or a "10," but there seems to be more to it than that in your case- and BTW, you're not dating, you're seeing a prostitute. You need to remember that.
Like many others, you probably have trouble keeping your emotions in check and have mistaken the veneer of intimacy you experience while seeing providers, with a real relationship and sincere, reciprocal feelings. Sex can play tricks on those who equate the physical act of sex with love. Guys keep denying they fall into that category, and then proceed to say and do everything that proves that they have. These same guys also tend to forget that the really good ladies, like the one you've fallen for, are experts at creating these feelings.
After all, those are the same feelings that remind us of the great relationships we've had because they mimic the same emotions and endorphin release, etc. of a real GF- and that's what keeps us coming back. But clearly, this lady is no longer interested in having you come back.
Since guys in your situation usually need the shock treatment to get back in touch with reality, let me put it to you this way: She needs you but she doesn't want you. Any questions?
-- Modified on 3/18/2009 11:25:00 PM
There was some question as why should would discount me the rate (That is what really has me so confused still??).
Actually what we do is meet halfway for both of us which is about a 45 min. commute for us both. So what I do is give her what she asked for $50.00 to cover her gas. That's it. She has also had me come to her home to save me the cost of the motel.
Thanks all for your insights and advice. I think between everyone I've gotten some very helpful info. On a private PM one of the nice people I mentioned in my post said to go back to full price so she will have no reason to cancle. In the long run I feel like that might be the best to do but I might only do that after taking a pretty good long break from seeing her at all.
...don't go back to full price. It will NEVER be the same. Stop seeing her...and move on.
BS
Am I reading this right? She drives 45 minutes each way, does the deed and you only pay her $50? No wonder she is fickle. You need to take control of the situation. Just pay her the full rate and enjoy yourself. If you are going to pay it should be to avoid the headache and know that you have a sure thing.
Boy, I am lost.
Do you pay her regular rate plus $50 for gas?
or do you
Pay her $50 if she drives or nothing if she you meet at her house?
Seems to me the last scenario makes you fuck buddies and you are having sex with her for free at HER convenience. That is a great deal. It may not happen as often as you like but no different from a civilian NSA relationship. And just like a civie NSA arrangement, it is gonna happen on her terms. Not sure paying her is going to change that dynamic.
Now on the other hand if she is only sharing gas money with you, that is not a discount.
Bottom line is you have fuckbuddy with NSA who is unlikely to be any other type of relationship with you. Guess I would just ride this one till the wave peters our or you get on a bigger wave. LOL
If you are only donating .$, it's practically free. Just ride it, dude, live with the cancellations, and enjoy your time with her when you can. If you need to meet with her more often, go back to full rate. OTOH, you may have moved past the point where this can be salvaged.