The accepted wisdom here is that there are perhaps as many as 10 times the number of wannabe SBs as there are SDs. Some, like Herb, have actually done research on this matter. In other words, we have the upper hand when it comes to the supply/demand equation. And yet, my seat of the pants perception is that the women get many more offers than we do and have many more choices. And they can be more selective.
This was borne out by a recent encounter. I had coffee, and several days later a first BCD, with a lovely 19yo blonde college girl. In her dorm room on campus! I'd been exchanging messages with her for 3 months, letting her take her time, and make her decisions. Turns out, she's been deluged with messages, but I was her first actual BCD encounter from SA!
One of the topics of conversation was our experiences online with SA. She showed me her profile and pointed out that she had 213 unread messages waiting, from just the last 2 weeks. (Remember, this is Siberia). I've seen other SB profiles who live in major urban areas like LA that claim they receive 200 messages every day! I'm inclined to believe them. In the past 2 weeks I've received 20 messages total. That includes replies from ones I DMd first, as well as unsolicited first messages. That would indicate there's a 10 to 1 ratio in favor of the women's choices, as compared to the men's.
Now I'll be the first to point out I'm only talking about quantity, not quality. Many of the 213 messages my new SB received are of the let-me-fly-you-out-for-a-fun-weekend type, which she automatically ignores, as well as other equally unworthy offers. I get plenty of ridiculous messages too, from locations in foreign countries, obvious scammers, distant states, etc. But if, just for the sake of argument, the ratio of worthy contacts to unworthy is roughly equivalent for the guys and the gals, then the gals are still receiving 10 times as many good options as we are. Which gives them the competitive advantage when negotiating and choosing a playmate. Do my thoughts and experiences mirror yours, or am I way off base?
But I have not been using my "research" SB profile much in the last 6 months. So "her" message count is low as "she's" been inactive. When I have spot checked her messages, 75% are from the same SD's in her area... which prompts a different question about why a SD would keep messaging the same POT SB every 3-6 weeks when receiving no reply. But I digress...
I do know from my current SB's that they do get a lot of "to good to be true" messages, especially in the 1st day, week, month they go live.
Methinks it's time to do another demographic analysis of SB's by distance, age group, and ethnicity again...?
Empirical observations can only provide limited insights into the sugar bowl.
Life is good
The Cat
I have just rejoined the discussion, so forgive if I say something that has already been said...
I have believed for quite some time that the numbers, post-pandemic took a shift to the worse for SD advantage -- in other words, for a variety of reasons, there really isn't a 6-or-8-or-10 to one ratio of women to men.
Like Sweetman, I live in pussy Siberia, and I would guess that 10-15% of my last search (1309 profiles within 80 miles and between 20 and 43) are really motivated to try to put together an arrangement that involves regular intimacy at a non-GPS price and who will be motivated to grow the relationship. That last bit is important, because I do believe that there are a significant percentage of women who are OK with BCD activities, but will not put the effort in to make repeating and growing the relationship worthwhile. In other words, they are not SBs -- they are escorts, semi-pros and random chicks with a current pressing financial problem. Add these women to the scammers, flakes, GPS chicks, lurkers and bots, and it will be WAY more than half the profiles in a normal search -- and I would take an EWAG that it's 2/3 of all profiles.
Then, there is the problem that Sweetman points out. I cannot tell you the number of times I hear that women are "overwhelmed" with the number of messages they receive. So a certain percentage of the new ones get run off in the two days after they sign on. Even very together women lose track of sincere, experienced SDs in the noise of the site. this may not be a big deal in large markets, but Sweetman's comment about a 3 month conversation really hit home with me. I would guess I get a couple of messages a day from women that I have not corresponded with for more than a week. There's so much noise on seeking that it is impossible for women to sort the "good guys" and keep track of good conversations.
And finally, there are enough guys overpaying out there, that most women who have been SBs before have had offers, dates and even arrangements at ludicrous numbers. I had coffee with a 35-year-old mother of two last month, who was 35-40 pounds overweight, and a little edgy. I wasn't interested, but I didn't tell her that, and she led the allowance conversation. It was clear that she expected about $500 a date and gifts and dinner out. I should disclose that my last three arrangements have been 200 at her place with a25-year-old single mom that can suck a golf ball through a garden hose (35 dates); 250 at her place with a DDG 22-year-old with an equally beautiful perfect curvy body (21 dates); and 200 at a hotel with a model material woman that is top five all time (tomorrow is our 22nd date). My point is that I texted last week with the 35-year-old-wanting-500 woman and she has found a guy, 48-years-old giving her 400 to have dinner with him. No sex...not interested. She says he's very interesting...I bet he is -- she's getting wined and dined and paid a couple hundred an hour for eating. My point is, that there is a definite skew towards crazy money, and that makes the portion of the market that good experienced SDs are actually interested in, skeptical about talking to us. The guys that overpay have created a communication barrier with a number of women by creating the perception that SDs looking for long-term, stable growing friendships are actually cheapskate lowballers.
So, I agree with Sweetman, and add a couple of other categories. I think one of the reasons it's harder to find good SBs, and that there is so much "work" involved in the chase is that the number of "rational SBs" no longer significantly exceeds the number of "sincere SDs".
Lots of good insights here! I especially like your characterization of us as "SDs looking for a long-term, stable growing friendship". That certainly describes me and my desires perfectly. I'm going to incorporate that idea in future conversations. Perhaps emphasizing that a good long term arrangement will be financially and emotionally beneficial to them over time, in the sort of arrangement we favor.
On SA (Seeking) the incentive is for guys to broadcast to every potential candidate. If you purchase a limited subscription you have a month or a few months to score. It doesn't make sense to do it sequentially. Your best bet is to blast out to as many as you can and then try to manage any responses and scheduling. So a chick is going to get a lot of feelers. But many of those would never end up amounting to anything because there's no way a guy can handle more than a few positive responses at a time.
.
On SB (Secret Benefits) for example, the situation is a bit reversed. Each contact initiation costs the guy some credits. So his strategy is going to be a lot more selective. I bet (no real evidence) the chicks there get a lot fewer feelers. But the ones they get are a lot more likely to get followed up by the guy.
Good points Lester. I'll add that in my experience the SBs on Seeking have no idea that we men have to pay significant monthly membership fees to be able to contact them. So they have no idea of the time/money constraints we are under. Therefore, for all the variety of reasons, many of them take their sweet time about replying, assuming that we will be there to write back whenever they get around to responding. If I ran the zoo I would make sure every SB who posts a profile is made aware of how much the men spend to be on the site!
That a bit creepy and takes big balls! Lol
I wondered if anyone would pick up on that! Thanks for noticing! Yeah, there's a story there, I'll tell one of these days! I made plans with her for our second bcd date, in a different venue, more than a week from now due to our busy lives. I'll wait till after that to put a better cap on the story!
Sweetman's numbers are in line with some of the things I hear.
For context, I think the to 10-20 percent of SBs are deluged with messages and a large number are scams or weak offers. At the same time a lot of these chicks are looking for a "whale" who will drop $1000 without thinking and pay their tuition and rent. I had one ask for $500 upfront and $800 BCD and she's still there months later.
It is a jungle out there for both sides. But I've snagged a few good ones.
Bottom line, I think there are good SBs to be had. But sometimes you need to be persistent and message a gal 3 or 4 times to get her to notice you and see that you're real. And I think you need good, honest messages assuring them you're a standup guy. You may only succeed one out of 20 times but that's still OK.
I totally agree with 'Mouche on these points. Being a standup guy has elevated me in the minds of many SBs over the constant barrage of jerks they encounter. And has led to many wonderful encounters. As for persistence, that's important too. Maybe I take this to the extreme, but my most notable example was one very stunning young SB who I DM'd for 2 solid years before she agreed to meet me for coffee! This led to one of the most delightful satisfying long term arrangements I've ever had. I suppose there's a fine line between getting points for persistence and becoming a pest. But persistence does pay off. Playing the long game is what it's all about.
-- Modified on 2/28/2023 10:56:25 AM
Going back to the Sweetman's original thought -- that the numbers may no longer be so lopsided in our favor...
The lament on days of yore is that the long-game was a luxury even three years ago -- not to blame this all on the pandemic as FOSTA/SESTA changed the sugar world also. But even three years ago, the "long-game" was not necessary. A good month on SA yielded multiple BCDs, and selectivity produced long term good results -- fairly quickly.
But times have changed for all the reasons stated above. In my market, it is obvious that the calmer, more sensible guys are still successful in the sugar bowl, and that the patience, persistence and politeness help them in their endeavors. There is a local sugar blog that used to have 30-40 guys that weighed in -- now there are probably 6-8 and those are very intermittent. But the few that are left are all guys that you think you might want to have a cup of coffee with, that clearly respect, admire and love women, and take a measured and conservative approach to the chase. And they are still successful with their patience.