Well, LG will go much further in depth, and do a much better job at this than myself. But, the argument for negotiating rates, that I hear from the guys is basically; well it's a business, and in most businesses you negotiate prices for supplies and products, and even fee for service. I think that's pretty lame, because it does not take the personal vulnerability aspect in consideration. Also, to me, asking a lady to reduce her rate, even in a strictly business paradigm, would be like telling an employee that you're going to reduce her/his salary, while at the same time expecting her/him to do the same quantity and quality of work. To me if a lady says her rate is $___, and is non-negotiable, then it's an insult to ask her to reduce it.

Marriage councellors and divorce lawyers alike agree (Or so I've read.) that money problems are what drive couples apart even more than infidelity or snoring.

From the time we are old enough to hold a coin till our last Social Security check, money is what is held up as our ultimate esteem.

Money is the ultimate arbitor of success.  It makes the ugly beautiful, the talentless artistic and the stupid smart.

Why should we in the hobby world be any different?

since i provide professinal consulting services it is less of a headache.

sometimes a client asks for a discount as a way of negotiating a better deal. another way is to press for services that aren't required under the contract.

thing is that there _is_ a contract. so that limits the problem and the headache. in your work there isn't one so it is just much more difficult to deal with. at least i can just refer a problem client to our contracts/legal folks! there is no such intermediary here. making the deal is very personal.

Interesting way of putting it, houstonsmartgal,

With "we," I assume you mean both providers and hobbyists? Let's say that you do, in which case I don't think there's any mystery involved, at least not on the part of the provider. Not to be sarcastic, but....when you sell the right to access your body in a way that is

a) secretive
b) stigmatized
c) emotionally demanding

you'd better be touchy about someone trying to negotiate your rates! I'm sorry, but this is NOT the same as providing the services of a plumber, carpenter or even attorney or physician. You are providing THE PRIVILEGE OF USING YOUR BODY in a way that most people would only consider if they were in a mutually desirous relationship. Hence, this special circumstance means that you, the provider, needs to control the entire procedure, from start to finish, or else you'll end up feeling used and abused - simple as that.

Now, the procedure begins with the price tag - a set fee for a set of contracted events. If your reviews state BBBJ, kissing, anal, AND a qualitative measure of affection, enthusiasm and being exquisitely attuned to the sexual needs of this complete stranger, then bargaining and negotiating the price completely violates the trust that you put in this person not to deviate from the program and possibly harm or hurt you, whether psychologically or physically.

Negotiating is experienced by the provider as a VIOLATION OF THE INITIAL TERMS and thus a potential violation of her body. And no one in this business wants to be violated or taken advantage of in any way. The provider wants to feel calm and in control, knowing that things will proceed according to the sexual scripting that is offered to the client. Paradoxically, that's why street prostitutes have so many more rules about not kissing, not touching here or there - their fee is low, so access is low. When the fee goes up, access goes up. Imagine the difference between going on a 5-day jaunt with a hobbyist who has access almost 24/7 during that time, compared with a street worker who sells services á la carte. All she does is negotiate - touch here, it's going to cost you this much more, etc. Even gals on Craigslist may engage in the same pattern. But a well-reviewed provider who is a professional at providing "bounded authenticity" [Elizabeth Bernstein's term, not mine,] will feel instant distrust at negotiations and hence a reluctance to go further.

I think it's a sign of health that you feel this way. You value your self, your body, your ego and your boundaries far too much to let anything interfere with your professional objectives. Let your "sensitivity" be your best guide - if he starts bargaining and negotiating, close shop. You may make less money that day, but you'll feel better in the long run.

It's a fucking business, like I always say,
The Love Goddess

Since the recession hit, we've become a culture of bargainers.  News stories tell us that major retailers like Best Buy will sell below their listed price if you ask for it; clothing is on sale in high-end stores for 70 percent off; service providers, like doctors and lawyers, will discount rates if asked. Every day on the front page, there's a story about more people getting laid off.  And if you peruse the boards here, you'll see plenty of hobbyists commenting about discounts, and plenty of providers offering discounts.  It's the prevailing culture; it's nothing personal.

On the flip side, you're a professional service provider. You sell a service, just like a lawyer, a doctor or an accountant.  You compete with other service providers.  You have to be prepared to respond to this cultural phenomenon and to deal with the competition.  A simple, "No, I don't negotiate," is enough, if you don't want to bend your rates.  It's money, it's not your soul.

I'm not touchy at all about rates. I pay what the gal's posted rate is. Period.  If a lady charges too much I simply don't see her. I also do not feel the need to TELL her that I feel she charges too much. I think the issue has more to do with the insulting practice that some guys have of publicly posting that a lady is not worth what she is charging. IMHO these guys are idiots and not really worth worrying about.

I hate to pay retail...A bargain is a turn on
(yes I am Jewish)

In addition...A contractor gets paid as the job goes along.  Maybe 1/3 up front, 1/3 half-way through and the final 1/3 upon completion.

Providers get paid in advance....and keep the money even if they don't deliver the services that are advertised.

Even if we don't bargain over cost, we often bargain or haggle over services...As many providers don't like to talk about acts on the phone, whats wrong with ascertaining upon arrival what is on the menu...It is often not what was implied in ads or desired by the consumer..

If a provider charges extra for a trip to Greece, maybe we should pay less if there is no DFK or DATY.

My biggest complaint is paying for an hour and being shown the door in 30 minutes.  Even if multiple pops are not on the menu, if I pay for an hour I want an hour of something.  It is especially galling when after paying for the hour and being shown the door in 30 minutes, you find a 1/2 hour rate was available.  How many providers have given back the difference?

30 Minutes feels so rushed...Hell just getting dressed and undressed can eat uphalf the time.

I think LG has done a wonderful job of articulating the issue from a female/provider POV, but let me offer what might explain some of the male difference of opinion on this subject.

Over the years I've answered this question so many times I've lost count- and my answers have varied a great deal on the subject too, because I think there are a lot of dimensions to this issue.  But while I wouldn't try to negotiate with a provider myself, maybe I can offer a very short explanation as to why some men do.

Most men spend their entire lives trying to attract, date, fuck, or marry etc. women that are out of their league- it's the male national pastime. Whether it's cultural conditioning or genetic predisposition, every "5" or "6" with a penis thinks he has the right to have sex with a "9" or "10" female.  It's part of our male reproductive programming to find the best home for our genetic material, just as it's part of the female programming to reject unsuitable suitors for the same reason.

The nature of human sexual attraction has us all seeking the attentions of the same top 10% of the female population, even if we're nowhere near attractive enough ourselves to have any hopes of having our interest reciprocated.  But we always aim high, even if we end up settling for something less- our grasp exceeds our reach.

In the context of providers, we still aspire for that top 10%, but now there's an actual price associated with it and it's not just a matter of our skill or luck in bedding a woman, but our financial means.  Old habits die hard, however, so some guys- in this case, those whose dicks exceed their finances, still seek to aim high, even if they can only hope to achieve success by negotiating for a lower price.

You can say they should just move on to a woman whose price they can afford, but it doesn't work this way in our social lives, so it's not surprising that it doesn't work that way in this activity either.  Every male thinks he deserves a "10," even if he has no rational reason to feel that way.  it's as simple as that.

-- Modified on 4/15/2009 9:49:20 PM

As we all know, this topic is a perennial contender for 'Most Often Posted' on the various Boards.  Additionally, it seems that with the worsening economy, it is even more prevalent.

Even so, every time some alias posts a rant about how prices should be coming down or some guy complains about a particular provider's rates in response to her ad post, I still can't quite figure out what the compulsion is.  I am not a 'bargainer' in the rest of my life, so the idea of negotiating rates is alien to me.

My non-professional opinion on this is centered on a couple possibilities:

1.  Control.  There is a certain measure of control or power being exerted when people try to negotiate price for goods/services.  Some people seem to get a rush out of seeing their level of control increased at the expense of the other party.  It would be interesting to see if there is any correlation between 'Bargainers' and their preferred style of intimacy (ie. Dom/Sub tendencies).

2.  Self-Esteem.  We all seem to forget it, but money in and of itself, is basically worthless - a piece of cloth-like paper with an ugly monotone design.  Its value is in what it represents, a promise for future consideration for goods or services provided now.  In the case of providers, those services are very personal and intimate.  As G2 so eloquently stated in his post, males are hardwired to attempt to reach as high up the procreation/partnering ladder as possible.  If a guy is able to negotiate a better price, he has essentially managed to expend few resources to receive a better position.  Or he may even feel that he achieved a higher position than he would normally be expected to reach.  Thus, there is an increase in his self-esteem/self-worth evaluation.

Also, there is the related phenomenon of people that seem to try to increase their own self-esteem by lowering that of the people around them.  This is magnified in this particular situation since as the client's self-esteem is increased by successfully negotiating a lower price, the provider's self-esteem could be directly lowered by 'selling herself for less.'

I'm not saying that any or all of these elements are present in every negotiation.  But they can be.  Some clients don't care what they pay, as long as it seems worth it to them.  Some providers don't seem to care about a little haggling.  Maybe they don't equate money to self-worth in any way.  Maybe they like the 'give and take' game inherent in negotiating.  It's all very individual.

If it bothers you, don't do it and don't tolerate it.

If it bothers you that it bothers you, then examine your internal reactions and try to understand the root causes.  Good responses here, especially from the LG.

the elephant in the room:

Lots of ladies do comply with lowering rates.


It's sad, but true.  Yes, it's their call, but it sets a very bad precedent on others.  Like others on this thread, I've never asked to lower rates, but I hear this happening all the time.  In addition, you combine in the very low-end rates on many on CL - this gives the wrong idea to many guys.

I think you posted a similar question on another board on this site.  As a total newbie, I find it absolutely amazing the quality of women that are available for what I consider a few $.  I have more $ than courage though which is why I am still a newbie.  My biggest isssue is not wanting to hobby in my home town and I almost never travel, but I hope to change that in a couple months!

I pay what the ladies say.  If I disagree, I won't waste both of our time trying to negotiate down.  Nothing good can come from that!

That being said, the economy is down, and many feel the pinch.  It comes as no surprise that many guys feel that you ladies are also...and that the no negotiation rule on rates is now negotiatable.  You may not be willing to bargain...but other ladies may, and probably are.  So don't be surprised by it!

Personally, I still have my job, my income is still high, so no reason for me to play cheap.  Rules of the road are the same...

I don't frequent this site much anymore but this topic seems to come up often.

My own opinion is I don't really bother much negotiating, if I'm interested in paid service and a woman is advertising a rate higher than I care to pay, I don't consider seeing her.  Trying to negotiate many times deteriorates into the woman getting immediately touchy and often irate.  Even if I am not looking for the full range of services, she doesn't know who I am from adam and perceives that her time on the clock is worth a certain amount, and anyone asking to see her for less than that (under any condition) is somehow insulting her as a person.

There is, on occasion, I will notice someone I would like to see who is or may be beyond my means, and I feel she may enjoy my company beyond just for the money, and it's worth it for me to try to see her.  In that case, I don't negotiate.  I simply state that I'm interested to see her but because of my circumstances I can only afford a certain amount.  I leave it at that, letting her know if she's not interested it's OK, that I understand.  Normally I only even state this after some exchange, so she can clearly see I'm normal and easy to get along with.  The worst she can say is no, or that she's not interested, but much of the time I do get a positive response and we both end up having a good time.

The point is that the only times I've really done this is when I feel a strong desire to see a woman where the only boundary appears to be her stated rates.  These days I don't go for women who state their rates up front anyway, so I'm not sure how much this applies, but the most important thing is that I garner her interest in other ways, so she can be interested in me as a person, and when I make mention of my pay limits I need to ensure she knows I respect her as a person and am only letting her know that I would love to see her but otherwise can't afford what she's asking.  I don't demand she lower her desired rate for me, I merely let her know that I can't see her otherwise but would love to see her at a rate I could afford.  So long as she felt some sincerity from me, it usually turns out fine.

Just don't "negotiate".

WOW--look at the amount of responses in this thread---

I am a contractor. I have a small number of people ask for a discount, lowest price, sharpen your pencil--when I give a price it is the price---I KNOW WHAT I AM WORTH and when one of our ladies sets her price-that is what she thinks she is worth. Asking her for a discount is the fastest way to get lousy service no matter what price you pay. I pay what she wants and if she ends up being worth it--then I give her more--I think you call it a tip. I am always welcome back where I want to come back to.

some people like to negotiate others do not

In many cultures negotiation is normal business. Some people like the give and take. Apparently most providers do not enjoy this aspect of the business any more than I enjoy going around with a salesman for a big ticket item.

I think it is fair enough for the providers to both state their rate and rates are non-negotiable. Hobbyist should respect the statement. If you want to haggle see someone who does not ask you not to haggle.

There is usually enough supply and demand in each market for providers to attract the appropriate clients and for the clients to locate a suitably price provider. For those of you from other cultures, adapt to where you are renting time...most of our ladies do not haggle.

In the end people are going to do what they are going to do on both sides of the discussion.