MongrMan: I'm not sure this is really about dancing, I wonder if you're being played. I read your post three times, and the alarm bell went off each time. Your first paragraph of 'background info' is really the most important, let's do the math:
1) You see this provider 1-2 times per week; you pay for 2-3 hour sessions & she spends most of the day with you (5-8 hours).
2. For an average provider at $300 per hour, you're spending between $600-$900 a session, sometimes twice a week, that's $1200-$1800 a week.
3. She is now suggesting a two day session at a 12 hour rate, so that would be several thousand dollars, given average rates.
Note the progression here. Of course she feels a 'bond' with you, since you have assumed the role of ATM machine. I may incur the wrath of every provider on this board, but here is my advice:
I'm sorry, MongrMan, but you have fallen in love (yes you have) with a vampire that's going to drain you dry. Break free of her now. Try this: spend the next 2 weeks just getting your head together and don't see anyone, and put that money you saved in the bank.
Forgive me, brother for that cold slap, but if I'm ever in your position, I hope you will do the same for me. Take care, --z
I have a "relationship" of sorts with a provider. Everything started normally, of course, as far as P4P. She's been claiming an attraction or 'bond' since our second date. I didn't believe it, and am really not sure what I believe even now as I am very much a cynic.
Now we talk daily (sometimes for hours) and see each other about once, sometimes twice, per week. I'll offer the two or three hour donation for the time I would like and can afford. She started staying longer and even suggesting we go out to eat afterward. At this point we are usually together for 5-8 hours each visit. She told me she would like to spend two days together, and will only ask for the 12 hour normal donation.
This is background information just in case it may have something to do with the answer to my actual question.
She recently told me she is considering being a dancer at a strip club. She likes going there, as she also loves ladies, and thinks it would be a "fun" way to make extra money. No one other than me knows this (because she says she wanted my opinion) and she is extremely adamant about keeping it from her "other" life as a provider.
Now here's what I just don't understand.
She has asked me, more than once, the same question. She makes me SWEAR that I will tell her the truth. She wants to know if it would bother me if she takes this new job. My answer is always that it would not bother me in the least.
Now I didn't really pay it much heed the first time she asked, but after the third or fouth time I really can't figure it out. I ask her, and she shuts down and just says that everything is fine then.
How could she think that job (in a club where there is no touching allowed) would bother me?
It's not my place to judge anyway, but if anything "bothered" me...it would be the provider job. Right?
I know that I must not be "getting" something here. Can someone with more experience than I offer any insight?
Well, MongrMan,
It depends on how much and how well you wish to play along. From a psychological point of view, may she DOES want you to say that it bothers you. It would certainly make her feel even more wanted, no? Otherwise it may seem that you don't really care, and that could hurt her feelings just a little. The fact that she spends time with you for a reduced donation could mean that she views you as a "special client" or even a "special guy," who knows.
It's also interesting that she brings up the money aspect, i.e. doing it for "extra money." She may be conflicted about her feelings for you and in some way wish to put emotional boundaries between herself and you. When she brings up the strip club and you say that it won't bother you, maybe deep down inside she wants you to say, "yes, it does bother me and how can I TAKE CARE OF YOU so that you won't have to go stripping?" Thus, when you negate the invitation to take care of her beyond just the regular agreement, she can fall back on her own "see I told you so" emotions and tell herself, "he doesn't care about me, I knew it" and then feel emotionally hurt...even while all involved are in agreement that she is an escort, she has sex with other men for a living, etc.
The thing is, many men fail to understand that to providers, escorting is just a job. It's that old saying that "having sex with a client is totally different from having sex with a lover." Yes, the motions may be the same, but the emotional investment is completely different. To her, it seems normal that you are not bothered by her providing...after all, it's just a job. But the dancing introduces a completely new variable and a new vulnerability for her. She is going to have to create yet another persona as a stripper, meaning on some level, she will be "cheating on you," since she has feelings for you that go beyond just the job she is currently in. Also, there may be feelings of shame or self-esteem involved. To some providers, particularly those who charge high fees, a stripper definitely falls lower on the sex-working totempole. Someone who is used to go to a fine hotel-room and engage with upper echelon executives may now be reduced to doing lapdances in front of less-than-optimal men who, paradoxically speaking, would never show the same respect for a stripper as they would for a sophisticated courtesan. I know this seems a little convoluted and perhaps even difficult to absorb - believe me, it's just as difficult to explain in a limited space such as this board.
My advice to you is to take this up with her, fair and square. If you truly want to "get IT," then you must "get HER." And that, my friend, is the only way to find out her deeper feelings on the matter.
Good luck,
the Love Goddess
LG, you really hit this one on the head. That is all I can say.
Some escorts have a very low opinion of dancers. They think it's all a big tease. Some dancers have a low opinion of escorts because they have sex for money. Some dancers escort, some escorts dance. I see a lady who makes a good living at both and another one who has done both as well as web camming and dungeon work...
It's all the sex business to one degree or another but how women feel about different jobs with in that industry can often be complicated and for reasons that customers won't always fully comprehend. The only way to know where she is coming from on this is to hear it from her.
Actually I think LG has a point. I think she is looking for a reaction from you.
Since I engage in both going to clubs and hobbying I respect the lady I am with. Its the sex trade. What ever the reason some girls don't look at it the same way. I do..its just a job.....
Just to make it short and sweet, cause LG and Bostonguy fleshed it out much clear and discretely. But, if something keeps coming up, it's either a "racket," something that is just meant to distract from the real issue. Or, it's really, really important. And, in this case, you are not giving her the answer she is looking for. And, "your mission, if you choose to accept it" is find out which is it. "Good, luck! This tape will self destruct in 5 seconds (I'm going by memory regarding "Mission Impossible).
Yep! On the surface of it all that's what it seems like.
Wow…I was a bit hesitant to post this but your post reads very much like something I encountered myself.
The provider also turned things very strong on the second session. MO is strikingly similar with escalation of session length without additional donation and lots of time off the clock. Lunches, dinner and general quality time off the clock.
Many hours on the phone talking and sharing feelings, thoughts, ideas, likes and dislikes in unsaid dance to find compatibility. I met this provider on another well known social hobby site and only uses that site, that I know of. I here she is mostly UTR these days.
I was also very suspect of the situation and tried to maintain my distance but ultimately she broke down my walls and so far the only provider to do so. I found the situation about branching into dancing as would I come to the rescue and play sugar daddy so she would not have to work so hard. A test of how far would I go and how much control she held. As a test for her I upped the ante and she folded. I would be very cautious.
MongrMan: I'm not sure this is really about dancing, I wonder if you're being played. I read your post three times, and the alarm bell went off each time. Your first paragraph of 'background info' is really the most important, let's do the math:
1) You see this provider 1-2 times per week; you pay for 2-3 hour sessions & she spends most of the day with you (5-8 hours).
2. For an average provider at $300 per hour, you're spending between $600-$900 a session, sometimes twice a week, that's $1200-$1800 a week.
3. She is now suggesting a two day session at a 12 hour rate, so that would be several thousand dollars, given average rates.
Note the progression here. Of course she feels a 'bond' with you, since you have assumed the role of ATM machine. I may incur the wrath of every provider on this board, but here is my advice:
I'm sorry, MongrMan, but you have fallen in love (yes you have) with a vampire that's going to drain you dry. Break free of her now. Try this: spend the next 2 weeks just getting your head together and don't see anyone, and put that money you saved in the bank.
Forgive me, brother for that cold slap, but if I'm ever in your position, I hope you will do the same for me. Take care, --z
from me. More likely sincere thanks.
I suppose I was always worried about that....but it takes a cold slap sometimes for it to sink in.
I allowed her to make a big deal about the extra time, and what a sign it was of her "true feelings". I must admit that many times I was thinking that she's already made 'good' money for the day, then she's spending time that she wouldn't be working anyway, with someone who is not horrible to hang around...and buys her dinner. Kind of an easy way to set the hook deeper into the fish.
I think the 2 week idea is pure genius. I can't even imagine how difficult it will be...but it needs to be done. We'll see how she, and I, look at things after that.
On a side note...
While I don't think highly of men who are cynical, rude, and disrespectful to women (in either 'life') I can certainly understand how they get that way.
I suppose that fighting that is the constant struggle within, again, in either 'life'.
(and yes...I know it can be the same for women).
Sometimes the best advice may be that which we do not want to hear. Thanks for that.
I didn't have to read your post but once and when I got half-way through I saw dollar signs in her eyes and that she was on a mission.
If she really liked you the donation would have been the first thing to go but she conveniently kept the donation apart of the equation. If she converted the donation to say "help me out by paying my car note ONCE a month" and u 2 still spend alot of time together then maybe she might have feelings for you.
When a women really likes you she just wants to be with you, donation or not.
although under normal circumstances, this would be true. She is in a business and to really expect her to by pass the $$ involvement, well you are trying to date the wrong gal. You met her through this business and me personally, I won't date anyone I meet here thats just Not good business practice.
I like a great deal of my clients and would never mislead anyone like that but in that same sense its too much to expect there to be more in it. In the end, this is a business. That is why we have met.
Zangari,
Excellent advice and I did the exact same thing myself. I took a break from her and she went off to deal with some family issues. When she returned while I was off in another state on the beach taking my break and thinking things over, my phone exploded with her calls and v-mails. It was kind of funny because in some of the v-mails she sounded like a pissed off GF checking to make sure I received the previously left v-mails and where was I. Upon my return I took a couple of days before calling and when I did I gave her my offer knowing she would not accept. And she didn’t. She gave me BS about how she was not treating any other customer like this and agreed that the prime directive had been broken. In the end she said she wanted to keep in touch because I was special to her but I never heard from her again. I was prepared for that and understood that my actions would lead to the end. Looking back my thought is she figured how I could remove myself from the line up after all the digging she did into my soul and planting her roots. And by doing just that, calling it off on my own, she was surprised and pissed. Thru back channeling I found out that this is her MO, I hear she is currently running this on others to varying degrees.
I cannot thank enough my old therapist for the work we did that equipped me with the tools to indentify, analyze, ask and pull myself out before I caused major damage to myself.
MongrMan, you are being played and if it’s not the same lady that I came across then they both are using the same MO. I think realistically it’s a different lady just they both have done this before and will continue until they find enough “special” guys to make life comfortable. We are like draft picks and they are constantly seeking to fill the lineup because eventually we either smarten up and call them on it or we fall hard and complicate our lives to a point that is self destructive. So we fall out of the lineup. All roads lead to the end.
I will assume you are fairly successful in your career, if not then you would not be able to maintain this level of play. And you are single and work was or is your current passion. Leaving little time for dating so you calculate the time spent P4P and off the clock as a bargain. I did.
In some ways I cannot blame them because they are truly awesome actresses and when I was with my provider, the experience was unlike anything I had before. But there is something to be said about the method employed to furnish the fantasy. Had she not taken the road she had via manipulation and just made a straight offer of P4P exclusivity for a monthly stipend, I would still be there. I urge you to hear my words and Zangari’s. I can almost hear the counter argument. And can pick apart Zangari’s logical post if it were me trying to convince myself that this situation with her is different and I am truly special to her.
For example: In 2, Zangari breaks down the cost but I bet you are not paying the market rate and get a discount because you are different, special and all those other things. I bet it falls between 200-250 which takes down the cost to 400-500 for the whole day. If not even less as you’re a repeat weekly. So you represent a monthly income of at minimum 1600.00, depending on her life style, family obligations and location of residence, you are rent. Mine had a child and a sick mom so being able to cover rent was a huge relief. She employed this by telling me how much I was helping her and her family by being their not just as a customer but as a friend, lover and provider. Now the 12 hr deal (Point3) comes down significantly in this pricing structure and if you add this to monthly minimum you provide, it’s bonus time for her.
MongrMan, I know your pain, thoughts and dilemma. No pain or dilemma? Then why the post. I also will incur the wrath of the ladies here but Zangari is dead on. I represented a dollar figure, nothing more nothing less. Take it from one ex-ATM in recovery. I hope the ladies understand that some of the flock do this and are parasitic. The men have their bad apples as well. Please take time for some introspection and situation analysis. And what do you want out of this, a real relationship, sugar daddy status? What would become of the relationship if it goes completely off the clock? I also caution you in seeking a resolution with her. I made the mistake of sharing personal information as she had (supposedly) and I am to this day concerned that she may come back asking for a loan or something related with the possibility of outing me if I turn her down. We did end it very civil but you never know.
Good luck Mongrman, may you find the truth and happiness in the end.